[Game] Kings v. Raptors - 11/20/16 - 6 PT/9ET

[Telemachus]

Why would the Raptors foul?

They would of had around 2 seconds left on the clock and only a 3 point deficit by playing straight defense and getting a stop.

Darren should have tried to drive to the basket when the shot clock was winding down, to at least try and draw a foul. Standing and dribbling it 35 feet away from the basket and chucking a 35 footer is a no win situation for the Kings. You still need at least one more point to seal the game.

I believe DC was passed the ball with only a few seconds left on the shot clock. And I would point out that the Raptors DID foul, but it wasn't called. Patterson fouled Cousins near the baseline and even said something to the ref when it wasn't called.

 

[ockingsfan]

I believe DC was passed the ball with only a few seconds left on the shot clock. And I would point out that the Raptors DID foul, but it wasn't called. Patterson fouled Cousins near the baseline and even said something to the ref when it wasn't called.

Either way, either the coach drew up a bad play or the players were not executing, but needing at least a point to seal the win, the ball should have been going towards the basket, when the shot clock was winding down.

If you start driving to the basket with about 4-5 seconds on the shot clock, chances are that you would get a bucket or a foul. The last offensive series was not good fundamental basketball.

The Kings got lucky that DMC tipped the inbound pass, otherwise, we could be talking about another bad loss.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Why would the Raptors foul?

They would of had around 2 seconds left on the clock and only a 3 point deficit by playing straight defense and getting a stop.

Not true. 2.4 was the difference between the clocks, as we all now know. The only way they were getting 2.4 was in the event of a shot clock violation, which you certainly wouldn't count on happening.

If the Kings had hit the rim, a lot of that 2.4 would have evaporated if not most or all of it. Depends how the rebound plays out. If it gets tipped even once, game over. Even with a perfect carom straight to a Raptors player and an immediate timeout, you're cutting it real close. Pretty big risk banking on all that happening for what would have amounted to 1+second if it all went perfectly.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I believe DC was passed the ball with only a few seconds left on the shot clock.

THIS.

He didn't have time to do anything but launch from where we was once he got the ball.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

If you start driving to the basket with about 4-5 seconds on the shot clock, chances are that you would get a bucket or a foul. The last offensive series was not good fundamental basketball..

Again, Collison didn't have the ball with 4-5 seconds left. Also, did you not notice the swarming pressure defense the Raptors were playing trying to steal the ball? It was all they could do to avoid getting trapped. And the refs generally allow a lot of contact under last second situations (e.g. Telemachus point about Patterson fouling and not getting called). It's not so easy to set it up the way you are describing.

The Kings got lucky that DMC tipped the inbound pass, otherwise, we could be talking about another bad loss.

And the Kings got unlucky in Miami at the end of that game otherwise they'd have one more win. If, if, if.

It seemed to even out.

 

[gil renard]

In fairness to Darren, I don't think he or Coach Joerger expected to have to take a 35 footer. I think everybody expected the Raptors to foul at some point once they didn't get the steal.

While it obviously worked out for them with regard to having a chance at another possession, it was actually a low percentage decision (not to foul) because all the Kings had to do was hit the rim and the game was over.

Had Darren taken a typical jump shot and not hit rim, I'd be a harder on him -- but a lot of guys would have airmailed that shot the way the play unfolded.

They were trying to foul Boogie in the latter part of the Kings final possession. I was watching the Raptors stream and their announcers were kind of bewildered at the moment that there wasn't a foul called. They showed a replay of Carroll(?) grabbing Cousins across the waist and then looking at the ref like he was expecting a foul to be called.

 

[gil renard]

Why would the Raptors foul?

They would of had around 2 seconds left on the clock and only a 3 point deficit by playing straight defense and getting a stop.

Darren should have tried to drive to the basket when the shot clock was winding down, to at least try and draw a foul. Standing and dribbling it 35 feet away from the basket and chucking a 35 footer is a no win situation for the Kings. You still need at least one more point to seal the game.

Because any scenario where the ball hits the rim would have ended the game.

 

[gil renard]

Not true. 2.4 was the difference between the clocks, as we all now know. The only way they were getting 2.4 was in the event of a shot clock violation, which you certainly wouldn't count on happening.

If the Kings had hit the rim, a lot of that 2.4 would have evaporated if not most or all of it. Depends how the rebound plays out. If it gets tipped even once, game over. Even with a perfect carom straight to a Raptors player and an immediate timeout, you're cutting it real close. Pretty big risk banking on all that happening for what would have amounted to 1+second if it all went perfectly.

This.

 

[ockingsfan]

Not true. 2.4 was the difference between the clocks, as we all now know. The only way they were getting 2.4 was in the event of a shot clock violation, which you certainly wouldn't count on happening.

