Kings waiving papa morphed into Vlade sucks

[pdxKingsFan]

It's funny because I like PapaG and hope he succeeds. He just came into the league about 10 years too late. I always felt he could develop into a good backup for Cousins. Unfortunately for him the make-up of the team has changed into one where his style of play would no longer fit if he became ready.

From what I saw of him he was slow and lost but he was good in the U18s and maybe if he had been developed properly he could have or could be ready when he reaches his mid 20s. I don't think our organization has proven particularly adept at raising mid-level talent, we kind of get guys that can go or they can't, but I don't think Papa's failure is on us either. He just isn't ready. And we can't afford to stash him.

 

[Livinthedream]

Hey - I'm not a Vlade apologist. I think he's made plenty of mistakes and have said so. He's also made some good moves and I've credited him for that. Like many Kings fans, I often find myself in between the extremists. Those who want to praise and defend Vlade at every turn, and those who want him on the ends of their pitchforks. I find both extremes tiresome. But most of all I find the kneejerk reactions to fire players, coaches, GMs and owners to be adolescent. Don't wrap yourself in a Kings flag and spew hate. Anybody who has that much hate for the team they love really ought to go find another team. I'm all for well-deserved criticism, but there's a huge gulf between that and the hate I see on this board. Sorry, VF, but that's how I feel.

Agreed. There is also a distinction between not liking a move Vlade made and not liking Vlade.

Everyone should take a deep breath and recognize when the argument is about specific situations and not the man himself.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Agreed. There is also a distinction between not liking a move Vlade made and not liking Vlade.

Everyone should take a deep breath and recognize when the argument is about specific situations and not the man himself.

I don’t mind Vlade personally. I put more of the blame on Vivek for hiring someone unproven without experience.

The fact remains that there is unproven stewardship of the franchise that the fans can’t have confidence in, and that nearly every trade, other than the 2016 nba draft, has been a deficit.

Williams was answering a large part of the questions so maybe Vlade won’t have unilateral say going forward..?

And as a fan, I don’t want the organization taking courses of action that I am against. I wanted assets, not mentor ship last year. When the franchise takes whole courses of action that I disagree with, what can I do as a fan?

Zach’s second year....

 

[fansinceday1]

Y'all can argue about whether vlade is good or not till the cows come home, it's all moot. Vlade gave himself till next year for the kings to make the playoffs and well, minus vlade pulling a shamrock out of his arse, we're not making the playoffs. Vlade will be gone and well, we'll be starting over yet again. Wooooohoooo........kangz

 

[ovrush]

couldn't we simply bring Papa back since it sounds like we're going to be waiving Joe Johnson if we felt like there was anything there at all?

 

[VF21]

Y'all can argue about whether vlade is good or not till the cows come home, it's all moot. Vlade gave himself till next year for the kings to make the playoffs and well, minus vlade pulling a shamrock out of his arse, we're not making the playoffs. Vlade will be gone and well, we'll be starting over yet again. Wooooohoooo........kangz

If Vivek is satisfied with Vlade's performance, he won't be going anywhere.

 

[fansinceday1]

If Vivek is satisfied with Vlade's performance, he won't be going anywhere.

If vlades word means anything, he will bow out like he said he would.

 

[VF21]

If vlades word means anything, he will bow out like he said he would.

Yeah, whatever.

 

[fansinceday1]

 

[206Fan]

I could argue with several of these but I don't have all day and formatting takes FOREVER on my phone, so I'll just address two.

The latter here is simply incorrect. The Malachi/Caboclo trade was independent of the Hill trade. We initially thought that Malachi was being turned into Caboclo to make it cheaper to cut him, but it turns out the cut was Papa. We turned Malachi into Caboclo straight up, so that we could give a young, tall, long, athletic 3 a chance. With Malachi rotting on the bench and plenty of potential minutes for a big wing, this is reasonable. Regardless, he was NOT a casualty of the Hill trade.

The former makes me think you could find a way to complain about literally anything. A rebuilding team with money to spend brings in a high-character Hall Of Fame player as a mentor on a one year deal worth about the MLE. Everybody on the roster and the coaching staff raves about him. All the young kids talk about how great he is as a mentor. And we had nothing else we were going to do with the money anyway. And you COMPLAIN?!?! I mean if that's worth complaining about, then Vlade adopting a puppy would probably make your list somewhere.

