[Game] Kings vs. Grizzlies, 12/26/2021 3pm Pacific 6pm Eastern

[sactowndog]

The Kings are the perfect example of why you need a GM who has both an analytical background and has at some level played the game. Vlade lacked the ability to use the numbers to better project a prospects path. Monte has no concept of fit. Both are bad GM’s just in opposite directions.

 

[midtowner]

I’m going to give Monte a longer leash. The team is at least more talented now - and his 2 trades that got blown up made sense. He hasn’t made any moves that have handcuffed the team’s future. But obviously, the team is just as bad as it was under Vlade.

 

[SLAB]

The Kings are the perfect example of why you need a GM who has both an analytical background and has at some level played the game. Vlade lacked the ability to use the numbers to better project a prospects path. Monte has no concept of fit. Both are bad GM’s just in opposite directions.

I’m giving Monte exactly to this trade deadline to make a final decision. If he stands or only makes minor moves, dudes a bust. If he makes some big moves we’ll again push to the end of the season to see how they work out.

 

[EIM86]

I’m giving Monte exactly to this trade deadline to make a final decision. If he stands or only makes minor moves, dudes a bust. If he makes some big moves we’ll again push to the end of the season to see how they work out.

leaning towards bust myself but I’m banking on him making the team so bad that we got a top 4 pick

 

[SLAB]

leaning towards bust myself but I’m banking on him making the team so bad that we got a top 4 pick

And of course there’s the omnipresent Vivek problem. Who knows if Monte’s hands are actually tied or not by a certain madman telling him this team IS GOOD ENOUGH.

 

[Albatros]

Gentry at it again... He's going to find players who will play hard.

It'll be the same players in the next game, doing the same things.

 

[SacTownKid]

meh. Drafting for fit is always bad until you have a/potential top 15 player. The Kings for a large part of their existence have had a severe talent deficiency. Even if it doesn't fit right away, get the talent, figure out the fit later.

And in theory, Fox-Buddy-Barnes-Holmes should be an absolute stunning fit with complimentary skill sets. So why isn't it?

If you've drafted BPA multiple times and hit it out of the park, then the first signs of it potentially not working on the floor, you sell high. Period.

So many reasons but also overall that isn't a squad that truly fits the modern game either, Barnes is a 4, not a 3 that's going to change a game. We have full proof of that now. There were injuries, and overall there are still huge gaps on the wing depth wise. Defensively, they can't and don't buy into a versatile pressure scheme very much. DC kind of did at times. They held onto a holdover coach for 1.5 years too long. Confidence and consistency are huge. You have to time your ascension right as well. Walton was NEVER going to stick. Never. History said it. Giving Gentry the spot last season when they had a sliver of hope at the play in was the proper move. Giving Gentry (a Luke hire) the spot now while the Buddy/Bagley cloud still lingers, along with another drop in success to kick off the transition isn't fair to him, but also stupid to have done it IMO. In the end it doesn't matter how much talent you have, or how they fit, if they are misused and lose confidence, you have a very short rope before even a run of success can be flushed. This is why you have teams with talent that go on 9 game win streaks and 8 game losing streaks. The team has answered the bell before but it's only a matter of time before it's down for the count.

 

[The_Jamal]

I’m going to give Monte a longer leash. The team is at least more talented now - and his 2 trades that got blown up made sense. He hasn’t made any moves that have handcuffed the team’s future. But obviously, the team is just as bad as it was under Vlade.

Yeah, this is basically where I stand. I think the overwhelming directive from Vivek was to push for the play-in/playoff spot. Unfortunately, he inherited an extremely expensive core with little wiggle room to build around it. He's done extremely well on the fringes and his talent evaluation (TT trade aside), but it's become abundantly clear in the last year and a half that the Vlade core just isn't it. I don't expect a full reset by the deadline, but if we aren't shipping SOMETHING out, he's immediately on the hot-seat to win next season or he's gonezo.

 

[sactowndog]

I’m going to give Monte a longer leash. The team is at least more talented now - and his 2 trades that got blown up made sense. He hasn’t made any moves that have handcuffed the team’s future. But obviously, the team is just as bad as it was under Vlade.

How do you count as credit trade where I was told in advanced Monte was being played?

That’s like giving credit to a guy who folded a flush saying oh well I will give you credit but no money for having a good hand.

 

[Albatros]

Even if the proposed trades went through it wouldn't have mattered.

Any player who comes here loses their talent instantly. The organisation is toxic.

 

[kingsboi]

The Kings are the perfect example of why you need a GM who has both an analytical background and has at some level played the game. Vlade lacked the ability to use the numbers to better project a prospects path. Monte has no concept of fit. Both are bad GM’s just in opposite directions.

so does what Charles says here have merit?

 

[sactowndog]

so does what Charles says here have merit?

Not in my opinion. Analytics has its place but fit does matter.

 

[kingsboi]

Not in my opinion. Analytics has its place but fit does matter.

do you believe that one who has never played the game and relies solely on analytics is successful?

 

[Jones2006]

The Kings are 18th in offensive rating - of course they’re lower in defensive but the point is the offensive talent on this team is insane & yet they’re still not even average offensively.

In my opinion they need to get rid of Fox & Hield. Individually they’re talented but they don’t move the ball enough. They need more guys to move the ball and penetrate for east buckets. The team doesn’t run enough effective pick & rolls … even when Holmes & Len are good roll guys. There’s not enough downward pressure to the basket.

 

[Groovygreg]

And of course there’s the omnipresent Vivek problem. Who knows if Monte’s hands are actually tied or not by a certain madman telling him this team IS GOOD ENOUGH.

