love_them_kings
Starter
nbrans said:
You missed my point. I was being sarcastic.
Maloofs on TNT
- Thread starter Burrito06
- Start date
You missed my point. I was being sarcastic.
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playmaker0017
Guest
KP said:
Possibly.
But, when everyone is healthy - I think the one player that will suffer the most is Bibby.
Artest/Reef/Bonzi are ALL slow-down players more at home in a traditional set than running around like they are in the YMCA rec league. (which is how we've played a lot over the past 10 games) These players operate in the post or off of post play.
That means Bibby might be forced out of his comfort zone.
Of course, it's all conjecture until they all take the court.
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playmaker0017
Guest
KP said:
Can I sign up for this fan club?
love_them_kings
Starter
nbrans said:
I'm glad the Maloofs have basketball on their mind, and I'm glad they are trying to improve the team, even if this isn't necessarily the trade I would have picked. I'm not saying they should have kept Peja to avoid hurting his feelings, I'm just saying that could have handled it in a way that shows a little more respect for what he brought to this team.
Rockmeister
All-Star
How is thesanityannex reaching?KP said:
kennadog
Dog On It!
I am over how it was handled and yes I see that Pedja's over the intitial shock and I'm glad he seems excited about this change. The Maloofs bring this on themselves to some extent, because they are always talking about treating people like "family". Just say you'll treat them like employees and forget trying to sell us the false warm fuzzies.thesanityannex said:
KP
Starter
I don't disagree with your assesment as far as the impact certain players have on Bibbys game, I just think it's the lesser players should be dealt. Bibbys already proven himself a championship calibur PG... and that he was the best player by far left on this team. Bibby doesn't need to run in order to score he can score inside or out in the half court set. As he's demonstrated over and over the past few weeks, and pretty much his whole career. His problem is defense but even that has gotten better recently and to be honest was never much worse than most of his teamates, put Artest on the perimeter with him and Bonzi and that particular weakness is going to be lessened signifigantly... and Bibby has no others.playmaker0017 said:
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
playmaker0017 said:Or the fact that he's a 6'2" SG.
Damn good one too.
Also goes by another name: best player on the Kings. Or former now that Artest is here.
Last 10 games: 26.5pts 6.1pts 3.0rebs
Reef may or may not stay. But either way he clearly isn't part of any core and is kind of a superflorous part. Have yet to see us find a way to really make effective use of him. Mike however has staked his claim to being that leader he wanted to be. Certainly of all the Kings he has been the one to remind us why he was so valued in the first place.
love_them_kings
Starter
nbrans said:
no problem. probably need some sort of smiley or something, but I got distracted... gee, I hate it when I have to put the kids to bed.
nbrans
All-Star
Bricklayer said:
Yeah, I'm a Reef supporter and I still feel that if a good enough defensive power forward/rebounder came along I'd be all for either shipping Reef out or moving him to the bench. However, I have a pretty high threshold to meet with that -- they have to be both good on defense AND rebounding since Reef is a good defender and solid on offense.
Bibby has taken his game to another level recently, and it's been pretty astounding to watch. He's at the apex of his career at this point. Early in the season he looked comatose, now he's got some fire in his eye.
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playmaker0017
Guest
KP said:
Not that I agree that Bibby is necessarily "better" talent wise --- but you'd have to do a LOT of trading to find Bibby the right squad to keep this up.
I disagree on both counts.
In my opinion, I think Bibby showed that he was a valuable player on a VERY talented team --- especially when he was asked to avoid playing as a real PG.
I don't think he is the best player on this team either. He's the player taking the most shots and he's hot. But, I don't think that makes him the best. I would place him 3rd or 4th. I would probably rank it:
1) Artest
2) Reef
3) Miller or Bibby
It's not about scoring. If he was a SG, I'd agree ... but he's not.
He's a PG. His job is to get the TEAM involved.
I don't blame him for shooting a lot right now with Reef and Bonzi out and with Peja on a cold streak from Alaska. But, I think for the team to succeed he has to defer.
Our best scorers are Artest and Reef. Reef, no matter your thoughts on him, is a bonifide 20PPG guy. Has been EVERY year he's been in the league and taken more than 15 shots. Artest has become quite good over the few years.
I think if this team wants to win, it needs to focus on basics. Focus on the traditional sets. Play solid, fundamental basketball.
LMM
Starter
^^ i don't think bibby is someone who's hard to get along with.
i get the sense that, basically, if you can have good conversations with him and open up to him, he'll be cool with you. cuttino's first day at arco arena, he was chilling with bibby on the bench and they were already laughing and bonding.
i don't think getting along with mike will be a problem, especially since brad and ron get along pretty well.
atleast i hope ron won't cause anything harmful to the team.
i get the sense that, basically, if you can have good conversations with him and open up to him, he'll be cool with you. cuttino's first day at arco arena, he was chilling with bibby on the bench and they were already laughing and bonding.
i don't think getting along with mike will be a problem, especially since brad and ron get along pretty well.
atleast i hope ron won't cause anything harmful to the team.
