Marc Stein: Vlade in charge

[ParniValjak]

While it's good that we are slowly getting rid of the incompetent, back stabbing weasles, I am FAR from convinced that Vlade is the answer. He has absolutely no experience or exposure to what it takes to be a GM in the NBA. I would rather he remains in the advisory role that Mullin had and we hire an experienced GM who has the same vision that Vlade has on basketball matters. Then it could be a great get. Vlade as the GM or as someone making moves, that's not a convincing move. It's a MUCH bigger gamble than the one Vivek took on PDA.

Vlade's ability to unite people and be the glue guy is extremely valuable for us BUT he does not have any track record for the position that he will seemingly fill and that is more that a little scary. Real potential for all sorts of wrong to happen and we used up all of our cards. There is absolutely NO room for error.

 

[pshn80]

While it's good that we are slowly getting rid of the incompetent, back stabbing weasles, I am FAR from convinced that Vlade is the answer. He has absolutely no experience or exposure to what it takes to be a GM in the NBA. I would rather he remains in the advisory role that Mullin had and we hire an experienced GM who has the same vision that Vlade has on basketball matters. Then it could be a great get. Vlade as the GM or as someone making moves, that's not a convincing move. It's a MUCH bigger gamble than the one Vivek took on PDA.

Vlade's ability to unite people and be the glue guy is extremely valuable for us BUT he does not have any track record for the position that he will seemingly fill and that is more that a little scary. Real potential for all sorts of wrong to happen and we used up all of our cards. There is absolutely NO room for error.

I think what you say is so self evident that even Ranadive knows this so worry not. I know that is hard to do but hang in there.

 

[Chubbs]

One thing we've learned about vivek is that he's not afraid to blatantly pander to fans. And to an entire country. Vlade, Karl and Sim are pretty strong evidence of that.

This is how I imagine the seeds of the Vlade acquisition went. Vivek thinks, "Aw crap, everyone hates me after this malone thing. This sucks. Hmm, you know who everyone in sacramento loves? Vlade Divac. I wonder what his number is."

Being liked is very important to Vivek. It might the most important thing.

Sure, Vlade's been away from the NBA for ten years and has no gm experience or NBA front office experience. Zero! But Sacramento loves him! So, shoot, why not I guess. And sim can barely walk and dribble at the same time without tripping. But hey, he's Indian!

That's not to say I'm totally against this. What Vlade does have is leadership qualities you can't teach. There's not a chance he'd come out of a PDA style fan sitdown hated like PDA did. Just wouldn't happen. And if he's a good enough leader to do that which Vivek talks about, hire people smarter than him, then this can work.

Vlade can lead. But he needs the right people under him. The problem remains the guy above him though.

 

[Warhawk]

While it's good that we are slowly getting rid of the incompetent, back stabbing weasles, I am FAR from convinced that Vlade is the answer. He has absolutely no experience or exposure to what it takes to be a GM in the NBA. I would rather he remains in the advisory role that Mullin had and we hire an experienced GM who has the same vision that Vlade has on basketball matters. Then it could be a great get. Vlade as the GM or as someone making moves, that's not a convincing move. It's a MUCH bigger gamble than the one Vivek took on PDA.

Vlade's ability to unite people and be the glue guy is extremely valuable for us BUT he does not have any track record for the position that he will seemingly fill and that is more that a little scary. Real potential for all sorts of wrong to happen and we used up all of our cards. There is absolutely NO room for error.

Again, it's been said repeatedly that they are looking for one more front office person and Vlade was brought in as PDA's boss. His title isn't GM, it's a VP position.

 

[Chubbs]

Vivek can really bury himself here. Eventually, he'll throw Vlade under the bus like he's done to everyone else.

And that will burn bridges among even the remaining true believers.

Already the leak how Karl was now Vlade's idea. If Karl doesn't work out, we all know what happens next. And if that does happen, you might as well just sell the team vivek.

 

[Bricklayer]

Vivek can really bury himself here. Eventually, he'll throw Vlade under the bus like he's done to everyone else.

And that will burn bridges among even the remaining true believers.

Already the leak how Karl was now Vlade's idea. If Karl doesn't work out, we all know what happens next. And if that does happen, you might as well just sell the team vivek.

No need for all of that.

We can interpret this in a much simpler and more positive manner.

