lebron or kobe which one?
- Thread starter tyrant
- Start date
i go by how many years youve been in the league. it usually takes 5 years to determine how good you're gona be. some players are late bloomers. kobe wasnt going to get any better after 24-25 years old. if you look at his numbers after his 5th year in the league he averaged 26ppg 5 reb and 5 assists per game. that was 2002. as of 2009 his ppg is a little over 26 and his reb and assists are about the same. now, michael jordan (after his 5th season) averaged 31ppg, 6 reb a game and 5 assists per game. and his career average is what???????? 30ppg!!!! you only get better within your first 5 years. you have to adjust to the talent and skill youre going up against and sometimes that can take a while. but when you finally get there you're there. fyi, you reach your peak at a younger age if you enter the league out of high school rather than coming out of college. how else do you explain a player like KG still averaging 22-10 since age 25.
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but my pick would be kobe. he's better at playing with his back towards the basket and he has a better jumpshot. lebron is just raw power. alot of times he'll just run right over you for an easy two. but if you can stay in front of him you'll force him to have to beat you another way. kobe can do fadeaways/turn arounds and his footwork is jordan-esque.
he was trash when he came into the leauge. but like i said before, 5 years later he got pretty close to what he is now. after his 5th year he averaged 17 ppg and 7 assists per game with the mavericks. in phoenix he's averaging 18 and 11. up 1 point and up 4 in assists. but if i had amare and marion on my team i would average 11 assists a game as well. thats just the result of him having better finishers. but the credit is still given to him. so i kinda see your point. he's still close to nothing in the steals and rebound area. and he is still one of the worst defending point guards in the league. i wouldnt say he's made an incredible leap.
I like the seemingly effortless way Lebron racks up tons of assists and rebounds. Physically, he's a bit, maybe a lot more gifted than Kobe who is better from the free throw line, more pure and consistent clutch deep shooter. Bryant is a superstar, James the same, so I guess it's just a matter of taste and that old father time thing that will get to Kobe before Lebron.
I'd easily take Lebron, even if they were the same age. Kobe's character issues aside, when he was playing 1 on 5 his team didn't even make the playoffs, Lebron's playing 1 on 5 and they made the ECF, not to mention the fact that they had the best record in basketball. Kobe still hasn't shown he can be the 'it' guy on a championship team, and with arguably the best supporting cast in basketball, a Rockets team missing their 2 best players took the Lakers to seven games. Lebron hasn't been the 'it' guy on a championship squad either, but at least he has an excuse.
the cavs have played great team defense. vs the eastern conference the points allowed are lower. could be because the east is the weaker conference. been that way for a very long time. you also factor that they play those teams more than teams in the west. mo williams was great during the regular season. he's played great all the way up until the ECF. credit orlando's defense and mismatches. lakers couldve easily won 70 if they played in the east. aside from that lebron is a great passer, which would put him in a class with magic and larry bird as far as making others around you better. kobe and wade (i would take both ahead of lebron) are the best scorers in the league and kobe is the best closer.
LeBron, LeBron, LeBron, and LeBron. The only people who take Kobe in that situation are seriously, seriously, misguided Laker fans.
I mean, just think of LeBron with the type teammates Kobe has. If you think they are good at playing with the Black"hole" Mamba, think how they'd play with an infinitely better teammate, playmaker, and hustle guy. They wouldn't have all the mental lapses they do now, they'd have much better chemistry, and above all they'd be set for a 6-8 year title run, rather than a 2-3 tops that Kobe has left in him
I mean, just think of LeBron with the type teammates Kobe has. If you think they are good at playing with the Black"hole" Mamba, think how they'd play with an infinitely better teammate, playmaker, and hustle guy. They wouldn't have all the mental lapses they do now, they'd have much better chemistry, and above all they'd be set for a 6-8 year title run, rather than a 2-3 tops that Kobe has left in him
It's nothing short of amazing what Lebron has done in his time in Cleveland with such horrible teams around him. You can talk all you want about Kobe has a purer shot, better footwork whatever, but at the end of the day it is all about production and Lebron no doubt produces better. He is also a better defender IMO. He can defend pretty much all 5 positions very well while still playing great offensively. Although it doesn't matter really in the basketball comparison, he is much more classy and doesn't act like it is a crime every single time a call has been made on him.
The argument for Kobe hinges on two things - people claim that he is a better shooter and that he is more clutch.
It may well be the case that Kobe is the better shooter. But he is not necessarily the better scorer - and certainly not the more efficient scorer. LeBron might not have the pure footwork or shooting ability that Kobe does, but he is still a good shooter and can score in a much more efficient way - by getting to the rim. The drive may not be as pretty as the jumpshot but is far more effective if it can be utilized properly (as can be seen by LeBron's average of 42 points a game this series). The clutch argument has larely been disproven by the stat gurus at 82games.com - simply put LeBron has hit the most game winners in the NBA over the past 2 years and has a far better shooting percentage in clutch situations than Kobe. He also contributes more in areas besides Kobe in these clutch situations - rebounds, assists, steals, etc.
But even if the evidence is ignored, and Kobe is the better scorer and better clutch performer, that hardly makes him the best player overall. Since when was basketball all about scoring? What about rebounding, assists, blocks, steals, team defense, athleticism, speed, power, ability to finish, etc. Aren't these also crucial factors in evaluating the talent of a player? What about the intangibles? Sure Kobe has that killer instinct -that assasin's mentality - but LeBron has admirable qualities of his own - he seems to genuinely embrace his team no matter how undertalented they are and has shown flashes of that same hunger that we see in Kobe.
When analyzed across all areas, it is hard not to come to the conclusion that LeBron has at least equalled and more than likely surpassed Kobe Bryant. Both are legends in the making, but one's flame has the potential to glow brighter while the other's is clearly beginning to dim.
