Marc Stein: Vlade in charge

[Kingster]

No thanks. I'm happy on PDA's flight. He has "experience" as the nerdy analytics guy, after all. **** the guy who talks about actual winning basketball, let's stick with the guy who can't be trusted and makes b***h move after b***h move. Don't think your bandwagon is going to be full.

But PDA does subscribe to SCORE, POINTS, YAY, FANS ARE STUPID, MORE POINTS, THEY HAPPY, so I absolutely see why you're enamoured with it.

So now you're telling me you want to take that flight to Manila with a guy with 20 hours co-pilot experience instead of the guy who has PROVEN that he will crash the plane. No argument here on that. If I was forced at gunpoint to get on that plane, yes, I'd take the chance with the amateur!!!

 

[Kingster]

Boarding, boarding. This is a training exercise. We are boarding for Manila shortly. Please feel free to ride another plane with a pilot who has 1,000 hours of pilot experience and who has not crashed the plane. But if you get a kick out of risk taking, then pay up for the flight with the rookie captain. The longest flight he's had is the puddle jumper from Sacto to SF.

 

[funkykingston]

I'd like to ask Vlade how the inside-outside paradigm has been affected by the domination of the 3 point shot in today's game. The game isn't the same game as when he played. How then does that affect his thinking? Is Vlade seeing things in the rear view mirror, or is his paradigm more subtle than that?

Interesting thing about the Kings teams Vlade was on. His first two seasons with the Kings Sacramento shot more three pointers than any other team. But they were also near the bottom (24th and 28th) in 3P% those two years. And other than in 2002 they were in the top 10 (top 7 actually) every year for 3Pt makes while in 2002 they were 12th. And every year Vlade was on the Kings they improved their rank in terms of 3 PT% to where in 2003 they were 4th in the league and in 2004 they were 1st.

I'm pretty sure Vlade very much values outside shooting and understands how it helps a team.

Did you notice the beginning of the Vlade quote: "that starts with defense and rebounding"? So if you want to channel Divac at least get the gist of the question. Now you can tell me how you *think* Divac might answer that question.

I'm troubled by this philosophizing by Vlade. Why? Because it implies that he in fact is our new GM. He's starting to tell us his "GM philosophy". That is very troubling indeed. Does it prove that he's going to be our new GM? No. But if quacks like a duck and walks like a duck...The last thing I want to do is take a flight on a 747 to Manila piloted by a guy with 20 hours of copilot experience.

I can understand the hesitation but the reality is that being a pilot requires hundreds of hours of very specific training. You need to fully understand every control, every guideline and how to deal with all the situations that arise. Experience is a must. And experienced pilots can see when a pilot in training is ready to fly. But being a GM doesn't work that way. There are no minimum hours of training, or benchmarks that say when you're ready to be the guy. You can either do the job or you can't. Some guys played the game. Some guys didn't. Some guys have lots of degrees and some guys don't. Some guys come up as scouts and some guys don't. Gregg Popovich went from an assistant coach under Larry Brown and Don Nelson to becoming GM of the Spurs and has been amazingly successful. I don't think Vlade's pathway is all that different. In fact, adding in his international experience and Vlade is a lot better prepared than most guys that get their first GM gig. But again, all that matters is whether he can do the job.

Who thought Phil Jackson would have such a horrible initial stint as a GM? Who thought Danny Ferry would be the guy to make the Hawks an Eastern Conference powerhouse? I'm not worried about Vlade's experience. Because it doesn't matter. The results will speak for themselves and quickly.

I'm choosing to be optimistic until then.

