Marc Stein: Celtics will "open their war chest" in potential Cousins trade

LPKingsFan said:
How'd you guys miss this? Could have spared yourselves several hours of angst!



http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/sources-kings-not-interested-trading-cousins-celtics

(No, I know this isn't the last we'll hear about this subject)
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I think those reports have filtered out -- and somehow our front office seems a lot worse at getting out reasonable messages than they are at making asses of themselves. But there is such a well of distrust simmering that nobody pays any attention to them. Just where its at right now. By my count these "league sources" now join both a tepid Vivek statement and a fairly strong if not 100% direct Vlade statement saying there is no chance here. But I think our front office is so far in the hole, have done such inexplicable crap, that nobody is going to count on them doing the right thing until the season starts, things turn, and the morons don't fire the coach over it this time.
 
they can open their city and that won't be enough to warrant a trade to the Celtics....but it doesn't hurt to try and knowing Ainge, he will try.
 
This is the same FO who was behind Malone, then the same FO who was 100% behind Corbin for the rest of the year. Also the same team who's head coach recently said no one on this roster is untradeable.

Them saying we won't trade Cuz and want to make a playoff run next year with him means nothing. Proof will be in the pudding this summer. Could easily mean we won't trade him for the offers we've received. Give us a better one. Or not. Who knows. But conventional wisdom is an ocean away from our FO.
 
Ainge is being Ainge in trying to make a deal for Cousins. He's got no ammo to do the deal, though. A lot of mid to low #1s and nobody good enough to be close to Cousins in value.

If Kings don't do something dramatic (and good) this year to revamp the team, Cousins leaving would seem to be a foregone conclusion. I still don't think they could do their draft pick (#6 or #7) and then pick up a FA and voila! everything is going to be peaches and cream next year. They could easily end up in the soup again next year, and then they face a trade Cousins scenario on opening day of the new arena. Happy Days.
 
SacTownKid said:
Not to spark a debate but I wouldn't even trade Cousins for Davis.
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Neither would I.

The Kings won 17, 25, 24, 22, and 28 games in the 5 seasons Tyreke Evans was on the team. 2 years into his tenure with New Orleans he is on a playoff team that won 45 games during the regular season.

What was the big difference? Simply put, he has better players around him.

Once the Kings have better players surrounding DeMarcus, as well as some stability within the front office, they'll start winning -- A LOT.

The only player in the league, IMO, that could have made a huge difference in the W/L record of any of the teams DeMarcus has played on since 2010 is LeBron James - a once in a generation player. You swap out DeMarcus out for Steph Curry, James Harden, Kevin Durant or any other star player in the league and the team isn't much better, if any, given the complimentary talent and front office instability. And we're not talking about only 1 season of this BS. It's been this way ever since Big Cuz was drafted and heightened in the last years of the Magoof era and this year with all the ridiculousness that occurred during/after Cousins illness.

Point is, placing blame at the feet of #15 is flat out foolish. Despite how good he is, and especially considering how deep the Western Conference is, you can't expect one player not named LeBron James to carry a franchise like this one.

With regard to Anthony Davis, the Pelicans won 27 and 34 games his 1st two seasons. They are now winning because AD not only improved, but mostly because they have surrounded him with capable talent AND because they have front office stability with an owner that stays out of the way.

The reason I wouldn't trade Cuz for Davis, as great as he is, is because I believe Cuz's game is better suited for the playoffs than AD's ever will be. I'm not saying AD can't win, but you saw Draymond Green move him off the block and out-muscle him for key rebounds. I think that will always be the case with AD because of his slender frame. Also, when AD was called upon for a game-winning shot, he wasn't able to muscle through "playoff" contact to get a descent shot. DeMarcus won't ever have those problems.

Davis is obviously a better shot blocker, but I don't think he's a better defender because he can be moved so easily. DeMarcus blocked nearly 2 shots per game this past season and has consistently drawn more charges than anyone in the league. Most importantly, he snatches defensive rebounds as well as anybody in the league. Offensively, AD is a more efficient shooter, but he can't score on the post better than Cuz nor is he a better passer.

