[Game] Kings vs. Pacers - 11/30/22, 7PM PST, 10PM EST

[pdxKingsFan]

It's worse than we thought then. I mean... not drafting someone because of fit is actually a more justifiable than reason b and c. Love Vlad, but we underestimated his incompetence as a GM lol.

well A is still the issue to me above all, and it underscores his entire tenure with the team. Yes, we drafted Fox, almost had to, it was that obvious. Had we been in pick 1-3 I bet he gets it wrong and picks Fultz or Ball. He did pretty ok on the trade front, that 10 for 15 and 20 was not terrible (again, though he could have drafted Bam, Mitchell or Monk at 10 though) but there were some real nice pieces at 15 and 20 for the taking - John Collins and OG in particular that probably would have rounded out a nice squad and quick rebuild for Joerger.

Vlade was a horrible talent evaluator. Even his FA signings were good on paper but horrible misses for chemistry and impact.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

And we are seeing with his brother that is the whole family.

I have zero interest in watching Sun Devils unless they are going to get whooped by my Cats, so all I'm aware of is that the kid who was potentially even better than Marvin is three years into his NCAA career and not moving up draft boards. What's going on beyond that?

 

[KF8]

I think this is the bottom line.

A move had to be made. We made one, and we got a lot better. Why should we be upset that the Pacers got better too? That's the sign of a good trade.

I think time will tell. The verdict is still out whether we got a lot better. Would you still consider the trade a success if we only improved around 5 games in the win column while just missing the play in or losing the in play in?

 

[Kingz19]

I think with more time to build chemistry with Huerter, Keegan and the rest of the guys that Sabonis could average 8 assists a game. He’s already pushing 7. 19 12 and 8 is pretty fantastic and real possibility this year or next season.

he’s flirting with triples doubles many nights despite the ongoing trend of atleast 1 if not both of Barnes and Murray underperforming with open shots created by Domas

Domas is an engine and massively high impact player and presence.

What is remarkable about the narrative some people are making is we traded the runaway league leader in assists, yet the Kings have moved to the top 5 in all(top 2 in some) relevant offensive categories. Including assists per game and assists/TO. How did that happen?

anybody who thinks that isn’t overwhelmingly about Domas being on the floor is kidding themselves and merely looking to rage. It absent any honest assessment. Which is why any talk of the deal is only centered on how well Haliburton is playing and the Pacers having a good start to the season. No mention of how well Domas is playing and the Kings having a good start to the season.

Domas doesn’t need to have 15 assists to be the center of one of the most efficient offensive attacks in the league.

Kings remaining problems are all defensive. That issue doesn’t really figure into the trade. At the end of the day, most trades are done with each team expecting to get better as a result of it. It seems to have happened and people want to create winners or losers.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think time will tell. The verdict is still out whether we got a lot better. Would you still consider the trade a success if we only improved around 5 games in the win column while just missing the play in or losing the in play in?

If we only win 36 games this year there's a lot more wrong than the trade.

Although I struggle to see any team with Hali + Fox or Hali + Simmons or similar winning more than 36.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I believe the Kings passed on Luka primarily because:
a) they believed rather foolishly (probably spearheaded by Brandon Williams) that he was the #1 talent in the draft
b) Vlade did not have the stones to draft a Euro player and deal with the repercussions of getting it wrong
c) Vlade also knew that Luka was a hot head that would get him fired, which is what happened to the coach and GM in Dallas

The fit issue is the one everyone harps on because it's convenient to apply this to every other bad move the organization makes, no matter who is GM, coach, or other. But I believe the 3 factors above were what really drove the call.

Hopefully the big reach for Papa-G didn't make him shy away from drafting another European player, but it may have. Regardless, there was no excuse for the Bagley pick at the time. One of the worst decisions in NBA history

 

[KF8]

 

[Spike]

What is remarkable about the narrative some people are making is we traded the runaway league leader in assists, yet the Kings have moved to the top 5 in all(top 2 in some) relevant offensive categories. Including assists per game and assists/TO. How did that happen?

