Meet Derrick Williams

[sdballer]

Jared Dudley, Earl Clark and Draymond Green, Matt Barnes, Gallenari, Danny Granger , Caron Butler, Tayshanue Prince, Deng are all SF's who are considered solid-good defenders not one of them has the first step or explosion of Derrick and none are reall all that mobile and he's similar size/bigger than all of them. Also which one of those guys could he not defend?

Current starting SF's he could defend in terms of foot speed: Korver, Jeff Green, Wilson Chandler/Gallo, Deng, Dudley, Aminu (not a threat really), Earl Clark, Ariza, Paul Pierce, Josh Smith, Caron Butler, Marion, Tobias Harris and even the guys who has footspeed most are not good ballhandlers anyway such as Corey Brewer, Gerald Green and literally very few of the current SF's can overpower him like either

He's obviously not going to be able to defend the likes of KD,Durrant, Melo straight up but if they are on no one can, I have a hard time finding that many players his size/athletic ability would not allow him to defend and those guys he can't no one else can, I think people are thinking of players like Lebron, George, Melo , Gay (been terrible) and automatically assume the SF position is stack with elite ball handlers/athletes when really there's a lot of slow footed vets and guys with little to no handle.

Foot speed is great if they are racing. Defense is about mobility, lateral quickness, positioning. To date, he hasn't demonstrated the ability to use these skills to defend SF. Not really sure what you are arguing as it's not like he hasn't tried playing SF at times over the last 2+ seasons.

 

[KingMilz]

Foot speed is great if they are racing. Defense is about mobility, lateral quickness, positioning. To date, he hasn't demonstrated the ability to use these skills to defend SF. Not really sure what you are arguing as it's not like he hasn't tried playing SF at times over the last 2+ seasons.

He played PF most last year when Kevin Love was out and is playing 14mins a game this year that's hardly enough to disprove he can/can't play SF, I'm showing most the SF's don't really have that much mobility or lateral quickness in general other than the top tier ones.

People are badly exaggerating how he's going to get killed guarding other SF's the positon is not stacked like PG or PF with elite offensive weapons after the frist 4-5 there is a insane drop off. Jared Dudley has been regarded as solid defender since his Suns days and he's smaller, weighs less and does not have the kind of mobility Derrick does.

 

[sdballer]

He played PF most last year when Kevin Love was out and is playing 14mins a game this year that's hardly enough to disprove he can/can't play SF, I'm showing most the SF's don't really have that much mobility or lateral quickness in general other than the top tier ones.

I know but he still tried to play SF at times. It didn't work and he lost minutes. The fact that he can keep up with some of the lower tier SF and maybe some of the slightly better ones isn't really a positive. It just means maybe sometimes he won't hurt you too bad if he's guarding slower, less offensively oriented guys. That's fine as a sub but not really a good prospect SF. Especially one a team that has poor backcourt and interior defenders.

Not saying he can't improve but we can't pretend its a positive.

 

[KingMilz]

I know but he still tried to play SF at times. It didn't work and he lost minutes. The fact that he can keep up with some of the lower tier SF and maybe some of the slightly better ones isn't really a positive. It just means maybe sometimes he won't hurt you too bad if he's guarding slower, less offensively oriented guys. That's fine as a sub but not really a good prospect SF. Especially one a team that has poor backcourt and interior defenders.

Not saying he can't improve but we can't pretend its a positive.

We can when we have been watching John Salmons playing there for way to long like I said the only SF's he's going to have issues with are above average- elite one's and pretty much every team has trouble with those players as long as he can hold his own against middle/lower tier SF's that's fine with me plus unlike LRAMM and Salmons he can actually exhaust them as well on the other end by posting up using his big body for a SF to be physical and attacking the rim which he is more than capable of doing.

 

[sdballer]

We can when we have been watching John Salmons playing there for way to long like I said the only SF's he's going to have issues with are above average- elite one's and pretty much every team has trouble with those players as long as he can hold his own against middle/lower tier SF's that's fine with me plus unlike LRAMM and Salmons he can actually exhaust them as well on the other end by posting up using his big body for a SF to be physical and attacking the rim which he is more than capable of doing.

I guess we'll see since he hasn't consistently shown the skills you mention in the last couple seasons.

 

[Bricklayer]

Jared Dudley, Earl Clark and Draymond Green, Matt Barnes, Gallenari, Danny Granger , Caron Butler, Tayshanue Prince, Deng are all SF's who are considered solid-good defenders not one of them has the first step or explosion of Derrick and none are reall all that mobile and he's similar size/bigger than all of them. Also which one of those guys could he not defend?

