[Game] Kings v. Pelicans - Saturday, Jan. 4 - 7PT/10ET

[NewArena]

weird night overall though. Memphis blew out the Clips, and they got booed at home. Washington beat Denver, and charlotte beat Luka and the Mavs

 

[sactowndog]

We shall see what the next two games hold but it’s becoming clear this team isn’t that good. As always they are a couple years away from being a couple years away.

 

[rosa u podne]

weird night overall though. Memphis blew out the Clips, and they got booed at home. Washington beat Denver, and charlotte beat Luka and the Mavs

Hangover?

 

[chief bromden]

Buddy is definitely having a bad year, but I think a big part of it is not his fault. We have designed a system asking him to do more than he’s capable of. A $95 mil contract will do that.

Watching tonight’s game, it was so clear that Buddy’s role should be what Reddick’s role has been his entire career. 3pt specialist, make smart decisions, find open teammates but limited dribbling and shot creation.

This. I think a lot of the Buddy dissenters are misdirecting their ire. Walton mentioned the other night that they are trying to progress Buddy's ball handling, decision making, and shot creation so that he can come through in more important games when defenses are really keying their game plan to stop him. I'm not sure that he is that player, but I can respect the vision that the coaching staff has (and possibly the front office too). I think Buddy is executing the coaches plan, but it leads to a lot of bad plays because he's Buddy. Will he improve? It looks like the Kings are banking on that being a reality. Seems to me that they are putting the cart before the horse.

I like Buddy because he's always out there trying to win. Sometimes it leads to bad plays, but he also has plays like that strip steal late in the game that was really clutch.

 

[Groovygreg]

For some reason? Yes, there is a reason, and I feel my previous posts have made it clear, but I'll explain it again. I am defending Buddy for the same reason that I defended WCS last year and for the same reason that I have defended several other players in the past (on this board and others) and for the same reason that I am certain I will defend yet other players in the future: I have witnessed, time and again on internet boards, the phenomenon of one player - not a blameless player, mind you - being unfairly singled out for levels of scorn that wildly overemphasize the magnitude of the things that player does poorly and wildly undervalue the things that player does well, and then watched that unfair reputation spread like wildfire through the board's fanbase until that player became the single, reviled scapegoat for everything wrong with the team. Unfortunately, this scapegoating phenomenon, though it is lazy, and it is tribalistic, and it is mean-spirited, appears to be a fundamental aspect of human nature. It happens over and over and over again, and it is easy once one sees it to find it in many if not most areas of human interaction and not just in the sporting internet. I, being ever optimistic, for whatever reason try my hardest to get my fellow man to reject the lazy, tribalistic and mean-spirited scapegoating and to be more patient and more circumspect. It doesn't seem to work very often. But still I try.

Branding a growing cacophony of concerned voices as “lazy” and “tribalistic” is very dismissive and condescending. How about when the team is winning and the fan-base is expressing excitement about the team? Is that just mindless “group think” as well? Get real, my friend. Here’s what it comes down to: If these so-called “scapegoats” played to the level expected and deserved by the fans then you wouldn’t need to make it your personal crusade to defend them. You are not any more enlightened than anyone else who has an opinion.

 

[sactowndog]

Branding a growing cacophony of concerned voices as “lazy” and “tribalistic” is very dismissive and condescending. How about when the team is winning and the fan-base is expressing excitement about the team? Is that just mindless “group think” as well? Get real, my friend. Here’s what it comes down to: If these so-called “scapegoats” played to the level expected and deserved by the fans then you wouldn’t need to make it your personal crusade to defend them. You are not any more enlightened than anyone else that has an opinion.

I think Captain is correct and in fact so does Fox.


“I was bad in every aspect of the game,” Fox said. “I was out there in crunch time and just didn’t make plays for us.

“Missed free throws, missed layups. I wasn’t great defensively tonight.”

Fox was 5-11 on free throws. He only had 5 assists to 3 turnovers. Lastly his defense was not strong as Ball went off. For this team to be good Fox has to be a lock down defender. He was not. Fox was a team worst -21.

 

[Kingster]

This. I think a lot of the Buddy dissenters are misdirecting their ire. Walton mentioned the other night that they are trying to progress Buddy's ball handling, decision making, and shot creation so that he can come through in more important games when defenses are really keying their game plan to stop him. I'm not sure that he is that player, but I can respect the vision that the coaching staff has (and possibly the front office too). I think Buddy is executing the coaches plan, but it leads to a lot of bad plays because he's Buddy. Will he improve? It looks like the Kings are banking on that being a reality. Seems to me that they are putting the cart before the horse.