I came here to make this point. Indiana and Sacramento are 0.2 assists apart in that department. Who's to say what the flow would look like with Brown and Hali vs. Fox? Sacramento is 3rd in offensive efficiency, and Indiana is 11th.
The ball moves a lot better AS A TEAM, than it would with one person responsible for setting everyone up. It's all about what you want your offense to be structured like. From a fantasy sports perspective, sure, I want one guy dishing the ball, as long as that guy is on my team, but from a coaching perspective, I definitely want the ball moving.

I do think Brown is (at least partially) responsible for getting into Fox and maximizing his potential. I think for a defensive-minded coach, he's actually made the offense look a lot better than it has in years, and that a more efficient/effective offense also creates positivity on the defensive end. That said, Indiana's team defense is statistically better than Sacramento's, and I'm curious to see how things shake out, because it seems that the bulk of their defensive success comes from blocks and steals.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I really feel like Sabonis often gets lost when it boils down to Fox and Hali. Like I'm sorry there aren't many disgruntled superstars (like LPKF says above) that would be playing better than Sabonis is. Most of what he does isn't even showing up in the stats. He's a leader, he's a warrior, his play style really unlocks Fox and Huerter among others. Also the fact that we replaced Hali and Buddy (however you want to play this game) with Huerter and Monk, both on value contracts, both also very happy to be here.

Yeah, and if you are trading Fox for a Sabonis caliber player, at Fox’s value last year, you’re adding a first at least and keeping Buddy, so there’s no Huerter trade. And no Monk either, as his relationship with Fox was a key factor in signing here, I think it’s safe to say. Maybe you can get someone else similar with the MLE, maybe you keep DDV, but it’s a substantially different team.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Hopefully the big reach for Papa-G didn't make him shy away from drafting another European player, but it may have. Regardless, there was no excuse for the Bagley pick at the time. One of the worst decisions in NBA history

I am sure it was a factor.

Let's not forget that a lot of NBA prognosticators were sure we would pick him and that he would be a bust. I am sure it all factored into a deer in the headlights moment.

But I do believe that they really were that high on Bagley for some reason. They didn't even attempt to work out the other top 5 picks.

 

[Turgenev]

I came here to make this point. Indiana and Sacramento are 0.2 assists apart in that department. Who's to say what the flow would look like with Brown and Hali vs. Fox? Sacramento is 3rd in offensive efficiency, and Indiana is 11th.
The ball moves a lot better AS A TEAM, than it would with one person responsible for setting everyone up. It's all about what you want your offense to be structured like. From a fantasy sports perspective, sure, I want one guy dishing the ball, as long as that guy is on my team, but from a coaching perspective, I definitely want the ball moving.

I do think Brown is (at least partially) responsible for getting into Fox and maximizing his potential. I think for a defensive-minded coach, he's actually made the offense look a lot better than it has in years, and that a more efficient/effective offense also creates positivity on the defensive end. That said, Indiana's team defense is statistically better than Sacramento's, and I'm curious to see how things shake out, because it seems that the bulk of their defensive success comes from blocks and steals.

Kings Fans go 16 years without the playoffs, have composed a long list of grievances, finally get a winning team that plays entertaining basketball but still prefer to be working on their grievance lists.

 

[fansinceday1]

I hope people aren't mad when the fans boo buddy. IMO, he was kind of a prick toward the end of his stay. He did enough to get booed upon his return.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I hope people aren't mad when the fans boo buddy. IMO, he was kind of a prick toward the end of his stay. He did enough to get booed upon his return.

I'd give the sort of golf clap that is commensurate with the level of effort he gave us during the Walton years.

But I expect boo birds and that's ok. All those liked tweets and IG posts of trade rumors, and basically even when we were re-signing him, he was talking smack about Sac while angling for 100m +.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

This will be the game thread!

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I have zero interest in watching Sun Devils unless they are going to get whooped by my Cats, so all I'm aware of is that the kid who was potentially even better than Marvin is three years into his NCAA career and not moving up draft boards. What's going on beyond that?

I'm not nearly as tuned in to the high school rankings as others here are, but I wasn't really under the impression that little bro Bagley was ever considered as good of a prospect as Marvin. Marvin was in contention for the #1 player in his class in high school, went to Duke, and was no doubt one-and-done from before he set foot on campus. Marcus went to ASU, and has had minor buzz (and minor success) at best. I have no recollection of anything that would suggest he was considered potentially better than Marvin - even after Marvin turned out a disappointment.

