Kings waiving papa morphed into Vlade sucks

[JCTNKINGFAN]

I am a little sad for Papa, he seemed like a good kid. He worked really hard to get his body in shape and you could see the results of that, but unfortunately, the hard work did not seem to translate well to basketball skills. He just seemed wooden and always a step slow. He did set a mean screen and camped out under the basket he got a fair share of rebounds, but in the modern NBA his lack of mobility and any kind of speed would always limit his effectiveness.

He made some money and got some NBA experience and he may latch on with a G-League team (even the Kings?). Although, more likely, he will play in Europe or somewhere overseas where is NBA experience may prove a benefit.

 

[upinsmoke]

I have been reading messages on this board for a long time. Really enjoy it, by far the best Kings board out there. I decided to finally sign up and post.

The Kings move continue to baffle me.

1) I do not agree with trading back in any draft. How many times of all of pro sports have traded back recently? The Cleveland Browns and us? Donovan Mitchell?

2) The kings cannot afford to miss over and over in the draft. I was NOT a fan of taking Papa but we took him, so therefore Vlade needed to give him time. Skal is Skal, any Kentucky fan will tell you his story.

Vlade is clueless. How are we getting better? The light at the end of the tunnel is a freight train coming.

Welcome. To be fair coming home with Fox, Jackson, Giles and Mason is looking pretty good in its own right at least that's how I see it. Combined with WCS Bogs and Buddy I like what we got brewing. Papa was a bad pick in a bad draft it is what is. As for Skal he was only at Kentucky for a few months that's not where his story is going to be written and it appears he made the cut in year 2.

 

[206Fan]

I like Vlade’s judgement on players. You can’t have winners like he has had without he chance of fald packs. He s own man and he has a keen eye. I’ll stick with hm as GM of the Kings as long as he wants to keep it. It’s sad to see so much negative judgement by our members.

The only reason why he got this job in the first place was because he's a former fan-favorite. He has not demonstrated that he's qualified or even good enough to the a NBA GM. Look at the poor moves he made.

1. Trade Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, 2016 1st round pick swap, 2017 1st round pick swap, and unprotected 2019 1st round pick for: NOTHING. How can you possibly defend this trade?
2. Offer 28yearold Wes Matthews a max contract coming off an Achilles injury. He has been horrible since that injury for the Mavs. Easily would've been one of the worst contracts in the league.
3. Signed Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli thinking we could make a playoff push.
4. Drafted Papagiannis at #13 overall despite no one having him that high, and despite already having the best C in the league, AND pissing him off. Papagiannis was such a wasted pick. I don't want to stretch things here, but the only logical reason why Vlade drafted him this high is because he overvalues European bigs. You can find guys with Papagiannis skills and size all over the NCAA.
5. Drafted Malachi at #22
6. Traded Cousins without getting fair value for him
7. Sign George Hill to a terrible deal
8. Sign 36yearold ZBo to a 2-year deal averaging $12million
9. Pay 40yearold Vince Carter $8million to be a mentor (what a great use of cap space)
10. Had to trade Malachi in order to dump George Hill's terrible contract
11. Waive the former #13 pick

I'm not going to say he's doing a good job with a rebuild yet. Not until we see Randolph, VC, and Temple start getting DNPs. Those guys should not be taking PT away from our young guys anymore than they already have. If Vlade is committed to this rebuild, he can't waste cap space on vets who are just looking for 1 last final payday.

If his name weren't Vlade Divac, he would've already been fired by now.

 

[ockingsfan]

My main problem with releasing Papa is that we could had easily had just waived VC and kept Papa.

A VC rental for 30 more games to mentor VS a 7'1" giant that is only 20 years old, with a chance to improve?

I would pick the 20 year old 7'1" giant everyday of the week.

My main issue with Vlade's decision is that I feel he is giving up to early on cheap, young talent, that still have upside.

 

[Gtronic]

Now let the coaches who worked so hard with Papa turn their attention to Bruno. I have a feeling the upside is much greater.

