Larry Bird wants $5 Mil and Part of the Team?

[Bricklayer]

Again, while Bird looks better to me too than the other names tossed about, I really think people need to take a realistic assessment of what he accomplished as a GM. Is he mostly responsible for the current Pacers? Sure. I say mostly because if you have forgotten he has at various times shared the front office duties there with Donnie Walsh and others, so you can't 100% know.

And here's the thing people are ignoring. Sicne the "malice in the Palace" year, here are Indiana's records under Bird:

04-05 44-38
05-06 41-41
06-07 35-47
07-08 36-46
08-09 36-46
09-10 32-50
10-11 37-45
11-12 42-34
12-13 49-32 (Bird gone, but built much of team)

9 years. 3 winning seasons. During the 8 years while Bird was there the highest win total in that era was 44, although last year's 42 in a short season as effectively better.

 

[Livinthedream]

Leslie is awesome. Very witty and I'm always trying to read between the lines. On this Pigs Fly tweet, I can't figure it out though. I'm not sure if she's saying Vecsey is flat out wrong, or if she is saying that he needs to keep his mouth shut while negotiations are going on. If there was no truth to what Vecsey was saying, it doesn't matter and she doesn't need to debunk it. The tweet below from her came before the pigs fly comment.

Leslie Moore ‏@lesliempr 5h
#IRONY RT @PeterVecsey1: Michael Douglas really ought to learn to keep his mouth shut

My gut instinct says that there is a chance to land bird and she doesn't want Vecsey to mess up the negotiations. I wonder who Vecsey's source is with the Kings, because he got the Malone hiring right and seemed to touch a nerve with his comments today.

 

[captain bill]

These are some of the most notable transactions of Larry Bird as Front Office Exec of the Indiana Pacers

What really stands out to be is that these moves look like constant re-tooling in the sense of not being married to any particular players. He also has a great eye for young talent, clearly, added vets that contributed, and quickly shipped out vets who weren't clicking (and still got good value in return).

I'd be happy to have him, maybe slightly more happy than having Wallace. But I don't think you can go wrong either way (well obviously you can, but only time will tell).

What IS GREAT about this is that all the top candidates are suddenly showing strong interest in Sacramento, which hasn't happened in like forever.

 

[Arco Arena]

Again, while Bird looks better to me too than the other names tossed about, I really think people need to take a realistic assessment of what he accomplished as a GM. Is he mostly responsible for the current Pacers? Sure. I say mostly because if you have forgotten he has at various times shared the front office duties there with Donnie Walsh and others, so you can't 100% know.

Donnie Walsh left the Pacers in 2007 and didn't return until this year. The key personnel of this current Pacers team were acquired with Donnie gone and Larry at the helm.

But yes, you bring up good points, he was also at the helm when the Pacers plunged into one of the worst stretches in their history. There are some excuses.. such as the malice-in-palace aftermath, decisions/pieces from the last regime, natural decline from making the playoffs 14/15 years... but yes, he is mortal and not immune to mistakes. Still there isn't a better candidate available and he is fresh off some of his best work in the front office, Kings fans have a right to be excited at the prospect he'd join the organization.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

well she also retweeted this when a follower suggested vecey was full of it. looks like there was no meeting with bird.


Paul Riddle ‏@Slugking50 44m "@lesliempr : You know what else flies besides Birds? Pigs. Pigs fly, as well. Because I said so." Sumthin' tells me says Vesceys full of it
Retweeted by Leslie Moore

What's KF.com coming to when the Slug is reduced to just "a follower"?

 

[VF21]

What's KF.com coming to when the Slug is reduced to just "a follower"?

A lot of our members haven't had the privilege of interacting with the lettuce lover.

It brought back some good memories to see his trail on a comment.

 

[VF21]

Back On topic...

Pacer fans are mixed on this. A lot of them still want Bird back, since he stepped down "for health reasons." Others feel it was never about health, but about a conflict with ownership. We would gain some more members if Bird came here, as some Pacer fans would follow him just about anywhere.

It is so cool to have things like this to talk about. We keep this up, we may even get back to getting postcards from relevance.

 

[Livinthedream]

I think this piece by Sam Amick backs up what I was trying to get at about Bird.

