Hardly a concept that was originated by Stevens, though: "point guard" didn't really exist as a notion until the sixties. I think it may have first been coined because of the West/Goodrich lakers.
Luka Doncic (the 'LET'S RE-LITIGATE THE PICK UNTO PERPETUITY~!' thread)
- Thread starter Hansel
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Just using him as an example since he’s an elite coach
Except no matter how much you say it, he's not a 4. He doesn't need to be a 4 with DeAndre Jordan on the floor. You know the same DeAndre Jordan that is a monster rebounder with the second highest DRB% in the entire league? You think it's possible that Jordan may be taking 1-2 rebounds a game away from Luka? You cherry picked a stat that Luka has a low rebounding percentage for a PF and then fail to mentioned that he's playing alongside one of the best rebounders of the past decade.
The thing about these "advanced stats" is that a lot of them seem to exist for the sole purpose of internet guys to sort thru until they find one that fits they're argument on a particular player or team. If you sift thru enough of them you'll always find something to support your cause. 19.5, 6.5, and 4.5 are great numbers for a rookie with solid field goal percentages, there are no two ways about it they just are
I could give a damn about REB% and USG%. Luka is a very good basketball player with excellent numbers for a rookie. He's not Lebron but nobody ever said he was. He's probably going to win ROY and he's going to be a future all star. I don't need advanced metrics to tell me that, it's called the "eye test" and just in general knowing basketball. He's a winner that makes other players better (source: common sense)
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There’s literally a video of Jordan going out of his way to steal a rebound from Luka and I’ve seen games where Luka let’s DJ get the board now. The rebound % is nonsense like you say
CelticsFan
Bench
Just to clarify Stevens comment since it was brought up
"I don’t have the five positions anymore," Celtics coach Brad Stevens said, per Kareem Copeland of the Associated Press. "It may be as simple as three positions now, where you’re either a ball-handler, a wing or a big.
I only clarify because some people on this site think it’s bad to have multiple ball handlers
Hansel
Bench
Some people are confusing ball handlers with ball hogs I guess.
You can't get too many ball handlers, too many shooters, etc etc.
The problem comes out when a player needs to handle the ball to be efficient.
In the best basketball school in the world (ex-Jugo) there are no roles until kids are 14-15.
Everyone has to learn how to dribble, to shoot, to pass, to rebound, etc etc.
That's why lots of the bigs from those countries are usually so skilled for the role (Jokic is the perfect example in this NBA era).
Doncic is a great ball handler, but he knows how to play away from the ball as well.
Serbia plays with Teodosic, Bogdanovic, Kalinic, Bjelica and Jokic on the court together.
Everyone can shoot, everyone can pass, everyone can dribble, everyone is efficient on and off the ball.
You can't get too many ball handlers, too many shooters, etc etc.
The problem comes out when a player needs to handle the ball to be efficient.
In the best basketball school in the world (ex-Jugo) there are no roles until kids are 14-15.
Everyone has to learn how to dribble, to shoot, to pass, to rebound, etc etc.
That's why lots of the bigs from those countries are usually so skilled for the role (Jokic is the perfect example in this NBA era).
Doncic is a great ball handler, but he knows how to play away from the ball as well.
Serbia plays with Teodosic, Bogdanovic, Kalinic, Bjelica and Jokic on the court together.
Everyone can shoot, everyone can pass, everyone can dribble, everyone is efficient on and off the ball.
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Love it. Never change from living in the dark with your eyes closed shut.
It's called braille man.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Bagley, second worst RPM in the league. But still, those critical of what they’ve seen have no eye for talent.
I hope he’s good, I don’t root against him at all. I don’t like crying over spilt milk. I just don’t want to resent the GM and have faith in his moves (and thus call for change IF this stands, as a crucial decision)
I hope he’s good, I don’t root against him at all. I don’t like crying over spilt milk. I just don’t want to resent the GM and have faith in his moves (and thus call for change IF this stands, as a crucial decision)
It is. You may want to do your own research rather than just make snarky remarks without much to back it up. When taken into account of minutes play, Bagley rank 6th among rookie in rebounding rate. Also, with regard to that RPM that Kingsfans23, a little context is needed. For example, Skal has a better RPM at -1.83 than Larmarcus Aldridge at -2.54.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
The only thing I'm taking away from this entire 13 page thread is that Skal>>>LMA
You DON'T like crying over spilt milk?!? You've been shedding copious tears on a daily basis. I'd hate to see what would happen if you did enjoy it.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
All in the context of FO evaluation. The issue 100% isn’t me accepting Bagley and moving forward. Summer comes and a FO move occurs I’d never speak of it again.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
He did. That’s the stuff that we can have some hope for
White_Chocolate
Starter
SLAB
Hall of Famer
He brought it tonight. I’m not gonna shoot down when he’s doing well.