 

[King Baller]

The only reason why he got this job in the first place was because he's a former fan-favorite. He has not demonstrated that he's qualified or even good enough to the a NBA GM. Look at the poor moves he made.

1. Trade Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, 2016 1st round pick swap, 2017 1st round pick swap, and unprotected 2019 1st round pick for: NOTHING. How can you possibly defend this trade?
2. Offer 28yearold Wes Matthews a max contract coming off an Achilles injury. He has been horrible since that injury for the Mavs. Easily would've been one of the worst contracts in the league.
3. Signed Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli thinking we could make a playoff push.
4. Drafted Papagiannis at #13 overall despite no one having him that high, and despite already having the best C in the league, AND pissing him off. Papagiannis was such a wasted pick. I don't want to stretch things here, but the only logical reason why Vlade drafted him this high is because he overvalues European bigs. You can find guys with Papagiannis skills and size all over the NCAA.
5. Drafted Malachi at #22
6. Traded Cousins without getting fair value for him
7. Sign George Hill to a terrible deal
8. Sign 36yearold ZBo to a 2-year deal averaging $12million
9. Pay 40yearold Vince Carter $8million to be a mentor (what a great use of cap space)
10. Had to trade Malachi in order to dump George Hill's terrible contract
11. Waive the former #13 pick

I'm not going to say he's doing a good job with a rebuild yet. Not until we see Randolph, VC, and Temple start getting DNPs. Those guys should not be taking PT away from our young guys anymore than they already have. If Vlade is committed to this rebuild, he can't waste cap space on vets who are just looking for 1 last final payday.

If his name weren't Vlade Divac, he would've already been fired by now.

The Philly trade The Vlade antagontists #1 one point of attack. JT, Landry and Sauce have never played any meaningful NBA minutes since that trade. So the value of those 3 was/is less than zero. The pick swaps were NOTHING. The 2019 pick is looming pretty large I will give you that. It remains to be seen what Vlade does with Koufos and Belenelli-->Malachi-->Bruno remain as another attempt to make rain from the salary cap room created by that deal. You and others want to make this Philly deal out to be one of the worst trades in NBA history. That is simply not true

 

[rekehavoc123]

I obviously think that the Kings gave up too early on Papa. He could turn out to be the next Hassan Whiteside. I truly believe in Papa G even if its not on the Kings. I do see something there that Vlade saw in him, which he obviously gave up on and is why we need a new GM. Obviously I think fans were a little too harsh on him. Where he goes, I will be following him. My opinion In a couple of years he will come back to NBA, if he keeps up his conditioning and development because from his Gleague development he could obviously shoot, now his problem is on the defensive side, because in that Kings vs Pelicans game earlier this season I could see he couldn't guard anyone aka Demarcus Cousins, no one can and that has to do with his quickness and that's where he needs to develop and my opinion he played pretty well last season in limited minutes and averaged 5.9 ppg last year. In the Gleague this year he played well too. If I recall he played in a Gleague game a month ago where he put up 18 and 10 rebounds. I know that its the Gleague, but I think if he gets the chance to work on his game he will develop into NBA Center soon, my opinion.

 

[King Baller]

The only reason why he got this job in the first place was because he's a former fan-favorite. He has not demonstrated that he's qualified or even good enough to the a NBA GM. Look at the poor moves he made.

1. Trade Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, 2016 1st round pick swap, 2017 1st round pick swap, and unprotected 2019 1st round pick for: NOTHING. How can you possibly defend this trade?
2. Offer 28yearold Wes Matthews a max contract coming off an Achilles injury. He has been horrible since that injury for the Mavs. Easily would've been one of the worst contracts in the league.
3. Signed Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli thinking we could make a playoff push.
4. Drafted Papagiannis at #13 overall despite no one having him that high, and despite already having the best C in the league, AND pissing him off. Papagiannis was such a wasted pick. I don't want to stretch things here, but the only logical reason why Vlade drafted him this high is because he overvalues European bigs. You can find guys with Papagiannis skills and size all over the NCAA.
5. Drafted Malachi at #22
6. Traded Cousins without getting fair value for him
7. Sign George Hill to a terrible deal
8. Sign 36yearold ZBo to a 2-year deal averaging $12million
9. Pay 40yearold Vince Carter $8million to be a mentor (what a great use of cap space)
10. Had to trade Malachi in order to dump George Hill's terrible contract
11. Waive the former #13 pick

I'm not going to say he's doing a good job with a rebuild yet. Not until we see Randolph, VC, and Temple start getting DNPs. Those guys should not be taking PT away from our young guys anymore than they already have. If Vlade is committed to this rebuild, he can't waste cap space on vets who are just looking for 1 last final payday.