"Yet while It appears Morway will get his shot to impress Ranadive, the new Kings owner continues to attempt to court former Pacers team president Larry Bird as well. There have been no formal interviews between Bird and Ranadive, but the dialogue is clearly open enough that he sees a chance - however slim it may be - to convince him to oversee the franchise"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/kings/2013/06/05/sacramento-kings-interviewing-david-morway/2394803/

 

[VF21]

Leslie is awesome. Very witty and I'm always trying to read between the lines. On this Pigs Fly tweet, I can't figure it out though. I'm not sure if she's saying Vecsey is flat out wrong, or if she is saying that he needs to keep his mouth shut while negotiations are going on. If there was no truth to what Vecsey was saying, it doesn't matter and she doesn't need to debunk it. The tweet below from her came before the pigs fly comment.

Leslie Moore ‏@lesliempr 5h
#IRONY RT @PeterVecsey1: Michael Douglas really ought to learn to keep his mouth shut

My gut instinct says that there is a chance to land bird and she doesn't want Vecsey to mess up the negotiations. I wonder who Vecsey's source is with the Kings, because he got the Malone hiring right and seemed to touch a nerve with his comments today.

Considering Vecsey just about NEVER got anything right on the Kings before very recently, you almost have to conclude that the source is within Vivek's group.

 

[hrdboild]

Again, while Bird looks better to me too than the other names tossed about, I really think people need to take a realistic assessment of what he accomplished as a GM. Is he mostly responsible for the current Pacers? Sure. I say mostly because if you have forgotten he has at various times shared the front office duties there with Donnie Walsh and others, so you can't 100% know.

And here's the thing people are ignoring. Sicne the "malice in the Palace" year, here are Indiana's records under Bird:

04-05 44-38
05-06 41-41
06-07 35-47
07-08 36-46
08-09 36-46
09-10 32-50
10-11 37-45
11-12 42-34
12-13 49-32 (Bird gone, but built much of team)

9 years. 3 winning seasons. During the 8 years while Bird was there the highest win total in that era was 44, although last year's 42 in a short season as effectively better.

Brick, that's actually why I think highly of Bird as a GM. The Malice situation was out of his control. Jermaine O'Neal's career being lost to injuries was out of his control too. At the time they were possibly the best team in the Eastern Conference and he basically started from scratch and got the team back to relevance again relatively quickly without the benefit of any high draft picks or marquee free-agent signings. Plus I just flat out like the players he picked to build the team around. I was a fan of Hibbert and George in college. They had Collison there for awhile who I really like as well. They took a flyer on a big red flag guy in Lance Stephenson and developed him into a productive player mostly under his watch. And he's smartly managed the salary cap situation. He has flaws like anyone else, but there's very few available guys who have a better track record. You can talk about unproven new guys of course, which is a whole other risk/benefit scenario. But for guys with a track record I think he stacks up well with anyone.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

To be clear, I don't think Bird would be a 'home run' but I like it better than the other names floated around.

Out of the candidates we've heard about, I'd take them in this order: Buford, Bird, Schlenk, D'Alessandro, Morway, Wallace, Dunleavy. For me, Schlenk and D'alessandro are in there because they are 'unknowns' and what I know about the other guys below them I don't like. That being said, I don't have anything bad to say about Morway... just can't get overly excited about him.

Now, if we could bring Bird in as president and Morway as GM ..

 

[Bricklayer]

Brick, that's actually why I think highly of Bird as a GM. The Malice situation was out of his control. Jermaine O'Neal's career being lost to injuries was out of his control too. At the time they were possibly the best team in the Eastern Conference and he basically started from scratch and got the team back to relevance again relatively quickly without the benefit of any high draft picks or marquee free-agent signings. Plus I just flat out like the players he picked to build the team around. I was a fan of Hibbert and George in college. They had Collison there for awhile who I really like as well. They took a flyer on a big red flag guy in Lance Stephenson and developed him into a productive player mostly under his watch. And he's smartly managed the salary cap situation. He has flaws like anyone else, but there's very few available guys who have a better track record. You can talk about unproven new guys of course, which is a whole other risk/benefit scenario. But for guys with a track record I think he stacks up well with anyone.

8 years is not relatively quickly.

