Lets talk Isaiah Thomas..

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm sorry but if you think the Kings should lose even one game then in my eyes you are not a Kings fan. You can talk about it after tha fact, that that loss helps you get a higher draft pick but it better be idle conjecture.

Do you or anyone on here really think that the owner, the F
O, the coach, the players or any one player is tanking you are out of your friggin' mind. Just how would any of them go about it? How do they explain to each other? How do they explain to the NBA? I'm sure it's cool and great good fun to yak about but ........ really? Come on, the only tankers aren here or other blogs like it so don't take up space here trying to make a serious issue of it.

Yeah, that's a little bit outside the lines, and we're going to have to ask you to walk that one back. Or, at the very least, drop it completely. Surely we can be anti-tanking around here, without getting into any of this "No True Scotsman" bull****.

 

[Glenn]

Yeah, that's a little bit outside the lines, and we're going to have to ask you to walk that one back. Or, at the very least, drop it completely. Surely we can be anti-tanking around here, without getting into any of this "No True Scotsman" bull****.

That's OK now that I think of it. pshn80 is a good guy. It's a heat of the moment thing and I accept it as that. I wish rants like that could be stated as opinions.

I think I have done enough as a fan not to react in kind. In other words, he's wrong and I know it.

 

[pshn80]

Yeah, that's a little bit outside the lines, and we're going to have to ask you to walk that one back. Or, at the very least, drop it completely. Surely we can be anti-tanking around here, without getting into any of this "No True Scotsman" bull****.

I agree. I am a little (a lot) dogmatic but I have to admit that that is how I feel about it, so nothing like being honest. And, Glenn, it did sound like I was aiming at you but not so, I, we need good Kings fans like you and I.

As far as I'm concerned tanking does not exist here, it is just talked about here.

 

[Padrino]

whether or not an individual believes that the kings are actually tanking is, in my opinion, irrelevant: 8-19... that's good for 5th worst in the entire nba. 29th in points allowed per game, 22nd in rebounds per game, inefficiency across the roster, woefully thin bench, etc. yes, "work in progress," and all that, but until coach malone is gifted with a bevy of top-flight defensive personnel on the court, expect this team to "tank" in the standings, intentionally or otherwise...

it's another lost season. it was a lost season before it began. that sucks for season ticket holders. that sucks for any kind of ticket holder. but it is what it is. this team needs to improve, and it's unlikely that internal improvement will be enough to significantly impact the win/loss column. this is why i continue to look forward to the 2014 draft, where there is considerable talent available in the first half of the lottery with the potential to make an immediate impact on both sides of the ball...

i remain tremendously skeptical of the notion that rudy gay is the answer, that he is the robin to DMC's batman. simply adding a #2 (and a relatively lightweight, inefficient, "near-all star," at that) to the equation doesn't necessarily lead to any kind of sustained success. "fit" matters. defense matters. just look at the clusterf*** over in brooklyn if you need evidence that name recognition alone isn't worthy of a winning record...

in my estimation, the ideal scenario is that the kings pick in the top-5 where they will likely (for all of the overly-cautious "there are no guarantees" types out there) be able to snag a younger, less expensive, more efficient, and more talented second option than rudy gay, then flip the asset of gay's enormous expiring contract for defensive-minded veterans/rebounders/roleplayers that require few shots to aid in filling out the roster...

if the kings are really lucky, they'll find an answer at starting PG along the way (marcus smart/dante exum in the draft? goran dragic/rajon rondo via trade?), and they'll be able to sew up isaiah thomas to a reasonable deal in a returning role as the team's sixth man. again, these are the components of an ideal scenario. i don't expect all of the pieces to fall so neatly in place. but it's a plan, and one that requires losing a lot of games in the meantime...

personally, i prefer such a plan to the shuffling around of crap defenders year in and year out. i see the draft as a good place to invest in future wins. there are very talented two-way players to be had and, once again, the team's 8-19 record (likely 8-20 after tonight) represents a losing pace in which a top-5 pick is hardly out of the realm of possibility. "tank" or "no tank," kings fans should be prepared for the mathematics of ping pong balls. that doesn't mean they have to like it...

