Larry Brown? (merged)

#1
Ailene Voisin: Don't think about it -- call Larry Brown

By Ailene Voisin -- Bee Columnist

Published 2:15 am PDT Wednesday, May 17, 2006

Larry Brown is your guy. End of pursuit. Kings owners and officials can spend the next several days listing criteria and cogitating, can waste weeks interviewing other credible candidates, but there is one answer to the only questions that really matter.

Who is the best available coach?

Who turns this scrimmage into a rout?

Who desperately craves time salvaging his life/career in a rehab center like Arco Arena, that place of group hugs, unconditional love and unfailing support?

This is almost too easy, the answer right there in black and white. Larry Brown. Larry Brown. Larry Brown. Did we mention Larry Brown?

If Geoff Petrie and the Maloofs are intent on pursuing a championship, are confident they can undertake the offseason moves necessary to improve the supporting cast around Ron Artest, Mike Bibby and the emerging Kevin Martin, then one must assume that they already have placed a call to Brown’s agent, Joe Glass.

The initial interview should have been scheduled hours ago. The respective accountants should be swapping offsetting salary figures with the New York Knicks as you sip your morning latte.

The Kings’ medical staff at UC Davis should be sharing pertinent information regarding bladder conditions and reflux – two of Brown’s ailments – with specialists in the Hamptons, where the coach is recovering from his latest procedure.

“We definitely plan to get together and set up some frames of reference, establish some sort or order,” a noncommittal Petrie said Tuesday, seemingly in no rush to judgment, nor particularly keen on Brown. “The main time frame is to get the guy we want, or who we think has the chance of doing the best job. We have a long list to go through.”

This is not a good sign. That list should be short, if a bit of a reach. This is no time to think small town, small time, to become parochial and ignore the world outside the West Coast.

Portland (former home of most Kings basketball personnel) isn’t the only city with talented employees to recruit. New York, for instance, remains both mecca and melting pot. Bill Bradley, Walt Frazier, Willis Reed and Dave DeBusschere once played there. Unfortunately for the departing Brown, Stephon Marbury is taking a more current turn at stardom, and taking the Knicks right down with him.

So why hire Larry in Sacramento? For the same reasons for hiring Larry in Denver, New Jersey, San Antonio, Indianapolis, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Detroit, etc., and we won’t even mention his college visits. And they’re all visits.

Brown and anyone is a two-year marriage at best.

But what a passionate two years! Prospects for a new arena heat up immediately. Before Brown self-destructs one way or another, by word and/or by deed, and sometimes by both,the 65-old-year-year-old New Yorker drives everyone within hearing distance to peak performances. That’s the routine. The locations change, but remarkably, the results remain static: Good players develop into great players (Reggie Miller, Chauncey Billups). Great teams become champions (Detroit Pistons).

The Kings’ ownpoint guard, Bibby, emerged as a surprisingly adequate defender while playing for Brown on the 2003 U.S. Olympic team at the qualifying tournament in Puerto Rico. “If you want to play,” Bibby said at the time, explaining his inordinate number of steals and his enthusiasm for outlet passes and an up-tempo pace, “you have to play defense. And I want to play.”
I
ndeed, until Brown arrived in his hometown and joined general manager Isiah Thomas in what has proven to be a fatal attraction, he was regarded as one of the game’s premier tacticians and perhaps its ultimate teacher. A stickler for fundamentals, and certainly for defense, he consistently extracted near-perfect performances out of participants in an imperfect game.

His issues are more personal, his mere presence an uncensored, uncontrollable force. He says what he wants. He says what he thinks he thinks. He invariably says too much. And as intractable as he is regarding certain players – andhis disapproval of the mercurial Marbury is as intense as it is permanent, tracing back to the Athens Olympics – Brown never has been able to repress his wandering eye.

He negotiated with the Kansas Jayhawks while coaching the Nets. He pursued a Cleveland Cavaliers opening while coaching the Pistons into the NBA Finals. He left a fabulous Pistons squad – a club that epitomizes teamwork and unselfishness, two of his most cherished values – for a Knicks roster that would cause Red Holzman to regurgitate. He just can’t seem to help himself, though for a while, he helps everyone else.

