[LAL/BOS]Game 6 discussion and prediction poll
- Thread starter piksi
- Start date
piksi
Hall of Famer
in a very distant future or different universe
PejaFanatic
Starter
Congrats to Pollard! I'm happy for him.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
An interesting stat:
Kobe Bryant, career regular season:
36.5min 25.0ppg (.453 .340 .839) 5.3reb 4.6ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.9TO
Kobe Bryant, career playoffs:
39.1min 24.3ppg (.446 .325 .797) 5.1reb 4.6ast 1.4stl 0.7blk 2.9TO
Reputation aside, is there actually an extra gear?
Kobe Bryant, career regular season:
36.5min 25.0ppg (.453 .340 .839) 5.3reb 4.6ast 1.5stl 0.5blk 2.9TO
Kobe Bryant, career playoffs:
39.1min 24.3ppg (.446 .325 .797) 5.1reb 4.6ast 1.4stl 0.7blk 2.9TO
Reputation aside, is there actually an extra gear?
JerN820
Bench
I don't usually save non-Kings games but this one is going into the vault so I can bring it out and watch the humiliation over and over and over again.
The ownage couldnt have happened to a better team.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And to quote myself, because I made by far the most interesting post of this entire thread
:Kobe Bryant, NBA Finals stats:
IND - 15.6 PPG, 36% FG
PHI - 24.6 PPG, 42% FG
NJ - 26.8 PPG, 51% FG
DET - 22.6 PPG, 37% FG
BOS - 26.4 PPG, 42% FG
(plucked from another site)
Interesting.
PejaFanatic
Starter
A fan at the game had a poster that said - Kobe Can't Do Jack Without Shaq!
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
my prediction was right! go celtics!
Ouch.
Packt
Starter
Congrats to Scott Pollard.
Not a fan of Boston and liked Garnett better when he was losing, when there was a minute chance of him coming to town. Eddie House was a King for too brief a period, I still only think of him as Bibby's brother-in-law. Rondo should've been ours, Damn Geoff (after this draft, our team could've been complete).
It was hard for me to root for either team. This match up was too much a dream match up and it wasn't my dream. No underdogs here, and I think Kobe is the best player in the league, but he's not someone I'd ever root for.
Sasha was in Martin's draft class, and he's played in the finals. WTF!
In a do over: Farmar or Douby?
Has it been mentioned the Celtics tanked or have been tanking to get this championship. GM's across the league should be taking notes.
What happened to the Lakers... what happened to Kobe. They were extremely soft. I expected some rough play when things started going wrong. Kobe was extremely passive, like he was elbow-less. Odom and Garnett seemed to have something going, but the game was over by then.
By the end it was nice to see the big three finally get their rings. It was even kind of inspiring. Too bad it wasn't my team.
Not a fan of Boston and liked Garnett better when he was losing, when there was a minute chance of him coming to town. Eddie House was a King for too brief a period, I still only think of him as Bibby's brother-in-law. Rondo should've been ours, Damn Geoff (after this draft, our team could've been complete).
It was hard for me to root for either team. This match up was too much a dream match up and it wasn't my dream. No underdogs here, and I think Kobe is the best player in the league, but he's not someone I'd ever root for.
Sasha was in Martin's draft class, and he's played in the finals. WTF!
In a do over: Farmar or Douby?
Has it been mentioned the Celtics tanked or have been tanking to get this championship. GM's across the league should be taking notes.
What happened to the Lakers... what happened to Kobe. They were extremely soft. I expected some rough play when things started going wrong. Kobe was extremely passive, like he was elbow-less. Odom and Garnett seemed to have something going, but the game was over by then.
By the end it was nice to see the big three finally get their rings. It was even kind of inspiring. Too bad it wasn't my team.
I think this series raises the question of just HOW MUCH help does Kobe need to win a title as the #1 option. All I heard was how he needed help, then they get Gasol, and everyone says "OMG AWESOME HE GOTS TEH HELP WE WIN THE CHAMPIUNSHIP BAYBEE!!11!"