1) ****ed up firing Malone at behest of Mullin & PDA, who convinced him Corbin would do just as well as a replacement.
2) realized his ****up and moved to fire the guys who convinced him to do it
3) responds to fan outrage by buckling and hiring both coach and GM/basketball guy that fans wanted

And since #2 especially is exactly what I peppered him for months about, you got bad advice Vivek, you fired the wrong guy Vivek, you need to fix this Vivek, etc., I have absolutely no problem with it. He SHOULD throw the guys under the bus who caused the initial disaster. And drive over them forward, throw it in reverse, and drive over them again, then step out and urinate on their remains. Its all good. What looks like a compete capitulation to appease the fans with the new hires is even better. It means the fan outrage was heard, received, and responded to in a big way.

 

[Padrino]

What looks like a compete capitulation to appease the fans with the new hires is even better. It means the fan outrage was heard, received, and responded to in a big way.

but was it responded to in the right way? a "too many cooks" syndrome has plagued this front office since day one, and i remain unconvinced that hiring a rookie VP in vlade divac and initiating a search to find yet another front office executive to provide additional support necessarily represents a move away from dysfunction. i admire vlade a great deal, and i do believe that his leadership skills can be an asset to the kings in a FO capacity, but honestly, who the hell knows? are we even certain that pete d'alessandro is headed for the door? the writing would seem to be on the wall, but to this point, vivek ranadive hasn't exactly been a... conventional owner.

 

[VF21]

but was it responded to in the right way? a "too many cooks" syndrome has plagued this front office since day one, and i remain unconvinced that hiring a rookie VP in vlade divac and initiating a search to find yet another front office executive to provide additional support necessarily represents a move away from dysfunction. i admire vlade a great deal, and i do believe that his leadership skills can be an asset to the kings in a FO capacity, but honestly, who the hell knows? are we even certain that pete d'alessandro is headed for the door? the writing would seem to be on the wall, but to this point, vivek ranadive hasn't exactly been a... conventional owner.

I strongly believe the "search" has already been concluded. I think they're only waiting on the right time to announce. For example, if the person is tied to a team heading to the playoffs, they won't be able to bring him on board until his current duties are completed.

 

[CruzDude]

I strongly believe the "search" has already been concluded. I think they're only waiting on the right time to announce. For example, if the person is tied to a team heading to the playoffs, they won't be able to bring him on board until his current duties are completed.

Ahhhh, patience. The achilles heel of KingsFans but I too believe the "extra" man has already been ID'd and is likely to fill a gap maybe as the CBA guru/expert.

 

[rainmaker]

Since 05-06, we have the impressive record of:

242-478, a .336 win % and haven't even hit the lofty 30 win threshold since 07-08. This will be our 7th consecutive season of not getting 30 wins. Yet, fans are still here.

I'd direct the "patience" and the lack there of argument for a fan base who hasn't stuck by its team through utter failure for close to a decade straight. Actually, could argue parts of this fan base are too patient and far too comfortable with losing. Aside from an 8 year stretch under Adelman, we've been a perennial loser of an organization yet fans here are still seen as impatient. If you wanted to make money off gambling, putting money on us having a losing season is a pretty safe bet to make and would have earned you a good ROI since 85, as in outside of Rick's years we've had a losing record in every single season. Every last one of them. Going 39-43 and losing to Sea 3-1 in the 1st round is arguably the shining highlight of our Sac era existence outside Adelman. Think about that.

 

[Chubbs]

I sincerely hope you're right Brick.

I like Vlade. I've always liked Vlade. But he's inexperienced and has a crazy man for a boss, who makes rash moves. This is a very tricky situation for both.

Vivek is all in on Vlade. And all in on Karl. And they have one offseason to fix two years of backstabbing and closed door plots.

Vivek has shown a pattern of blaming everyone but himself. And PDA could end up like that cockroach that survives a nuclear explosion. As long as he remains willing to take the heat for Vivek's blunders and be the public punching bag, why not keep him around?

And PDA strikes me as the type willing to do pretty much anything to keep his paycheck.

 

[Gilles]

From Voisin article: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article18729891.html

Vlade Divac:
“Basketball for me has always been played inside/outside,”
"that starts with defense and rebounding"
Divac’s offseason wish list starts with acquiring a lanky frontcourt defender, then adding shooters, playmakers and depth at all positions.
“Offensively we are OK,” he said, “but the defense is not good. Think back to when we were good. We had Doug Christie. When Doug came to Sacramento, he was our leader on defense. And you need players like that.”

 

[Bricklayer]

From Voisin article: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article18729891.html

Which is why experience or no, I've latched onto Vlade as the hope here. And there really is no evidence for that proposition at all except, EXCEPT, I think he gets it. And in Kingsland just having anybody actually get it is a major accomplishment.