That's Petrie paced.

In any case, at least he doesn't trade away superstars for the sport of it like Wallace, but he's been a .500 GM.

 

[The Hammer]

If we get Bird, we get Chris Paul. Now just tell Larry that and it's a done deal.

I believe what's really making this franchise attractive is Vivek's plan for globalization of the Kings brand. That's the real game changer and the smart ones know it. Larry is smart.

 

[rainmaker]

8 years is not relatively quickly.

That's Petrie paced.

In any case, at least he doesn't trade away superstars for the sport of it like Wallace, but he's been a .500 GM.

True, but they also have the same issue we have as a franchise. We're not a sexy destination for FA's. And at least it doesn't snow in Sac and it's an hour from both SF and Tahoe. There's nothing near Indianapolis worth seeing.

So like us, they need to rely on the draft. Looking at their picks over those 8 years, they had a single top 10 pick, and it was #10, Paul George. Great pick. I don't know their history though and whether they traded away picks previously, but they didn't get three top 5 picks like us(one of which we completely blew) which a franchise like ours or theirs really needs. To slowly put together an ECF level team with room for improvement without going through the draft is impressive. And trading O'neal for Hibbert turned out to be an absolute steal.

Again though, don't know if more played into where they picked and whether they screwed that up. Maybe they didn't rebuild quickly enough and that's why no picks at the top of the lottery. And right now I'd rather Bird over Wallace if that's the choice or two top options in Vivek's mind.

 

[Arco Arena]

8 years is not relatively quickly.

That's Petrie paced.

In any case, at least he doesn't trade away superstars for the sport of it like Wallace, but he's been a .500 GM.

How many other small market teams have rebuilt and turned into a legit contender in less time without a top 5 pick?

 

[HereWeBoogie]

If we get Bird, we get Chris Paul.

i wouldn't go that far. i don't think anything could make CP want to come here, unless this was a team on the cusp of a championship

 

[sdballer]

True, but they also have the same issue we have as a franchise. We're not a sexy destination for FA's. And at least it doesn't snow in Sac and it's an hour from both SF and Tahoe. There's nothing near Indianapolis worth seeing.

So like us, they need to rely on the draft. Looking at their picks over those 8 years, they had a single top 10 pick, and it was #10, Paul George. Great pick. I don't know their history though and whether they traded away picks previously, but they didn't get three top 5 picks like us(one of which we completely blew) which a franchise like ours or theirs really needs. To slowly put together an ECF level team with room for improvement without going through the draft is impressive. And trading O'neal for Hibbert turned out to be an absolute steal.

Again though, don't know if more played into where they picked and whether they screwed that up. Maybe they didn't rebuild quickly enough and that's why no picks at the top of the lottery. And right now I'd rather Bird over Wallace if that's the choice or two top options in Vivek's mind.

It was actually an interesting rebuild. He inherited the talented but ultimately dysfunctional team of Artest, O'Neal and Jackson that went to the conference finals. After they imploded, he basically rebuilt from scratch but never got bad enough to get a high pick. They lingered around the low teen picks for about 4 seasons while he acquired there current pieces:

1. Selected Danny Granger with the 17th pick
2. Traded Jermaine O'Neal for a package that included Roy Hibbert
3. Selected Tyler Hansbrough with the 13th pick
4. Selected Paul George with the 10th pick
5. Selected Lance Stephenson with the 40th pick
6. Traded the Kawhi Leonard pick for George Hill
7. Signed David West

With the exception of the Granger pick, all of that happened between 2008 and 2011. I think the challenge was that due to the massive reputation hit the key players took from the Palace incident, he wasn't able to get great return on those guys which set them back for a few years. I don't know that he had a flawless tenure as he had some random moves/picks in there but overall, he turned a small market, severely damaged franchise around with some pretty thoughtful moves.

If we decided to go experience vs young GM prospect, I think he'd be the best pick, especially if we could pair him with a salary cap wiz.

 

[NewArena]

And a piece of the team? Um sorry, yes that IS unreasonable if true. GMs are employees BTW. In fact that isn't having a GM, its having a part owner who also meddles in personnel. The only examples of that I can think of might be Riley (I forget, but maybe) or Pop (maybe). The difference being that neither of those guys was given a chunk of the team when they showed up. They earned it with a decade of success beforehand, became part of the family, then got raised up.