I heard how Gasol was such a great #2 option during the earlier rounds vs Utah and SA. I heard how he was going to match up perfectly with KG from laker fans. I heard all this stuff. Now that Kobe loses, instead of blaming Kobe for being apathetic and not leading his team, people blame his teammates. What the heck? I hear the SAME excuse again of not enough help.
Now Laker fans are saying we should trade them Ron Artest on other boards. So he needs Artest, Gasol, Bynum, AND Odom to win a championship? Tim Duncan, Pierce, KG, etc. could win easiley with those guys too. If the guy needs 4 all star calibre players on his team to win a championship how good is he? Shaq sure didn't need that much help. Tim Duncan didn't need that much help. Pierce/KG didn't need quite that much help.
I am sick of this damn excuse and hearing morons say he's better than MJ and he just needs help. MJ would've won with this team, or atleast would've made sure they didn't get STOMPED OUT in the elimination game. People say he can do things Jordan can't for some reason, well yeah he can lose 2 finals. MJ never lost ONE.
I don't even buy that he is the best player in the league today. 2 years ago before Memphis blew it up, Gasol was leading them to 50 win seasons as the undisputed #1 option. A rookie DWade did hella good with Odom and Butler. He's a freaking rookie. So with 2 all star calibre guys, 1 of whom was a #1 option on a team for his whole career so far, he gets completely owned in the finals?
Not to mention he has choked in the finals like 4 of the 5 times he's been there. His performances have NEVER been good in the finals except vs NJ. Vs Indy, that was Shaq. Vs Philly, that was Shaq, we all know how awful he was vs Detroit and now vs Boston he looked ineffective for the majority of the series. He was also outplayed by Pierce who was dealing with a knee injury. He couldn't guard Pierce one on one, he couldn't get himself free of the Celtics defense, he didn't drive, he got scared of Boston's big men in the paint and he resorted to chucking up 30 footers. Yeah that worked for him in the 1st quarters of the last couple games when he caught fire from 3, but once Boston adjusted he had a combined 7 makes in the other 6 quarters of the last 2 games. One of those was a dunk off of a steal that was a foul. Heck he even got his pocket picked by Rondo MULTIPLE times, choosing to dribble around like a moron instead of throwing it out to the shooters a lot of the time.
Sorry but I've never bought into his hype and I'm DEFINITELY not buying into it now.
I heard how Gasol was such a great #2 option during the earlier rounds vs Utah and SA. I heard how he was going to match up perfectly with KG from laker fans. I heard all this stuff. Now that Kobe loses, instead of blaming Kobe for being apathetic and not leading his team, people blame his teammates. What the heck? I hear the SAME excuse again of not enough help.
Now Laker fans are saying we should trade them Ron Artest on other boards. So he needs Artest, Gasol, Bynum, AND Odom to win a championship? Tim Duncan, Pierce, KG, etc. could win easiley with those guys too. If the guy needs 4 all star calibre players on his team to win a championship how good is he? Shaq sure didn't need that much help. Tim Duncan didn't need that much help. Pierce/KG didn't need quite that much help.
I am sick of this damn excuse and hearing morons say he's better than MJ and he just needs help. MJ would've won with this team, or atleast would've made sure they didn't get STOMPED OUT in the elimination game. People say he can do things Jordan can't for some reason, well yeah he can lose 2 finals. MJ never lost ONE.
I don't even buy that he is the best player in the league today. 2 years ago before Memphis blew it up, Gasol was leading them to 50 win seasons as the undisputed #1 option. A rookie DWade did hella good with Odom and Butler. He's a freaking rookie. So with 2 all star calibre guys, 1 of whom was a #1 option on a team for his whole career so far, he gets completely owned in the finals?