I like Buddy because he's always out there trying to win. Sometimes it leads to bad plays, but he also has plays like that strip steal late in the game that was really clutch.

I agree with this much of this. The Kings agreed to extend the Hield contract for four years at a price of $86 million (minimum). It's clear they weren't paying the $86 mill for a 6th-man shootist type. You pay maybe $8-$15 mill/year for those kind of guys. They were paying for the promise of a versatile starting two-guard who defends, shoots, and makes plays off the dribble.

IMO, he is not that man. He doesn't have the DNA to be that man. Maybe I'm wrong and one day he becomes that man, but 36 games into the season this 27 year old is not remotely that kind of player. Using Christie's language, he's a "hooper," not a basketball player. Walton and his staff are trying everything in their power into making him into the basketball player that they were hoping to get. It's not working. It's like trying to teach intermediate algebra to a student who has trouble with fractions. And to my mind it's affecting the rest of the team. When you preach defense and you keep your best young defender on the bench (JJ) in lieu of Buddy, you aren't helping your team. When you preach making the right decisions and playing the right way and you keep one of your highest BBIQ players on the bench (JJ), instead of Buddy you are not helping your team.

Kings management must re-define their vision for Buddy Hield. IMO, they either need to reduce his role on this team and make him into a 6th man type who primarily shoots off the pass and guards the opposing teams' backups, or they need to trade him to another team. Stop trying to fit the square object into the round hole. Come to grips with who Buddy Hield is as a player.

 

[joemama]

Within about 4 minutes you said "And of course their 2G is scoring, just like last game", implying that Buddy Hield's defense was once again weak allowing the opposing SG to be scoring. Of those 7 early Redick points, 2 - I did not see what happened because it was off an inbounds play and the camera was showing the inbounder. 3 was scored in transition when Buddy Hield was matched up across the court, he ends up in the play running to close cross court on Redick's corner 3 because NO swung the ball around. The last 3 was a Redick pullup in transition over Buddy Hield who was right there - a great shot and nothing to do with the defense. As for the rest of the game, how was Hield's defense? Did he allow straight line drives? Did he allow back door cuts? But of course, no mention from his critics.

He makes a nice extra pass to CoJo for 3. Any mention from critics? No - he's a ball stopper and ball movement dies with him apparently. He got 12 rebounds this game. Any mention? No - he doesn't do anything else to try and help the team win. He just wants to score and if he's not doing that he's not trying to help the team apparently.

Where's the criticism of Fox's free throws? How about his TOs?

Maybe you and other critics need to accept that you've already decided what Hield is.

Fox did have a bad game and he took credit for the loss.
Fox 3 TO
Buddy 7 TO

Yes, buddy got some rebounds but you act like he was guarding Reddick (he wasn't).
Mr. "Everybody gets scored on" was

Well I’m sure it’s a system Walton has created with heavy influence from Vlade.

It’s a system where we have Buddy dribbling the ball up and Buddy doing a lot of the pick and rolls (this is where we see a lot of steals, bad passes, contested 3s, etc).

If you watched tonight’s game, all you have to do is contrast what he’s being called to do vs. what Reddick is. And I believe that’s part of the design as we’re paying him a boatload of money and need him to show his worth.

I can't see why some defend poor defense, lose handles, poor decision making, contested 3s, bad passes, attitude, barking at other players, horrible efficiency, etc. Oh but he grabbed some boards, so we should be thanking our lucky stars.

Buddy used to be a good shooter, but when was the last efficient game? I can't remember it. Last night he shot 7 of 20. That's 35%. His SEVEN turnovers are more than double anyone on the team. His mistakes kill momentum every.single.game.now. It's not a slump. If it were he would have a *decent game here and there, but he doesn't.

Buddy sux. Period.

 

[Livinthedream]

This. I think a lot of the Buddy dissenters are misdirecting their ire. Walton mentioned the other night that they are trying to progress Buddy's ball handling, decision making, and shot creation so that he can come through in more important games when defenses are really keying their game plan to stop him. I'm not sure that he is that player, but I can respect the vision that the coaching staff has (and possibly the front office too). I think Buddy is executing the coaches plan, but it leads to a lot of bad plays because he's Buddy. Will he improve? It looks like the Kings are banking on that being a reality. Seems to me that they are putting the cart before the horse.

