Measurements

[Bricklayer]

He's got the same standing reach ash Shaq, I don't think height/reach is an issue for Thabeet. However, other things are.

Its not going to show up int he numbers.

As an aside, sometimes those old numbers seem a bit shaky to me. Some of them absolutely jive with what we know, or think we know. Sheed measured 6'9.75" without shoes, and has always been listed at 6'11". that would be about right +1.25". Kurt Thomas was 6'7.75" without shoes, and has always been listed at 6'9". Again +1.25". Tag was 7'0" without shoes, and was always listed 7'2" -- bit of a stretch there, but 2". So anyway, things that look right. But then you see Shaq, and it claims he was listed 7'1"...WITHOUT shoes. And yet for his entire career he was always listed at 7'1" with shoes, and certianly did not look to be nearly 7'3" in shoes. So is that a mistake?

 

[Vlade4GM]

I basicly makes him taller than 90% of the PF's in the league. Howard was only 6'9" when he came into the league. Griffin is 6'8.5" . His reach is a little short, but then he almost has a 40" vertical. At this point, were just nit picking..

8'9 is definitely concerning for a big man, Howard's height is obviously made up with athleticism AND a 9'3.5 standing reach. I'm not saying it's going to be the end of him or anything like that, but it's not something you can just write off, and it can't just be magically made up for with a good max vert.

 

[Bricklayer]

I basicly makes him taller than 90% of the PF's in the league. Howard was only 6'9" when he came into the league. Griffin is 6'8.5" . His reach is a little short, but then he almost has a 40" vertical. At this point, were just nit picking..

Not sure where you get that -- it makes him average or a smidge short of average for a PF. Its good enough that I would largely wipe that concern off the books myself (not about reach, but about height), but it certainly is not an exceptional number there. If you want to call Wright the starting PF in Golden State, it actually makes Griffin the shortest starter at that position on the West Coast (Alrdrige, Thompson, Wright, Camby/Zbo (maybe as tall as Zbo), Pau). Taller than Boozer...not sure about Scola. Shorter than either Dirk or Duncan. He'd be taller than the guys in Memphis and OKC, but that's exactly why those teams want him -- they do not have any true PFs. Etc. Just about average.

 

[sactownfan]

Tyler Hansbrough Tyler Hansbrough Tyler Hansbrough!!! WOW I'd think this makes him a lotto pick yeah??? Critics were way down on his height and size... but hes sorta on par with Griffen minus a lil muscle... Hansbrough has a pretty balanced offensive game and will be a great defensive presence as the guy that gets under peoples skin with being physical. I like this guy hes way underrated! especially with the talent thats being put ahead of him.

 

[hrdboild]

Tyler Hansbrough Tyler Hansbrough Tyler Hansbrough!!! WOW I'd think this makes him a lotto pick yeah??? Critics were way down on his height and size... but hes sorta on par with Griffen minus a lil muscle... Hansbrough has a pretty balanced offensive game and will be a great defensive presence as the guy that gets under peoples skin with being physical. I like this guy hes way underrated! especially with the talent thats being put ahead of him.

Yeah but they all watched North Carolina play Oklahoma in the tournament too. Regardless of how tall Hansbrough is, he was still completely ineffective against Griffin. This probably helps his stock some, but I don't think it's enough to move him up to the lottery. He still projects as a hustle guy off the bench. Teams usually want "upside" with their lottery picks.

 

[fnordius]

thats day 1 measurements right? griffin 6"8 with out shoes? too small or just right?

6'8.25" is just about exactly average for a guy the NBA will say is 6'10". Here's how to find your NBA height.

1. Determine your actual height (barefoot).
2. Put on platform shoes. Average height for combine day shoes is about1.3", but 1.0" to 1.75" is normal.
3. Round up to the next inch.

Thus, if you're the average 5'10.5" American male, and put on 1.75" shoes, 5'10.5" + 1.75" makes you a combine day 6'0.25", and when the NBA lists your stats, they'll say you're 6'1"... 2.5 inches more than your real height. Griffin's 6'8.25" actual height lets him get to 6'10" NBA height in almost any shoe, and, in those platforms he was wearing, if he'd been .25" taller they'd be calling him 6'11".