However, this is again Vescey. And so once again, take it with the whole salt shaker.

Come to think about it Jordan may have had that in Washington. Disaster that that was.

No i believe Riley asked for a part of the team as one of his stipulations. I don't think he was ever a part of Miami
beforehand, if i recall correctly. I could be way off base

 

[The Hammer]

i wouldn't go that far. i don't think anything could make CP want to come here, unless this was a team on the cusp of a championship

A billion Indians knowing who he is.

Vivek>>>Sterling.

Our team with cp3 and a draft pick, defensive big free agent, with a few tweaks, under Malone, is a playoff team next year and a title contender the year after that.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

Kevin Pritchard, the guy who loaded up Portland before everyone's knees turned to dust, has been in Indiana for a couple of years. You can do worse than Bird, but he's got similar issues that I have with Petrie and he's got some of the same excuses for armor as him as well.

Before you even try to excuse the stretch of mediocrity his contending team getting old/falling apart, Bird made the whole thing worse by taking on Dunleavy and Murphy. They never drafted high in the lottery because they never really tried to blow it up.

 

[Bricklayer]

How many other small market teams have rebuilt and turned into a legit contender in less time without a top 5 pick?

I obviously have no idea, but that would be an argument against his tenure, not for it. Not getting bad enough to get a top pick is a sign of stubbornness and stupidity.

I should also note that frankly this season Indiana won 49 games. 49. They had a great playoff run, but 49 wins is not legit contender unless they can prove this wasn't a fluke.

 

[sdballer]

This Paul talk is getting silly. How exactly would we go about getting him? We can't offer what other teams can. We'd have to give up so much in a sign and trade that it would rob the team of the young pieces that would make us attractive. We lack the marketing/endorsement potential of the larger markets. And as one of the premier stars in the league,a billion Indians will already know who he is if Vivek can make basketball relevant in India (a huge if).

Vivek was a big win for us and his approach so far is a welcome relief to a fanbase starved for good news.

We didn't suddenly become a premier free agent destination.

Deep breaths everyone.

 

[Section 101]

This Paul talk is getting silly. How exactly would we go about getting him? We can't offer what other teams can. We'd have to give up so much in a sign and trade that it would rob the team of the young pieces that would make us attractive. We lack the marketing/endorsement potential of the larger markets. And as one of the premier stars in the league,a billion Indians will already know who he is if Vivek can make basketball relevant in India (a huge if).

Vivek was a big win for us and his approach so far is a welcome relief to a fanbase starved for good news.

We didn't suddenly become a premier free agent destination.

Deep breaths everyone.

We can offer the exact same as any other team money wise except the clippers. Sign and trades won't be happening like they used to with the new CBA.

 

[sdballer]

I obviously have no idea, but that would be an argument against his tenure, not for it. Not getting bad enough to get a top pick is a sign of stubbornness and stupidity.

I should also note that frankly this season Indiana won 49 games. 49. They had a great playoff run, but 49 wins is not legit contender unless they can prove this wasn't a fluke.

Agree in part. I think they lingered in mediocrity for too long. But I'm not sure he had a ton of control in that. It's not like Petrie who hung on to guys for too long. They straight killed their trade value with not only the Detroit incident but their overall behavior. And to his credit, he gave it a season to try and work with them personally. When that didn't happen, in order to clean them out he took back decent guys on ok to eh deals but moved them on within a season or 2. All told it ended up being about 4 seasons but I think he had a very unusual set of circumstances to work with.

The other impressive thing about what they did this year, is that their pieces are young and still improving. If they were maxed out vets, I think he would deserve far less praise, but he's got a young, defensive team that's getting better.

 

[sdballer]

We can offer the exact same as any other team money wise except the clippers. Sign and trades won't be happening like they used to with the new CBA.

I believe we'd have to renounce all of our free agents including Reke in order to offer a max deal. So yes, if we wanted to let Reke go, we could offer him a max deal. I was including Reke in the team that people assume adding Paul to in order to be so compelling.

 

[Arco Arena]

I obviously have no idea, but that would be an argument against his tenure, not for it. Not getting bad enough to get a top pick is a sign of stubbornness and stupidity.