Yeah addressing the rest doesn't help your point because there is no logic at all to what Vlade was doing. The Malachi/PapaG thing is a wash. Fine, we gave up the former 13th overall pick to unload George Hill. It doesn't sound any better.

Who else in the open market was going to pay 39yearold Vince $9million? Absolutely no one.

 

[206Fan]

The Philly trade The Vlade antagontists #1 one point of attack. JT, Landry and Sauce have never played any meaningful NBA minutes since that trade. So the value of those 3 was/is less than zero. The pick swaps were NOTHING. The 2019 pick is looming pretty large I will give you that. It remains to be seen what Vlade does with Koufos and Belenelli-->Malachi-->Bruno remain as another attempt to make rain from the salary cap room created by that deal. You and others want to make this Philly deal out to be one of the worst trades in NBA history. That is simply not true

I'm sorry, but it's absolutely biased to not think that the Stauskas trade is one of the worst we've seen. The pick swap was nothing? Philly swapped our #3 for their #5.. but ok..it didn't mean anything.

It was a horrific trade.

 

[206Fan]

Much of the rest of your argument is based on the Vets currently on the team and the 2016 draft. It was a very poor draft. Who in the first round of the 2016 draft after pick number 11 would you have chosen besides Papa and Mal? My argument is that Vlade turned the #8 pick into Bogie and Skal which is pretty darn good IMO.

It's like saying we got Isaiah at #60 so it doesn't matter that we selected Jimmer at #10. I can't agree with this logic at all. Every move stands alone.

 

[hrdboild]

Boston is more or less like a second home town to me. I just think comparing them - their history, the fact that they had a super team assemble themselves and Ainge was just there, not to mention his buddy was the GM for the team that made the trade to put it together - to Sacramento, which is basically an NBA dump except for a 6 year stretch, doesn't work.

Then throw in malicious, meddling ownership followed by horrific incompetence and it takes a few years to right the ship. Vlade made some rookie mistakes. I think he's recovered pretty nicely. People raved about his offseason last year. Why are we killing the guy over the crap he did his first season? He even gave his own timeline which most GMs would never do, so why not see that out? It's one more season, for what that's worth.

Hey, I can turn around this giant cluster-f or I'm out in 4 seasons? That's swag, even if it's misguided. I like it.

I'm not convinced the next guy will do any better.

I generally try to be amenable (except on draft day) and I've tried for years to give Vlade the benefit of the doubt. But this is my main problem right now:

If we're grading on a curve we'll never get out of the basement.

It shouldn't matter that Boston has 17 championships and we have none. What kind of winning history did San Antonio have before Greg Popovich got there? What about Utah before Jerry Sloan? Proving that you can build a winning team attracts players who want to win which in turn helps you to keep winning. We're the exact opposite. All we've proven is that we know how to lose and that cycle is also self-perpetuating. We can all thank our lucky stars that we can still watch NBA basketball and occasionally have a competent player or two with Sacramento on their jersey. I suppose that's fine if that's your attitude. Sports aren't just about winning after all. But to the extent that I want to watch a team win some games in the playoffs and challenge the self-appointed elite of the league I have to hold this franchise to the same standard as the Boston Celtics because that's our competition.

Even if you want to argue that Vlade isn't awful.. that he's made some mistakes and learned from them. Are you prepared to argue that he's better than average? Because better than average still isn't good enough. In this market with our history and current perception across the league about as low as it could possibly get its going to take genius level management to get us into regular playoff contention. There's no way Vlade is capable of that based on everything I've seen. Mozart didn't start out making Limp Bizkit tracks in his garage and then stumble across Symphony No. 40 in his late thirties. The best thing Vlade has done is draft De'Aaron Fox. You know what the odds were that we'd win that no. 3 pick that turned into Philly's no. 5 pick? 4%. Our odds of landing in the top 3 were about 10%. That means 90% of the time Vlade makes that DeMarcus trade we end up with a Dennis Smith or Frank Ntilikina or Jason Collins instead. We got damned lucky for once and we're still the worst team in the league.