 

[Spike]

This will be the game thread!

Sadly, it lacks the usual Testu pith. How will I know who is out because they microwaved a burrito for too long?

 

[funkykingston]

The game is at 7 pm PT and 4 pm ET? What sorcery is this?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm not nearly as tuned in to the high school rankings as others here are, but I wasn't really under the impression that little bro Bagley was ever considered as good of a prospect as Marvin. Marvin was in contention for the #1 player in his class in high school, went to Duke, and was no doubt one-and-done from before he set foot on campus. Marcus went to ASU, and has had minor buzz (and minor success) at best. I have no recollection of anything that would suggest he was considered potentially better than Marvin - even after Marvin turned out a disappointment.

Marv's in what year 5, so Marcus would have enrolled at ASU after year 2 when Marv was completely pronounced a bust just by virtue of not being Luka, but also well behind most of the draft class aside from maybe Bamba.

I'm guessing because even though 2018 was going to be the year of the big man, it turned out the league is more wing oriented than ever and Marcus is in the 3&D SF category. He was apparently a "top 30 recruit" that helped Bobby Hurley to the 10th ranked recruiting class in 2020. I just seem to recall him being touted as a surefire 1 and doner and top prospect.

 

[hrdboild]

I'd give the sort of golf clap that is commensurate with the level of effort he gave us during the Walton years.

But I expect boo birds and that's ok. All those liked tweets and IG posts of trade rumors, and basically even when we were re-signing him, he was talking smack about Sac while angling for 100m +.

Yeah, I've moved on from the Buddy drama. If he gets booed, well he probably deserves it for the amount of games he blew with untimely turnovers and lackadaisical defense. If he gets applause, he deserves that too -- he did set a franchise record after all. Mostly I think he's just quilty of putting his foot in his mouth because he didn't want to play the role of the fake humble athlete. His words after he did break the record are more reflective (I think) of who he is than the fake bluster about being disrespected:

“I’m very humble, very blessed, passing a guy like Peja Stojakovic, a Sacramento Kings legend. What he’s done for the game of basketball, for Europeans, for international kids. I’d be lying if I told you I’d never watched him or played with him in a video game. But I never thought I’d be here in a million years saying I broke his record,” Hield said. “It’s a humbling experience but I just have to keep moving forward, keep chasing other records, better myself, and try to rack up more wins for this team.”

(link)

I don't think Buddy is a bad dude, he got sucked into the vortex of fan expectation and front office dysfunction and handled it like a lot of guys in their 20s would. Now he's gotten a fresh start and is doing well in his new role.

I'm curious to see how fans will react to Tyrese Haliburton's first game back. I know a lot of fans are still hurt that he got traded and some of his remarks after the fact haven't been very diplomatic but I don't think he's done anything to warrant booing. All he's guilty of is taking it personally when he was unexpectedly shipped out mid-way through his sophomore season. He went out of his way to express his love of playing for this franchise so if anything that should only endear him more to this fanbase, but sports fans are a fickle lot so who knows. Emotions will be high. I'd like to see the fans embrace him with a standing ovation as a way of saying "thanks for the memories" -- I hope that's what happens.

 

[Spike]

The game is at 7 pm PT and 4 pm ET? What sorcery is this?

I blame @Tetsujin

 

[funkykingston]

I came here to make this point. Indiana and Sacramento are 0.2 assists apart in that department. Who's to say what the flow would look like with Brown and Hali vs. Fox? Sacramento is 3rd in offensive efficiency, and Indiana is 11th.
The ball moves a lot better AS A TEAM, than it would with one person responsible for setting everyone up. It's all about what you want your offense to be structured like. From a fantasy sports perspective, sure, I want one guy dishing the ball, as long as that guy is on my team, but from a coaching perspective, I definitely want the ball moving.

I do think Brown is (at least partially) responsible for getting into Fox and maximizing his potential. I think for a defensive-minded coach, he's actually made the offense look a lot better than it has in years, and that a more efficient/effective offense also creates positivity on the defensive end. That said, Indiana's team defense is statistically better than Sacramento's, and I'm curious to see how things shake out, because it seems that the bulk of their defensive success comes from blocks and steals.