What’s so terrible about that?

What’s the hang-up on longevity, anyway?

Keep it short and sweet. Change the culture around here. Give the man a call.

Link
 

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#2
Can you imagine the field day she'd have with Brown as coach? That's probably why she wants him here.... :)

If Brown does end up coaching the Kings, can you imagine the articles she'd have written if Peja's rippling muscles were still here and he was sitting on the bench for whatever reason? Hoo-boy, those would have been hee-lar-ee-ous!

Seriously, though, she seems to be advocating hiring a "one-and-done" coach who has left his last 2 teams (one of which were the the defending champs the year before who almost repeated) with owner buyouts. Why?
 
#4
So we should a hire a coach that will - at best - stay for two years, could potentially wreck the franchise and ruin team chemistry in the front office and on the floor, who isn't a guarantee of anything but unpredictability... all because he's passionate?

Now that Larry Brown is available, he is probably the favorite to replace Adelman, especially since people have been trying to get him here ever since he left Philadelphia. And it is a move that could potentially turn out to be very advantageous for the Kings. But the downside is waaay to steep, especially for a team that's in as fragile a condition as the Kings are in right now.

Is he going to preach defense? Absolutely. Is he the type of personality the Maloofs are looking for? Probably. Is he worth the risk of losing all the progress the Kings have made in the last eight or nine years? I would say no.
 
#5
Larry Brown is 65, has health issues, commands a high-priced salary, and in the past has left at the drop of a hat. Is this the coach the Kings need to build for the future? But if Aileen Poison likes him, gee I guess it's a done deal:rolleyes:
 
#6
Superman said:
So we should a hire a coach that will - at best - stay for two years, could potentially wreck the franchise and ruin team chemistry in the front office and on the floor, who isn't a guarantee of anything but unpredictability... all because he's passionate?

Now that Larry Brown is available, he is probably the favorite to replace Adelman, especially since people have been trying to get him here ever since he left Philadelphia. And it is a move that could potentially turn out to be very advantageous for the Kings. But the downside is waaay to steep, especially for a team that's in as fragile a condition as the Kings are in right now.

Is he going to preach defense? Absolutely. Is he the type of personality the Maloofs are looking for? Probably. Is he worth the risk of losing all the progress the Kings have made in the last eight or nine years? I would say no.
have i mentioned how much i love you posting again? i think you nailed it. there is too much on the downside to risk the potential. i vote no, especially since av is backing him.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#7
well, on the plus side we would get a lot more games televised nationally.... which is good for me living in los angeles...
 
#9
I don't post here much anymore, though I peruse the site on a daily basis, but I can't help but wonder why posters are so adamantly opposed to the potential hire of Larry Brown. He is a coach with hall of fame credentials, high-visibility, and the willingness to get in players' faces when they don't commit wholeheartedly to defense. Once, just once, I would have loved Adelman to take his players to task for their sheer laziness (defense is about effort) to make the hustle play. And who cares if Brown's here for a mere two year span? In that time, he'll make the team a star again. We'll be on Sportscenter again. We'll be relevant again. We'll be nationally televised more regularly. I truly believe he'll be fine with Artest and Wells (if he resigns) because they bust their asses consistently. I'm more concerned for Brad Miller, Bibby, and their ilk, who oftentimes shirk defensive duties. And if they get mad? So what. Play the right way or don't play. He was right about the New York team. They were pathetic and he called them on it consistently. Good for him.
 
#10
I wasn't on the LB banwagon untill I read this article. It makes sense, even if it was only for a few years. Hire LB, and let his Assistent Head Coach know he will take over when Larry Retires (or something like that) and we can use those years of LB as a major learning time for the team. We are not 1 maybe even 2 years from the ring. So LB prob won't be around when we win it. But Having him here for 2-3 years would be wonderful for the development of our young players and the further maturation of out vets. Look what LB did to the pistons. He made them contenders, and now they are still contenders when he is gone. HE sets greatness in motion. Look what he did with the 2001 sixers... he had AI and Demeke Mutumbo (sp) and at best, average role players. But he made it to the finals.