If the Kings had hit the rim, a lot of that 2.4 would have evaporated if not most or all of it. Depends how the rebound plays out. If it gets tipped even once, game over. Even with a perfect carom straight to a Raptors player and an immediate timeout, you're cutting it real close. Pretty big risk banking on all that happening for what would have amounted to 1+second if it all went perfectly.

Most good teams would not have wound the time all the way down to shot clock expiration on that situation, especially if you can not seal the win by just holding the ball.

Coming out of two timeouts on that possession, the ball should have been going towards the basket in the final seconds of the shot clock.

It may not have been Darren's fault, but the ball should not have been out beyond the 3 point line with the shot clock winding down.

A desperation 35 foot shot is not what should have happened 0n that possession.

 

[ockingsfan]

Because any scenario where the ball hits the rim would have ended the game.

By the way, if a team is going to take a legitimate shot at the basket in that situation, they would usually take it with at least 2 seconds left on the shot clock. Therefore leaving, even after a carom of the ball 1-2 seconds left on the game clock.

What happens when a team tries to hold the ball until the very end of the shot clock? Well, we saw what happens, an air ball or a shot clock violation.

You typically want to take that shot with 1-2 seconds left on the shot clock, to make sure you get off a legitimate shot.

Either way, it was a poorly executed final offensive possession, which thankfully did not cost us the game.

 

[IfAt1st]

If we're relying on Collison to make a smart play or even not shoot an airball in the last couple minutes of a pressure-filled, close game.... then we're going to be a fanbase filled with tears.
The guy chokes. (As my sig had stated for over a season)

He's known to be a choker since last year - he's only had a handful of shots in those types of pressure situations, and he has airballed THREE OF THEM.

You know how hard it is for a professional who's played basketball their entire lives, has shot >100,000 shots to somehow not be able to hit rim on uncontested shots?

It's not physical with Darren, which is why he will continue to do this if the Kings rely on him in close games.

BTW - he never should have been standing 35 feet away from the basket - there was no one within 20 feet of him - he easily could have gotten closer to the 3-pt line.
It never should have been heaved up from that distance, and even that should have hit the rim. He was WIDE OPEN and had time to release.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Either way, it was a poorly executed final offensive possession, which thankfully did not cost us the game.

Agreed. However, it was also a poor decision by Toronto not to foul. A 4 or 5 second difference between shot clock and game clock, sure, you play it out. But barely more than 2 seconds is cutting it too close. Even under your scenario of shooting w/ 2 seconds left on the shot clock is too risky. Unless you get a clean rebound, which is far from guaranteed, there's not much margin for error.

 

[TaxMan]

The Kings got lucky that DMC tipped the inbound pass, otherwise, we could be talking about another bad loss.

Since when does making a good basketball play need to be considered "lucky"? We talk about wanting to see improved defensive play this year....well that was a good defensive play.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

The guy chokes. (As my sig had stated for over a season)

He's known to be a choker since last year - he's only had a handful of shots in those types of pressure situations, and he has airballed THREE OF THEM.

Just curious -- have you ever bothered to count the number of times he's made positive plays in pressure situations over his career? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no.

I have no idea what the true answer is, but I do know that the examples you've given don't go a long way in proving your opinion.

 

[ockingsfan]

Since when does making a good basketball play need to be considered "lucky"? We talk about wanting to see improved defensive play this year....well that was a good defensive play.

Lucky in the fact that DMC did make that tip ball. If he doesn't get his finger tip on that ball, the Kings would had went to overtime and they could had very well lost in overtime.

I did not mean DMC was lucky to tip the ball, but the Kings were lucky that he did.

 

[Chupacabra]

Regarding whether Lee got the shot off in 0.3, they may not have had the technology available now to explicitly time things based on first touch. And even so, watching that one over and over at the time, despite the little flip it did look like Lee got it off very quickly. At the time, I didn't think that the shot would be overturned based on Lee holding it too long - it was too close of a call for me.

I did think they would overturn on the basis of Hollins tipping it, but they apparently ruled that it was not definitive that Hollins touched it.

It really doesnt matter what anyone thinks about how quickly lee got the shot off. Ryan Hollins tipped the inbounds pass. The clock expired before the ball ever made it to lee. There is nothing further to argue.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Lucky in the fact that DMC did make that tip ball. If he doesn't get his finger tip on that ball, the Kings would had went to overtime and they could had very well lost in overtime.

You're making the mistake of changing a key variable then assuming everything else that transpired afterward remains the same. The tip changed Terrence Ross' path to ball. He had to go further back to retrieve it. Had DeMarcus had not tipped it, Ross might have taken a completely different path after he caught the ball based upon Matt Barnes reaction. Hence, you don't know where he would have shot the ball from or whether he still would have made it.

Everything changes w/o the tip.

 

[IfAt1st]

Just curious -- have you ever bothered to count the number of times he's made positive plays in pressure situations over his career? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no.

I have no idea what the true answer is, but I do know that the examples you've given don't go a long way in proving your opinion.