You have to wonder how much Dumars is mucking up the waters.

 

[The_Jamal]

Not in my opinion. Analytics has its place but fit does matter.

Fit matters when you've collected enough talent to be a consistent top 7 team in the NBA. Otherwise, what's the point of putting together a great fitting roster, but has no chance of having the talent to win?

 

[sactowndog]

do you believe that one who has never played the game and relies solely on analytics is successful?

I think it is harder but not impossible. Having played at some level gives a better understanding of fit. Ujiri as an example played at Bismarck State and Montana State. Presti played D3 basketball at Virginia Wesleyan.

Morey did not play basketball.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

We have no go to guy. Fox is not it. He either has tunes vison and takes on whole team hoping to get fouled, or he's disinterested in the game. There isn't a middle ground with him. He's Iso ING the team so much they hog ball when they finally touch it, or He's passing up the tike tike get agreesive when team needs him most. And when I say aggressive I don't mean taking shots I mean making plays. Not just for himself but for others like every real star on good teams. He's a driving Carmelo Anthony. But Melo brought offense every game. Fox takes games at a time off.

And trade buddy. He's a cancer. Its bi polar watching his game. Sick of it. I'll take anyone at this point. Trade those two. Stop playing metu like He's a star, and we'll have something.

Watchung Hali start was such a breath of fresh air.

 

[sactowndog]

Fit matters when you've collected enough talent to be a consistent top 7 team in the NBA. Otherwise, what's the point of putting together a great fitting roster, but has no chance of having the talent to win?

Perhaps. At some level I agree with you but if your talent isn’t that good then you ought to be willing to trade it.

Either Fox was a top tier talent and you shouldn’t have drafted Mitchell or after you knew Mitchell could play you should have traded Fox for Simmons while you could.

 

[Groovygreg]

We have no go to guy. Fox is not it. He either has tunes vison and takes on whole team hoping to get fouled, or he's disinterested in the game. There isn't a middle ground with him. He's Iso ING the team so much they hog ball when they finally touch it, or He's passing up the tike tike get agreesive when team needs him most. And when I say aggressive I don't mean taking shots I mean making plays. Not just for himself but for others like every real star on good teams. He's a driving Carmelo Anthony. But Melo brought offense every game. Fox takes games at a time off.

And trade buddy. He's a cancer. Its bi polar watching his game. Sick of it. I'll take anyone at this point. Trade those two. Stop playing metu like He's a star, and we'll have something.

Watchung Hali start was such a breath of fresh air.

But I bet Fox is a superior video game player

 

[Albatros]

The game as a whole is boring. I only watch kings games now and I routinely switch them off... Chucking up 50 three's a game isn't exciting. 100 shots a game is boring, sorry Alvin. One on one street ball is boring to me. Bring back actual offenses. I don't care about what NFT the players own or what viveks opinion is on literally anything... Fix the damn team!

 

[kb02]

This team has a talent issue. Blow up the Vlade core, Monte.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475641372514209795

 

[Dongoodboy]

The Kings are 18th in offensive rating - of course they’re lower in defensive but the point is the offensive talent on this team is insane & yet they’re still not even average offensively.

In my opinion they need to get rid of Fox & Hield. Individually they’re talented but they don’t move the ball enough. They need more guys to move the ball and penetrate for east buckets. The team doesn’t run enough effective pick & rolls … even when Holmes & Len are good roll guys. There’s not enough downward pressure to the basket.

Think of it this way, they put all their effort in offense and yet they are not even in the upper half. That said something about the talent level of this team.

 

[ESP47]

Constant tanking?

Name the last year we actually tanked and finished in a Top 3 spot heading into the lottery? Being bad is not the same as constantly tanking. Tanking (playing their youth) is something the well managed teams do. We don’t fit that description.

It's why the Grizzlies went from the grit and grind era to being bad and now they've retooled and are good again.

We've just stayed bad the whole time.

 

[kb02]

It's why the Grizzlies went from the grit and grind era to being bad and now they've retooled and are good again.

We've just stayed bad the whole time.

Gotta give them credit for creating a culture, developing a type, and acquiring them. Robert Pera doesn't get enough credit for being a culture builder.

The Kings don't have a type. They could, if Monte/Vivek commited to it. Build around connectors. You got an offensive and a defensive connector already on the team. Get rid of the black holes and go get more connectors. You don't need a superstar ISO scorer when your connectors are creating easy buckets by moving the opposing defense all over the place. You don't need a defensive savior when your defensive connectors are collectively lowering the efficiency of the opposing offense.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

But I bet Fox is a superior video game player

Hes better in nba 2k also. Dam near unstoppable to the paint. And the speed... my God don't get me started.

Then I turn off 2k and watch the Kings game, sip my beer and slowly face Realty until I've drank myself to sleep

 

[Groovygreg]

Hes better in nba 2k also. Dam near unstoppable to the paint. And the speed... my God don't get me started.

Then I turn off 2k and watch the Kings game, sip my beer and slowly face Realty until I've drank myself to sleep

Lol!

 

[gunks]

This team has a talent issue. Blow up the Vlade core, Monte.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475641372514209795

I wonder where Hali would rank if he played an entire season without Fox.

Btw, this isn’t a “trade Fox” post. It’s just pretty undeniable that Hali really elevates his game when Fox is out.

 

[Albatros]

I wonder where Hali would rank if he played an entire season without Fox.

Btw, this isn’t a “trade Fox” post. It’s just pretty undeniable that Hali really elevates his game when Fox is out.

He'd be the best player on a dreadful team... So no change.

 

[gunks]

He'd be the best player on a dreadful team... So no change.

Haha good point