 

[Padrino]

Don't be confused. Just read the post and look at the questions I'm asking Vlade Divac. It's pretty simple. Not confusing. How about this to encapsulate it all: Vlade, please give me a detailed answer how the 3 point shot has affected the NBA game today as opposed to your day, and please then tell us all how the impact of the 3 point shot affects your ideas on analysis personnel for the draft, FA, and trades?

i remain confused by your line of questioning. are you unaware of the subject position that vlade divac occupies? he played with peja effing stojakovic. he was a passing center who made a living by setting up his teammates on the perimeter. he was coached by rick adelman, and he was mentored by pete carril. do you seriously imagine that he doesn't understand the importance of the three-point shot, and that demarcus cousins' low-post presence opens the game up considerably for any shooters the kings may have or may acquire? it hardly strikes me as a big leap of faith to assume that vlade divac can absorb these fairly simple basketball concepts...

let me put it this way: the kings of the early-00's were much closer in philosophy to contemporary nba paradigms than the kings current roster has proven to be. though i remain skeptical of vlade divac's front office acumen (negotiating contracts, managing a salary cap, building a complete roster), i remain wholly unconcerned about his evaluative skills as a basketball mind. christ, the guy was a perfect model of "high basketball IQ" throughout his playing career. aren't you one of many posters around these parts who has oft-complained about a lack of basketball IQ on this team? with an owner who knows little about the game and a gm who cut his teeth as a lawyer, i don't mind vlade divac infusing kings' management with a bit of legendary basketball smarts...

 

[Gilles]

About Vlade and Karl

The two men also see the game through a similar prism, envisioning an aggressive defense that creates transition baskets and half-court sets that emphasize passing, spacing and movement and engages all five players while taking advantage of the talents of All-Star center DeMarcus Cousins and small forward Rudy Gay.

You don't need 3s just for the sake of shooting most jumpers you can. Outside shooting provides spacing, that you need to attack the basket most effectively. And looks like Vlade gets it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Don't be confused. Just read the post and look at the questions I'm asking Vlade Divac. It's pretty simple. Not confusing. How about this to encapsulate it all: Vlade, please give me a detailed answer how the 3 point shot has affected the NBA game today as opposed to your day, and please then tell us all how the impact of the 3 point shot affects your ideas on analysis personnel for the draft, FA, and trades?

Um, you do remember who his protege was right?

 

[VF21]

So you're telling me his vision of the team is the same vision as Malone vision was and fit his coaching style.

Don't tell anybody.

 

[IfAt1st]

What realistic alternative to Vlade is there for the Kings?

Keeping PDA as a decision-maker?
A man who has either:
* openly mocked the Kings fanbase by saying "We know Kings fans want an up-tempo, fun-to-watch team (over slow, winning basketball)."
or
* is catastrophically out of touch with what the fanbase wants, AND what this team can realistically accomplish.

Either way, any man who has publicly stated that (as well as "it doesn't matter if the Kings were 16 and 9, I needed Malone gone because he didn't play the way we wanted him to play") CAN NOT be in charge of decisions anymore.

 

[VF21]

Um, you do remember who his protege was right?

That Predrag kid? Come on. We all know drafting him was a huge mistake. You never heard his name after draft day.

 

[funkykingston]

I strongly believe the "search" has already been concluded. I think they're only waiting on the right time to announce. For example, if the person is tied to a team heading to the playoffs, they won't be able to bring him on board until his current duties are completed.

Ideally you want someone who has lots of contacts across the league, knows how to make trades and build a team and who most of all has an eye for talent in the draft. I think they could bring Petrie back as a consultant and call it a day.

 

[Chubbs]

I can't disagree with what Vlade has said. First guy to make sense in awhile.

Since Malone left.

But what happened to "positionless basketball NBA 3.0?" Did we just change the name or are we no longer searching for the next Derrick Williams?

One can only hope we never hear any part of the quoted again. Yet PDA and Vivek remain. Plus a new guy? Maybe, or has the plan changed again?

Why is our already muddled FO continuing to grow? I want to be optimistic, but so much weirdness remains.

 

[swisshh]

I'd love to get Draymond.

A bit undersized, but a nasty defender who can hit the 3.