Let's take it one step further.. We had $40 million in cap space last summer and Vlade turned it into "retirement tour" Vince Carter and two guys the fans have spent most of the season wishing they would go away. I was one of the few people here defending George Hill. Cleveland is contending and wanted him. We took back a bunch of junk and burned two rookie contracts to get rid of him. Why? Because he was blocking Fox? No he wasn't. Fox is third on the team in minutes played and Hill is seventh. Because he sucked? He had the second highest WS/48 on the team. As of today he is leading the league in 3pt shooting percentage. As in first overall. That is the number one stat everybody cares about right now! The whole damn league is 3pt crazy. He was not a negative asset even though Vlade treated him like one for some reason.

This is not a knee jerk reaction for me. It's been slowly building the entire time Vlade has been the GM. This is just the last straw. In terms of understanding what the value of players and draft picks are around the league Vlade is on his own planet. Of course everybody loves him! He's giving away nice things for free. You want my unprotected pick? Sure. You want a knockdown shooter to compete with GS in the playoffs? No problem. You want an All NBA center? How about you trade me that mid lotto pick who's been slumping all year and we call it even? I bet he's the most popular guy in the room at all the GM parties. But this team isn't ever winning anything with him in charge. You can ignore all the signs if you choose to but man, those signs are 100 meters high and outlined in blinding neon lights. He just hasn't got it. Few do. Why waste even more time hoping he'll become something he's not?

Edit: Here's the other thing that has got me heated. After the DeMarcus trade people were saying "see I told you he has no value, look at what Vlade got for him". Now people are doing the same thing with George Hill. "See, I told you he was negative value". No. You don't get to do that. DeMarcus was having an MVP level season this year and we all knew it was coming. That Vlade got a fringe All-Star level return is irrelevant to how good he actually is. Same goes for George Hill who will now be the starting PG on a team that hopes to make it to the Finals. All this proves is that we have a GM who consistently undervalues his own assets because other teams make their opening lowball offers and he thinks that's the best he can get. Think about what that means for a minute... this is not a situation that has any chance of succeeding.

 

[VF21]

I edited the title of the thread since it seems to have become more about discontent with Vlade than anything else. Might as well just have a place for it.

 

[Suicide King]

Except the lack of protection around the pick. That is amateur hour. Vlade had made many mistakes in his time here but he has also done some good and some solid stuff. People don’t agree with the approach so they think the would do a better job hence the outcry. If it was as easy as they make it out to be, they would be a GM on an NbA team and not a wanna be on a fan forum.

Bravo my friend

 

[mac]

I generally try to be amenable (except on draft day) and I've tried for years to give Vlade the benefit of the doubt. But this is my main problem right now:

If we're grading on a curve we'll never get out of the basement.

It shouldn't matter that Boston has 17 championships and we have none. What kind of winning history did San Antonio have before Greg Popovich got there? What about Utah before Jerry Sloan? Proving that you can build a winning team attracts players who want to win which in turn helps you to keep winning. We're the exact opposite. All we've proven is that we know how to lose and that cycle is also self-perpetuating. We can all thank our lucky stars that we can still watch NBA basketball and occasionally have a competent player or two with Sacramento on their jersey. I suppose that's fine if that's your attitude. Sports aren't just about winning after all. But to the extent that I want to watch a team win some games in the playoffs and challenge the self-appointed elite of the league I have to hold this franchise to the same standard as the Boston Celtics because that's our competition.

Even if you want to argue that Vlade isn't awful.. that he's made some mistakes and learned from them. Are you prepared to argue that he's better than average? Because better than average still isn't good enough. In this market with our history and current perception across the league about as low as it could possibly get its going to take genius level management to get us into regular playoff contention. There's no way Vlade is capable of that based on everything I've seen. Mozart didn't start out making Limp Bizkit tracks in his garage and then stumble across Symphony No. 40 in his late thirties. The best thing Vlade has done is draft De'Aaron Fox. You know what the odds were that we'd win that no. 3 pick that turned into Philly's no. 5 pick? 4%. Our odds of landing in the top 3 were about 10%. That means 90% of the time Vlade makes that DeMarcus trade we end up with a Dennis Smith or Frank Ntilikina or Jason Collins instead. We got damned lucky for once and we're still the worst team in the league.