I like Buddy because he's always out there trying to win. Sometimes it leads to bad plays, but he also has plays like that strip steal late in the game that was really clutch.

I think the main issue is the coaching staff has a longterm plan and the fans want to win immediately.

The organization surely does not have the opinion that a player cannot improve their skills.

 

[Groovygreg]

I think Captain is correct and in fact so does Fox.


“I was bad in every aspect of the game,” Fox said. “I was out there in crunch time and just didn’t make plays for us.

“Missed free throws, missed layups. I wasn’t great defensively tonight.”

Fox was 5-11 on free throws. He only had 5 assists to 3 turnovers. Lastly his defense was not strong as Ball went off. For this team to be good Fox has to be a lock down defender. He was not. Fox was a team worst -21.

You are talking about ONE particular game; I was speaking to a much larger point - two completely different discussions.

 

[Showtime]

Fox seems to be self aware. Buddy isn't, and always has an excuse. I would rather have guys who can hold themselves accountable rather than point fingers.

 

[kb02]

Kings should’ve won last night’s game, but the story of the season continues—bad free throw shooting, no ball movement, & turnovers.

Fox really needs to work on his mid range—Hayes n Favors were running to the paint whenever Fox drove, leading to a number of misses.

Good Buddy and Bad Buddy showed up last night. Made shots, had 12 boards, but had 7 turnovers n got torched by Reddick, Hart (insert whoever he was guarding). He is what he is. Make him a 6 man or trade him.

 

[Heuge]

 

[sactowndog]

Fox did have a bad game and he took credit for the loss.
Fox 3 TO
Buddy 7 TO

Yes, buddy got some rebounds but you act like he was guarding Reddick (he wasn't).
Mr. "Everybody gets scored on" was


I can't see why some defend poor defense, lose handles, poor decision making, contested 3s, bad passes, attitude, barking at other players, horrible efficiency, etc. Oh but he grabbed some boards, so we should be thanking our lucky stars.

Buddy used to be a good shooter, but when was the last efficient game? I can't remember it. Last night he shot 7 of 20. That's 35%. His SEVEN turnovers are more than double anyone on the team. His mistakes kill momentum every.single.game.now. It's not a slump. If it were he would have a *decent game here and there, but he doesn't.

Buddy sux. Period.

I think you are missing the point. Buddy’s defense needs to be better. I also personally wish they would minimize his time on the ball. But those truths don’t mean Buddy is exclusively what is wrong with this team and solely responsible for every loss.

Fox has often been a defensive sieve and has missed critical free throws.

Ariza has on more than one occasion failed to switch at end of games.

Bogi has played like crap this year.

Barnes has been very inconsistent.

This team has plenty of blame to spread around.

 

[sactowndog]

You are talking about ONE particular game; I was speaking to a much larger point - two completely different discussions.

I talking about Buddy being the scapegoat for every game. Including this one.

 

[sactowndog]

Fox seems to be self aware. Buddy isn't, and always has an excuse. I would rather have guys who can hold themselves accountable rather than point fingers.

Good lord... I’m not the biggest Buddy fan but how many times have we heard Buddy say “it was my fault”.

 

[jellyfish]

weird night overall though. Memphis blew out the Clips, and they got booed at home. Washington beat Denver, and charlotte beat Luka and the Mavs

In those cases all the Mavs, Nuggets and Clippers are clearly better teams but in our case we are equally as crap as the Pels I don't see the comparison. The Pelicans are 1 game back of the Kings.............

 

[steelevt]

View attachment 9455

we all saw it. Except the ref staring right at it apparently.

 

[ppine]

I think the main issue is the coaching staff has a longterm plan and the fans want to win immediately.

The organization surely does not have the opinion that a player cannot improve their skills.

Everyone wants to win immediately especially the coaching staff. See it for what it is.

 

[Groovygreg]

I talking about Buddy being the scapegoat for every game. Including this one.

That statement is an absurdly inaccurate generalization, but feel free to continue being an apologist for Buddy.

 

[SLAB]

That statement is an absurdly inaccurate generalization, but feel free to continue being an apologist for Buddy.

There was an entire thread about Fox not being on track anymore, Barnes is routinely criticized as -an overpayed non-winning invisible man, all Bagley threads get locked because people are too vocal about him for reasons, but sure the entire fanbase is only piling on Buddy. Lol, it’s silly.

