Luka Doncic (the 'LET'S RE-LITIGATE THE PICK UNTO PERPETUITY~!' thread)

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KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#421
#421
Joshoua said:
Yes, but at the same time most if not everyone capped his ppg in the very low 20s including me. He’s already there

And I’ll always argue aganinst the idiotic taking the ball out of Fox hands like he’s the second coming. The ball gets taken out of Curry/Lebron/Kyrie hands all the time. Look at night when Fox is having a bad game it would be nice to have an elite playmaker with him.

And I agree with @Nokidding JJJ is special I don’t know if I had it written on the forum but I was extremely high on him and would have took him over Ayton
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I never put caps or restrictions on him in terms of stats/numbers. But I do think his potential and ceiling is lower than Bagley's. And since he's played pro ball since he was 13, I think he's a lot closer to his ceiling than Bagley is to his. Ultimately, I believe both are going to be all-star caliber players for a long time. Which one is better in the long term and a better fit is still up for debate and won't be decided anytime soon.

Regarding the taking the ball out of Fox's hands, having an opinion against that is fine. But there is some merit to the idea whether you agree with it or not.

IMO, it's not about taking the ball out of Fox hands sometimes and more about having too many ball dominant players for the style of offense the KINGS want to run. The Warriors largely have unselfish players so it hasn't been a problem for them, although they had to make adjustments when KD came on board. The other examples you provided don't exactly run a similar ball sharing offense. So not a good comparison. The KINGS need the ball in FOX's hands to push it on the break. Beyond that, it's supposed to be shared.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#422
#422
pdxKingsFan said:
I'm in this same camp. And I was reluctant to accept Bagley until I saw 2018 Fox and the style the Kings want to play with and that we are ahead of the curve that I (who would probably one of the more optimistic for this season) had imagined.

Luka was ready and a lot of that factoring into my process was that we don't have the 2019 pick and it could really help us save face to get the best player in year one. But I really do think long term we know nothing. It's all guesses. Luka is not a typical 19 year old rookie because of all the pro experience he already has. Does that mean he has LeBron's ceiling or does it mean that he's a Gordon Hayward that didn't take 4 years for anyone to notice? I don't know and neither do any of us.
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Concur 100%.

That said, if Luka becomes the next superstar and Bagley is just another good player -- I'll snap! But for now, I'm open-minded based upon the things we both mentioned.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#423
#423
KingsFanSince85 said:
Concur 100%.

That said, if Luka becomes the next superstar and Bagley is just another good player -- I'll snap! But for now, I'm open-minded based upon the things we both mentioned.
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You and me both. I'm just going to give it 2-3 seasons before I overreact. Our development of Buddy and Fox certainly warrants a little patience.
 
kingsfan1984

kingsfan1984

Starter
#424
#424
Mitchel vs Fox yr 1....it was gut wrenching watching honestly

Yr 2 Fox looks like he could be the better player.

Luka vs Bags....Luka is a pudgy dude that I question how much he will put into his off seasons to improve that body. To the eye he looks like he can't pull himself away from the cheeseburger stand. Truly settling into PF (power fat) player. Working hard to be that post defense player that can't be moved except by the sight of candy

Reading the tea leaves, Bagley has the mindset on and OFF the court to rise to greatness where Lukas will be training to be #1 in the hotdogs eating contest. He is like those child stars that flame out because of the early game. Basketballs Bieber
 
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S

sergmatt

Bench
#426
#426
kingsfan1984 said:
Mitchel vs Fox yr 1....it was gut wrenching watching honestly

Yr 2 Fox looks like he could be the better player.

Luka vs Bags....Luka is a pudgy dude that I question how much he will put into his off seasons to improve that body. To the eye he looks like he can't pull himself away from the cheeseburger stand. Truly settling into PF (power fat) player. Working hard to be that post defense player that can't be moved except by the sight of candy

Reading the tea leaves, Bagley has the mindset on and OFF the court to rise to greatness where Lukas will be training to be #1 in the hotdogs eating contest. He is like those child stars that flame out because of the early game. Basketballs Bieber
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Reasonable Take....
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#427
#427
Thought I would post the RPM stat for all rookies here. The first table is sorted by RPM and the second table is sorted by Wins (which favors players who play more minutes).

RPM Rank
1543524170704.png

Wins Rank
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Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#428
#428
twslam07 said:
Thought I would post the RPM stat for all rookies here. The first table is sorted by RPM and the second table is sorted by Wins (which favors players who play more minutes).