 

[ParniValjak]

Lanky frontcourt defender?!

Willi Cauley-Stein?!

Karl said a defender who can guard multiple positions, a passer not necessarily from PG and more shooting. Reading between the lines I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we went after Draymond Greene in the offseason.

We have the framework, so now it's about filling in the gaps.

 

[gunks]

I'd love to get Draymond.

A bit undersized, but a nasty defender who can hit the 3.

I imagine he's going to have a lot of teams throwing a lot of money at him this off-season.

 

[Kingster]

I'd like to ask Vlade how the inside-outside paradigm has been affected by the domination of the 3 point shot in today's game. The game isn't the same game as when he played. How then does that affect his thinking? Is Vlade seeing things in the rear view mirror, or is his paradigm more subtle than that?

 

[upinsmoke]

Ahhhh, patience. The achilles heel of KingsFans but I too believe the "extra" man has already been ID'd and is likely to fill a gap maybe as the CBA guru/expert.

Hardly. We have demonstrated patience to the highest standards of any fan base.

 

[Padrino]

I'd like to ask Vlade how the inside-outside paradigm has been affected by the domination of the 3 point shot in today's game. The game isn't the same game as when he played. How then does that affect his thinking? Is Vlade seein things in the rear view mirror, or is his paradigm more subtle than that?

of all the strategic shifts that have resulted from the increasing prevalence of the three-point shot in the contemporary nba, what has not changed is the inside-out paradigm. whether you have an elite drive-and-kick threat or an elite low-post big, the goal is the same: suck the defense into the paint and make life easier for your roleplayers. a contested three-pointer remains an inefficient shot for all but a few of the league's most dead-eye shooters. a wide open three-pointer, on the other hand, levels the playing field considerably...

the nba's current demographics may dictate that elite slashers create the most floor space, but that is not in lieu of quality low-post bigs, that is in absence of quality low-post bigs; there's just not a lot of them around. for the past five f***ing seasons, the kings have been sitting on a winning lottery ticket in demarcus cousins, but seem unable to properly cash it in. if they ever manage to add a couple of above-average threats from deep (or if mclemore and stauskas develop even the slightest measure of consistency), big cuz has all of the tools necessary to pass out of double- and triple-teams effectively...

 

[twslam07]

I'd love to get Draymond.

A bit undersized, but a nasty defender who can hit the 3.

I imagine he's going to have a lot of teams throwing a lot of money at him this off-season.

No chance we're getting him even if he was an unrestricted free agent let alone a restricted free agent.

 

[randymoss1881]

From Voisin article: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article18729891.html

So you're telling me his vision of the team is the same vision as Malone vision was and fit his coaching style.

 

[Spike]

So you're telling me his vision of the team is the same vision as Malone vision was and fit his coaching style.

Shh...

 

[Dime Dropper]

I'd like to ask Vlade how the inside-outside paradigm has been affected by the domination of the 3 point shot in today's game. The game isn't the same game as when he played. How then does that affect his thinking? Is Vlade seeing things in the rear view mirror, or is his paradigm more subtle than that?

It's not the same because personnel have changed. Not because what wins has changed. Good luck to 99% of current NBA teams competing against the 01 Kings team in a playoff series. That's where you get confused. What wins games hasn't changed. The personnel playing the games has changed. This is a guards league currently. Best PG generation we've ever seen. Put a legit team around Cousins and see what happens. And yes I mean legit as in the same type of team all the other great centers have had. He's played on train wreck teams so far, quite honestly it's amazing that he's been as dominant as he has.

Vlade is thinking "Lets just crush these little guards running things. Put defense and shooters around Boogie and see what happens". And he's right, whether you agree with that philosophy or not.

 

[rhythmless]

I like Vlade. I've always liked Vlade. But he's inexperienced and has a crazy man for a boss, who makes rash moves. This is a very tricky situation for both.

Honestly, experience is overrated. Look at all the guys with experience who continue to suck. Partly due to the fact that the NBA is a very tight knit club. But look at Kerr, who had no experience as a head coach. What does he have? A nice babyface, a good nature, and ability to connect with guys.

Vlade is in charge of building a team. He's not doing it all himself. Does he have cap experience? No. But you know what cap experience got us? 4 years of Landry, which was such a derided decision the moment it was made. Does he have talent evaluation? I believe so. Does he know what a team needs? I trust that Vlade has always been about team. That's why he's always had guys come to him. That's why he's always been thrust into leadership roles. He may not have all of the office experience, but these past few years should have shown you that office experience means very little. If you had taken a poll from forums (crowdsourced) of all moves before they were done, the polls would usually show that we made better moves than PDA and Vivek or anyone else we had(Kawhi over Jimmer, everyone). Experience means nothing if you're handicapped by a crap owner.