I imagine he's going to have a lot of teams throwing a lot of money at him this off-season.

Draymond is the guy that answers a lot of questions and the needs Karl put forward, but there will be a competitive market for him. Detroit will go after him and Golden State will want him back.

 

[gunks]

I can't disagree with what Vlade has said. First guy to make sense in awhile.

Since Malone left.

But what happened to "positionless basketball NBA 3.0?" Did we just change the name or are we no longer searching for the next Derrick Williams?

One can only hope we never hear any part of the quoted again. Yet PDA and Vivek remain. Plus a new guy? Maybe, or has the plan changed again?

Why is our already muddled FO continuing to grow? I want to be optimistic, but so much weirdness remains.

Vlade has way more power than Malone ever had, PDA is marginalized, and Mully is gone... When you take into account that Vivek is as impatient as a child, one can be optimistic that perhaps we're leaving all that "jazz band" crap behind. A lot depends on Karl though.

I agree that there is still weirdness in the FO, as well as a lot of potential for factions ... buuuuut, if Vlade and Karl can get on the same page, I think we're good shape.

 

[rhythmless]

Last year, we had Vivek, PDA, and Mullins calling the basketball shots. Now it looks like Vlade, Karl, and less Vivek calling the shots.

I take that all day. The only way it can get better is if Vivek goes to 0 influence, but we all know that's not gonna happen.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Interesting thing about the Kings teams Vlade was on. His first two seasons with the Kings Sacramento shot more three pointers than any other team. But they were also near the bottom (24th and 28th) in 3P% those two years. And other than in 2002 they were in the top 10 (top 7 actually) every year for 3Pt makes while in 2002 they were 12th. And every year Vlade was on the Kings they improved their rank in terms of 3 PT% to where in 2003 they were 4th in the league and in 2004 they were 1st.

I'm pretty sure Vlade very much values outside shooting and understands how it helps a team.

I know this is completely beside your point, but the Kings' woeful 3PT% in Vlade's first two years can largely be traced to one factor: White Chocolate. He started to get marginalized in terms of 3PT opportunities in his third year as Peja and Doug emerged as high percentage threats and the following summer he was shipped off for the much better shooting Bibby.

But yes, I'd bet dollars to donuts that Divac understands the relative value of kicking it out to an open Peja/Christie as opposed to a patented J-Will pull-up three from 30 feet.

 

[funkykingston]

I know this is completely beside your point, but the Kings' woeful 3PT% in Vlade's first two years can largely be traced to one factor: White Chocolate. He started to get marginalized in terms of 3PT opportunities in his third year as Peja and Doug emerged as high percentage threats and the following summer he was shipped off for the much better shooting Bibby.

But yes, I'd bet dollars to donuts that Divac understands the relative value of kicking it out to an open Peja/Christie as opposed to a patented J-Will pull-up three from 30 feet.

Yeah, JWill shot a sub .30 percentage AND he took nearly a third of the team's threes but Peja only shot 32% his first year and JB had a poor percentage as well and the next year Nick Anderson wasn't exactly lighting it up and Tony Delk and the chipmunk (AKA Darrick Martin) were helping keep that percentage down. But yeah, I very much doubt that it was lost on Vlade that swapping out JWill for Bibby and Corliss for Christie that allowed his Kings to take the next step as (1) it wasn't just launching threes but MAKING them that mattered and (2) having a defensive captain changed the complexion of the team.

Willie Cauley-Stein and some free agent shooters would help this team be better next year even if no other moves are made.

 

[Bricklayer]

One other minor thing this may change: the apparent rift with CWebb since Vivek took over.

Consider, Chris Mullin was a Nellieboy when Webb was drafted by Golden State. Not only on the team, but one of Nellie's core guys/biggest backers. Webb then clashed badly with Nellie, forced his way out of town, and effectively ended their window and Nellie's tenure. Might Mullin and Webb not be the best of friends? Its sheer speculation, but Webb has been salty to the point of hostile toward these Kings since soon after they were saved.