RPM Rank
View attachment 8540

Wins Rank
View attachment 8541
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Not good whatsoever, and supports why Joerger is reluctant to play him, and I’m uncomfortable with him on the court with the intent to win

Good physical specimen with talent who can be good, but who has raw BBIQ and feel for the game. Floor plan defensively, in terms of rotations, switches, rim not there yet. Doesn’t kick out or play within smooth offense. Raw BBIQ. Raw. Hope it rounds out

Even if IMO the minority chance that Bagley catches up or surpasses, he is raw and it will take years. So isn’t years of being raw and not overly helping a detriment to being nba ready as a singular factor? They only have certain years on their contracts
 
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Hansel

Hansel

Bench
#429
#429
kingsfan1984 said:
Luka vs Bags....Luka is a pudgy dude that I question how much he will put into his off seasons to improve that body. To the eye he looks like he can't pull himself away from the cheeseburger stand. Truly settling into PF (power fat) player. Working hard to be that post defense player that can't be moved except by the sight of candy

Reading the tea leaves, Bagley has the mindset on and OFF the court to rise to greatness where Lukas will be training to be #1 in the hotdogs eating contest. He is like those child stars that flame out because of the early game. Basketballs Bieber
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This post defines you more than Doncic and Bagley. Thanks for the contribution.
 
Hansel

Hansel

Bench
#430
#430
KingsFanSince85 said:
Well, I wasn't one of those people. I was praising and lobbying for him same as you. I was pissed on draft night when Vlade passed on him.

But I do think Bagley might prove to be the better pick and better fit in due time. I'm not convinced one way or the other yet. Just hopeful. But I do see the logic in the Bagley selection now whereas I couldn't when it initially happened.
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I know, it wasn't personal don't worry.
I'm not into personal feuds with users.
I just reported some comments I remember...
They know who they are.
 
63royals

63royals

Bench
#432
#432
In years past, when we needed at least one more great player (and frequently more), it was extremely important to talk about who we needed to add to our team. As I've said, I would have picked Doncic too. Doncic looks just as good as he seemed to be before the draft.

The #1 thing for me is that I'm tired of being a player or more away from contending. The Kings chose Bagley, and it looks like the Kings can contend with the team they have. It's possible that it could be even better if we had drafted Doncic. Since they didn't, I'm excited about the possibilities of the players we have.
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#433
#433
63royals said:
In years past, when we needed at least one more great player (and frequently more), it was extremely important to talk about who we needed to add to our team. As I've said, I would have picked Doncic too. Doncic looks just as good as he seemed to be before the draft.

The #1 thing for me is that I'm tired of being a player or more away from contending. The Kings chose Bagley, and it looks like the Kings can contend with the team they have. It's possible that it could be even better if we had drafted Doncic. Since they didn't, I'm excited about the possibilities of the players we have.
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And in order to do that would we be in better shape for an FO change, given this situation?

For me yes, which is the issue.

I appreciate Fox/Buddy/Bogdan very much. Buddy though came as a result of a trade which was panned at the time for us needing more. Fox, was a great pick, but without belittling it too much, I thought was a consensus, more obvious pick. Bogdan was the result of a good trade. Still, the questionable of the last 3 odd years reigns over that for me in terms of feeling secure with the FO
 
Hansel

Hansel

Bench
#434
#434
It the meanwhile, Doncic-less European champion Slovenia didn't even qualify for the next Basketball World Cup.
One among Montenegro, Latvia and Ukraine is going to be in instead.
Just a coincidence.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#435
#435
Hansel said:
It the meanwhile, Doncic-less European champion Slovenia didn't even qualify for the next Basketball World Cup.
One among Montenegro, Latvia and Ukraine is going to be in instead.
Just a coincidence.
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Why wasn't Doncic playing? Was he off eating cheeseburgers and candy again? He needs to pull himself away from those stands before he flames out of the NBA, he's already struggling to produce. Or some other deluded nonsense.
 
J

Joshoua

All-Star
#436
#436
KingsFanSince85 said:
I never put caps or restrictions on him in terms of stats/numbers. But I do think his potential and ceiling is lower than Bagley's. And since he's played pro ball since he was 13, I think he's a lot closer to his ceiling than Bagley is to his. Ultimately, I believe both are going to be all-star caliber players for a long time. Which one is better in the long term and a better fit is still up for debate and won't be decided anytime soon.

