Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)

[sactowndog]

He is more of a cross between Gordon Hayward and Lonzo Ball IMHO.

He will be a sure fire high level starter for many, many years. He will be an All star level player. Him being a franchise level player is hard to predict though.

Ball has way more length and I would guess more lateral quickness.

 

[ockingsfan]

Ball has way more length and I would guess more lateral quickness.

I was referring more to Doncic being similar to Ball in court vision and passing.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Unless he's significantly overweight, any significant athletic improvement other than strength and stamina ain't happening. I don't see anything slightly resembling the Pillsbury Doughboy with him, so I remain very skeptical about the belief that Doncic will become an above average NBA athlete, no matter what athletic trainer or training he gets.

I would anticipate skill improvement to occur, however, especially because he does have a high BBIQ. To what extent his skill improvement can compensate for his athletic mediocrity (by NBA standards) is the question for me.

There is a lot more to physical training than just strength and stamina. There are programs that exist to specifically target fast twitch muscle fibers, if that's what one's goal is. You are selling the field of physical training very short. Feel free to do some research, it's there for anyone that's interested. Like I said earlier though, he won't become a LeBron level athlete but to say that his athletic ability won't improve at 19 years old is incorrect.

Look at Ron Artest for example. The guy was built like a Mack truck, but I wouldn't say he was all that athletic. At one point before his career melted away he was primed to be one of the best 2 way players in the league. I'm also one that's willing to wait to hear some actual facts of how quick or slow Luka is. It could be that he just prefers to play that way and that he is more athletic than he looks. He's not Bigfoot out there. The Kings would certainly be able to assist in making Luka faster, stronger, and quicker on the court.

 

[funkykingston]

Ball has way more length and I would guess more lateral quickness.

Way more length? Ball is 6'6" with a 6'9" wingspan. Unless Luka has a surprisingly short wingspan compared to his height (it's estimated to be 6'11") then he's the longer of the two.

 

[The Effort Police]

While we're on the subject of Hayward, when he was coming out of Butler he was considered a questionable athlete (albeit probably still moreso than Doncic, first step particularly), a few years in with Utah I heard him getting called "sneaky" athletic, and nowadays he's considered a fairly athletic wing.

I don't get this. Doncic and Ayton are the 1A and 1B prospects of this draft. Considering the fact that we've picked Jimmer, Papagiannis, Stauskas, and Jason Thompson in the past decade, I figured we as a whole would be more adverse to reaching.

 

[jcwkings]

Yeah my assessment is basically quick twitch explosiveness. And yes McLemore is a plus NBA athlete. Doncic will be a below average athlete on the wing. No reason to over complicate this portion of the evaluation process as it's a pretty simple one.

No it's not because quick twitch explosion is obviously desirable but the NBA has turned into a league where skill and basketball IQ are way more important than being an explosive leaper. Doncic 's skill and basketball IQ is at a special level for a 19 year old. The view that he is a terrible athlete are just flat wrong for many reasons. Good luck finding an elite athete by your standards with the feel for the game that Doncic has, LeBron ain't walking through that door.

 

[Joshoua]

I have heard that as well. But nothing official.

I don’t have the link now but I remember seeing that being said as his wingspan

 

[roasthawg]

No it's not because quick twitch explosion is obviously desirable but the NBA has turned into a league where skill and basketball IQ are way more important than being an explosive leaper. Doncic 's skill and basketball IQ is at a special level for a 19 year old. The view that he is a terrible athlete are just flat wrong for many reasons. Good luck finding an elite athete by your standards with the feel for the game that Doncic has, LeBron ain't walking through that door.

Yeah it's obvious we're not drafting LeBron at #2 this year. I feel like the Luka fans here can't even admit that he's gonna be limited in the NBA by lack of elite athleticism. Thought that was pretty obvious. With his size and skill level he would literally be LeBron if he was an elite athlete too.

It's not my standards, it's NBA standards. Luka will be a sub par athlete on the wing in the NBA. Debating that is crazy because as I said the rest of his game profiles as LeBron lol. Seems to me like we're looking at a hayward or ginobli and like I said that's good enough for me at #2. Only guy I'm possibly putting over him (aside from Ayton) is mpj.