At this point, you need a uniter, experience or not. This isn't about basketball anymore. We have the first block. A possible superstar. It's EASY to build a team afterwards. Honestly, it's pretty easy after a superstar. It's harder to screw it up (enter the cancer Vivek). This isn't rocket science. Everyone in the NBA has talent. It's forcing talent into roles and making them work together for the good of the team. That's Vlade. It's uniting a front office. That's Vlade. He unites things far bigger than a small market NBA team.

You want experience? I hear Kahn is available. Isiah Thomas is on the phone. You already had the Mr. PDA experience. Screw experience. Give me a good smart person with good goals and a pure drive over recycled idiots all day.

 

[Kingster]

of all the strategic shifts that have resulted from the increasing prevalence of the three-point shot in the contemporary nba, what has not changed is the inside-out paradigm. whether you have an elite drive-and-kick threat or an elite low-post big, the goal is the same: suck the defense into the paint and make life easier for your roleplayers. a contested three-pointer remains an inefficient shot for all but a few of the league's most dead-eye shooters. a wide open three-pointer, on the other hand, levels the playing field considerably...

the nba's current demographics may dictate that elite slashers create the most floor space, but that is not in lieu of quality low-post bigs, that is in absence of quality low-post bigs; there's just not a lot of them around. for the past five f***ing seasons, the kings have been sitting on a winning lottery ticket in demarcus cousins, but seem unable to properly cash it in. if they ever manage to add a couple of above-average threats from deep (or if mclemore and stauskas develop even the slightest measure of consistency), big cuz has all of the tools necessary to pass out of double- and triple-teams effectively...

Did you notice the beginning of the Vlade quote: "that starts with defense and rebounding"? So if you want to channel Divac at least get the gist of the question. Now you can tell me how you *think* Divac might answer that question.

I'm troubled by this philosophizing by Vlade. Why? Because it implies that he in fact is our new GM. He's starting to tell us his "GM philosophy". That is very troubling indeed. Does it prove that he's going to be our new GM? No. But if quacks like a duck and walks like a duck...The last thing I want to do is take a flight on a 747 to Manila piloted by a guy with 20 hours of copilot experience.

 

[Kingster]

Boarding. Boarding. All those going to Manila on Flight 401 with Vlade Divac as captain (and 20 hrs of co-pilot flight experience), please board now!

 

[Padrino]

Did you notice the beginning of the Vlade quote: "that starts with defense and rebounding"? So if you want to channel Divac at least get the gist of the question. Now you can tell me how you *think* Divac might answer that question.

I'm troubled by this philosophizing by Vlade. Why? Because it implies that he in fact is our new GM. He's starting to tell us his "GM philosophy". That is very troubling indeed. Does it prove that he's going to be our new GM? No. But if quacks like a duck and walks like a duck...The last thing I want to do is take a flight on a 747 to Manila piloted by a guy with 20 hours of copilot experience.

wait... i'm confused. are you saying that you find vlade's emphasis on defense and rebounding to be "troubling"? after the defensive collapse we witnessed this season first under tyrone corbin and then again under george karl?! surely i'm misinterpreting your meaning, because being "troubled" by such "philosophizing" qualifies as crazy talk, as far as i'm concerned. i'd ask that you clarify...

vlade's "gm philosophy," insofar as we know what it is, seems to be that this kings team needs to play strong defense, win the rebounding battle, and set up an "inside-out" offense that pivots on demarcus' low-post presence and the floor-spacing that it creates. i see nothing controversial here; it strikes me as a rather sensible philosophy, one that considers the talent at the top of the kings' depth chart, and one that isn't merely trend-obsessed sloganeering a la pete d'alessandro and vivek ranadive...

these pull-quotes from vlade strike me as the most encouraging words uttered from anybody within the kings organization in weeks. they represent an understanding of what the team is working with, rather than a fantasy about how this limited roster might best conform to a popular style of play that it's not well-suited for...

 

[Bricklayer]

You want experience? I hear Kahn is available. Isiah Thomas is on the phone. You already had the Mr. PDA experience. Screw experience. Give me a good smart person with good goals and a pure drive over recycled idiots all day.

This is about where I am.