 

[bajaden]

Not sure where you get that -- it makes him average or a smidge short of average for a PF. Its good enough that I would largely wipe that concern off the books (not about reach, but about height), but it certainly is not an exceptional number there. If you want to call Wright the starting PF in Golden State, it actually makes Griffin the shortest starter at that position on the West Coast (Alrdrige, thompson, Wright, Camby/Zbo (maybe as tall as Zbo), Pau). Taller than Boozer...not sure about Scola. Shorter than either Dirk or Duncan. He's be taller than the guys in Memphis and OKC, but that's exactly why those teams want him -- they do not have any true PFs. Etc. Just about average.

I will not do the list again, and I will not waste my time going back to look up the post I made on this subject. But I looked at every PF in the NBA and 90% of them were under 6'8" without shoes. You cherry picked some to the one's that wern't or who play center in the league. So I would contend the the height at the PF positon is exagerated and that he's at least average or slightly taller than average. If you don't believe me go look it up yourself.

Reach is only an issue to me when it comes to shot blocking, and I don't put as much emphasis on that as you do. To me shot blocking is the last line of defense, and not as important if you you have good team defense combined with some good man defense. So we'll see how good a man defender he is.

Reach has little to do with being a good rebounder. It certainly helps, but positioning and reading angles, along with hard work makes for being a good rebounder. How many times have you seen a seven footer standing under the basket waiting for the ball to come to him, only to have a 6'5" player jump in at the last moment and take the ball away.

Look, he's going to be a very good player in this league. Maybe even a star. At this point it doesn't matter to me because were not going to get him, so I'm tired of defending him. But I can remember some on this fourm that said he wasn't very athletic. I thought, what the hell are they watching? As for Wright at Golden State. I guarantee that in their first match up, Griffin will eat him for lunch.

 

[Bricklayer]

I "cherry picked" the starters across the West -- the Conference in which he will be playing.

 

[fnordius]

WRT the average height of an NBA PF, when barefoot, it's very easy to figure out what the median is.

This page lets you sort official, measured heights for PFs drafted in the first round from 1991 to 2008: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre...age=&year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=30&pos=4&sort=

If you go to the slight bother of figuring out where the middle of the (barefoot) list is, it's at 6'8.25", putting Griffin exactly at the median for an NBA PF.

 

[Bricklayer]

WRT the average height of an NBA PF, when barefoot, it's very easy to figure out what the median is.

This page lets you sort official, measured heights for PFs drafted in the first round from 1991 to 2008: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre...age=&year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=30&pos=4&sort=

If you go to the slight bother of figuring out where the middle of the (barefoot) list is, it's at 6'8.25", putting Griffin exactly at the median for an NBA PF.

There's actually an even easier, and coinsiderably intreresting way to do that. On that same page at the top right there is a link for "Average Measurements By Position". Here is why its interesting. When you first click that link it defaults to all years, and "Any" for draft position. "Any" includes everybody at the combine, drafted or undrafted.

Here's the "Any" results:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All&draft=0&sort=

And there, the average height is only 6'7.73" for a PF. But now, change the filter from just "Any"body who declared to "Drafted" (which is everybody drafted in Rnd 1 or 2) and you get:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All&draft=100&sort=

And the average height is now 6'8". Now change the filter to "Top 30" (i.e. first rounders):
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All&draft=30&sort=

And the height becomes 6'8.32". Now change the filter to "Top 15" (i.e. lottery picks):
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All&draft=15&sort=

And the height becomes 6'8.64".


In other words the better the prospect, the higher they are drafted, the taller and taller they are as a rule. That has limited application to the prospects of any single individual like Griffin, but it does jive closely with the general impression that big guys go early, and undersized guys slide toward the second round.

I can't speak to Bajaden's independent resarch on the topic except to say that thsoe numebrs make it extraordinarily unlikely that 90% of the NBA's power forwards are under 6'8.25" in socks.