I should also note that frankly this season Indiana won 49 games. 49. They had a great playoff run, but 49 wins is not legit contender unless they can prove this wasn't a fluke.

Not having a high lottery pick was slightly out of his hands. There were a couple years where the Pacers won a huge chunk of irrelevant games at the end of the season.. and largely due to their young talent. There's only so much an exec can do to tank while collecting young assets for the future, but yeah, I guess there were maybe some moves he could have done to tank harder while not jeopardizing the future. Still, quite impressive what he did with what he had.

True, 49 doesn't sound imposing, but it got them the 3 seed in the East. They were one win from the championship round, against the defending champions no less. Being considered a contender is always relative to your competition, not an arbitrary regular season win total.

 

[Section 101]

I believe we'd have to renounce all of our free agents including Reke in order to offer a max deal. So yes, if we wanted to let Reke go, we could offer him a max deal. I was including Reke in the team that people assume adding Paul to in order to be so compelling.

We can either renounce evans or amnesty salmons.

 

[hrdboild]

8 years is not relatively quickly.

That's Petrie paced.

In any case, at least he doesn't trade away superstars for the sport of it like Wallace, but he's been a .500 GM.

But it's not 8 seasons of rebuilding. The Pacers still made the playoffs in 04-05 despite facing lengthy suspensions for half the team and made the playoffs again the following season. Then they missed the playoffs for the next four years, hanging around the mid-30s in wins in all of them. And the next three years they lost in the first round, lost in the semifinals, and lost in 7 games in the conference finals which, by the way mirrors the performance of the best Kings team that Petrie ever fielded under his watch. So that's 4 years of rebuilding not 8, and the team never got hopelessly bad during any of them. He got dealt the worst deck of cards in the league, inheriting a winning team that imploded on him and had to be dismantled top to bottom, and he rebuilt them into a playoff team again in 4 years. Meanwhile Petrie has presided over fanbase-killing seasons of 17, 25, 24, 22, and 28 wins and the playoffs aren't anywhere in sight. You could argue that our 38 win team in 2008 would make the playoffs in the Eastern Conference but generally we've seen little or no progress for five straight seasons of "worst 5 in the league" performances while the Pacers never got that bad, hovered around mediocre for awhile slowly adding the young players who would bring them back to relevance, and are now legitimate contenders who faced and defeated some strong competition to advance within one game of the Finals.

Comparing that team, or frankly any other, to what Miami did in Free Agency is unfair. No other team in the league had the combination of opportunities that Miami had which allowed them to build that powerhouse team and Indiana is arguably a better all-around team than them anyway, just lacking the elite star to put them over the top. Their best player sat out basically the entire season and they're still the second best team in the conference. They lose nobody that contributed to that performance a year from now and they'll have an additional 20+ million of cap space to work with. Roy Hibbert and Paul George are one of the best young cores in the league and Bird snapped both them up with draft picks where most teams can't reliably find a starting player. I think you have to actively be trying to discredit somebody to look at all of this and call it 8 years of rebuilding to produce a low ceiling fringe contender. What counts is that he made the right moves to improve the team and put them in an excellent position to win consistently.

 

[King Baller]

I prefer Bird or Buford, and if not one of those two, then continue to poach from the GSW Bring in Schlenk and Jarrett Jack.

KB

 

[ParniValjak]

I would love to have Bird as the GM for a number of reasons. One is that he is clearly the best candidate from those that might be available and he did rebuild Indiana into a team that scared the crap out of Miami in the EC finals this year. He clearly knows how to build a team and if you look at Indy from the playing roster to the coach, its a defensive team. I love that. If he accepts the job, he already has some good young talent on the books and centrepiece in Cousins.

Secondly, Larry Bird just draws respect. He has proven himself as a player, coach and a president/GM of the NBA team so when he starts speaking, someone like DMC will listen and respect that. If Larry Bird looks him in the eye and says "Now DeMarcus, you need to do this if you want to win and get the best out of yourself" then you know that DamC will listen because Larry. Irs has the body of work behind him that is extremely rare for anyone else.

I love the fact that we are trying to bring in the best and create a culture and environmt where our young players will flourish!