As for the question of Ron and Larry not getting along, (which i thought would be a huge problem) i dont think it will be a problem. 1. Ron wanted to go to NY this year. (I know he is from New York, and thats proboly the reason he wanted to go there, but he knew LB was the coach, and he respects him) 2. Larry loves Defensive players, and Ron is the best at D. He could make Ron better than great at D, and hone his offensive talent to maximize his ability.

As for our absent minded pointguard on D? Mike could be a perfectly fine defender if he had a coach that inspired him to do so. As we see quoted from the Bee.

Ok, if he would have never went to NY, noone would be on his bad side. 1 bad year and now he is so hated? or so not respected? If we would have left DET and came to sac, we would all be peeing our pants with joy. So why not let him come to the city where bad reputations turn good.

There are so many other reasons I now support... no incredibly urge... the maloofs and GP to go after Larry. His is hall of fame, and his experience and leadership could make us legit for many years to come... and you know what? I dont doubt LB at all... If he can win with the sixers like he did, I think in 2 years he could assemble (with a strong of season this year) a championship run.

Go LB... GP make it happen
 
#11
I would absolutely hire Larry Brown. He leaves teams better off than how he found them. He is an excellent tutor of PGs, at least PGs that want to win. Billups was a journeyman until he hooked up with Brown. I think Larry could work wonders for Bibby. They will not split up amicably, but Bibby will be a perennial All-Star at the end of Larry's 2-3 years.

This team is not as close as most people seem to think. They are not a couple small additions away from contending. The Clippers are closer to contention than the Kings are right now. The Wells and Miller situations need to be hashed out. We have to continue switching personnel from a Princeton system to a defensively oriented roster. It is going to take 2-3 years for this Kings team to really be on the cusp of something. Now, the rebuild on the fly is still successful, because the Kings will not be in the lottery anytime soon. But they won't be battling for HCA either. I think Larry Brown would be perfect right now. You bring him in to provide a jolt, to teach defense, to tutor Artest/Bibby/Martin. Then, in 2-3 years, things fall apart and you get a guy who is more of a steward like Pop and Flip Saunders.
 
#12
SURVIVOR said:
I don't post here much anymore, though I peruse the site on a daily basis, but I can't help but wonder why posters are so adamantly opposed to the potential hire of Larry Brown. He is a coach with hall of fame credentials, high-visibility, and the willingness to get in players' faces when they don't commit wholeheartedly to defense. Once, just once, I would have loved Adelman to take his players to task for their sheer laziness (defense is about effort) to make the hustle play. And who cares if Brown's here for a mere two year span? In that time, he'll make the team a star again. We'll be on Sportscenter again. We'll be relevant again. We'll be nationally televised more regularly. I truly believe he'll be fine with Artest and Wells (if he resigns) because they bust their asses consistently. I'm more concerned for Brad Miller, Bibby, and their ilk, who oftentimes shirk defensive duties. And if they get mad? So what. Play the right way or don't play. He was right about the New York team. They were pathetic and he called them on it consistently. Good for him.
We were typing the same feelings at the same time :) Preach it
 
#13
I gotta admit, I have to agree with Ailene on this one. Larry Brown could very well leave the Kings in utter disarray, but at this point what do the Kings have to lose? There just aren't any good options. Larry Brown is one of the very best tacticians and player developers (as long as they're not rookies) in the game. He has the biggest ego in basketball, but maybe he has a chip on his shoulder from the way things turned out in New York.

And besides, Sacramento is the Betty Ford of the NBA -- we've seen all sorts of players rehab themselves here, why not a coach?
 
#14
I concur. Larry Brown is one of the few coaches who you could clearly state would be worth switching Rick Adelman for, based on records and championships. Maybe the Maloofs didn't know he was available, but here's salvation (of a 2-year sort). It's a gamble, right?
 
#15
SacKings4Life21 said:
So why not let him come to the city where bad reputations turn good.
Amidst all the other well said points you made I have to highlight this one Good point... I am keeping my mind open! Everytime someone comes here with a shady or bad past, I think many believe it would be disastrous. Then they experience the best fans in the NBA and are love struck, then suddenly they make a change for the good. Sure maybe Adelman had some to do with that, but I believe it is mostly the reception of us fans here in Sacramento.
 