 

[rainmaker]

We're not tanking, we're just not good. Roster doesn't have balance, doesn't have defense, doesn't have enough role players and has too many players overly concerned with one side of the ball.

I don't think we're purposely going for a high pick, what I think is that PDA made some mistakes in July which are causing us to be smack in the middle of the lottery race and devoid of defense at even a below average level. Then PDA pulled off two good talent grabs in DWill and Gay but the roster now has new holes now and just as much unbalance.

Difference between tanking and not being setup to win. We're not setup to win. I do however believe our FO is trying to change this around quickly. That doesn't however mean all their decisions have been the right ones or will be the rights ones.

If anyone thinks we're tanking, I dare you to buy a ticket to a game in the near future and go up to Malone and accuse him of not trying to win games. You'll probably get a response which can't be repeated on a family friendly forum.

I will say however, that a FO can sacrifice the ability to win in the near term in order to have a better roster a year or two down the road and sometimes when you make moves you know it hurts your chances of winning in the present. But that's not tanking. Tanking is making moves/decisions to purposely have a worse record. I don't see that.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

There's a whole lot of demarcation between being "prepared for the mathematics of ping pong balls" and asking the people who have already handed over their money to just, figuratively, suck on it and like it. I don't envy the people running the team, in the sense that they have to at least create the pretense of playing to win. For as much as they may or may not have a plan for the future, they're not going to give ten thousand people (or however many STH's there are) their money back, so they have to do something to placate those people besides offer them promises of pie in the sky.

As far as the plan itself, I'm still holding out hope that we flip Gay before the trade deadline for a shot blocker and/or a starting caliber point guard. In fact, I'd like to try and move Gay and Thomas, once Gay is eligible to be packaged, not because I'm a Thomas "hater," but because I don't believe that he's going to be willing to go back to the bench without causing problems, no matter what point guard we may be able to find ourselves with, and I absolutely do not want him starting. Failing in that, I'm hoping that Gay will decline his option, in hopes of signing a long-term contract somewhere, and that we'll have that salary to offer to someone in free agency. We'll have to overpay someone, of course, because we're the Kings. But, all things being equal, I'd rather overpay for defense.

 

[peacelate]

That argument, however, is just so completely wrong it grates. Ask OKC how tanking worked for them in getting Durant that year. Or Boston how it worked when they were able to trade their pick for Ray Allen, thus setting up the Kevin Garnett trade. Tanking is GREAT. The very best thing you can ever do for your franchise at a certain point in time. It builds dynasties. It gets you Hakeem,and Shaq and Duncan and Lebron. It got us Reke and Cuz. Its great. Its smart. Its just what has to be done.

However, we are no longer at that point in our development. We DID tank. We DID get our star through tanking. Yay tanking! But we already have him, we have a perennial near All Star next to him. And no that is not a reference to anybody 5'9". New coach trying to change culture, emerging star, new arena on the horizon, we just aren't at that tanking spot anymore. Tensions are already high on the team because once again we aren't tanking, we are failing to win. There is a difference. These losses aren't going down easy for anybody except a few fans. These losses are destructive. If there are 10 game to go in the season? Sure, let's tank it out and go get that pick. When there are 55 games left in the season,,no way. It will destroy our morale, damage our relationship with Cuz, ruin whatever culture change the increasingly antagonized coach is aiming for, empty the building back out at a time when enthusiasm should be building, if STOP can get an arena vote on the ballot, damage the hopes of even winning the vote. This is no longer the time nor place for tanking.

The Pacers didn't have to tank and look at where they are at.

 

[Gilles]

Pacers were blessed with drafting two relatively average for their position in the draft guys (and now Stephenson slowly becoming another one), who demonstrated tremendous work ethic with both physical and technical training and massively overachieved their draft slots. It were very slim odds.