Not to mention he has choked in the finals like 4 of the 5 times he's been there. His performances have NEVER been good in the finals except vs NJ. Vs Indy, that was Shaq. Vs Philly, that was Shaq, we all know how awful he was vs Detroit and now vs Boston he looked ineffective for the majority of the series. He was also outplayed by Pierce who was dealing with a knee injury. He couldn't guard Pierce one on one, he couldn't get himself free of the Celtics defense, he didn't drive, he got scared of Boston's big men in the paint and he resorted to chucking up 30 footers. Yeah that worked for him in the 1st quarters of the last couple games when he caught fire from 3, but once Boston adjusted he had a combined 7 makes in the other 6 quarters of the last 2 games. One of those was a dunk off of a steal that was a foul. Heck he even got his pocket picked by Rondo MULTIPLE times, choosing to dribble around like a moron instead of throwing it out to the shooters a lot of the time.
Sorry but I've never bought into his hype and I'm DEFINITELY not buying into it now.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
For all the collapse, there is still this: that Lakers team really wasn't built to win an NBA title this year. Not only is it the first deep playoff run for that crew -- as a unit they really didn't have much more experience than a team like New Orleans -- but it was a team that added a huge component (Gasol) midseason. They were obviously very talented, and wil get more so next season just by the re-additon of Bynum if they do nothing else. But as far as being battle hardened and ready to win it all? Not so much. Kobe and Fisher have been to the top obviously. But I'm not sure there was another rotation player on the entire team -- not Gasol, not Odom, not Walton, not Vujacic, not Farmar, not Turiaf who had been out of the first round of the playoffs in his career. Actually Vlad Rad is your other experienced hand, as he had once made it all the way to the second round while wearing beads in his hair that year Seattle beat us in the first round. And not only did they not have much individual experience in deep playoff runs, they also had no experience together in deep playoff runs. This was their maiden voyage.
And then the other thing that people forget is that they were facing a damn good team. A team that won 66 games, which I think probably puts it in the top 10-12 best records of all time, and which now probably features two HOFs (KG and Pierce) after this win.
And then the other thing that people forget is that they were facing a damn good team. A team that won 66 games, which I think probably puts it in the top 10-12 best records of all time, and which now probably features two HOFs (KG and Pierce) after this win.
bozzwell
Starter
All good points and all, but Celtics were built in the last off season, then added help/role players later in the year (PJ and Alien). They played most of their games against EC teams to get that record, where LAL had to beat out some very talented and hot teams on their late run. Their late run was accomplished without Bynam and with Gasol playing himself in (which he did very well). To top it off, Celtics players and coaches had a spectacular history of not getting out of 1st round (Doc and KG for the most part) and haven't had a _team_ since the 80's (for so long being PP show PP and Toine show).
Your eyes are not deceiving you Brick. LAL chocked at some level. In some matchups nature just took its course - Ray Allen is Ray Allen and Vujacic is just Vujacic when chips are down. KG choked in Game 5, but Gasol is still infinitely softer player as was evident in Game 6. And midway through 3rd last night LAL players just quit. They didn't want any part of Celtics defense. That was most telling to me. Any time Celtics went into that defensive frenzy, diving all over the floor, never giving up on a play, it was game over.
As an aside, if anything from this series will stay with me it's that Lakers are soft as Charmin. They wouldn't be able to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. After all those years when Kings were questioned and portrayed as talented but soft team, we have LAL team that is 10x more obviously so and it's not really discussed.
Jerryaki
Starter
that's hard to say, since douby hasn't been given enough run here to show if he's got what it takes. same thing with rondo. had we picked farmar or rondo, would they have progressed in the same manner? i'd venture no, so it's more of a problem with our current environment than with douby/farmar/rondo/whoever the heck we draft.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
There is no doubt the slapped together nature of the Celtics was a bit of an impediment to them too, I think especially in the early rounds while they sorted it out. But the experience gap in that slapdash was pretty vast. Only Perkins and Rondo lacked deep playoff experience in the main rotation, and if you addded up total playoff games between the two teams it would not surprise me to see 2 or 3x the experience for Boston.