Let's take it one step further.. We had $40 million in cap space last summer and Vlade turned it into "retirement tour" Vince Carter and two guys the fans have spent most of the season wishing they would go away. I was one of the few people here defending George Hill. Cleveland is contending and wanted him. We took back a bunch of junk and burned two rookie contracts to get rid of him. Why? Because he was blocking Fox? No he wasn't. Fox is third on the team in minutes played and Hill is seventh. Because he sucked? He had the second highest WS/48 on the team. As of today he is leading the league in 3pt shooting percentage. As in first overall. That is the number one stat everybody cares about right now! The whole damn league is 3pt crazy. He was not a negative asset even though Vlade treated him like one for some reason.

This is not a knee jerk reaction for me. It's been slowly building the entire time Vlade has been the GM. This is just the last straw. In terms of understanding what the value of players and draft picks are around the league Vlade is on his own planet. Of course everybody loves him! He's giving away nice things for free. You want my unprotected pick? Sure. You want a knockdown shooter to compete with GS in the playoffs? No problem. You want an All NBA center? How about you trade me that mid lotto pick who's been slumping all year and we call it even? I bet he's the most popular guy in the room at all the GM parties. But this team isn't ever winning anything with him in charge. You can ignore all the signs if you choose to but man, those signs are 100 meters high and outlined in blinding neon lights. He just hasn't got it. Few do. Why waste even more time hoping he'll become something he's not?

Edit: Here's the other thing that has got me heated. After the DeMarcus trade people were saying "see I told you he has no value, look at what Vlade got for him". Now people are doing the same thing with George Hill. "See, I told you he was negative value". No. You don't get to do that. DeMarcus was having an MVP level season this year and we all knew it was coming. That Vlade got a fringe All-Star level return is irrelevant to how good he actually is. Same goes for George Hill who will now be the starting PG on a team that hopes to make it to the Finals. All this proves is that we have a GM who consistently undervalues his own assets because other teams make their opening lowball offers and he thinks that's the best he can get. Think about what that means for a minute... this is not a situation that has any chance of succeeding.

On Hill - him being starting PG on the Cavs doesn't tell you much about his value ON THIS TEAM, which was proven by his play for half a season. Hill was never going to be part of the future here. Memphis ended up not trading Tyreke because they held out as you would have had Vlade do. I'm not saying that we got the best value back, but your continued insistence that George Hill was some great player for the Kings and an undervalued asset just by looking at a bunch of stats and watching two Kings games all year is bordering on lunacy.

 

[Suicide King]

1) Papa - Does not fit the current meta. Has had at least one blow up arguing with coach Joerger caught on film ( when I find it again I will post) after a bone headed move. Where there is one, likely there are more. Not a good look for Papa.
2) Richardson- Was struck with injuries sadly at the most inopportune times. Further, was stuck behind our biggest logjam i.e. SG. Which leads me to:

For the last several seasons we have been completely inept at SG. Just awful. Vlade ( whom by the way I am not star struck by or nostalgic for, because he is our GM to me. Period. The rest is separate.) loaded up on promising players at the 2. The creme rises to the top, by virtue of talent or good health. Sucks for Malichai and I wish him the best.

Since this thread was supposed to be about Papa, I'll try and get back on track. Difficult with all the nonsense posted since the trade deadline passed.

Vlade must have seen something he liked in Papa. Well enough to take him 13th. Rumor was others were interested in him. Now that may have been smoke and mirrors by rival GM's. Baiting Vlade into grabbing the big man. Doesn't matter.

Now, I know what my eyes told me watching Papa. He along with many other bigs who would have been perfect even 5 years ago, better realize that the slow lumbering big banger is no longer welcome in todays NBA. Not unless you are damn good at what you are ( Steven Adams, Deandre Jordan) . I have no ill will against Papa, but he was a mistake to draft. Now, was the mistake with Vlade for seeing something that wasn't there? Or was the mistake with Papa? Yeah, he slimmed down some which I applauded. However, there HAD to be something else to turn Vlade off from his project Big. That brings me back to the blowup.

Papa has been starved for opportunities to show what he can offer after so much time developing in the G-League. He gets a few minutes and makes a bone headed pass to Buddy after 3 minutes played. Once pulled, he proceeds to jaw with THE COACH, as if he has earned that right. As if he is a superstar who made a rare mistake. This was very recent and I will keep looking for the footage. Feel free to look yourself. It's out there and I doubt it was a one off.