 

[bajaden]

There's actually an even easier, and coinsiderably intreresting way to do that. On that same page at the top right there is a link for "Average Measurements By Position". Here is why its interesting. When you first click that link it defaults to all years, and "Any" for draft position. "Any" includes everybody at the combine, drafted or undrafted.

Here's the "Any" results:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All&draft=0&sort=

And there, the average height is only 6'7.73" for a PF. But now, change the filter from just "Any"body who declared to "Drafted" (which is everybody drafted in Rnd 1 or 2) and you get:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All&draft=100&sort=

And the average height is now 6'8". Now change the filter to "Top 30" (i.e. first rounders):
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All&draft=30&sort=

And the height becomes 6'8.32". Now change the filter to "Top 15" (i.e. lottery picks):
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All&draft=15&sort=

And the height becomes 6'8.64".


In other words the better the prospect, the higher they are drafted, the taller and taller they are as a rule. That has limited application to the prospects of any single individual like Griffin, but it does jive closely with the general impression that big guys go early, and undersized guys slide toward the second round.

I can't speak to Bajaden's independent resarch on the topic except to say that thsoe numebrs make it extraordinarily unlikely that 90% of the NBA's power forwards are under 6'8.25" in socks.

I was sitting here trying to figure out how to post all of the above and you did it for me. Thanks!

 

[bajaden]

Tyler Hansbrough Tyler Hansbrough Tyler Hansbrough!!! WOW I'd think this makes him a lotto pick yeah??? Critics were way down on his height and size... but hes sorta on par with Griffen minus a lil muscle... Hansbrough has a pretty balanced offensive game and will be a great defensive presence as the guy that gets under peoples skin with being physical. I like this guy hes way underrated! especially with the talent thats being put ahead of him.

The only thing on a par with Griffin is the height. Griffin can jump higher, run faster, and if you watched the lateral movement drills today at the combine, then you know why Hansbrough is probably a late first rounder. Griffin looked like a sleek smooth race horse, and Hansbrough looked like a plow horse. There's a place for him in the league because of his competivness. But the two just don't compare with one another.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

Interesting stats on Griffin. I think that the 8'9" reach is concerning. Typically, short PFs are able to make up for their lack of height with long arms (such is the case with guys like Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer). Griffin's standing reach puts him below guys like Michael Beasley, Ike Diogu, and even Donte Greene and Kevin Durant in that category. Well, here's hoping he can make up for it with his athleticism.

 

[BMiller52]

Anyone else notice that even though Blair measured out as a midget at PF, that he actually has a taller reach than Griffin? He has a 7-2 wingspan. For a 6'6'' guy that's pretty good.

Also James Johnson measuring out at 6'7'' and weighing 257 isn't really going to help him IMO. On the other hand, Ellington and Harden both measured out really well, they are legit for a 2 guard instead of maybe being forced into the combo guard role. Jonny Flynn isn't as short as he was billed, and he has a pretty good wingspan to make up for it at 6'4''.

 

[gunks]

I'm diggin Flynn even more after reading those measurements. If we dont get Rubio, he should be a decent consolation prize.

I would love if we could get Blair with a late pick. He doesnt seem like a Petrie pick, but he'd be a great guy to have come off the bench to bruise in the paint for 20-24 minutes a game. I think he's gone by 23 though, I dunno if he's worth trading up for either.

 

[bajaden]

I'm diggin Flynn even more after reading those measurements. If we dont get Rubio, he should be a decent consolation prize.

I would love if we could get Blair with a late pick. He doesnt seem like a Petrie pick, but he'd be a great guy to have come off the bench to bruise in the paint for 20-24 minutes a game. I think he's gone by 23 though, I dunno if he's worth trading up for either.

I watched as much of the vertical jump measurement as possible and they didn't give the results. But Flynn has some serious hops. Just judging from others that jumped that were much taller than him, I would say he's got to have a vertical of at least 37 or 38 inches. They said he can dunk a basketball from a standing position under the basket. With his height coming in where it did I suspect he's going to start moving up the draft board.

 

[Hallama]

Wow, BJ Mullens is a legit unshoe'd 7 footer.

Gotta help his stock a bit. Wouldn't be surprised if he is picked top 10. Kings will probably take a decent look at him too.