All things considered, I believe a team with a solid supporting cast will be better off in the long run with DeMarcus. Right now, AD has a solid supporting cast from top to bottom whereas Cuz does not. The Kings have essentially no bench and a disjointed starting 5 with poor perimeter shooting skills.

Improve the bench, acquire some legit shooters and see what happens.
 
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KingsFanSince85 said:
Neither would I.


The only player in the league, IMO, that could have made a huge difference in the W/L record of any of the teams DeMarcus has played on since 2010 is LeBron James - a once in a generation player. You swap out DeMarcus out for Steph Curry, James Harden, Kevin Durant or any other star player in the league and the team isn't much better, if any, given the complimentary talent and front office instability. And we're not talking about only 1 season of this BS. It's been this way ever since Big Cuz was drafted and heightened in the last years of the Magoof era and this year with all the ridiculousness that occurred during/after Cousins illness.
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I would take Harden and healthy Durrant every day off the week over Cousins. While I can't comment on if you "swap"out so and so for so and so because it makes no sense to me since you can't prove anything either way, as off right now Harden and Durrant (health provided) are on a completely different level to Cousins. You simply can't put Cousins in the same sentence as guys like LeBron/KD/Harden he's not there yet (might never be) and that's no disrespect to Cousins cause your talking about the elite of the elite which is almost a impossible level to get to for 99.9% of the professionals that play basketball.

You got guys like Westbrook/Cp3/Curry (probably a few more I think think off right now) and these types that I would struggle to say (and wouldn't) that Cousins impacts the game more than them either.

I know in the MVP thread in the other part of the forum some fans actually thought Cousins is better than guys like Harden/Curry/Durrant which is kind of shocking.
 
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KingMilz said:
I would take Harden and healthy Durrant every day off the week over Cousins. While I can't comment on if you "swap"out so and so for so and so because it makes no sense to me since you can't prove anything either way, as off right now Harden and Durrant (health provided) are on a completely different level to Cousins. You simply can't put Cousins in the same sentence as guys like LeBron/KD/Harden he's not there yet (might never be) and that's no disrespect to Cousins cause your talking about the elite of the elite which is almost a impossible level to get to for 99.9% of the professionals that play basketball.

You got guys like Westbrook/Cp3/Curry (probably a few more I think think off right now) and these types that I would struggle to say (and wouldn't) that Cousins impacts the game more than them either.

I know in the MVP thread in the other part of the forum some fans actually thought Cousins is better than guys like Harden/Curry/Durrant which is kind of shocking.
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Well it's difficult to measure individual performance in a team game and make it comparable. I wouldn't take Durant or Harden over Cousins and I think your comparison to Kevin Love is completely off. But I guess this is just personal preference. Even if DMC wouldn't be on the level of Harden I take him over the "Beard" just because I can't stand the way Harden plays or is allowed to play. Same goes for Durant. I want no part of those soft, flopping franchise players.
 
If Cousins gets traded, I am done with this joke of a franchise! We already are a laughing stock! We do this then we should be relegated out of the NBA. Kings are lucky that NBA does not have the relgation other wise we would have been kicked out a long time ago.

They way we are run, no wonder we are a laughing stock around the world in terms of being one of the worst run franchises in all of sport. Not just the NBA.
 
Only if they can go back in time five or six years and give us pierce, Garnett and Allen
 
rainmaker said:
This is the same FO who was behind Malone, then the same FO who was 100% behind Corbin for the rest of the year. Also the same team who's head coach recently said no one on this roster is untradeable.

Them saying we won't trade Cuz and want to make a playoff run next year with him means nothing. Proof will be in the pudding this summer. Could easily mean we won't trade him for the offers we've received. Give us a better one. Or not. Who knows. But conventional wisdom is an ocean away from our FO.
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Either way this for once is the right response from the Kings. Perhaps this means they are finally learning.
 
This story is more about the Celtics wants than anything else. Ainge is putting pressure on our front office because of our obvious weakness and inexperience. This is what any good GM would do. Perhaps hearing the rumors, Cousins starts to think of the possibilities of playing there along with free agent KLove and asks for the trade.

I say this because Ainge is good and our FO makes me nervous. I pray they don't fall into this obvious trap.
 
Boston's front office is just as notorious as ours and Philly for "testing the waters" of media and fan feedback there is in the business. If you can even trust this in the first place.
 