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#17
I like LB in theory, but I am unsure about the realities. Bought out or maybe fired twice within a year? Increasingly public spats with players? And I have absolutely no idea what kind of salary he'd command just to probably have it bought out later. Ongoing health issues that may finally be getting resolved?

I also wonder about the development of some younger guys when he sat Darko for so long.

I assume that GP with the Maloofs will make the best decision they can and all of them know more about the dirty details of NBA coaching than I ever would dream of, so....

Go Kings! Hopefully (insert name of next coach here) can lead us to the promised land! ;)
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#18
If they want to hire Larry Brown, I certainly hope it's a short term contract so the Maloofs aren't stuck the way his past two employers have been.

I only have one problem with her whole article, really:

Keep it short and sweet. Change the culture around here. Give the man a call.
You may not like the culture around here, Voisin, but I think there are a lot of us who like it just fine. Let Brown adapt to Sacramento because I don't think Sacramento wants to adapt to him.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#19
Geoff said:
I concur. Larry Brown is one of the few coaches who you could clearly state would be worth switching Rick Adelman for, based on records and championships. Maybe the Maloofs didn't know he was available, but here's salvation (of a 2-year sort). It's a gamble, right?

Now here's the darkside fo the gamble:

The only title Larry ever won, he was spoon fed with a prebuilt cohesive Detroit team, and then the midseason masterpiece trade for Sheed (people forget that before that trade the Pistons were on pace for another 50 win season just like they had been having under Carlisle). Its a nice accomplishment, but hardly a pattern.

Meanwhile, you are lucky if he'll give you three years. But of course he'll demand 4, 5, 6 at ridiculous $$$$ that should otherwise be going to pay top players.

By the end of his stint, you could have no Petrie.

If he starts ****ing with Artest, who's contract is up after 2 years, you could have no Artest (even if you want him back after he implodes int he face of the B.S.). And then, having done his work, Larry packs up and leaves town, leaving you with nothing.

He will demand a roster overhaul to meet his critieria, then get happy feet and leave town just about the time you've traded your last young talent for a 35yr old creaky kneed vet who "knows how to play". He has not an ounce of loyalty to anybody but himself.

Meanwhile, he is whining to the media, bitching out players, engaging in power plays, and all of this while you are trying to get an arena built.


Almost any candidate can fail to win a title -- it was mentioned someplace else that only 4 coaches in the last 15 years have won titles. But few of the others (perhaps PJC) have the potential to do so much damage along the way to failure.
 
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#20
Bricklayer said:
Now here's the darkside fo the gamble:

The only title Larry ever won, he was spoon fed with a prebuilt cohesive Detroit team, and then the midseason masterpiece trade for Sheed (people forget that before that trade the Pistons were on pace for another 50 win season just like they had been having under Carlisle). Its a nice accomplishment, but hardly a pattern.

Meanwhile, you are lucky if he'll give you three years. But of course he'll demand 4, 5, 6 at ridiculous $$$$ that should otherwise be going to pay top players.

By the end of his stint, you could have no Petrie.

If he starts ****ing with Artest, who's contract is up after 2 years, you could have no Artest (even if you want him back after he implodes int he face of the B.S.). And then, having done his work, Larry packs up and leaves town, leaving you with nothing.

He will demand a roster overhaul to meet his critieria, then get happy feet and leave town just about the time you've traded your last young talent for a 35yr old creaky kneed vet who "knows how to play". He has not an ounce of loyalty to anybody but himself.

Meanwhile, he is whining to the media, bitching out players, engaging in power plays, and all of this while you are trying to get an arena built.


Almost any candidate can fail to win a title -- it was mentioned someplace else that only 4 coaches in the last 15 years have won titles. But few of the others (perhaps PJC) have the potential to do so much damage along the way to failure.
This is all true. But it's also basically the down side with any coach, although because of the size of the ego involved it's more extreme because it's Larry Brown.