If his name weren't Vlade Divac, he would've already been fired by now.

Much of the rest of your argument is based on the Vets currently on the team and the 2016 draft. It was a very poor draft. Who in the first round of the 2016 draft after pick number 11 would you have chosen besides Papa and Mal? My argument is that Vlade turned the #8 pick into Bogie and Skal which is pretty darn good IMO.

 

[pshn80]

The only reason why he got this job in the first place was because he's a former fan-favorite. He has not demonstrated that he's qualified or even good enough to the a NBA GM. Look at the poor moves he made.

1. Trade Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, 2016 1st round pick swap, 2017 1st round pick swap, and unprotected 2019 1st round pick for: NOTHING. How can you possibly defend this trade?
2. Offer 28yearold Wes Matthews a max contract coming off an Achilles injury. He has been horrible since that injury for the Mavs. Easily would've been one of the worst contracts in the league.
3. Signed Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli thinking we could make a playoff push.
4. Drafted Papagiannis at #13 overall despite no one having him that high, and despite already having the best C in the league, AND pissing him off. Papagiannis was such a wasted pick. I don't want to stretch things here, but the only logical reason why Vlade drafted him this high is because he overvalues European bigs. You can find guys with Papagiannis skills and size all over the NCAA.
5. Drafted Malachi at #22
6. Traded Cousins without getting fair value for him
7. Sign George Hill to a terrible deal
8. Sign 36yearold ZBo to a 2-year deal averaging $12million
9. Pay 40yearold Vince Carter $8million to be a mentor (what a great use of cap space)
10. Had to trade Malachi in order to dump George Hill's terrible contract
11. Waive the former #13 pick

I'm not going to say he's doing a good job with a rebuild yet. Not until we see Randolph, VC, and Temple start getting DNPs. Those guys should not be taking PT away from our young guys anymore than they already have. If Vlade is committed to this rebuild, he can't waste cap space on vets who are just looking for 1 last final payday.

If his name weren't Vlade Divac, he would've already been fired by now.

We don’t agree. I view a number of your eleven as positives for the Kings and Vlade. His keen eye for talent and character and his presence when dealing with others were there when he was picked. In that case you err in discounting what he brought to the job. He has been and is a good GM to run my team.

 

[Dongoodboy]

Much of the rest of your argument is based on the Vets currently on the team and the 2016 draft. It was a very poor draft. Who in the first round of the 2016 draft after pick number 11 would you have chosen besides Papa and Mal? My argument is that Vlade turned the #8 pick into Bogie and Skal which is pretty darn good IMO.

I am disappointed about his poor management of assets. He didn’t make use of the asset on hand, dumping 2 first round pick after one and a half year is just a waste. Still you can say that trade was a win, but Other than this trade he is just underwhelming. He is easily one of the worst GM, now Kings is just keeping him for the sake of “stable”.

 

[Dongoodboy]

We don’t agree. I view a number of your eleven as positives for the Kings and Vlade. His keen eye for talent and character and his presence when dealing with others were there when he was picked. In that case you err in discounting what he brought to the job. He has been and is a good GM to run my team.

Eye for talent? Did we get a Donovan Mitchell out of our picks? There is no player he drafted that is a surefire franchise player as of now(Fox maybe but he is still some way from that). And the last point is just hilarious, try name one team that would want Vlade as GM, the answer is zero.

 

[Joer]

DeAaron Fox, Frank Mason, Harry Giles, Justin Jackson, and Bogdan Bogdanovic would beg to differ.