 

[sactowndog]

Way more length? Ball is 6'6" with a 6'9" wingspan. Unless Luka has a surprisingly short wingspan compared to his height (it's estimated to be 6'11") then he's the longer of the two.

My bad did a quick search and got 7’ for Ball.

 

[KingsSelecao]

Im cool with Doncic at 2. I worry he could end up Gordon Hayward levels of effectiveness (not equipped to carry a team thru the west) and end up trapping the franchise between a rock and a hard place the way Hayward did Utah. I also worry they could be passing on greater two-way talents. IMO the kings can use all the help they can get, not just on offense. It'd be a good show tho.

The qyualifying of competition levels going on in this thread is equal parts nauseating and hilarious..What about the competition Antetokounmpo faced? Am i to extrapolate that Doncic will perform remotely as well as giannis cuz he was primed and successful vs better competition ? Is that how this works?

A vast majority of the greatest basketball players who ever lived went to High school in the US, people taking cheapshots at these kids most likely are basing their opinions on highlight video's and speak/post like they've watchged a bunch of their games, when clearly they dont and are blatantly perpetuating false narratives ... International players across the globe enroll in thedse schools in order to test their mettle vs the top competition in their age group. Team USA dominates the youth levels even more than the senior one, IIRC the team usa U16 squad has still never lost a game.

Lastly, far too much importance is placed on the past, the draft is about the future. The NBA is an entirely different animal, great talentgs get chewed up and spit out in quick succession.

Luka will not carry any team. Regardless of who drafts him. He will be a very good player. An Alpha Dog, primary scorer. He first had to shoot better to begin with? I don’t see it. I see Gordon Hayward with better passing ability. I don’t see James Harden.

 

[KingsSelecao]

This is false. He’s 19. With training, he could become a lot quicker, stronger, and explosive. Athleticism is a measure of hard work, just like everything else.

Actually, coming from someone in the medical field.
You are wrong. He has an athletic ceiling and his body type will dictate how fast or strong he can become. I am a Registered PT. Sir, you are wrong as the day is long. He

 

[Hansel]

Game1 of the semifinals, Real Madrid won 88-70.
Doncic 4 pts (2/7 fg) 4 rbs 7 ast 3 stl 2 to.
Let me take some pop corn now...

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Many of these kids are between 19 and 21 years old yet I'm reading a lot of absolutes. None of these future draft picks are finished products. Far from it.

 

[gunks]

Game1 of the semifinals, Real Madrid won 88-70.
Doncic 4 pts (2/7 fg) 4 rbs 7 ast 3 stl 2 to.
Let me take some pop corn now...

Ew.

I've been leaning towards Doncic but that is not a comely stat-line! Why, it's borderline Porter Jr-esque (besides the assists)!

 

[VF21]

MOD NOTE: I moved the recent sub-text discussion of Michael Porter into the Michael Porter thread.

 

[The_Jamal]

No it's not because quick twitch explosion is obviously desirable but the NBA has turned into a league where skill and basketball IQ are way more important than being an explosive leaper. Doncic 's skill and basketball IQ is at a special level for a 19 year old. The view that he is a terrible athlete are just flat wrong for many reasons. Good luck finding an elite athete by your standards with the feel for the game that Doncic has, LeBron ain't walking through that door.

This made me crack up. Think people are really underestimating the level Doncic is playing at as a 19 year old and how advanced he is in his skill-set at such a young age. I just don't know if we've ever seen it before in a prospect.

 

[sterö]

Actually, coming from someone in the medical field.
You are wrong. He has an athletic ceiling and his body type will dictate how fast or strong he can become. I am a Registered PT. Sir, you are wrong as the day is long. He

And how do you know where his ceiling is and how far he is from reaching it? Have you trained with him?

 

[Dime Dropper]

Actually, coming from someone in the medical field.
You are wrong. He has an athletic ceiling and his body type will dictate how fast or strong he can become. I am a Registered PT. Sir, you are wrong as the day is long. He

He's not suggesting Doncic has an unlimited ceiling, he's saying that his athletic ability isn't maxed out yet. That much is pretty obvious from looking at him. Looks like you are picking on his last sentence, which clearly wasn't the salient point.