The fact is, Vlade came to the conclusion he made a mistake ( as every GM does, including the infallible R.C. Buford, the "great" Danny Ainge, etc).
Where Vlade separated himself from the Pete D'Alessandro's is he owned it by cutting bait and moving on, rather than hoping year after year his mistake would save face for him and have a miraculous AHA! moment.

Now I will speak personally and will keep it strictly Kings related because we all have trials and tribulations that other posters could not care less about ( some might ).

Tensions are high. We suck! Not a revelation for anyone on this board,because, we knew we would. This is what a true tear it down and build it back up in someone's specific vision rebuild feels like. Sadly, we have a LONG way to go before G1C is rocking like the ARCO THUNDER days of yesteryear. I do not think Vlade is the best GM, nor do I think he is the worst. I do think he is doing what he thinks is best, while also having to shift ( prior to the Boogie trade which would place the Papa pick before then) to a fluid situation he stepped into, to clean up as best he can, because he feels a connection. Again I will reiterate I am not a Vlade apologist and could point out many things done that I do not like.

I will say this to close my rant that will probably be taken the wrong way, as I think we have a very informed and intelligent bevy of posters here. If you are criticizing Vlade for not giving Papa more time to miraculously become an outlier in today's league, then I do not see how you can choose this very hill to make your stand, and cut bait with Vlade as GM. He gave a timeline. Let him see it through. If the team we all love does not look exorbitantly better at the end of next season, you have every right to proclaim no confidence in his leadership. Hell, I'll join you.

 

[AleksandarN]

I generally try to be amenable (except on draft day) and I've tried for years to give Vlade the benefit of the doubt. But this is my main problem right now:

If we're grading on a curve we'll never get out of the basement.

It shouldn't matter that Boston has 17 championships and we have none. What kind of winning history did San Antonio have before Greg Popovich got there? What about Utah before Jerry Sloan? Proving that you can build a winning team attracts players who want to win which in turn helps you to keep winning. We're the exact opposite. All we've proven is that we know how to lose and that cycle is also self-perpetuating. We can all thank our lucky stars that we can still watch NBA basketball and occasionally have a competent player or two with Sacramento on their jersey. I suppose that's fine if that's your attitude. Sports aren't just about winning after all. But to the extent that I want to watch a team win some games in the playoffs and challenge the self-appointed elite of the league I have to hold this franchise to the same standard as the Boston Celtics because that's our competition.

Even if you want to argue that Vlade isn't awful.. that he's made some mistakes and learned from them. Are you prepared to argue that he's better than average? Because better than average still isn't good enough. In this market with our history and current perception across the league about as low as it could possibly get its going to take genius level management to get us into regular playoff contention. There's no way Vlade is capable of that based on everything I've seen. Mozart didn't start out making Limp Bizkit tracks in his garage and then stumble across Symphony No. 40 in his late thirties. The best thing Vlade has done is draft De'Aaron Fox. You know what the odds were that we'd win that no. 3 pick that turned into Philly's no. 5 pick? 4%. Our odds of landing in the top 3 were about 10%. That means 90% of the time Vlade makes that DeMarcus trade we end up with a Dennis Smith or Frank Ntilikina or Jason Collins instead. We got damned lucky for once and we're still the worst team in the league.

Let's take it one step further.. We had $40 million in cap space last summer and Vlade turned it into "retirement tour" Vince Carter and two guys the fans have spent most of the season wishing they would go away. I was one of the few people here defending George Hill. Cleveland is contending and wanted him. We took back a bunch of junk and burned two rookie contracts to get rid of him. Why? Because he was blocking Fox? No he wasn't. Fox is third on the team in minutes played and Hill is seventh. Because he sucked? He had the second highest WS/48 on the team. As of today he is leading the league in 3pt shooting percentage. As in first overall. That is the number one stat everybody cares about right now! The whole damn league is 3pt crazy. He was not a negative asset even though Vlade treated him like one for some reason.