None of the above can carry a team. Still 3+ years away for them. Other than fox none of them has star potential. Bogdanovic will be a solid nba player. The others maybe,maybe role players.

 

[King Baller]

I am disappointed about his poor management of assets. He didn’t make use of the asset on hand, dumping 2 first round pick after one and a half year is just a waste. Still you can say that trade was a win, but Other than this trade he is just underwhelming. He is easily one of the worst GM, now Kings is just keeping him for the sake of “stable”.

I keep challenging you and the other Vlade antagonists which other player in the 2016 draft after Sabonis at pick 11 you would rather have? You might make a case for Dejounte Murray chosen by the Spurs at the end of the 1st round. The bottom line is it was a poor draft. Vlade did great coming out of it with Bogie and Skal.

 

[King Baller]

Eye for talent? Did we get a Donovan Mitchell out of our picks? There is no player he drafted that is a surefire franchise player as of now(Fox maybe but he is still some way from that). And the last point is just hilarious, try name one team that would want Vlade as GM, the answer is zero.

Every GM in the NBA had a shot at Mitchell Utah traded away Trey Lyles for that pick and hit it BIG. Give them props for it. How does that make a case to judge Vlade? Fox and JJ are doing well. Word is Giles is the real deal. Methinks you judge too harshly!

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The only reason why he got this job in the first place was because he's a former fan-favorite. He has not demonstrated that he's qualified or even good enough to the a NBA GM. Look at the poor moves he made.

I could argue with several of these but I don't have all day and formatting takes FOREVER on my phone, so I'll just address two.

1. Pay 40yearold Vince Carter $8million to be a mentor (what a great use of cap space)
2. Had to trade Malachi in order to dump George Hill's terrible contract.

The latter here is simply incorrect. The Malachi/Caboclo trade was independent of the Hill trade. We initially thought that Malachi was being turned into Caboclo to make it cheaper to cut him, but it turns out the cut was Papa. We turned Malachi into Caboclo straight up, so that we could give a young, tall, long, athletic 3 a chance. With Malachi rotting on the bench and plenty of potential minutes for a big wing, this is reasonable. Regardless, he was NOT a casualty of the Hill trade.

The former makes me think you could find a way to complain about literally anything. A rebuilding team with money to spend brings in a high-character Hall Of Fame player as a mentor on a one year deal worth about the MLE. Everybody on the roster and the coaching staff raves about him. All the young kids talk about how great he is as a mentor. And we had nothing else we were going to do with the money anyway. And you COMPLAIN?!?! I mean if that's worth complaining about, then Vlade adopting a puppy would probably make your list somewhere.

 

[The Effort Police]

I keep challenging you and the other Vlade antagonists which other player in the 2016 draft after Sabonis at pick 11 you would rather have? You might make a case for Dejounte Murray chosen by the Spurs at the end of the 1st round. The bottom line is it was a poor draft. Vlade did great coming out of it with Bogie and Skal.

All of them? There, that's my answer. Papagiannis might be the worst player in the league. Excuse me, he's not in the league anymore. These other guys still have jobs in the association.

The weak draft excuse doesn't fly. There was no reason for Vlade to value Papagiannis as a lottery pick in a weak draft or strong draft. It doesn't matter how many of the other draftees don't pan out; it's poor drafting period. Anyone worth any salt in an NBA front office could've told you he wasn't good. He was a projected second-rounder in 2016. Where does he go in an average draft? He probably doesn't.

 

[24 rick barry]

I'm afraid to say that you're right--- that giving away the unprotected 2019 1st round pick was the worst trade ever...though I'm not sure about the Wilt Chamberlain trade to Philly back in the day. However, If you were to combine that trade with the Cousins trade, then you would have established a poor track record. Vivek is simply too much of a competitor and businessman to accept this for much longer. Will the Kings really be better shape in about 1 year as Vlade proclaimed or will you be looking at low 20's in wins again next year. A rebuild would be taking on bad contracts to get draft picks. These draft picks would be combined for higher picks or traded for real players who can play. Add in free agency and you can be a playoff team at least top 16 out of 30 teams.
1. Trade Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, 2016 1st round pick swap, 2017 1st round pick swap, and unprotected 2019 1st round pick for: NOTHING. How can you possibly defend this trade?
2. Traded Cousins without getting fair value for him

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

The only reason why he got this job in the first place was because he's a former fan-favorite. He has not demonstrated that he's qualified or even good enough to the a NBA GM. Look at the poor moves he made.