Current starting SF's he could defend in terms of foot speed: Korver, Jeff Green, Wilson Chandler/Gallo, Deng, Dudley, Aminu (not a threat really), Earl Clark, Ariza, Paul Pierce, Josh Smith, Caron Butler, Marion, Tobias Harris and even the guys who has footspeed most are not good ballhandlers anyway such as Corey Brewer, Gerald Green and literally very few of the current SF's can overpower him like either

He's obviously not going to be able to defend the likes of KD,Durrant, Melo straight up but if they are on no one can, I have a hard time finding that many players his size/athletic ability would not allow him to defend and those guys he can't no one else can, I think people are thinking of players like Lebron, George, Melo , Gay (been terrible) and automatically assume the SF position is stack with elite ball handlers/athletes when really there's a lot of slow footed vets and guys with little to no handle.

Guys 1 on 1 most likely can't defend @ SF
Lebron, Gay, Melo, George, Batum, Hayward, Turner

You speak about this as if its all theory when in fact they've been trying to make him into a SF in Minny for 2+ seasons, and his defense there has been putrid.

I'm not 100% convinced its unsalvageable, but I know a lot of people who've watched him every game for the last 2 years who do. Given our ridiculously impotent starters, if he can provide even 15ppg in support of Cuz, I'd settle for just don't get destroyed on the other end.

 

[swisshh]

He's pretty much here to see if he can be anything, and if not then he's still got value to some team looking for a stretch four.

 

[KingMilz]

You speak about this as if its all theory when in fact they've been trying to make him into a SF in Minny for 2+ seasons, and his defense there has been putrid.

.

How were they developing him for 2+ years @SF when 90% of him playing has been @PF and the year the moved him to SF he played less than 15mpg......I don't understand

 

[KingsCitizen]

Williams can contribute to the offensive end in a lot of ways that Luc can only dream of doing.
Luc could never help open up the lane for Cousins, but Williams should be able even if he's shooting 30%ish.
He has a better mid range than Luc and should be an alley oops waiting to happen for Vasquez.

Not saying that Luc never helped this step move forward. But Luc is a TWolve now and Williams is a King now.
I'm just looking at the cup as half-full in this trade and I think Williams certainly can contribute on a lot of facet in this team.

The way the team is set-up now, Vazquez needs dunkers and spot up shooters not ball-handlers.
We have 3 guys that will hold on to ball and do a lot of ball-handling throughout the game, that's Vazquez, IT, and DMC.
So I don't think William's supposed limited ball-handling skill when playing as SF will really matter considering how this team play.
All he need to do is run to right corner and spot from there. Or cut to the hoop for an oop.

As for defense, well Williams is clearly not a good 1-on-1 defender.
But I have confidence in Malone's approach on defense as a team.
Last season, the Warriors never had a starter who was a legit defender but he was able to help them play good to above average team defense.

So I would hope for the best for this trade.

 

[KingsCitizen]

How were they developing him for 2+ years @SF when 90% of him playing has been @PF and the year the moved him to SF he played less than 15mpg......I don't understand

In his first season, Williams have a body more suitable as a PF. But they already got Kevin Love there. So they put him most of the time at SF. But I don't think rookies could change their game that easily. See Bennett, Gerald Wallace, and our own TRob experiment at SF
BTW, they also have Beasley that season.

The next year, they signed Kirilenko for big money for the SF spot and Williams have to spend a lot of time at PF due to Love's injury.
And this season, Williams have trimmed down looks lighter and now they say he don't fit in their team.

Well what I see here is an insufficient amount of playing team to really judge someone's game.
Hope he gets enough playtime to really showcase himself as lottery pick.

 

[Cold]

Jared Dudley, Earl Clark and Draymond Green, Matt Barnes, Gallenari, Danny Granger , Caron Butler, Tayshanue Prince, Deng are all SF's who are considered solid-good defenders not one of them has the first step or explosion of Derrick and none are reall all that mobile and he's similar size/bigger than all of them. Also which one of those guys could he not defend?

Current starting SF's he could defend in terms of foot speed: Korver, Jeff Green, Wilson Chandler/Gallo, Deng, Dudley, Aminu (not a threat really), Earl Clark, Ariza, Paul Pierce, Josh Smith, Caron Butler, Marion, Tobias Harris and even the guys who has footspeed most are not good ballhandlers anyway such as Corey Brewer, Gerald Green and literally very few of the current SF's can overpower him like either

He's obviously not going to be able to defend the likes of KD,Durrant, Melo straight up but if they are on no one can, I have a hard time finding that many players his size/athletic ability would not allow him to defend and those guys he can't no one else can, I think people are thinking of players like Lebron, George, Melo , Gay (been terrible) and automatically assume the SF position is stack with elite ball handlers/athletes when really there's a lot of slow footed vets and guys with little to no handle.