Bricklayer said:
You know what I don't get there?

This is Bill Herrenda, part of the Kings broadcast crew right? What's with the "league sources said". what did he do, have to go interview opposing team GMs to find out because ours wouldn't go on record?
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Technically, Herenda isn't part of the Kings broadcasting crew. He's part of the ComcastSportsNetwork BayArea crew that provides pre- and post-game coverage.
 
What I think is happening here?The 'Demarcus is available' bull crap is a Karl - PDA thing.The 'Demarcus is NOT available' is a Vlade thing. I'm thinking Vlade wins out, and the franchise continues down a more successful path under Vlade.
edit: Don't drink and post kids, especially not on your phone. Mistakes are inevitable.
 
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Kingsguy881 said:
What I think is happening here?The 'Demarcus is available' bull crap is a Karl - PDA thing.The 'Demarcus is NOT available' is a Vlade thing. I'm thinking Vlade wins out, and the franchise continues down a more successful path under Vlade.
edit: Don't drink and post kids, especially not on your phone. Mistakes are inevitable.
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Your speaking from experience I assume......:rolleyes:
 
Contrary to popular belief these days, having a dominant big man is still the more surefire way to build a winner than with wing players and/or 3 point shooters. The reason why the NBA has evolved into a guard/forward and 3 point shooting heavy league is because most teams can't find a capable big. But the teams that have one typically win a few titles or are, at the very least, a legit contender most seasons assuming they have complimentary talent surrounding that player.

If you take the top 5 bigs of all-time and add up their titles compared to the top 5 wing players of all-time, guess which group comes out on top?

The same is still true today if you really think about it, as Tim Duncan has 5 titles as largely the #1 player on his team.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Contrary to popular belief these days, having a dominant big man is still the more surefire way to build a winner than with wing players and/or 3 point shooters. The reason why the NBA has evolved into a guard/forward and 3 point shooting heavy league is because most teams can't find a capable big. But the teams that have one typically win a few titles or are, at the very least, a legit contender most seasons assuming they have complimentary talent surrounding that player.

If you take the top 5 bigs of all-time and add up their titles compared to the top 5 wing players of all-time, guess which group comes out on top?

The same is still true today if you really think about it, as Tim Duncan has 5 titles as largely the #1 player on his team.
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People don't get how dominate Boogie will be when he gets surrounded by shooters. Dudes a willing passer wants he's surrounded by shooters and a PF that had to be respected dude will average 25-12-4 without sweating.
Let's hope Ben can become consistent and we get a PF with range or one who cuts and can finish. Right now teams can double/triple tram him. Evan a guy like Gibson who will be available. Opponents PF can't camp in the lane if we got him Gibson would eat them alive from 15ft.

Also I think having a wing scorer is more important than a pg
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Contrary to popular belief these days, having a dominant big man is still the more surefire way to build a winner than with wing players and/or 3 point shooters. The reason why the NBA has evolved into a guard/forward and 3 point shooting heavy league is because most teams can't find a capable big. But the teams that have one typically win a few titles or are, at the very least, a legit contender most seasons assuming they have complimentary talent surrounding that player.

If you take the top 5 bigs of all-time and add up their titles compared to the top 5 wing players of all-time, guess which group comes out on top?

The same is still true today if you really think about it, as Tim Duncan has 5 titles as largely the #1 player on his team.
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This is the common narrative here. I'm not competent enough to say if it's true or not, but at least one can argue, that historical evidence doesn't mean that much for the contemporary NBA. To me it seems like the game has changed quite a bit and the alleged absence of good big man is just one reason, if it's a reason at all.

It has never been so easy to penetrate to score or draw fouls as a guard or wing. It has never been so easy to get jumpshots off cleanly even when contested. The transition 3 has never been more en vogue. The post play has never been so absent. The pick&roll has never been that important. The floor spacing out of 4 to 5 positions has never been so vital.