Boston was not perfect -- they were "new" too. But they were a "new" team of battle hardened vets, whereas the Lakers are talented, but this really is the first go around for most of them. And yes they are soft -- talented, but soft. And going forward the question will be whether they, like many teams before them, get toughened up by the deep playoff push, or whether they stagnate.
Geoff
Starter
For them laker fans who want artest...this is from ESPN
The Lakers would like to bring in Sacramento's Ron Artest, who attended a few Lakers games at Staples Center in these playoffs and was in the TD Banknorth Garden on Tuesday. He was wearing a "Property of Kings" t-shirt, and he'll remain that way unless he opts out of his contract this summer. He said he doesn't plan to do so.
"If you're in a foxhole with somebody, you don't want to jump out of the foxhole because of some gold," Artest said.
Artest got props from me for that one...
The Lakers would like to bring in Sacramento's Ron Artest, who attended a few Lakers games at Staples Center in these playoffs and was in the TD Banknorth Garden on Tuesday. He was wearing a "Property of Kings" t-shirt, and he'll remain that way unless he opts out of his contract this summer. He said he doesn't plan to do so.
"If you're in a foxhole with somebody, you don't want to jump out of the foxhole because of some gold," Artest said.
Artest got props from me for that one...
C Diddy
Starter
I was able to determine via Google that Boston has a total of 474 playoff game experience. The Lakers I don't think have half of that. Its easy to forget that guys like House, Pollard, PJ Brown, Cassell, etc all have a ton of playoff experience. The Lakers only have Bryant, Odom and Fisher with significant playoff experience. Gasol has only played a handful of games, and I can't off the top of my head think of any guys on the Lakers bench that have played any playoff games. Farmar, Vujacic, Turiaf, Ariza...
DocHolliday
Starter
Where do you get that tanking had anything to do with this. They did not draft two young star caliber players. They traded a punch of garbage and 1 potential future star for Garnett, and Allen.
Tanking had nothing to do with this. The right place, the right time, with a lot of luck sprinkled in had everything to do with this.
Tanking had nothing to do with this. The right place, the right time, with a lot of luck sprinkled in had everything to do with this.
Jerryaki
Starter
i disagree with that. tanking/losing/rebuilding was what allowed them to get those two all-star players, who then lured in the vets for cheap.
LoungeLizard
Starter
Amen brother.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Tanking certainly helped here -- they tanked, missed on the real goal, which was to get Oden of course, but still used their Top 5 thanks to tanking pick to nab Ray Allen. And Ray Allen is what softened KG to going to play for them (and of course they traded away almost all the young guys they had accumlated from years of sucking to get him). If they fight for #8 and are picking #16 there is no Ray Allen, and if there is no Ray Allen there is no KG
High draft picks -- the lifeblood of any rebuild, wehther you use them to pick, or use them to trade. Megaassets.
bozzwell
Starter
Absolutely spot on. If anything 08 Celts have proven that _tanking_ always pays off. They tanked, if they got 1st or 2nd pick they get a future superstar potential in Durrant/Oden. They got 5th which turned out to be Allen, which swayed KG, etc.
2008 Celts are poster child for why tanking works and all other GM's should take note of that. I don't like it, I think it has a corrupting effect on the competitiivness of NBA, but no one can now deny that it works and it works well.
bibbinator
Bench
KG's interview immediately following the game was amazing. He was in an out of body state, he could barely bring himself down enough to acknowledge the interviewer.
RKid
Bench
LOL if you think that Geoff is as dumb as Chris Wallace or that he will do it because he likes the lakers(like Wallace did because West was his mentor) you are crazy. The Maloofs would also never help the lakers like that and just because you ripped one team off in a deal doesn't mean you can repeatedly do it.
You are saying Mitch can make any deal, yeah he might've gotten Gasol for Kwame with help from West but he also dealt Butler FOR Kwame in the first place.
JerN820
Bench
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