Guys 1 on 1 most likely can't defend @ SF
Lebron, Gay, Melo, George, Batum, Hayward, Turner

Man.just.stop.

Mentioning granger in the same sentence as deng makes it impossible to take the rest of ur comment(s) serious.

 

[KingMilz]

Man.just.stop.

Mentioning granger in the same sentence as deng makes it impossible to take the rest of ur comment(s) serious.

Prior to his injury Granger was a decent defender for someone who was dropping 20+ a game what are you talking about? Right now obviously he's not my but that was not my point the point was to show you don't have to have insane mobility like some are suggesting to be a solid SF.

 

[Kingsfan23]

nothing to do with the above conversation, but just a note on Granger since he has been brought up... There were a lot of people that wanted to trade for him over the last year, I couldn't believe that a guy out for an extended period of time with an injury would be nearly as sought out as he appeared to be

 

[Cold]

Dude granger only played respectable defense his first couple years in the league then did a 180 and tuned in almost harden level atrocious d night in night out.

I remember when pacers and warriors were discussing granger for ellis swap and warriors fans were cringing at granger's d. Its bad when monta fans think ur d is bad.

 

[TheBadGuy]

Under Malone, Williams' defense might improve.

 

[jalfa]

nothing to do with the above conversation, but just a note on Granger since he has been brought up... There were a lot of people that wanted to trade for him over the last year, I couldn't believe that a guy out for an extended period of time with an injury would be nearly as sought out as he appeared to be

most of those scenarios had the Kings sending Thompson and Thornton, two guys with contracts going beyond this year. Granger is an expiring. the thinking was either Granger comes back and performs at some reasonable facsimile of his former self and maybe the Kings resign him, or he doesn't and at least the team sheds some salary going into next offseason. those moves were never really all that realistic, considering Indy's payroll situation, but nobody was willing to give up much value for Granger, IIRC.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Williams is 100% more valuable as a small forward. It's not even close. That is absolutely where we should force him to play early on, and I am happy that PDA and Malone are going in that direction.

I did a little more digging into lineup combinations, and contrary to popular belief it doesn't appear that Minny actually tried him at SF consistently. And I don't doubt that was with good reason. Maybe he was terrible there in practice, I don't know - all I'm saying is that he has very limited in-game minutes at SF, and even less since he lost some weight. Heres the data:

*Lineups are in order of minutes played for the season.

2011-2012 - 4 of the top 5 lineups Williams was a part of had him at the 4. And that one lineup where he played SF is very debatable. It was with Tolliver and Randolph so it really depends on what you call those guys.

2012-2013 - 5 out of the top 5 lineup combinations Williams was in had him playing PF. Not even close.

2013-2014 - no real data yet.

I'm excited to see what he can do there, because I have no idea what to expect.

 

[KingMilz]

One thing that's impressed me about D-Will straight away is that beard looks nice, it's not to much but really manly at the same time much respect for that. It's not on the level of Johnny Hendrix (MMA fighter) but it's up there but.

 

[dude12]

Malone may be able to help his defense at SF. He's certainly going to get the opportunity. I keep thinking though that he's an offensive oriented guy. He's coming here to help with the scoring. I just think that his athleticism may be taken advantage of from the 4 than the 3. It seems that if he is in the lineup with Outlaw or PPat, those 3 are interchangeable defensively depending on matchups.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Williams is 100% more valuable as a small forward. It's not even close. That is absolutely where we should force him to play early on, and I am happy that PDA and Malone are going in that direction.

I did a little more digging into lineup combinations, and contrary to popular belief it doesn't appear that Minny actually tried him at SF consistently. And I don't doubt that was with good reason. Maybe he was terrible there in practice, I don't know - all I'm saying is that he has very limited in-game minutes at SF, and even less since he lost some weight. Heres the data:

*Lineups are in order of minutes played for the season.

2011-2012 - 4 of the top 5 lineups Williams was a part of had him at the 4. And that one lineup where he played SF is very debatable. It was with Tolliver and Randolph so it really depends on what you call those guys.

2012-2013 - 5 out of the top 5 lineup combinations Williams was in had him playing PF. Not even close.

2013-2014 - no real data yet.

I'm excited to see what he can do there, because I have no idea what to expect.

Thanks for actually doing the research on this. It's easy to say, "Well they already had Love at PF, so of course they were trying him at SF!" But maybe, for the reasons you and KingsCitizen above point out, it turns out they really weren't. Now, maybe they were trying him at SF in practice and he was so bad they didn't bother doing so in games, but we'll never know...

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Prior to his injury Granger was a decent defender for someone who was dropping 20+ a game what are you talking about? Right now obviously he's not my but that was not my point the point was to show you don't have to have insane mobility like some are suggesting to be a solid SF.