1. Trade Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, 2016 1st round pick swap, 2017 1st round pick swap, and unprotected 2019 1st round pick for: NOTHING. How can you possibly defend this trade?
2. Offer 28yearold Wes Matthews a max contract coming off an Achilles injury. He has been horrible since that injury for the Mavs. Easily would've been one of the worst contracts in the league.
3. Signed Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli thinking we could make a playoff push.
4. Drafted Papagiannis at #13 overall despite no one having him that high, and despite already having the best C in the league, AND pissing him off. Papagiannis was such a wasted pick. I don't want to stretch things here, but the only logical reason why Vlade drafted him this high is because he overvalues European bigs. You can find guys with Papagiannis skills and size all over the NCAA.
5. Drafted Malachi at #22
6. Traded Cousins without getting fair value for him
7. Sign George Hill to a terrible deal
8. Sign 36yearold ZBo to a 2-year deal averaging $12million
9. Pay 40yearold Vince Carter $8million to be a mentor (what a great use of cap space)
10. Had to trade Malachi in order to dump George Hill's terrible contract
11. Waive the former #13 pick

I'm not going to say he's doing a good job with a rebuild yet. Not until we see Randolph, VC, and Temple start getting DNPs. Those guys should not be taking PT away from our young guys anymore than they already have. If Vlade is committed to this rebuild, he can't waste cap space on vets who are just looking for 1 last final payday.

If his name weren't Vlade Divac, he would've already been fired by now.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the only reason he is still here is because of who he is. If he was any other GM he would be gone by now. I'm a big Vlade fan, but the guy is just not a good GM. This was very, very poor asset management on his part.

 

[The_Jamal]

I keep challenging you and the other Vlade antagonists which other player in the 2016 draft after Sabonis at pick 11 you would rather have? You might make a case for Dejounte Murray chosen by the Spurs at the end of the 1st round. The bottom line is it was a poor draft. Vlade did great coming out of it with Bogie and Skal.

Stop trying being results oriented. "Who we would have picked" is irrelevant because our #13 pick and #22 pick were obvious failures proven by the fact we got rid of them 1 year and a half into their careers. While I didn't have high hopes (or any really) that Papa or Malachi would turn into anything, it's far too soon to really know if they're total busts or not. But to Vlade, they obviously were or he wouldn't have gotten rid of them.

But to answer your question:

#13- Denzel Valentine
#22- Timothe Luwawu or Dejounte Murray

 

[Telemachus]

Stop trying being results oriented. "Who we would have picked" is irrelevant because our #13 pick and #22 pick were obvious failures proven by the fact we got rid of them 1 year and a half into their careers. While I didn't have high hopes (or any really) that Papa or Malachi would turn into anything, it's far too soon to really know if they're total busts or not. But to Vlade, they obviously were or he wouldn't have gotten rid of them.

But to answer your question:

#13- Denzel Valentine
#22- Timothe Luwawu or Dejounte Murray

Sorry, but you can't criticize a pick as bad without looking at the surrounding results. The pick didn't happen in a vacuum and all #13 picks are not created equal. The truth is that the only players who have really distinguished themselves are Murray and Brogdan (both would have been a reach at 13 as well.) The majority of the rest have either been busts or borderline NBA players so far.

 

[AleksandarN]

I am disappointed about his poor management of assets. He didn’t make use of the asset on hand, dumping 2 first round pick after one and a half year is just a waste. Still you can say that trade was a win, but Other than this trade he is just underwhelming. He is easily one of the worst GM, now Kings is just keeping him for the sake of “stable”.