Now Mullin is replaced by Vlade Divac, who obviously was about as close to Webb as anybody as a player.

 

[Gilles]

One other minor thing this may change: the apparent rift with CWebb since Vivek took over.

Consider, Chris Mullin was a Nellieboy when Webb was drafted by Golden State. Not only on the team, but one of Nellie's core guys/biggest backers. Webb then clashed badly with Nellie, forced his way out of town, and effectively ended their window and Nellie's tenure. Might Mullin and Webb not be the best of friends? Its sheer speculation, but Webb has been salty to the point of hostile toward these Kings since soon after they were saved.

Now Mullin is replaced by Vlade Divac, who obviously was about as close to Webb as anybody as a player.

Could they become buddies again after the draft, otherwise it means Kings are not picking WCS?

 

[Kingster]

Um, you do remember who his protege was right?

And you remember who the co-pilot is, right? Fantastic! We have a tyro as pilot with previous experience driving a bus, and a guy who crashed the plane as the co-pilot! GET ON BOARD!

 

[Kingster]

i remain confused by your line of questioning. are you unaware of the subject position that vlade divac occupies? he played with peja effing stojakovic. he was a passing center who made a living by setting up his teammates on the perimeter. he was coached by rick adelman, and he was mentored by pete carril. do you seriously imagine that he doesn't understand the importance of the three-point shot, and that demarcus cousins' low-post presence opens the game up considerably for any shooters the kings may have or may acquire? it hardly strikes me as a big leap of faith to assume that vlade divac can absorb these fairly simple basketball concepts...

let me put it this way: the kings of the early-00's were much closer in philosophy to contemporary nba paradigms than the kings current roster has proven to be. though i remain skeptical of vlade divac's front office acumen (negotiating contracts, managing a salary cap, building a complete roster), i remain wholly unconcerned about his evaluative skills as a basketball mind. christ, the guy was a perfect model of "high basketball IQ" throughout his playing career. aren't you one of many posters around these parts who has oft-complained about a lack of basketball IQ on this team? with an owner who knows little about the game and a gm who cut his teeth as a lawyer, i don't mind vlade divac infusing kings' management with a bit of legendary basketball smarts...

Oh God. Spare me. BBIQ translating into GM IQ? He's a bus driver who now is the pilot of plane. Yeah, his bus has an engine and it transports people and it even has wheels so it's "similar". But it's a freaking bus. You've got to desperate to get on the plane with this guy as pilot. If he doesn't crash on his way to Manila he's going to be in that wonderful thing we know so well as Kings fans - the learning curve! But heck, PDA is co-pilot. That's a comforting thought...

 

[Kingster]

We've gone from Vlade being named president, saying he was just there observing, then finally finding out that he is the top dog through whatever sources, then seemingly implying through sources that PDA was gone, then finding out PDA was staying (presumably because of a lobbying effort by Karl), then hearing that Vlade was searching for a guy to be equal or higher to him in the hierarchy, then having Vlade putting out "GM type" messages maybe implying that he in fact is going to be the GM, and now all the talk about hiring another equal or higher guy in the hierarchy has vanished from universe.

NOW THAT GIVES ME CONFIDENCE! Vlade was brought here to get everybody on the same page, to bring "stability." Is the above stability? Does uncertainty bring stability? Do cryptic statements about one's role in the organization bring stability? Do the shifting sands of this so-called hierarchy bring stability? If this stability, please give me chaos.