Would I have come up with Vlade as our GM if I were in charge? No. Not without some years of grooming. But I would take an inexperienced guy who gets it philosophically and has 15 years of NBA experience playing for the Golden Era Kings and the winningest franchise in league history over the series fo 3rd benchers and failed boobs that we have trotted out there as options.

 

[Kingster]

Honestly, experience is overrated. Look at all the guys with experience who continue to suck. Partly due to the fact that the NBA is a very tight knit club. But look at Kerr, who had no experience as a head coach. What does he have? A nice babyface, a good nature, and ability to connect with guys.

Vlade is in charge of building a team. He's not doing it all himself. Does he have cap experience? No. But you know what cap experience got us? 4 years of Landry, which was such a derided decision the moment it was made. Does he have talent evaluation? I believe so. Does he know what a team needs? I trust that Vlade has always been about team. That's why he's always had guys come to him. That's why he's always been thrust into leadership roles. He may not have all of the office experience, but these past few years should have shown you that office experience means very little. If you had taken a poll from forums (crowdsourced) of all moves before they were done, the polls would usually show that we made better moves than PDA and Vivek or anyone else we had(Kawhi over Jimmer, everyone). Experience means nothing if you're handicapped by a poopoo owner.

At this point, you need a uniter, experience or not. This isn't about basketball anymore. We have the first block. A possible superstar. It's EASY to build a team afterwards. Honestly, it's pretty easy after a superstar. It's harder to screw it up (enter the cancer Vivek). This isn't rocket science. Everyone in the NBA has talent. It's forcing talent into roles and making them work together for the good of the team. That's Vlade. It's uniting a front office. That's Vlade. He unites things far bigger than a small market NBA team.

You want experience? I hear Kahn is available. Isiah Thomas is on the phone. You already had the Mr. PDA experience. Screw experience. Give me a good smart person with good goals and a pure drive over recycled idiots all day.

This is a strawman. You can't tell me there aren't assistant GMs out there who have both years of experience, and an excellent long term track record who would be much better than Vlade Divac for the GM slot. It's ridiculous on its face. Second, a novice coach who has been a player for a decade or more in the NBA, who has been coached by theoretically very good coaches, is hardly comparable to a player that wants to jump out of his fish pond into the deep blue sea of GM waters. That is exactly what Isaiah Thomas did! If Vlade wants to be the VP and not be "the guy" on personnel matters, great. I'm all for it. He can stabilize and get everybody on the same page and coordinate and all that good stuff. But he better not effectively be our new GM. Otherwise, there's a very good chance for amateur hour and we've seen a freaking amateur decade already. I'm done with that. ABSOLUTELY DONE.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Boarding. Boarding. All those going to Manila on Flight 401 with Vlade Divac as captain (and 20 hrs of co-pilot flight experience), please board now!

No thanks. I'm happy on PDA's flight. He has "experience" as the nerdy analytics guy, after all. **** the guy who talks about actual winning basketball, let's stick with the guy who can't be trusted and makes b***h move after b***h move. Don't think your bandwagon is going to be full.

But PDA does subscribe to SCORE, POINTS, YAY, FANS ARE STUPID, MORE POINTS, THEY HAPPY, so I absolutely see why you're enamoured with it.

 

[Kingster]

wait... i'm confused. are you saying that you find vlade's emphasis on defense and rebounding to be "troubling"? after the defensive collapse we witnessed this season first under tyrone corbin and then again under george karl?! surely i'm misinterpreting your meaning, because being "troubled" by such "philosophizing" qualifies as crazy talk, as far as i'm concerned. i'd ask that you clarify...

vlade's "gm philosophy," insofar as we know what it is, seems to be that this kings team needs to play strong defense, win the rebounding battle, and set up an "inside-out" offense that pivots on demarcus' low-post presence and the floor-spacing that it creates. i see nothing controversial here; it strikes me as a rather sensible philosophy, one that considers the talent at the top of the kings' depth chart, and one that isn't merely trend-obsessed sloganeering a la pete d'alessandro and vivek ranadive...

these pull-quotes from vlade strike me as the most encouraging words uttered from anybody within the kings organization in weeks. they represent an understanding of what the team is working with, rather than a fantasy about how this limited roster might best conform to a popular style of play that it's not well-suited for...

Don't be confused. Just read the post and look at the questions I'm asking Vlade Divac. It's pretty simple. Not confusing. How about this to encapsulate it all: Vlade, please give me a detailed answer how the 3 point shot has affected the NBA game today as opposed to your day, and please then tell us all how the impact of the 3 point shot affects your ideas on analysis personnel for the draft, FA, and trades?