How is it poor management of assets ? He turned an eighth pick in a very very week draft into 3 players. That is one hell of asset management

 

[Joshoua]

Stop trying being results oriented. "Who we would have picked" is irrelevant because our #13 pick and #22 pick were obvious failures proven by the fact we got rid of them 1 year and a half into their careers. While I didn't have high hopes (or any really) that Papa or Malachi would turn into anything, it's far too soon to really know if they're total busts or not. But to Vlade, they obviously were or he wouldn't have gotten rid of them.

But to answer your question:

#13- Denzel Valentine
#22- Timothe Luwawu or Dejounte Murray

So after 20/20 hindsight those are the guys we missed haha come on man.

 

[Livinthedream]

The only reason why he got this job in the first place was because he's a former fan-favorite. He has not demonstrated that he's qualified or even good enough to the a NBA GM. Look at the poor moves he made

1. Trade Nik Stauskas, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, 2016 1st round pick swap, 2017 1st round pick swap, and unprotected 2019 1st round pick for: NOTHING. How can you possibly defend this trade?

Still haven't gotten over this. Why did we have to give up a pick and a pick swap to get rid of Nik Stauskas? (rhetorical question because there is no good answer)

Value your picks....

 

[Telemachus]

Still haven't gotten over this. Why did we have to give up a pick and a pick swap to get rid of Nik Stauskas? (rhetorical question because there is no good answer)

Value your picks....

I guess you are just ignoring the contracts of Landry and JT?

 

[andjel]

Still haven't gotten over this. Why did we have to give up a pick and a pick swap to get rid of Nik Stauskas? (rhetorical question because there is no good answer)

Value your picks....

You are coming to the bad team and you have no significant cap space for the next couple of years nor talent wanted by the rest of the league (minus Cuz). You believe in Cuz and your strategy is to build around Cuz (with hindsight it was losing strategy, but it was not clear at the time).

How can you do anything for that strategy if you do not get rid of dead weight and create that cap space?

We got rid of proven dead weight (Nick, Landry and Thompson are practically nowhere). In return you have a chance with cap space to build around Cuz which otherwise you would not have. Price was potentially steep 1st round pick, but with the strategy to built around Cuz, if you succeed that pick is not that of a big deal.

I do see sense in the above.

Now, he was not being able to successfully execute that strategy and can be criticized for that (and should), but that is another story.

 

[Livinthedream]

I guess you are just ignoring the contracts of Landry and JT?

Rhetorical man. Rhetorical.

It's been debated ad nauseam and I don't want to derail the thread.

 

[Livinthedream]

You are coming to the bad team and you have no significant cap space for the next couple of years nor talent wanted by the rest of the league (minus Cuz). You believe in Cuz and your strategy is to build around Cuz (with hindsight it was losing strategy, but it was not clear at the time).

How can you do anything for that strategy if you do not get rid of dead weight and create that cap space?

We got rid of proven dead weight (Nick, Landry and Thompson are practically nowhere). In return you have a chance with cap space to build around Cuz which otherwise you would not have. Price was potentially steep 1st round pick, but with the strategy to built around Cuz, if you succeed that pick is not that of a big deal.

I do see sense in the above.

Now, he was not being able to successfully execute that strategy and can be criticized for that (and should), but that is another story.

Many folks on this board saw the inherit risks of that strategy, as did the national media. So, it's not really hindsight.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Well you've all won me over, I'm now convinced that Vlade should have just sat with his thumbs up his butt for 3 years and let all the mistakes of the past expire, then we'd have lost Boogie for nothing, but at least we wouldn't have traded him and got something for him, we could have just chocked it up to the free agent market being sucky for Sacramento and gone KANGZ!!!

But at least he wouldn't have taken any risks that could hurt us later.

 

[ockingsfan]

How is it poor management of assets ? He turned an eighth pick in a very very week draft into 3 players. That is one hell of asset management

Just to clarify, its actually only two players (Bogdan and Skal) now that Papa is gone.

 

[whozit]

Just to clarify, its actually only two players (Bogdan and Skal) now that Papa is gone.

Wrong. It was three players, one has proven that he is at least a rotational player, one is now a sunk cost and the third one the jury is still out on. In a weak draft.