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thesanityannex
Guest
Bibby seems very excited to play with him. The only people who don't want to play with him are his ex-teammates. I can see Bibby and Artest becoming something special.kennadog said:
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thesanityannex
Guest
I know you are a Reef homer, but come on, that is a stretch.playmaker0017 said:
IMO
1) Artest
2) Bibby/Miller
3) Bonzi/Reef
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playmaker0017
Guest
Bricklayer said:
I disagree, but that's a matter of preference. He's having the best SEASON of all the Kings.
I put most of the blame on Bibby and Adleman for that.
Reef with 17 shots a game would also be averaging 20+PPG. Of that there is no question. But, the added bonus is he actually expends a little energy on the defensive end.
My point, initially, was not a Reef love fest. I don't think he is a savoir of this organization or any such nonsense.
I just don't see Bibby as this great player. He's GREAT if you have the right team ... I just don't see this team, even with the addition of Artest as "that team". Bibby is NOT a PG, in my opinion.
I'm not trying to convince anyone or write this in stone ... it's just my opinion.
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playmaker0017
Guest
KP said:
Name one player on our roster that averaged 20PPG once in their career.
Okay. Thank you.
KP
Starter
We have one bona-fide 20 ppg scorer(besides Artest) and thats Mike at 21+. There is no one on this team that will break that mark besides those two trust me. I will give Reef some credit for trying to come back with his injury(I really think he wants to help, not win back his starting job) but I would say overall I've been slightly dissapointed by his play this year... and I wasn't one of the ones expecting a lot.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I do not know that Reef is what he once was.
And I really don't know if Reef is a major player on a good team. He has all the impact of a wet sock. Gets his points and means absolutely nothing.
Mike however is both -- big scorer on a bad team. And we've seen him be a deadly roleplayer on a good one. Mike was our #2 gun in what was essentially the NBA Finals in 2002, and he scared the opponent more than any other King. He can play at an enormouosly high level on the biggest stages.
On the other hand Reef's had the better overall career statistically, but he may be on a one-way boat to irrelevancy.
And I really don't know if Reef is a major player on a good team. He has all the impact of a wet sock. Gets his points and means absolutely nothing.
Mike however is both -- big scorer on a bad team. And we've seen him be a deadly roleplayer on a good one. Mike was our #2 gun in what was essentially the NBA Finals in 2002, and he scared the opponent more than any other King. He can play at an enormouosly high level on the biggest stages.
On the other hand Reef's had the better overall career statistically, but he may be on a one-way boat to irrelevancy.
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playmaker0017
Guest
thesanityannex said:
Is it?
If so, show me.
Agree.
Two of the worst defenders in the league?
Bibby is a great scorer. No one disputes that. But, he's a volume shooter and when he's doing it as a PG ... he dominates the ball. It will look great in short stretches, but it's detrimental over the long haul.
Miller is a great what if, to me. He's probably the most consistant, dead eye shooter when left open I've ever seen. It's amazing. But, the secret is ... he HAS to be open. He's a decent enough passer, but you don't really need that out of a C.
[SIZE=-1]
If Reef was getting the proper amount of touches ... not 11 ... people would have something different to say. 20/7 is DEFINITELY the best on this team.
I know people have a sentimental attachment to Bibby/Miller (sort of like I've got for Reef) and have never gotten to see Reef be Reef ... but he didn't score 20+PPG in every season of his career before Portland by some fluke.
[/SIZE]
nbrans
All-Star
I don't think this has to turn into a Mike's great/Reef sucks argument. Shareef has played very well this year. He has shortcomings that everyone is well aware of. Mike has had an up and down year, and lately is way up. He has shortcomings that everyone is well aware of. No need to tear one player down to build the other one up.
I'd like to see Reef play with the new lineup and when he's healthy. Then let's talk about what he can and can't do.
I'd like to see Reef play with the new lineup and when he's healthy. Then let's talk about what he can and can't do.
Oh lord.
Okay, playmaker you win. Shareef Abdur-Rahim is the key to the Kings' future success. It is he and he alone who will take us to the next level.
Mike Bibby is cannon fodder. He's been on a lucky streak lately that has clearly blinded everyone to his true mediocrity.
Okay, playmaker you win. Shareef Abdur-Rahim is the key to the Kings' future success. It is he and he alone who will take us to the next level.
Mike Bibby is cannon fodder. He's been on a lucky streak lately that has clearly blinded everyone to his true mediocrity.
nbrans
All-Star
VF21 said:
Hey now, playmaker has some valid points. Shareef's play has been met with "wet blanket" comments from people on this board and it's taken playing with a broken jaw for people to acknowledge that he has heart and tenacity, when in fact some people have seen those qualities all along.
Bibby had some shortcomings that are brushed aside because he's good on offense. Just because people don't agree with playmaker, and I don't necessarily agree with him all of the time, doesn't mean he can't express a valid opinion.