This is not a knee jerk reaction for me. It's been slowly building the entire time Vlade has been the GM. This is just the last straw. In terms of understanding what the value of players and draft picks are around the league Vlade is on his own planet. Of course everybody loves him! He's giving away nice things for free. You want my unprotected pick? Sure. You want a knockdown shooter to compete with GS in the playoffs? No problem. You want an All NBA center? How about you trade me that mid lotto pick who's been slumping all year and we call it even? I bet he's the most popular guy in the room at all the GM parties. But this team isn't ever winning anything with him in charge. You can ignore all the signs if you choose to but man, those signs are 100 meters high and outlined in blinding neon lights. He just hasn't got it. Few do. Why waste even more time hoping he'll become something he's not?

Edit: Here's the other thing that has got me heated. After the DeMarcus trade people were saying "see I told you he has no value, look at what Vlade got for him". Now people are doing the same thing with George Hill. "See, I told you he was negative value". No. You don't get to do that. DeMarcus was having an MVP level season this year and we all knew it was coming. That Vlade got a fringe All-Star level return is irrelevant to how good he actually is. Same goes for George Hill who will now be the starting PG on a team that hopes to make it to the Finals. All this proves is that we have a GM who consistently undervalues his own assets because other teams make their opening lowball offers and he thinks that's the best he can get. Think about what that means for a minute... this is not a situation that has any chance of succeeding.

What was George hill stats this year? You tell me his trade value then?

 

[AleksandarN]

It's like saying we got Isaiah at #60 so it doesn't matter that we selected Jimmer at #10. I can't agree with this logic at all. Every move stands alone.

Yes I agree every move stands alone. And his trade to get Bogs and take a flyer on the draft was the correct one. He mitigated the risk of having one player in a superweak draft to having three shots of getting something remotely good. That move alone was great. So what is your point again?

 

[AleksandarN]

Yeah addressing the rest doesn't help your point because there is no logic at all to what Vlade was doing. The Malachi/PapaG thing is a wash. Fine, we gave up the former 13th overall pick to unload George Hill. It doesn't sound any better.

Who else in the open market was going to pay 39yearold Vince $9million? Absolutely no one.

For us to reach the salary floor we needed spend. Who would you wanted us to sign then?

 

[gunks]

Horrendous moves aside (I really only count the Philly trade as a Vlade owned franchise crusher, the Cuz trade had Vivek's stink all over it) Vlade got us a core of:

PG: Fox/Mason
SG: Bogs/Buddy
SF: Jackson
Bigs: WCS/Skal/Giles

We have a few really high upside kids. If one or two breaks out next year, and if we get a keeper this draft, we could be looking at a killer core.

I'm on "Team (not quite losing) Patience"... Fox might make a huge jump next year. Giles could live up to the hype. Bogs, Buddy, and WCS are all looking like great complimentary pieces at the least. Skal remains a major wild card. And I know most of you guys hate lins, but this draft is looking like it has a TON of major talent in the top 6-7.

We'll know if it's pitchfork time in a year or so. Vlade needs to step his trade game up though.

 

[John Galt]

One time on this board, 1998 I believe it was... I saw a person articulate a point of view so well that it changed somebody else's mind about the coach or GM.... oh wait.. no that never has ever ever ever ever ever happened one single time since I've been on KF.com... never mind.

 

[AleksandarN]

One time on this board, 1998 I believe it was... I saw a person articulate a point of view so well that it changed somebody else's mind about the coach or GM.... oh wait.. no that never has ever ever ever ever ever happened one single time since I've been on KF.com... never mind.

Lol

 

[The_Jamal]

It's like saying we got Isaiah at #60 so it doesn't matter that we selected Jimmer at #10. I can't agree with this logic at all. Every move stands alone.

Feel like you me and hrd are on crazy island in this thread. I don't think at all what we've been saying is that outrageous: That Vlade has made some good moves, but he's made far more bad mistakes that have cost us (and going to cost us) in the future.

 

[hrdboild]

On Hill - him being starting PG on the Cavs doesn't tell you much about his value ON THIS TEAM, which was proven by his play for half a season. Hill was never going to be part of the future here. Memphis ended up not trading Tyreke because they held out as you would have had Vlade do. I'm not saying that we got the best value back, but your continued insistence that George Hill was some great player for the Kings and an undervalued asset just by looking at a bunch of stats and watching two Kings games all year is bordering on lunacy.