I'm in the gym regularly, I'm well aware how it works. Doncic is not going to be a freak athlete, but he's already faster than most guys his size (wait and see) and he can definitely get stronger and more explosive. If you're a PT, I'm going to assume you'll agree with that much.

 

[Joshoua]

After we draft Luka Vlade should demand he doesn’t touch a basketball till training camp. Kids been playing nonstop for too long man

 

[Hansel]

Is athleticism so important by the way? Just asking, I still see Ginobili kicks ass at 40 yo.

Of course, I'd rather have both but I care about skillset first when I'm scouting a player.

 

[Gguod]

If I could figure out who he would defend I would agree... I was all in on Doncic until I watched the Euroleague Semi’s and Final and started to rethink my position.

He doesn’t appear quick enough to defend guards nor long enough to defend forwards. For that reason, I’m just not sold. I do find it interesting the pro Doncic people keep posting links questioning Bagley’s length (+1) when Doncic might have a similar or greater problem.

Its pretty easy, he could defend the worst of the opponents three wings on the court. Having Bagley or Ayton would be a much bigger defensive problem since its a lot harder to hide centers. If you are concerned about defence, you should cross Bagley and Ayton off your list before Doncic

 

[Ozymandias]

Luka will not carry any team. Regardless of who drafts him. He will be a very good player. An Alpha Dog, primary scorer. He first had to shoot better to begin with? I don’t see it. I see Gordon Hayward with better passing ability. I don’t see James Harden.

The Hayward scenario is real. If Doncic is good enough to ge them to the playoffs but not any further, and then demand 35mil a year, the kings are gonna be stuck between hell and high water.

Is athleticism so important by the way? Just asking, I still see Ginobili kicks ass at 40 yo.

Of course, I'd rather have both but I care about skillset first when I'm scouting a player.

Of course it is. You sound heavily biased. Basketball isn't just offense, i swear some of y'all would love enes kanter he's skilled and efficient and cant defend and paid handsomely.

To be a decent defender in the nba it requires a great deal of athleticism, especially for a starter..

Doncic is gonna be at SF matching up with KD and Paul George, Kahwi etc, he's gonna be at a severe athletic disadvantage attempting to check them. Brandon Ingram, ina few years Doncic wont be able to provide much resistance vs him either. Josh Jackson is a complete nightmare matchup for Luka.........

Did Utah make the wrong choice of the more Athletic Gobert over the more skilled kanter?

 

[Gguod]

The Hayward scenario is real. If Doncic is good enough to ge them to the playoffs but not any further, and then demand 35mil a year, the kings are gonna be stuck between hell and high water.

Better passing Hayward is a great player. More valuable than little worse Karl-Anthony Towns (which seems to be a reasonable good scenario for Ayton).

Doncic is gonna be at SF matching up with KD and Paul George, Kahwi etc, he's gonna be at a severe athletic disadvantage attempting to check them. Brandon Ingram, ina few years Doncic wont be able to provide much resistance vs him either. Josh Jackson is a complete nightmare matchup for Luka.........

No he is not. Why would he be? One thing people dont always understand is that there aren't strict positions anymore. There are no more Sg, Sf and Pf. Those are usually just wings. 6'5-6'9 versatile players. If we draft Doncic, we sure as hell wont put him defending Lebron, Kd and PG. We have to get a guy to take that matchup and start him as "pf".

Did Utah make the wrong choice of the more Athletic Gobert over the more skilled kanter?

No but thats because bad defending big men in general are pretty worthless. One reason to be cautious with Ayton or Bagley. Offense with Ayton, Fox and three shooters could be great but defense with Ayton would most likely suck because non defending centers will always get destroyed

 

[burner account]

Who are you and how do you have access to this data? Thanks.

Doncic burner account? no , to obvious?

I been following him since he was 13 (already he was seen as the prodigy) and this date is available to everybody.
He´s wingspan is 6-11 reportedly but nothinng official..

https://elpais.com/deportes/2017/02/15/actualidad/1487163390_674923.html

Height wise he may well be 6-9.In the interview for leading Spanish newspaper befor his 18 birthday he said that he was 202 cm(6-7.5)without shoes and he thinks that he will grow a little bit more.No reason to lie , its not like interview for El Pais would help his draft stock.And this was more then year ago. Even if he didn´t grow anything since he is 6-8 + , much bigger then people realize.