 

[Padrino]

Oh God. Spare me. BBIQ translating into GM IQ? He's a bus driver who now is the pilot of plane. Yeah, his bus has an engine and it transports people and it even has wheels so it's "similar". But it's a freaking bus. You've got to desperate to get on the plane with this guy as pilot. If he doesn't crash on his way to Manila he's going to be in that wonderful thing we know so well as Kings fans - the learning curve! But heck, PDA is co-pilot. That's a comforting thought...

i find your metaphors to be insufficient. building a basketball team is hardly the scientific equivalent of air travel, nor does it require its executives to carry the same load as a pilot. this is why scouts matter. this is why talent matters. this is why coaches matter. etc. vlade will not be functioning as a singular decision-maker; he is part of a larger group of individuals with whom he will be tasked with forging consensus. if anything, i'm much more concerned about those existing members of the front office, and their ability to play nice with the new guy...

beyond that, as i've stated a number of times, i have my own doubts about vlade's front office acumen, but if any former player is prepared to make this particular leap, it's the basketball lifer who is whip smart in his understanding of the complexities of the game, has been a leader of men both on and off the court, has represented the nba in a global capacity, and has taken the time to establish and foster healthy relationships with key decision-makers across the league. if those qualities don't serve as a useful barometer for a first-timer's likelihood of success, then i have no idea what kind of scale you'd prefer to rely on...

 

[rhythmless]

Oh God. Spare me. BBIQ translating into GM IQ? He's a bus driver who now is the pilot of plane. Yeah, his bus has an engine and it transports people and it even has wheels so it's "similar". But it's a freaking bus. You've got to desperate to get on the plane with this guy as pilot. If he doesn't crash on his way to Manila he's going to be in that wonderful thing we know so well as Kings fans - the learning curve! But heck, PDA is co-pilot. That's a comforting thought...

Spare you? Seriously? You've posted 4 separate posts with this godawful metaphor of player = bus driver and GM = pilot. It's ridiculous. It's not working but you're trying so hard. Pick a new metaphor.

 

[Kingster]

Spare you? Seriously? You've posted 4 separate posts with this godawful metaphor of player = bus driver and GM = pilot. It's ridiculous. It's not working but you're trying so hard. Pick a new metaphor.

How 'bout this: Why don't you tell me why I should have confidence in the president of this organization who doesn't have the stones to fire an- obsequious suck-up back-stabbing toad who crashed last year's team? If Divac is so wussy or weak he can't clean out the trash of this organization, how is it possible he's ever going to bring excellence to this organization? Is Vlade Divac a guy who just gets along, or is he a guy who makes the tough decision to make someone unhappy by saying: You're Fired.

Is this team going to be run by the wuss and the back-stabling obsequious toad, or isn't it?

 

[itzcoatl]

Vlade Divac is a "wuss"? Haha. Ok. Whatever you say.

 

[bajaden]

Oh God. Spare me. BBIQ translating into GM IQ? He's a bus driver who now is the pilot of plane. Yeah, his bus has an engine and it transports people and it even has wheels so it's "similar". But it's a freaking bus. You've got to desperate to get on the plane with this guy as pilot. If he doesn't crash on his way to Manila he's going to be in that wonderful thing we know so well as Kings fans - the learning curve! But heck, PDA is co-pilot. That's a comforting thought...

God, I can't take anymore of this nonsense. You think Vlade doesn't understand todays game of basketball? I'm 73 years old, and I understand it. I may have my preference as to how I'd like to see the team play, but that doesn't mean I don't understand how others might see things differently. Your making a mountain out of nothing. Vlade hasn't been gone from the game. He owned a team in europe. He scouted for the Lakers. He has friends all over the league. Your trying to paint him as some dumb european scrub basketball player that just got released from an old folks home. You act like the three point shot is some new revolutionary invention that Vlade is struggling to understand.

Just what do you think is required to be a good GM? Obviously in today's NBA, you have to understand the cap. But when Petrie was the GM, he hired people who understood the math end of the business. To be a good GM, you have to be able to recognize talent, and be able to put a reasonable price tag on it. Don't over pay, either in money, or in player exchanges. I'd personally put more faith in Vlade doing that, than I would PDA. Vlade has played in the league at a very high level, and with some great players. He understands what it takes to win in the league. He's been a winner. Yes, the league has changed since the glory days of the Kings. But you know what, just wait a minute, and the flavor of the day will change again, just like the weather in Chicago. Karl is the coach, and I'm sure he may be more of driving factor in player decisions than anything else. Maybe you want to question Karl's experience as well.