It's not about the stats its about the fit. Teams that are winning right now care about two things: 3pt shooting and defending the 3pt shot. For his entire career George Hill has consistently done both of those things. There's no stat that competently measures defense. Everything is team dependent so you have to look at a player in context of the team they're on and then estimate based on available information how that team measures up to the rest of the league. 3pt shooting is measurable in a very direct way and yet somehow that doesn't seem to be enough for some people...

I haven't taken a break from watching basketball, I just watch other teams. I think the people who are in the bubble of the Sacramento Kings watching every game and living through the ups and downs are uniquely unequipped to make objective judgements about these players. They form a narrative and then start looking for data that supports it. I'm trying to tell you based on the direction the league is going that a player like George Hill has never been more valuable than he is right now. Clearly that value is minimized on a team that's competing for a draft pick not a championship but that doesn't mean we should be trading him based on his value to our situation. If I have two Ferraris and don't want to pay the insurance premium on both anymore I'm still going to sell the extra one at the value of the car not give it away and call it "addition by subtraction". That's an extreme example, obviously George Hill is not a Ferrari. Maybe a really nice road bike? In any case, the point is he fits the meta which means he has value. He's going to help Cleveland win and they got to clear out some useless contracts as a bonus. Good for them. But if you're not getting better and other teams are getting better that means you're getting worse (or to be more accurate, falling further behind).

Understanding the value of your assets to other teams is the job. It's the only way you can move an asset that you don't mind giving up and get something that you want in return. Vlade has demonstrated on at least three occasions now that he either doesn't understand the concept or he isn't able to extrapolate "league present value" as distinct from "Kings present value".

 

[ockingsfan]

This summer is going to be huge for Vlade and the Kings.

Vlade really needs to nail the 2018 lottery pick. He needs that player to be a big time stud. The Kings need to be very competitive in 2019.

There is really no way around it. We don't have a pick in 2019 and if that pick turns into a top 3 pick, I can see the pitchforks coming in Sactown.

I will give Vlade this summer to prove his worth. If he gets us a big time stud in the lottery, all is forgiven.

 

[Livinthedream]

Feel like you me and hrd are on crazy island in this thread. I don't think at all what we've been saying is that outrageous: That Vlade has made some good moves, but he's made far more bad mistakes that have cost us (and going to cost us) in the future.

I'm right there with you guys. I just have a hard time writing lengthy posts to explain the obvious. You guys are much more patient and better at it.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

I'm sorry, but it's absolutely biased to not think that the Stauskas trade is one of the worst we've seen. The pick swap was nothing? Philly swapped our #3 for their #5.. but ok..it didn't mean anything.

It was a horrific trade.

Did the swap affect whom we drafted? No, it did not. I know a litany of trade hypotheticals surrounding the #3 pick are inbound, though.

Many have forgotten that Vlade’s mission statement when he was hired was to make the first concerted effort to build around Cousins. We made the Sixers trade to facilitate that. We were unable to sign the right kind of talent to make it happen. Part of that was the Kings reputation, but it seemed to be 50/50 with Boogie’s reputation. Players do the recruiting now, and despite his connections to Team USA, Boogie was unable to assist Vlade in recruiting any major talent. We also brought in a coach with the perfect system to max Cousins’ talent, and we still languished. I believe Boogie proved to be a #2 option, at best, on a real playoff team and we decided we could not afford a supermax for that level of player.

We actually got good value for Boogie if one looks at what other stars have gone for recently. Buddy and the #10 pick is a lot better than, say, essentially just the Brooklyn pick for Kyrie.

We should be optimistic about free agency. The NBA landscape is not the same as 30 years ago. We also have the kind of young talent that would be appealing to other teams if one of the big time RFAs wanted to force a sign and trade to the Kings—keep that in mind. Or, we have the space to absorb a big contract if Lebron moves to LA and decides to make some roster adjustments. I will repeat what I have said elsewhere—Lebron is not playing with Lonzo. There is a 0% chance that Lebron will allow himself to be affiliated with the BBB brand in any way whatsoever.

 

[King Baller]

It's like saying we got Isaiah at #60 so it doesn't matter that we selected Jimmer at #10. I can't agree with this logic at all. Every move stands alone.

Ah, but that trade was one move Pick #8 became Bogie and Skal. It was a win for Vlade and the Kings!

 

[King Baller]

Look up Guerschon Yabusele, Vlade could have drafted him instead