[Game] Kings vs. Celtics, 2/3/21, 7pm PST, 10pm EST

SacTownKid said:
Holmes keeps getting lost on defense. Make it easy, just switch and stay man to man!!!
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Mr. Holmes always provides help. especially from the weak side. He is the last line of defense. If the guys in the back court could stay with their men better he would "not look lost." at all.
 
ppine said:
Mr. Holmes always provides help. especially from the weak side. He is the last line of defense. If the guys in the back court could stay with their men better he would "not look lost." at all.
Click to expand...
Except that’s not the defense we’re running at all. Holmes doesn’t need to be the last line of defense, he needs to stick to his assignments and close out on the switches like he’s supposed to instead of shading back towards the basket.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
There was a play tonight where the Celts missed a corner three and the rebound bounced back toward the shooter and the baseline.

Tyrese was defending near the paint and the charge circle on the other side of the half court. But he quickly anticipated the type of pass the rebounder was going to have to make in order to save the ball from going out of bounds and broke on it like Xavien Howard jumping an out route in the NFL.

When people use the term “high basketball IQ” that play is a great example of what it actually looks like.
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Tetsujin said:
Except that’s not the defense we’re running at all. Holmes doesn’t need to be the last line of defense, he needs to stick to his assignments and close out on the switches like he’s supposed to instead of shading back towards the basket.
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A common misconception in the NBA. This is a simplistic view. Walton obviously likes the last line of defense played by Mista Holmes. That is why he is the starting center. Does not matter if the Kings are playing zone or m2m, or some other variant. Bagley and Whiteside cannot do it as well.
 
I don't understand why there's such a strong aversion to putting Whiteside in the starting lineup. He's obviously our most impactful defender. And we're currently last in the league in points allowed in the paint (link) so the Bagley/Holmes frontline ain't working.
 
My strong aversion to Whiteside in the starting line up is based on the following:

1 - Bagley needs to start this season. Developing him and figuring out what he can be next to Fox is the most important task this season for long term planning about the team’s direction.

2 - Whiteside clogs the lane for D Fox.

3 - Whiteside is good off the bench and won’t complain about playing 20 minutes a game.

4 - He will negatively affect the pace of play. I saw what Whiteside looked like as a starter in Portland last year. Amazing numbers, but I wasn’t impressed.

I love Whiteside getting minutes and demonstrating to the squad what good defense looks like. He make it easy to run Barnes at the 4. He’s a good King.
 
ppine said:
A common misconception in the NBA. This is a simplistic view. Walton obviously likes the last line of defense played by Mista Holmes. That is why he is the starting center. Does not matter if the Kings are playing zone or m2m, or some other variant. Bagley and Whiteside cannot do it as well.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying Holmes isn't a good rim protector or anything like that. I'm saying that that's not the scheme we're running on defense. It's like showing up to a basketball game in football cleats.
 
ppine said:
A common misconception in the NBA. This is a simplistic view. Walton obviously likes the last line of defense played by Mista Holmes. That is why he is the starting center. Does not matter if the Kings are playing zone or m2m, or some other variant. Bagley and Whiteside cannot do it as well.
Click to expand...

I don't know of any modern scheme where a post just "floats around" regardless of whether or not you're in man or zone.
 
You have to understand the concept of help defense, especially from the weak side. It is totally common and happens all the time.
 
ppine said:
Mr. Holmes always provides help. especially from the weak side. He is the last line of defense. If the guys in the back court could stay with their men better he would "not look lost." at all.
Click to expand...

The Kings had changed up at that point and were running switch. He stayed back and got lost on the switch.
 
Livinthedream said:
Holmes is an expiring contract center. I wouldn't get too attached based on the value Monte places on centers in general.
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There is still yet a decent amount of games to play out but if this holds I can't see Holmes going anywhere. The issue is how many other teams are paying attention? All in due time in a worst case the positive is plenty of the Kings assets for the most part are living up to their value and some are far exceeding it so there may be options on the trade market come the deadline if a deal sets the team up really well for the future.
 
est.1999 said:
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting.

When you watch the sideline angle, you can see Tyrese diagnose then start to break toward the most likely pass destination while the Celtics player is still going for the ball.

That’s not only phenomenal recognition and anticipation, but also tremendous BBIQ in knowing what the offensive player was going to have to do and where he was most likely to go with it.

We all watch a lot of basketball and know where long rebounds and desperation save passes typically go. Clearly so does Tyrese. But he did the abnormal in seeing it before it happened and reacting in a split second. His god given length and athleticism took over from there.
 
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SacTownKid said:
There is still yet a decent amount of games to play out but if this holds I can't see Holmes going anywhere. The issue is how many other teams are paying attention? All in due time in a worst case the positive is plenty of the Kings assets for the most part are living up to their value and some are far exceeding it so there may be options on the trade market come the deadline if a deal sets the team up really well for the future.
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I think it all depends on what Monte thinks of Marvin's progress. If he believes Bagley will be able to effectively switch between the 4 and small ball 5 in the near future, then why pay to keep Holmes?

Not arguing who is the better small ball center today. It's a forward projection that Monte is going to have to make before he gives a multi year offer to Holmes. Holmes lobbying in the media to stay in Sacramento tells me it's not a foregone conclusion.
 
Livinthedream said:
I think it all depends on what Monte thinks of Marvin's progress. If he believes Bagley will be able to effectively switch between the 4 and small ball 5 in the near future, then why pay to keep Holmes?

Not arguing who is the better small ball center today. It's a forward projection that Monte is going to have to make before he gives a multi year offer to Holmes. Holmes lobbying in the media to stay in Sacramento tells me it's not a foregone conclusion.
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They have shown that they can play together just fine, so I don't see any reason why the Kings should have to choose only one of them to keep on the team.
 
Per the Athletic Fox / Hield / Barnes / Bagley / Holmes was at one point the 6th-best lineup in the NBA with +10 pts per 100 possessions. That was like 2 weeks ago but if we’re talking bags vs Holmes that’s worth pointing out
 
hrdboild said:
Brad Stevens is really talking up Fox and Haliburton in his post-game presser. Said the Kings are a very good team with a lot of weapons.
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Good coaches recognize. ;)

They do have a lot of weapons. Experience, player rotations, and scheme (and sometimes star treatment officiating) are what often holds them back.
 
captain bill said:
Per the Athletic Fox / Hield / Barnes / Bagley / Holmes was at one point the 6th-best lineup in the NBA with +10 pts per 100 possessions. That was like 2 weeks ago but if we’re talking bags vs Holmes that’s worth pointing out
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It's now 3rd best, if you sort by lineups with over 75 minutes played: https://go.nba.com/q7lq (I'm not sure if that's a reasonable filter or not, but it's what bleacher report used in the article Carmichael Dave recently highlighted on Twitter).

Just looking at the Kings, I moved the filter down to 14 minutes or more, and it shows the top-10 most used lineups, sorted by net rating: https://go.nba.com/vmqx Many of these aren't used that frequently at all, though, so I'm not sure whether we can trust the sample size yet. With the starters v. finishers argument, though, I think you can, and I think the evidence backs up Luke's end of game rotation for now.
 
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