*edit* oops, he's actually a quarter inch short in socks. Nice 9'3" vertical reach though. He'll be listed at 7'1" in the NBA.

 

[bajaden]

Wow, BJ Mullens is a legit unshoe'd 7 footer.

Gotta help his stalk a bit. Wouldn't be surprised if he is picked top 10. Kings will probably take a decent look at him too.

*edit* oops, he's actually a quarter inch short in socks. Nice 9'3" vertical reach though. He'll be listed at 7'1" in the NBA.

He's a talented kid. Thats not the problem with him. He just doesn't seem to have any fire in his belly. I'm not sure he even likes playing basketball. If you watched Griffin today at the combine, he was all business. You could see it on his face and his body language. They said that he won every wind sprint he ran. You can see his fire and determination. I'm not saying thats all you need to be a great player. But if you've got the talent and the desire your chances improve dramaticly.

When I watched Mullens, he looked like he would have rather been somewhere else. I'm not saying I wouldn't gamble on him at 23, but I think it would be a gamble.

 

[Hallama]

He's a talented kid. Thats not the problem with him. He just doesn't seem to have any fire in his belly. I'm not sure he even likes playing basketball. If you watched Griffin today at the combine, he was all business. You could see it on his face and his body language. They said that he won every wind sprint he ran. You can see his fire and determination. I'm not saying thats all you need to be a great player. But if you've got the talent and the desire your chances improve dramaticly.

When I watched Mullens, he looked like he would have rather been somewhere else. I'm not saying I wouldn't gamble on him at 23, but I think it would be a gamble.

He's definitely the mystery man of this draft. He has the Gerald Wallace syndrome of being a great high school player but struggled a bit as a freshman. I could easily picture Mullens having a monster sophomore season if he stayed in school and being a top 5 pick next year. Risky pick, but one that may pay off HUGE.

 

[bajaden]

He's definitely the mystery man of this draft. He has the Gerald Wallace syndrome of being a great high school player but struggled a bit as a freshman. I could easily picture Mullens having a monster sophomore season if he stayed in school and being a top 5 pick next year. Risky pick, but one that may pay off HUGE.

Well at least Wallace was played out of position in college at the PF position. Mullens doesn't have that excuse. I will say this. I was surprised at his lack of playing time early in the season, considering all the fanfare about him. Not sure what the reason was, but he did play better toward the end of the year. He's certainly young enough to turn things around.

 

[hammystyle]

Well at least Wallace was played out of position in college at the PF position. Mullens doesn't have that excuse. I will say this. I was surprised at his lack of playing time early in the season, considering all the fanfare about him. Not sure what the reason was, but he did play better toward the end of the year. He's certainly young enough to turn things around.

On a per-minute basis, Mullens wasn't that bad. A little better than Deandre Jordan last year in points, blocks and the percentages, but 1.4 rpg less in about the same minutes. Jordan had a pretty decent rookie year, all things considered.

I can't think of a really good big guy that struggled that much his Freshman year who went on to be really good, though I wonder how straight out of college guys like Perkins and Bynum would have fared their first year in college.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Well at least Wallace was played out of position in college at the PF position. Mullens doesn't have that excuse. I will say this. I was surprised at his lack of playing time early in the season, considering all the fanfare about him. Not sure what the reason was, but he did play better toward the end of the year. He's certainly young enough to turn things around.

I would think the reason would be a desperate attempt at trying to hurt his draft stock so he'd stay on another year.

 

[bajaden]

On a per-minute basis, Mullens wasn't that bad. A little better than Deandre Jordan last year in points, blocks and the percentages, but 1.4 rpg less in about the same minutes. Jordan had a pretty decent rookie year, all things considered.

I can't think of a really good big guy that struggled that much his Freshman year who went on to be really good, though I wonder how straight out of college guys like Perkins and Bynum would have fared their first year in college.

I don't think anyone would argue against his staying another year in college. With improvement he might have been a top five pick next year. From what I read though, his family is very poor and he planned to do a one and done from the beginning. Vlade could be right about them not playing him that much, to discourage him from jumping to the NBA.