Now granted, most coaches are not as egotistical and ridiculous as Larry Brown, but most coahces also aren't as talented as he is. And while Detroit's rise to the championship may look preordained now, it was one of the most stunning championships in the last few decades -- Brown deserves his share of the credit.

I'm not worried by the personnel changes Brown might want. The Kings are already a methodical half court team with (mostly) solid defense. He'll probably want a shotblocker like he did in New York, but I don't think that's a change any of us would disagree with (just no Theo Ratliff, for the love of God).

I'm not saying hiring Brown would be a bed of roses, it would take very, very strong leadership by the Maloofs to not put up with his garbage the way they did in Detroit and New York, and a very strong vote of confidence in Petrie. But just as with players, I think you kind of have to judge a potential coach on potential -- Brown is a championship level coach, and you really can't say as much about the other candidates.
 
#21
nbrans said:
I gotta admit, I have to agree with Ailene on this one. Larry Brown could very well leave the Kings in utter disarray, but at this point what do the Kings have to lose? There just aren't any good options. Larry Brown is one of the very best tacticians and player developers (as long as they're not rookies) in the game. He has the biggest ego in basketball, but maybe he has a chip on his shoulder from the way things turned out in New York.

And besides, Sacramento is the Betty Ford of the NBA -- we've seen all sorts of players rehab themselves here, why not a coach?
That quote "as long as they're not rookies", will it affect Kevin Martin in any shape or form? If so I don't want him here.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#23
For all those who say its ok to go with a coach who will last maybe 2 years, I say all the better evidence we should take a gamble on a young coach. If it works we might have another solid long term coach on our hands, if not we can get out cheap after a year or two and still be in the position to bring in a name coach and make a run. I think we're probably a year away from true contention if we make the right moves, that leaves us with a 2-3 year window barring injuries after that.
 
#24
nbrans said:
This is all true. But it's also basically the down side with any coach, although because of the size of the ego involved it's more extreme because it's Larry Brown.

Now granted, most coaches are not as egotistical and ridiculous as Larry Brown, but most coahces also aren't as talented as he is. And while Detroit's rise to the championship may look preordained now, it was one of the most stunning championships in the last few decades -- Brown deserves his share of the credit.

I'm not worried by the personnel changes Brown might want. The Kings are already a methodical half court team with (mostly) solid defense. He'll probably want a shotblocker like he did in New York, but I don't think that's a change any of us would disagree with (just no Theo Ratliff, for the love of God).

I'm not saying hiring Brown would be a bed of roses, it would take very, very strong leadership by the Maloofs to not put up with his garbage the way they did in Detroit and New York, and a very strong vote of confidence in Petrie. But just as with players, I think you kind of have to judge a potential coach on potential -- Brown is a championship level coach, and you really can't say as much about the other candidates.
I agree. Larry Brown is a HOF coach, someone yu don't always have a chance to get. In his more recent coaching stints, he's improved the team: Indiana, Philly, and Detroit. Don't forget that LB was credited in outcoaching Phil Jackson in that surprising Finals win. Sure, it's a gamble, especially with Artest, but I think would be ok since LB would respect Artest's work ethic and his amazing defense and actually helping him become even more of a defensive monster.

In Philly, LB grew tired of Iverson's poor work ethic, which resulted in the famous AI quotes: "Practice, we talking about practice, man, what about the damn game!" In NY, he had the career long me-first malcontent in Marbury. Other than the strong personalities of Bonzi and Artest, the Kings don't have those types of players and like I said, I think both players would avoid LB's anger since they hustle and play D. The biggest problem LB might have with Artest, is his role in the offense, hopefully for a 2 year championship run that can be solved (hopefully he could convince Artest to go inside more and stop taking perimeter shots).

All things considered, I think it's definately work taking a shot at the best coach available, maybe the best coach in the league period. To win championships, you have to take chances and not be afraid to fail. Besides, the Maloofs were clearly insterested in Jackson last year, you'd have to think the same for LB this year.
 
#26
Bricklayer said:
Now here's the darkside fo the gamble:

The only title Larry ever won, he was spoon fed with a prebuilt cohesive Detroit team, and then the midseason masterpiece trade for Sheed (people forget that before that trade the Pistons were on pace for another 50 win season just like they had been having under Carlisle). Its a nice accomplishment, but hardly a pattern.