One thing to add about his physical attributes. is that he has those Grant Hill huge hands , he palms the ball whit easy and often as product of that he carries the ball when dribling but he does it Harden like so it´s not called often.It helps with deflections and rebounds also.

He has good physical profile to be a 6-9 bully with guard skill , yust needs to get on that Oladipo diet.

He improved his vertical by 2 inches yust in few weeks working in P3 , since then without time to go back and time for recovery he detrited.If you look his eurobasket highlights he looks more athletic then in Aprile,May (80 + games , and not beaing able to work individually on his body).

Not that he will become LBJ but there is definitely another gear.For someone is weird that organisation like Real Madrid wouldun´t put more emphasis on that but its diffrent mentality.He˙s spending more time in video room watching euroleague opponents then working in gym because for Madrid the most important thing is Madrid and there not in business of developing players for nba.

Also hard to compare him with Hayward.Gordon year older as sophomore in Butler was a 207 lbs , well short of Doncic mass that his carring , his profile is closer to Carmelo/Joe Johnson when ther were 18/19 year old,yes inter racial comparision are possible What´s not possible is to find the 18 year old whit that amount of skill,moves,footwork,IQ.Players that smart at advance age(Harden,Curry)showed ability to improve on faster level then most player,because the game comes already so easy for them. Luka physical improvement over next few years will determine what level of player he can be , all star or something more special.And wide shoulders like i am not sure will it help him like Hardens huge chest but sometimes you can see in pick and roll situation him putting opoppents in jail and i guess that wide framer comes handy.

Ideally you will have a player who will be able to punish smaller guards and kill forwards on picks(not to many 6-8 guys with that ability) his iso scoring especially in switching will be determand by his outside shoot , stepback is good , but it can be much better.Combine with his passion for the game and his motor , you would bet on him maximizing his potential.

I would love to see that on Sacramento , Fox and him are polar opposite and it would benefit both of them.

 

[Mass]

Did Utah make the wrong choice of the more Athletic Gobert over the more skilled kanter?

Did Sacramento make the right choice of the more athletic McLemore over the more skilled McCollum?

 

[Dime Dropper]

Did Sacramento make the right choice of the more athletic McLemore over the more skilled McCollum?

Thank you for pointing out how disingenious the post you quoted was. Talk about cherry-picking examples to suit a viewpoint.

 

[jcwkings]

The Hayward scenario is real. If Doncic is good enough to ge them to the playoffs but not any further, and then demand 35mil a year, the kings are gonna be stuck between hell and high water.

Of course it is. You sound heavily biased. Basketball isn't just offense, i swear some of y'all would love enes kanter he's skilled and efficient and cant defend and paid handsomely.

To be a decent defender in the nba it requires a great deal of athleticism, especially for a starter..

Doncic is gonna be at SF matching up with KD and Paul George, Kahwi etc, he's gonna be at a severe athletic disadvantage attempting to check them. Brandon Ingram, ina few years Doncic wont be able to provide much resistance vs him either. Josh Jackson is a complete nightmare matchup for Luka.........

Did Utah make the wrong choice of the more Athletic Gobert over the more skilled kanter?

You can become a solid defender if you aren't the greatest athlete. Defense is 70% awareness, knowing the tendencies of the player your guarding, reading what the offensive team is trying to do, all stuff that is tied to basketball IQ. Doncic also has a big frame to add strength to, I don't think he will be bullied by wings once he fills out. He's probably gonna struggle laterally, which will come into play if he gets switched onto guards but you're drafting him for the hope his style of play is the kind that can change the culture of a team. Tim Duncan, Marc Gasol, Shane Battier were all great defenders but not great athletes, they just understand the game at a high level. Heck Draymond Green isn't a great athlete and he is probably the best defensive player in the league right now just because he reads the game and gives effort and an astounding level.

 

[sactowndog]

This made me crack up. Think people are really underestimating the level Doncic is playing at as a 19 year old and how advanced he is in his skill-set at such a young age. I just don't know if we've ever seen it before in a prospect.