As someone who would have really preferred to trade Fox for Sabonis and pair him with Hali, I definitely agree here.

Brown is a good enough coach that he and his staff would have figured out how to build an offense around Sabonis and Haliburton, but it definitely would look significantly different. And FWIW, I really, really enjoy the Kings offense. Watching games is fun again and I hope that continues. That's all I've wanted for years now.

 

[KF8]

If we only win 36 games this year there's a lot more wrong than the trade.

Although I struggle to see any team with Hali + Fox or Hali + Simmons or similar winning more than 36.

I've been fooled for 16 years. As a Kings fan I'm prepared for the worst, so when the worst does happen I won't be caught off guard. I think we're going to win about 35 games just missing the playoffs. To add salt to injury Pacers will make the playoffs before the Kings with Hali leading them with superstar status.

 

[NewArena]

Comparing Haliburton to Luka is insane lmao please stop it

 

[KF8]

Comparing Haliburton to Luka is insane lmao please stop it

True I wouldn't say Luka, but probably more comparable to Chris Paul. Hali's floor generalship is elite. Still Paul when in his prime is considered a superstar. Plus no one was comparing the 2 as players if u reread the thread

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The game is at 7 pm PT and 4 pm ET? What sorcery is this?

Dumb, dumb sorcery. Whoops.

 

[Ozymandias]

Marv's in what year 5, so Marcus would have enrolled at ASU after year 2 when Marv was completely pronounced a bust just by virtue of not being Luka, but also well behind most of the draft class aside from maybe Bamba.

I'm guessing because even though 2018 was going to be the year of the big man, it turned out the league is more wing oriented than ever and Marcus is in the 3&D SF category. He was apparently a "top 30 recruit" that helped Bobby Hurley to the 10th ranked recruiting class in 2020. I just seem to recall him being touted as a surefire 1 and doner and top prospect.

Marcus, believe it or not, is currently in the middle of a suspension relating to him saying something unpleasant to the coach plus tweeting about it. So he's perfectly healthy but hasn't played a game. He's completely disappeared from ESPN's best available list (of 100 players). It's a full blown disaster.

As for his previous seasons, he only played 15 games combined, both of which were cut short by injury.

Sheesh if your son is a highly ranked 4-star combo forward dont send them to ASU! Between Taeshon Cherry and Marcus.. yikes..

 

[Turgenev]

Marcus, believe it or not, is currently in the middle of a suspension relating to him saying something unpleasant to the coach plus tweeting about it. So he's perfectly healthy but hasn't played a game. He's completely disappeared from ESPN's best available list (of 100 players). It's a full blown disaster.

As for his previous seasons, he only played 15 games combined, both of which were cut short by injury.

Sheesh if your son is a highly ranked 4-star combo forward dont send them to ASU! Between Taeshon Cherry and Marcus.. yikes..

Rude to the coach and injured. Got it. Sounds like his brother.

 

[Turgenev]

Feel like Buddy will feed off being booed or cheered. Best approach would be to give an underwhelming applause or silent treatment.

 

[Turgenev]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1598058692431478784

 

[KF8]

IMO, kings fans are treating the Halliburton trade like they treat not drafting Doncic. First it was denial, now its to not speak his name. And if anyone talks about him, you are shamed. It happened with Doncic, and its now the same with Halliburton. If no one talks about him, its not as bad as it really is.

Theres a reason why 100% of the NBA and fans thought the kings were stupid for trading halliburton. No matter what happens with Fox, we are always gonna be the loser in the halliburton trade.

I thought it was horrible when it happened. I think its way worse now.

It's too early to tell the results of the haliburton trade. We'll just have to wait and see.

Simply put if:

Kings become a multi year playoff team it doesn't matter if hali becomes a superstar since we got what we wanted in winning (succuessful trade)
Kings stay about the same winning 35 games no playoffs assuming hali isn't a superstar(unsuccessful trade or more of a lateral move)
Kings stay about the same winning 35 games no playoffs meanwhile hali becomes a superstar (big fail on the magnitude of passing on luka)