Meanwhile, you are lucky if he'll give you three years. But of course he'll demand 4, 5, 6 at ridiculous $$$$ that should otherwise be going to pay top players.

By the end of his stint, you could have no Petrie.

If he starts ****ing with Artest, who's contract is up after 2 years, you could have no Artest (even if you want him back after he implodes int he face of the B.S.). And then, having done his work, Larry packs up and leaves town, leaving you with nothing.

He will demand a roster overhaul to meet his critieria, then get happy feet and leave town just about the time you've traded your last young talent for a 35yr old creaky kneed vet who "knows how to play". He has not an ounce of loyalty to anybody but himself.

Meanwhile, he is whining to the media, bitching out players, engaging in power plays, and all of this while you are trying to get an arena built.


Almost any candidate can fail to win a title -- it was mentioned someplace else that only 4 coaches in the last 15 years have won titles. But few of the others (perhaps PJC) have the potential to do so much damage along the way to failure.
Brick, I think you feel this way on account of being in NY. The way Napear describes it, the people in NY have turned against Larry, and the media is fueling the fire. I can't believe that people are essentially taking the word of Isaih over the word of Larry. Compare their track records. Sure, Larry is a cranky malcontent, but he makes teams better. Isaih is a cranky malcontent who decimates everything he touches. This was Larry's dream job and I think he pulled this stuff to force Isaih out. Somehow, Isaih outflanked him and Larry is the guy getting his pink slip.

As for Petrie, I mean, Joe Dumars still has his job. Petrie, like Dumars, is a tenured GM w/ a fantastic pedigree who has the attention of the owner(s). If Larry gets too nuts, he'll be the one to go.

We'll have to make some roster changes, most notably Miller needs to go. But Larry would be fantastic for Bibby/Artest/Martin.
 
W

West_Gunslinger16

Guest
#27
Venom said:
We'll have to make some roster changes, most notably Miller needs to go. But Larry would be fantastic for Bibby/Artest/Martin.
Best ever in this board! 10 out of 10.:D
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#28
West_Gunslinger16 said:
So this Ailene, he hates the other guy then he loves this other guy?
Ailene Voisin is female. She had a long-running feud with Rick Adelman AND Chris Webber.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#29
Venom said:
Brick, I think you feel this way on account of being in NY. The way Napear describes it, the people in NY have turned against Larry, and the media is fueling the fire. I can't believe that people are essentially taking the word of Isaih over the word of Larry. Compare their track records. Sure, Larry is a cranky malcontent, but he makes teams better. Isaih is a cranky malcontent who decimates everything he touches. This was Larry's dream job and I think he pulled this stuff to force Isaih out. Somehow, Isaih outflanked him and Larry is the guy getting his pink slip.

As for Petrie, I mean, Joe Dumars still has his job. Petrie, like Dumars, is a tenured GM w/ a fantastic pedigree who has the attention of the owner(s). If Larry gets too nuts, he'll be the one to go.

We'll have to make some roster changes, most notably Miller needs to go. But Larry would be fantastic for Bibby/Artest/Martin.
So you think everyone is picking on poor Larry? First in Detroit, where he was paid $11 million to leave and now in New York, where they're reportedly going to have to kick out $40 million to remove him from their team?

That's $51 million paid by two consecutive employers to remove him from their employ. I'm thinking there's a little more at work here than a town without pity and a hostile media...
 
#30
VF21 said:
So you think everyone is picking on poor Larry? First in Detroit, where he was paid $11 million to leave and now in New York, where they're reportedly going to have to kick out $40 million to remove him from their team?

That's $51 million paid by two consecutive employers to remove him from their employ. I'm thinking there's a little more at work here than a town without pity and a hostile media...
No, I just think it was pretty apparent last summer that there would be a power play between Larry and Isaih, and that both parties knew it. I'm surprised that Isaih has won that power struggle, and that the media is duplicitous in all this considering the way Isaih has mishandled that roster since he got there.