Indeed and Bagley needs to do it again next game and then again in one of the next few games after that. He doesn't have to be great every night but you at least need to show flashes and start upping the consistency. Rookies are going to have their ups and down for sure. Luka was terrible tonight and so far it looks like every 3 or 4 games he has a bad one but I'd say he's been good in about 65-70% of his games and that's impressive for a rookie.
I wouldn’t say flat out sucked and he somehow was the only player on Dallas with a posture +/-
By his own standard he sucked. 6 of 20 sucks. He makes 3 or 4 more shots like he normally does and it's a different game. Not the end of the world and not going to kill you to admit Luka had a bad game.
Kangztillidie
Bench
Luka had a HORRIBLE game. 6/20 is rookie mode and pretty ridiculous at that. All it shows is that he has the greenest of green lights to make all the mistakes and have all the freedom he wants. You cant compare any rookie to him other than those with the same green light. Ayton, Young and Doncic all have the same freedom to explore the best and worst of their talents this year.
It's honestly too bad this thread still exists. Its biased 100%. Doncic has been able to do whatever he wants all year and Bagley has been the victim of the end of a rebuild into ascension toward relevancy/work toward your spot young fella. The Mavs, the Hawks and the Suns are still mired in the depths or the beginnings of a rebuild. The Kings arent.
This thread has gotten pretty sad. Nothing is going to change about the players or the team they are on. Nothing is going to change about the Kings or their front office as things are headed in the right direction.
Cheer for the team if that is why you are here. Otherwise, I got a franchise base that is willing to absorb you.
It's honestly too bad this thread still exists. Its biased 100%. Doncic has been able to do whatever he wants all year and Bagley has been the victim of the end of a rebuild into ascension toward relevancy/work toward your spot young fella. The Mavs, the Hawks and the Suns are still mired in the depths or the beginnings of a rebuild. The Kings arent.
This thread has gotten pretty sad. Nothing is going to change about the players or the team they are on. Nothing is going to change about the Kings or their front office as things are headed in the right direction.
Cheer for the team if that is why you are here. Otherwise, I got a franchise base that is willing to absorb you.
Are they? The average experience of the Mavericks, among the players that have played at least 100 minutes this season, is 4.5 years. The average experience of the Kings, among similarly qualified players, is 1.9. I'm not sure by what metric you can say that the Mavericks are clearly in the midst of a reboot, in a way that the Kings are not.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
On another forum they are doing the yearly top 25 trade value in the league, and some are having Doncic top 5.
This perception better not continue
This perception better not continue
Kangztillidie
Bench
Their current record as well as the twilight of zzzzDirk. They are trying to go younger. Jordan isnt helping that tho.
Sac.1989
Starter
Let them, who cares.
End of the day we are riding with Bagley and the sum of our parts is why we didnt go with Doncic. I can see our logic and its fine. Plug Bogdan into the starting SF position and you will have the same offensive structure that everyone who wanted Doncic here is pining for.
Sure Bogan isnt Doncic, but he really isnt that far off and right now, he's much more consistent.
They're all of a game and a half behind Sacramento. And, if you're going to count Nowitzki (I didn't), then you have to also count Randolph and Koufos for the Kings.
Tomorrow is Thanksgiving. Please, spend some time with family and loved ones, eat a lot of turkey and stuffing and potatoes and cranberry (or whatever it is you love to eat), soak up all the happiness and joy that you can find, and spend the whole day not even *thinking* about who the Kings drafted in 2018.
I imagine that Cuban is not the sort who is going to tolerate a "process" or even just multiple lottery years in a row. They got their guy and are going to run with him. The question is will he be and their ability to attract free agents be enough? It kind of remains to be seen, most teams that rebuild on the fly wind up also-rans at best and the LOLKangz at worst. I feel like they are short and may need one more high lotto pick to get back.
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