The likes of Bogut, Nene, Gortat, Aldridge, Monroe, Howard, the Gasols, Griffin, Zbo, Davis would have been used a whole lot differently back in the days. Some of these guys are very skilled. So to me it's a bit of a stretch to say, that there are no capable bigs in the league.
But still most teams decide to play outside-inside, to create out of the pick&roll and not out of the post. Some bigs on that list, get reduced to passers and finishers on offense, while the game is almost completely in the hands of the PG's and/or relies on floor spacing and ball movement.
Question is, if this trend will last or if this short phase before the NBA will turn to low post play once again, cause it is more efficient.
I personally think this trend will last, no matter how dominant certain big's could have been in the 90's. It will last, cause the NBA want's the game to be played like that. I suppose there is no desire from the NBA executives to return to low post wrestling matches, when flashy players like Curry, Harden, Irving or Lebron are that popular.
 
KingsFanGER said:
This is the common narrative here. I'm not competent enough to say if it's true or not, but at least one can argue, that historical evidence doesn't mean that much for the contemporary NBA. To me it seems like the game has changed quite a bit and the alleged absence of good big man is just one reason, if it's a reason at all.

It has never been so easy to penetrate to score or draw fouls as a guard or wing. It has never been so easy to get jumpshots off cleanly even when contested. The transition 3 has never been more en vogue. The post play has never been so absent. The pick&roll has never been that important. The floor spacing out of 4 to 5 positions has never been so vital.

The likes of Bogut, Nene, Gortat, Aldridge, Monroe, Howard, the Gasols, Griffin, Zbo, Davis would have been used a whole lot differently back in the days. Some of these guys are very skilled. So to me it's a bit of a stretch to say, that there are no capable bigs in the league.
But still most teams decide to play outside-inside, to create out of the pick&roll and not out of the post. Some bigs on that list, get reduced to passers and finishers on offense, while the game is almost completely in the hands of the PG's and/or relies on floor spacing and ball movement.
Question is, if this trend will last or if this short phase before the NBA will turn to low post play once again, cause it is more efficient.
I personally think this trend will last, no matter how dominant certain big's could have been in the 90's. It will last, cause the NBA want's the game to be played like that. I suppose there is no desire from the NBA executives to return to low post wrestling matches, when flashy players like Curry, Harden, Irving or Lebron are that popular.
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as always, there's more than one way to skin a cat; if you decide to let nba trends dictate your team's direction, rather than the talent already in your possession, then you are doomed to fail, as the kings were this last season. mike malone knew what he had, and for an all-too-brief stretch of games, he began molding this team into a winner despite the fact that his strategy was in direct opposition to contemporary nba trends. then the kings' brass decided that they were more fascinated by those trends than by the prospect of a winning record, and attempted to graft a "pace and space" identity onto a roster that was not fit for such a style of play. the result was, predictably, a 29-win tragedy after such a promising start to the season...

it doesn't matter "if this trend will last" or not. it doesn't matter if there "is no desire from the NBA executives to return to low post wrestling matches." when you have a talent like demarcus cousins who's as rare as a unicorn in the contemporary nba landscape, you have an advantage that every other team in the nba lacks, rule changes be damned (demarcus cousins' hall-of-fame-caliber numbers for his age would seem to belie the notion that the rule changes are preventing him from having a tremendous impact on a game-to-game basis). that the kings have failed to exploit such an advantage for the last five seasons is much more of an indictment on the roster-building prowess of two separate regimes than a failure of demarcus cousins to live up to his promise. and that some kings fans seem unable to comprehend just how special his performance on both sides of the ball has become may, in fact, be the greatest tragedy of all...
 
The best chance this team has to return to the Chris Webber days, is not to trade away one of the best young players in the league for a bunch of draft picks. The best way is to find a way to surround him with talent that can help this team take the next step towards returning to the play offs.



We've spent enough time lingering in the lottery in the post-Webber era. I don't want to see us remain at this level for much longer. It's time to get Cousins more support, and get back to the play offs. Not stockpile picks in exchange for a potentially elite player like Cousins.
 
After looking at all the Draft Picks in the Boston war chest, I really don't see any picks that might get us a top ten draft pick

Even if we got 5 different late 1st round or several 2nd rounders I really don't believe we would really have any chance of getting back a top player like DMC even if you wait 4-5 years for all of those picks
to amaze us with a lucky pick

The only way you let go of DMC is for another top ten player and a 1st round pick
 
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