Basically there’s more than enough blame going around for everyone.

 

[Kings_of_California]

There was an entire thread about Fox not being on track anymore, Barnes is routinely criticized as -an overpayed non-winning invisible man, all Bagley threads get locked because people are too vocal about him for reasons, but sure the entire fanbase is only piling on Buddy. Lol, it’s silly.

Basically there’s more than enough blame going around for everyone.

100% correct statement. I've been critical of Buddy, but I've also been very vocal about Barnes being invisible. I've also said that I sometimes doubt Fox's ceiling. Joseph has had his share of criticism too. And yea, my Bagley thread got locked, lol. The peeps on this board are passionate for sure.

 

[Kingster]

I think the main issue is the coaching staff has a longterm plan and the fans want to win immediately.

The organization surely does not have the opinion that a player cannot improve their skills.

This is something we just don't know at this point. Management is not going to voice publicly their concern about a player's ability. We'll know if and when a trade has been announced or a player's minutes are reduced. Dedmon is a good example.

 

[Groovygreg]

There was an entire thread about Fox not being on track anymore, Barnes is routinely criticized as -an overpayed non-winning invisible man, all Bagley threads get locked because people are too vocal about him for reasons, but sure the entire fanbase is only piling on Buddy. Lol, it’s silly.

Basically there’s more than enough blame going around for everyone.

Exactly. Sensible, well-informed fans recognize these facts.

 

[Booster]

Exactly. Sensible, well-informed fans recognize these facts.

The blame belongs on the coach and front office. There is no reason this team should be moving backwards.

 

[mac]

Fox did have a bad game and he took credit for the loss.
Fox 3 TO
Buddy 7 TO

Yes, buddy got some rebounds but you act like he was guarding Reddick (he wasn't).
Mr. "Everybody gets scored on" was


I can't see why some defend poor defense, lose handles, poor decision making, contested 3s, bad passes, attitude, barking at other players, horrible efficiency, etc. Oh but he grabbed some boards, so we should be thanking our lucky stars.

Buddy used to be a good shooter, but when was the last efficient game? I can't remember it. Last night he shot 7 of 20. That's 35%. His SEVEN turnovers are more than double anyone on the team. His mistakes kill momentum every.single.game.now. It's not a slump. If it were he would have a *decent game here and there, but he doesn't.

Buddy sux. Period.

Care to breakdown his defensive plays in this game? It should be pretty easy since you seem to think there was an abundance of it.

Decision making - something Walton has openly praised as being much better. Attitude/barking? How do you know what is being said? Have there been any reports of teammates not being happy with him, or have we resorted to interpreting supposed eyerolls on TV? I mean considering some here had Cousins as their favourite King ...

 

[mac]

There was an entire thread about Fox not being on track anymore, Barnes is routinely criticized as -an overpayed non-winning invisible man, all Bagley threads get locked because people are too vocal about him for reasons, but sure the entire fanbase is only piling on Buddy. Lol, it’s silly.

Basically there’s more than enough blame going around for everyone.

Well I don't know about the entire fanbase, but those who post in the game threads are pretty one-sided towards Buddy. Bagley isn't getting blamed for losses - he's getting blamed for not being Luka and he's barely even playing games anyway.

 

[mac]

Fox seems to be self aware. Buddy isn't, and always has an excuse. I would rather have guys who can hold themselves accountable rather than point fingers.

Didn't he blame himself for the loss against the Spurs? Is that not accountability and self-awareness?

He also sat down with Walton post-rant and says they talked about what he needs to be doing better. Walton in the last two games has spoken well of Buddy in these regards. I thought his defense in this Pelicans game was much improved; we'll have to see if it continues. But my point is that he has shown that he is willing to take responsibility and accountability and work to improve. He's not a perfect player - he has a lot of flaws but he's also in his 4th year and just because we gave him a big contract it isn't going to magically turn him into a star overnight. Look at Barnes and how inconsistent he's been, and he's in his 8th year.

 

[Groovygreg]

The blame belongs on the coach and front office. There is no reason this team should be moving backwards.

I generally agree that the culpability STARTS there, but that doesn’t excuse the sub-par performances that we have seen from some members of the team.

 

[Booster]

I generally agree that the culpability STARTS there, but that doesn’t excuse the sub-par performances that we have seen from some members of the team.

The coach has lost the team.