It may well be the case that Kobe is the better shooter. But he is not necessarily the better scorer - and certainly not the more efficient scorer. LeBron might not have the pure footwork or shooting ability that Kobe does, but he is still a good shooter and can score in a much more efficient way - by getting to the rim. The drive may not be as pretty as the jumpshot but is far more effective if it can be utilized properly (as can be seen by LeBron's average of 42 points a game this series). The clutch argument has larely been disproven by the stat gurus at 82games.com - simply put LeBron has hit the most game winners in the NBA over the past 2 years and has a far better shooting percentage in clutch situations than Kobe. He also contributes more in areas besides Kobe in these clutch situations - rebounds, assists, steals, etc.
But even if the evidence is ignored, and Kobe is the better scorer and better clutch performer, that hardly makes him the best player overall. Since when was basketball all about scoring? What about rebounding, assists, blocks, steals, team defense, athleticism, speed, power, ability to finish, etc. Aren't these also crucial factors in evaluating the talent of a player? What about the intangibles? Sure Kobe has that killer instinct -that assasin's mentality - but LeBron has admirable qualities of his own - he seems to genuinely embrace his team no matter how undertalented they are and has shown flashes of that same hunger that we see in Kobe.
When analyzed across all areas, it is hard not to come to the conclusion that LeBron has at least equalled and more than likely surpassed Kobe Bryant. Both are legends in the making, but one's flame has the potential to glow brighter while the other's is clearly beginning to dim.
I can't believe this didn't have a poll attached. 
I've rectified the situation...
And I cast the first vote for Lebron, which should surprise absolutely no one. Aside from my patent dislike of the Brave Little Soldier, there's age and hunger to be considered. Kobe is rapidly approaching the downside of his career. He has the rings, he's had the glory...even if he had to share it with Shaq to be successful thus far.
Lebron, on the other hand, has the drive and the hunger. And he certainly has the abilities. All he needs is a good supporting cast around him, and I actually think Geoff Petrie might be able to do a better job of assembling one than any other GM in the business.
Bring on the King!
I've rectified the situation...And I cast the first vote for Lebron, which should surprise absolutely no one. Aside from my patent dislike of the Brave Little Soldier, there's age and hunger to be considered. Kobe is rapidly approaching the downside of his career. He has the rings, he's had the glory...even if he had to share it with Shaq to be successful thus far.
Lebron, on the other hand, has the drive and the hunger. And he certainly has the abilities. All he needs is a good supporting cast around him, and I actually think Geoff Petrie might be able to do a better job of assembling one than any other GM in the business.
Bring on the King!
Currently, Kobe. He has 3 rings. He's been to the finals 5 times and is about to go a 6th. He involves his teammates more and finishes games better than Lebron. Right now he has scoreboard.
P.S. Maybe I should have added an addendum to my post. I thought I made it clear that CURRENTLY, I'd take Kobe. In the near future, Lebron definitely has the upper hand.
P.S. Maybe I should have added an addendum to my post. I thought I made it clear that CURRENTLY, I'd take Kobe. In the near future, Lebron definitely has the upper hand.
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I already commented earlier in the thread but now with poll and my vote, here's more along the lines of psychological profile of the two superstars.
Lebron is way more mature, likable, grounded and always has been than Kobe - although after he got out of his rape charge the dude finally seemed to wise up. Kobe spent years in the NBA (age 18-26 or so) making it a Kobe "me-me" fest. The rift with Shaq, butting heads with Coach Jackson, constant whining over every single foul call and on and on. Again, he's finally gotten better on most of it but Lebron almost never complains over a call (heck, even badarse Ron Artest rarely complains). Kobe just seemed so spoiled from day one and it lasted damn near a decade. While Lebron as a far more talented NBA teen than Kobe at same age acted like he was not needing or expecting to be anointed and constantly worshiped. Considering that there's so few "superstars" in the league (really just three); Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade - with maybe place votes for a Garnet, Pierce Yao, Dirk, Duncan, Howard - I'd be hard pressed to select Bryant over Wade.
Lebron is way more mature, likable, grounded and always has been than Kobe - although after he got out of his rape charge the dude finally seemed to wise up. Kobe spent years in the NBA (age 18-26 or so) making it a Kobe "me-me" fest. The rift with Shaq, butting heads with Coach Jackson, constant whining over every single foul call and on and on. Again, he's finally gotten better on most of it but Lebron almost never complains over a call (heck, even badarse Ron Artest rarely complains). Kobe just seemed so spoiled from day one and it lasted damn near a decade. While Lebron as a far more talented NBA teen than Kobe at same age acted like he was not needing or expecting to be anointed and constantly worshiped. Considering that there's so few "superstars" in the league (really just three); Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade - with maybe place votes for a Garnet, Pierce Yao, Dirk, Duncan, Howard - I'd be hard pressed to select Bryant over Wade.
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For building a team around? Probably LeBron, but I voted Kobe. He's still the more polished competitor, and probably will be for the next couple years.
LeBron is a monster, but I feel like you can still stop him by making him shoot jumpers or miss from the FT line (yeah he's hit some clutch shots this year).
Kobe on the other hand.. doesn't go to the rim as much, but is deadly with just about any jump shot, his % seems to go up in crunch time, and he's a better FT shooter (again, important in the clutch).
LeBron is a monster, but I feel like you can still stop him by making him shoot jumpers or miss from the FT line (yeah he's hit some clutch shots this year).
Kobe on the other hand.. doesn't go to the rim as much, but is deadly with just about any jump shot, his % seems to go up in crunch time, and he's a better FT shooter (again, important in the clutch).