Off topic, but I find it 'interesting' that Williams is a height, size, and length, that is nearly identical to Granger. If we can develop Derrick into a more mobile pre injury Granger type of player, with improved defense,...it will get fun

 

[km23]

I really liked him in college.. He was a stud. In the interview when he first arrived at the arena he was even saying how not good of a fit he was in Minnesota, so I'm just hoping for a fresh start cuz this kid is a huge talent

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Off topic, but I find it 'interesting' that Williams is a height, size, and length, that is nearly identical to Granger. If we can develop Derrick into a more mobile pre injury Granger type of player, with improved defense,...it will get fun

Granger was an All-Star at one point, definitely woudn't mind him turning out to be like Granger.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Granger was an All-Star at one point, definitely woudn't mind him turning out to be like Granger.

Probably a best case scenario. Lets hope for the best and enjoy the show

I really liked him in college.. He was a stud. In the interview when he first arrived at the arena he was even saying how not good of a fit he was in Minnesota, so I'm just hoping for a fresh start cuz this kid is a huge talent

I didn't get to see the interview and don't see it now. Do you have a link?

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Thanks for actually doing the research on this. It's easy to say, "Well they already had Love at PF, so of course they were trying him at SF!" But maybe, for the reasons you and KingsCitizen above point out, it turns out they really weren't. Now, maybe they were trying him at SF in practice and he was so bad they didn't bother doing so in games, but we'll never know...

Actually, we will know. Starting as soon as this Friday

 

[Bricklayer]

Guys, whatever else he may be, he't not Granger.

Granger was a much quicker player, and a much more skilled player. He could actually play some SG when he was young.

Williams has more of a a PF skillset, with the possibility, and right now its just a possibility, of a jumper. But he's no swingman.

Here's a interesting musing for you: Carmelo Anthony. 6'8" 230lbs. Post up power SF/PF who likes to chuck jumpers too, doesn't pass, and has shaky D. Williams is a better athlete, but when you look around the league, maybe that would be how you model him at SF. Poor man's Melo.

 

[ESP47]

Jared Dudley, Earl Clark and Draymond Green, Matt Barnes, Gallenari, Danny Granger , Caron Butler, Tayshanue Prince, Deng are all SF's who are considered solid-good defenders not one of them has the first step or explosion of Derrick and none are reall all that mobile and he's similar size/bigger than all of them. Also which one of those guys could he not defend?

Current starting SF's he could defend in terms of foot speed: Korver, Jeff Green, Wilson Chandler/Gallo, Deng, Dudley, Aminu (not a threat really), Earl Clark, Ariza, Paul Pierce, Josh Smith, Caron Butler, Marion, Tobias Harris and even the guys who has footspeed most are not good ballhandlers anyway such as Corey Brewer, Gerald Green and literally very few of the current SF's can overpower him like either

He's obviously not going to be able to defend the likes of KD,Durrant, Melo straight up but if they are on no one can, I have a hard time finding that many players his size/athletic ability would not allow him to defend and those guys he can't no one else can, I think people are thinking of players like Lebron, George, Melo , Gay (been terrible) and automatically assume the SF position is stack with elite ball handlers/athletes when really there's a lot of slow footed vets and guys with little to no handle.

Guys 1 on 1 most likely can't defend @ SF
Lebron, Gay, Melo, George, Batum, Hayward, Turner

According to TWolves fans, he can't really guard anybody. Let alone guard everyone other than 6 or 7 guys.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

One aspect that I like right out of the gate, is we're bringing in a potential talent to try at the 3, who we know is a forward. Not someone who used to be a shooting gaurd, or can sometimes play the 2. Just a straight up forward who has the physical frame to play forward. We don't always have to refer to a player as a "small forward" or a "power forward". It is possible to just be versatile "forward".

I'm tired of the..lets try "sliding" this shooting guard to the 3 nonsense. Lets get forwards and then let them play forward positions

 

[swisshh]

At this point, he's more akin to Marvin Williams. What he'll have troubles with here is his tendecy to watch. He watches his shot, he watches the play, and he'll not react quickly. Malone will get on him about that. Defense requires awareness. Dudley is no athlete, but he's aware and understands the game. That's what Williams is lacking right now.

 

[rainmaker]

Thanks for actually doing the research on this. It's easy to say, "Well they already had Love at PF, so of course they were trying him at SF!" But maybe, for the reasons you and KingsCitizen above point out, it turns out they really weren't. Now, maybe they were trying him at SF in practice and he was so bad they didn't bother doing so in games, but we'll never know...

Last year, while listed as a PF, he largely played SF when AK was healthy and AK would often guard the opposing 4 due to his length and superior defense. When AK was injured, Williams played more at the 4.