 

[Spike]

Oh God. Spare me. BBIQ translating into GM IQ? He's a bus driver who now is the pilot of plane. Yeah, his bus has an engine and it transports people and it even has wheels so it's "similar". But it's a freaking bus. You've got to desperate to get on the plane with this guy as pilot. If he doesn't crash on his way to Manila he's going to be in that wonderful thing we know so well as Kings fans - the learning curve! But heck, PDA is co-pilot. That's a comforting thought...

Do you not understand the difference between a high IQ player understanding how to build a team vs. someone who likely last laced up his shoes in 7th grade?

PDA has no real clue what a winning team looks like; his last stop(s) didn't prepare him at all. Vlade, on the other hand, do I really need to explain?

Yes, he's an inexperienced pilot, to use your (weak) analogy, but he graduated near the top of his class, and had a nice summer internship.

 

[VF21]

How 'bout this: Why don't you tell me why I should have confidence in the president of this organization who doesn't have the stones to fire an- obsequious suck-up back-stabbing toad who crashed last year's team? If Divac is so wussy or weak he can't clean out the trash of this organization, how is it possible he's ever going to bring excellence to this organization? Is Vlade Divac a guy who just gets along, or is he a guy who makes the tough decision to make someone unhappy by saying: You're Fired.

Is this team going to be run by the wuss and the back-stabling obsequious toad, or isn't it?

It seems to me you lack a basic knowledge of what Vlade has been doing since he left the Kings. Running the Serbian Olympic Committee s not for the faint of heart. He gained valuable experience in dealing with athletes, coaches, etc. that should surely serve him well.

You continuing to bash Vlade is ridiculous on its face and IMHO steps perilously close to violating the "don't be a jerk" rule. We get it. You're concerned. I think you've made that abundantly clear. What you're not getting is that most around here are not going to jump to the same conclusion you've already made without giving Divac a chance to prove himself.

 

[Dime Dropper]

It seems to me you lack a basic knowledge of what Vlade has been doing since he left the Kings. Running the Serbian Olympic Committee s not for the faint of heart. He gained valuable experience in dealing with athletes, coaches, etc. that should surely serve him well.

You continuing to bash Vlade is ridiculous on its face and IMHO steps perilously close to violating the "don't be a jerk" rule. We get it. You're concerned. I think you've made that abundantly clear. What you're not getting is that most around here are not going to jump to the same conclusion you've already made without giving Divac a chance to prove himself.

I'm a little concerned too, but only because it's a new role for him. But as far as first timers go, it would be hard to find someone more qualified. I'm pretty certain that Kingster's concerns aren't borne out of Vlade's lack of experience, but rather his communication of what he thinks works (ie. defense and big men), something Kingster disagrees with. I think the lack of experience is merely a convenient cover for Kingster's real problem with him.

That said, I obviously love Vlade, and love what he's said so far. But talk is cheap. He's got a very tough job ahead of him. Lets hope he follows through on putting together the type of team he speaks of.

 

[VF21]

...I'm pretty certain that Kingster's concerns aren't borne out of Vlade's lack of experience...

Gotta disagree, kid ( ).

Oh God. Spare me. BBIQ translating into GM IQ? He's a bus driver who now is the pilot of plane. Yeah, his bus has an engine and it transports people and it even has wheels so it's "similar". But it's a freaking bus. You've got to desperate to get on the plane with this guy as pilot. If he doesn't crash on his way to Manila he's going to be in that wonderful thing we know so well as Kings fans - the learning curve! But heck, PDA is co-pilot. That's a comforting thought...

I think it's pretty clear what Kingster means.