Regarding the taking the ball out of Fox's hands, having an opinion against that is fine. But there is some merit to the idea whether you agree with it or not.

IMO, it's not about taking the ball out of Fox hands sometimes and more about having too many ball dominant players for the style of offense the KINGS want to run. The Warriors largely have unselfish players so it hasn't been a problem for them, although they had to make adjustments when KD came on board. The other examples you provided don't exactly run a similar ball sharing offense. So not a good comparison. The KINGS need the ball in FOX's hands to push it on the break. Beyond that, it's supposed to be shared.
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Adding Luka doesn’t make us have too many ball dominate players especially when none of them are all stars. We’d have Luka/Bogie and fox as ball handlers 2 being elite shooters and pick and roll players.

I don’t think Bagley has a higher ceiling yes he’s athletic but Luka is not some dud athlete. Luka can and will get his body in shape which will help his game and he’ll get more comfortable with the nba game. He’s proving to be a 20ppg player posing within the offense at 4apg that will rise. 2-3 years we could be talking about a 23/8/6 guy and there was a star a saw the other day that Luka is one of the top scorers in crunch time. He has franchise potential which I don’t see in Bagley or Ayton/Young for that matter. The way the game is played favors wings vs guys like Bagley too. It’s just harder for post players to make as big an impact as a wing unless that guy is just pure dominat like Embiid/AD
 
sono

sono

Starter
#440
#440
Joshoua said:
He probably had plans of giving up burgers till he found out how easy it is to score over here compared to europeague. Hasn’t even started to get superstar calls yet
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... or hasn't even warmed up yet. It's scary to think how he would perform, when he gets into the shape the way he produces right now on the court with his baby fat and all those cheeseburgers and bags of chips on his belly.

Jury is still out on them, who will be better in a few years. Still, I don't like this higher ceiling crap from our FO when they pick their draft picks specially in the 1st round. I rather go for the most NBA ready prospects, just the odds are better not picking up busts.
 
rosa u podne

rosa u podne

Bench
#445
#445
twslam07 said:
Thought I would post the RPM stat for all rookies here. The first table is sorted by RPM and the second table is sorted by Wins (which favors players who play more minutes).

RPM Rank
View attachment 8540

Wins Rank
View attachment 8541
Click to expand...
Well, I am considering starting a thread Michal Bridges vs Bagley ;)

Seriously, Michal was my favorite before the draft. However, I don't want to discuss it next 3 years, before it becomes clear who is better player.
 
J

Joshoua

All-Star
#447
#447
Agent23 said:
So when Luka plays bad, am I allowed to say thank god we drafted Bagley or is that only allowed when Luka has a couple highlights and all of you swoon over him and lament about how you wish the Kings drafted him. Just curious.
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You must’ve been saving this since June huh. Couple of highlights ok
 
Hansel

Hansel

Bench
#448
#448
Agent23 said:
So when Luka plays bad, am I allowed to say thank god we drafted Bagley or is that only allowed when Luka has a couple highlights and all of you swoon over him and lament about how you wish the Kings drafted him. Just curious.
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You are allowed to be happy we pass on Doncic when Luka plays bad, not everyone understands this game.
I don't wanna be disrespectful, trust me. But... If you resume Doncic talents in "couple of highlights" what else I can do?
It's wrong to swoon over Luka for NBA regular season highlights, swoon over him for everything he achieved in his career in bigger stages than rs.
As I said before, I'm not impressed by his NBA first two months. I'm just glad everyone sees what was already taken for granted for me.

Agent23 said:
Helllooo, the NBA is filled with freak athletes, especially at the guard and wing positions. He’ll be clamped and abused on a nightly basis. He won’t be playing the Beijing Ducks every night lol.
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How's it going? Looks like he's the guy who's abusing opponents on nightly basis.
 
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J

Joshoua

All-Star
#449
#449
Hansel said:
You are allowed to be happy we pass on Doncic when Luka plays bad, not everyone understands this game.
I don't wanna be disrespectful, trust me. But... If you resume Doncic talents in "couple of highlights" what else I can do?
It's wrong to swoon over Luka for NBA regular season highlights, swoon over him for everything he achieve in his career in bigger stages.
As I said before, I'm not impressed by his NBA first two months. I'm just glad everyone sees what was already taken for granted for me.


How's it going? Looks like he's the guy who's abusing opponents on nightly basis.
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“Couple of highlights” made me laugh and the “Beijing Ducks” comment didn’t age well
 
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