Yes, I have watched his use in pressure situations since he came to the Kings. (When he played with the Clippers, he wasn't on the floor much in pressure situations since he was CP3's backup, but I have not watched those games he played when CP3 was injured.)

He doesn't take many pressure shots with the Kings - that usually falls to Cuz or Rudy.
You're right, in that I don't have access to every game or take statistics to back up my mental memory - but the FACT that he has airballed THREE game-critical shots, whereas noone is bringing up their memory of him making game-critical shots (typically last 2 minutes of a close game) suggests he has an issue with performance in clutch situations.
It's not about his shooting % or his missing a shot, even - it's that he has airballed three open shots when all the team needed was for him to hit the rim to cement the game.
That's a problem, and it's not going to go away if we rely on him if this team gets to be competitive.

 

[gunks]

When we miss out on an amazing draft prospect by one pick in the lotto, we can all look back to this win and complain about it.

Then when Vlade picks Jobaz Fhutfhut Humuligan, 18 yr old C prospect from the Turkish Jr. Leagues, we can all complain about that instead.

 

[Suicide King]

When we miss out on an amazing draft prospect by one pick in the lotto, we can all look back to this win and complain about it.

Then when Vlade picks Jobaz Fhutfhut Humuligan, 18 yr old C prospect from the Turkish Jr. Leagues, we can all complain about that instead.

JFH is the next The Dream. Mark my words.

 

[CVKingsfan]

Transcript: NBA Referee Mike Callahan Comments to Pool Reporter after Raptors-Kings Game

http://official.nba.com/transcript-...ts-to-pool-reporter-after-raptors-kings-game/

 

[CyKings]

Raptors officially protest the ending of the game. I assume if the Raptors win, then the two have to play an OT period. Wonder how that will work.

 

[VF21]

Raptors officially protest the ending of the game. I assume if the Raptors win, then the two have to play an OT period. Wonder how that will work.

They're not going to win. They've said nothing that contradicts the interpretation of the rules that led to the disallowance of that last basket. IF they did win, however, the league would have to work out a place and time when the teams could meet to play the overtime.

 

[IfAt1st]

Another option is/was that they replay the last 2.4 seconds of the game.

Not likely due to the cost and scheduling nightmares of getting both teams together again.

 

[Telemachus]

Raptors officially protest the ending of the game. I assume if the Raptors win, then the two have to play an OT period. Wonder how that will work.

I don't think I have ever seen a team win a protest.

 

[Bricklayer]

Raptors officially protest the ending of the game. I assume if the Raptors win, then the two have to play an OT period. Wonder how that will work.

I wouldn't worry too much about them winning. The ending was correct under the NBA's rules, timed by their computers. There's nothing to correct, noty that the NBA ever corrects itself anyway -- was an article on it mentioning in the last 30? years the NBA has been challenged 34 times and corrected exactly 1 of them.

 

[Telemachus]

I wouldn't worry too much about them winning. The ending was correct under the NBA's rules, timed by their computers. There's nothing to correct, noty that the NBA ever corrects itself anyway -- was an article on it mentioning in the last 30? years the NBA has been challenged 34 times and corrected exactly 1 of them.

The funny thing is that they tried to blame it on the "Kings timekeeper". It is one of the refs that controls when the clock starts.

 

[Suicide King]

As I had said previously it was just an ugly situation all around. The correct call was made per the rules. It does not help that the Raptors have been feeling like they are getting a Kings ransom of bad officiating calls lately, including going back to a game V Kings last season.

On one hand I sympathize with them, other the other some fans have been downright ugly to fellow Kings fans for trying to spit the truth. For that I can not sympathize.

 

[John Galt]

Another option is/was that they replay the last 2.4 seconds of the game.

Not likely due to the cost and scheduling nightmares of getting both teams together again.

I agree. They shouldn't consider an overturn to allow a basket that was launched after time ran out. All they could maybe do in the most far fetched scenario is to replay the last 2.4 seconds due to clock malfunction (and then OT if necessary).

But it's BS. Would they claim that the shot would have launched faster if not for the clock malfunction? Should we believe that the guy was timing it to milk that last .9 off the clock before he shot the ball? nah... it's game over. They got it right on replay using modern technology.

If we were going to be meeting again in regular season I wouldn't put it past the NBA to do that. But to schedule a whole trip to replay what most likely would amount to one very quick and futile play??

Maybe it could be the half-time show at the All Star game - the replay of the last 2.4 from Raptors v Kings November game lol

 

[Telemachus]

The NBA just ruled against Denver's protest even though the NBA admitted that they got the call wrong.

In that game, they ruled that the ball went out of bounds off of Mudiay with . 07 seconds left. Gasol then hit a 3 at the buzzer to win the game for Memphis. They said that the replay refs didn't take time to look at all the angles (which showed that Mudiay didn't touch the ball). However, they still didn't overturn the ruling.