I don’t think anyone is discounting it. But it cuts 2 ways. Is he using that skill set to get his shot off at the Euro level because he isn’t athletic enough to create space without it?

Let me use Fox as an example. He has limited offensive skills but he can create space by blowing by people and the quickly stopping for his shot.

I don’t remember Luka blowing by people in Europe. No granted it’s 2 Games and not definitive that he can’t but if I’m the Kings I looking for some evidence he can create space against Euro players without relying on his step back.

 

[sactowndog]

You can become a solid defender if you aren't the greatest athlete. Defense is 70% awareness, knowing the tendencies of the player your guarding, reading what the offensive team is trying to do, all stuff that is tied to basketball IQ. Doncic also has a big frame to add strength to, I don't think he will be bullied by wings once he fills out. He's probably gonna struggle laterally, which will come into play if he gets switched onto guards but you're drafting him for the hope his style of play is the kind that can change the culture of a team. Tim Duncan, Marc Gasol, Shane Battier were all great defenders but not great athletes, they just understand the game at a high level. Heck Draymond Green isn't a great athlete and he is probably the best defensive player in the league right now just because he reads the game and gives effort and an astounding level.

Draymond also has a 7” 1’ wingspan and a 8’10” standing reach. You can compensate for foot speed with length. Bogdan has okay footspeed but great length so you could see he can defend an NBA guard.

Luka Doncic does not have great length for an NBA forward. He had average to poor length.

 

[sactowndog]

Doncic burner account? no , to obvious?

I been following him since he was 13 (already he was seen as the prodigy) and this date is available toeverybody.
He´swingspan is 6-11 reportedly but nothinng official..

https://elpais.com/deportes/2017/02/15/actualidad/1487163390_674923.html

Height wise he may well be 6-9.In the interview for leading Spanish newspaper befor his 18 birthday he said that he was 202 cm(6-7.5)without shoes and he thinks that he will grow a little bit more.No reason to lie , its not like interview for El Pais would help his draft stock.And this was more then year ago. Even if he didn´t grow anything since he is 6-8 + , much bigger then people realize.

One thing to add about his physical attributes. is that he has those Grant Hill huge hands , he palms the ball whit easy and often as product of that he carries the ball when dribling but he does it Harden like so it´s not called often.It helps with deflections and rebounds also.

He has good physical profile to be a 6-9 bully with guard skill , yust needs to get on that Oladipo diet.

He improved his vertical by 2 inches yust in few weeks working in P3 , since then without time to go back and time for recovery he detrited.Ifyou look his eurobasket highlights he looks more athletic then in Aprile,May (80 + games , and not beaing able to work individually on his body).

Not that he will become LBJ but there is definitely another gear.For someone is weird that organisation like Real Madrid wouldun´t put more emphasis on that but its diffrent mentality.He˙s spending more time in video room watching euroleague opponents then working in gym because for Madrid the most important thing is Madrid and there not in business of developing players for nba.

Also hard to compare him with Hayward.Gordon year older as sophomore in Butler was a 207 lbs , well short of Doncic mass that his carring , his profile is closer to Carmelo/Joe Johnson when ther were 18/19 year old,yes inter racial comparision are possible What´snot possible is to find the 18 year old whit that amount of skill,moves,footwork,IQ.Players that smart at advance age(Harden,Curry)showed ability to improve on faster level then most player,because the game comes already so easy for them. Luka physical improvement over next few years will determine what level of player he can be , all star or something more special.And wide shoulders like i am not sure will it help him like Hardens huge chest but sometimes you can see in pick and roll situation him putting opoppents in jail and i guess that wide framer comes handy.

Ideally you will have a player who will be able to punish smaller guards and kill forwards on picks(not to many 6-8 guys with that ability) his iso scoring especially in switching will be determand by his outside shoot , stepback is good , but it can be much better.Combine with his passion for the game and his motor , you would bet on him maximizing his potential.

I would love to see that on Sacramento , Fox and him are polar opposite and it would benefit both of them.

If he really has a 6’ 11” wingspan, I would fell much better about his chances to defend small forwards. Someone mentioned Carmelo and his wingspan is 7’ and an 8’10” standing reach. But the Kings sure as hell shouldn’t take someone’s word for it. I would want clear documented measurements of his length.