[Game] Kings v. Pacers - Thursday, March 29, 2018 - 7 PT
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
theclash4u5
Starter
Great game! Very entertaining and a loss, which keeps up from being passed by the Nets and Bulls. 6th place now.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Bogie: 39 minutes, 21 pts, 3 rbs, 4 ast, 1 stl
Buddy: 30 minutes, 20 pts, 7 rbs, 4 ast,
Fox: 27 minutes, 8 pts, 2 rbs, 5 ast, 1 stl
Frank: 20 minutes, 12 pts, 2 rbs, 2 ast
Would've liked to see a bit more from Fox (to his credit, he mostly seemed fine with feeding the ball to the hothanded wings) but it seems that we may have found our backcourt for the foreseeable future.
Buddy: 30 minutes, 20 pts, 7 rbs, 4 ast,
Fox: 27 minutes, 8 pts, 2 rbs, 5 ast, 1 stl
Frank: 20 minutes, 12 pts, 2 rbs, 2 ast
Would've liked to see a bit more from Fox (to his credit, he mostly seemed fine with feeding the ball to the hothanded wings) but it seems that we may have found our backcourt for the foreseeable future.
allrightythen
Starter
Sad I missed tonight's game. Seems like it was a good one. Thanks for giving me a taste by sharing your thoughts here.
John Galt
Starter
the opposite free throw line... unfortunately.
John Galt
Starter
I noted a few weeks ago that it looked like Fox hit the wall and I think he really did. No shame in that - NBA is a long season.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Great game! A win would have been nice, but I guess a loss with that effort is a win/win. Thought most everyone played well. The team is developing good chemistry. It was fun watching Boggie defend Oladipo. Two warriors going at it. I agree with John Galt that Fox has hit the rookie wall. He looks like he has tired legs. He will have played two and half college seasons by the end of the season. Welcome to the NBA....
Was thinking the same thing. One reason it's hard to just "play the kids" all the time. Many of them just can't play that many minutes the first year.
edwardyoung111
G-League
I am not big on reading the fine print (not on "site rules", not on my credit cards or Kings season tix forms either), so, I honestly don't know, but is there some rule against actually anylzing the game, both while in progress and the next day (today)?
Because other than the home win over Celeveland (and the resurgence of VC), this was the best game of the year.
I sat with three different groups of people I had not previously met and there was nonstop interest and amazing focus on the stuff we were seeing.
And I just don't see ANY of those points made on this thread, so, I must conclude that no one on this thread actually visited an absolutely electric arena last night - am I incorrect on that?
And all the "Go Kings" and "BOGIE" comments just don't say anything at all.
I have some serious yardwork to do before it gets hot today, but seriously, is it worth the in-depth analysis, or would that be either not allowed, too frustratingly (for some) long or otherwise not desired?
Regarding "commenting as the game progresses", does any one use Dragon Naturally Speaking?
(I bought it maybe six years ago but, not being tech oriented, have never even unwrapped it).
So, just one (of potentially many) observations from the game:
Did anyone notice that for most of the first half and part of the third quarter (until "their Bogdonovich" pulled away at 15-10), every time one of the Bodonovich's scored, the other demanded the ball at the other end until HE scored?
Seriously, it was like "our" Bogi had "5" (points) while "their" Bogie had "4", so "their Bogey demanded the ball, scored, took the scoring lead, 6-5, then a play or two later, "our" Bogi takes over to score and lead 7-6, then it kept going 8-7, 9-8, 10-9 until their Bogdonovivh pulled away at 15-10.
I assume they played against each other (or together?) in Europe and I was big on us signing "their" Bogey to play WITH "our" Bogi, which easily could have happened, since no one apparently thought much of "their" Bogey during free agency - back then, did anyone on this board advocate for signing "both Bogdonovich's"? If so, link the thread, stand up and take a bow because SF is where we were/are weakest anyway.
Because in my mind, whoever is running the show now in Indiana is runaway "Executive of the Year" and although the main reason is that he made lemonade out of the lemon that was Paul George announcing he would be in LA next year (diminishing his trade value) and got TWO major talents for him (Oladipo, Sabonis), his pickups of Darren Collison AND Bojan Bogdonovic have turned out to be brilliant.
HOW brilliant?
Well, Vegas preseason odds were 28 1/2 (over/under) total wins for Kings (they will fall JUST short) and 31 1/2 for Indiana (last night was their 45th win).
The Kings connection is that in 2016 WE could have drafted Sabonis (we had #8 but traded down to #13 and OKC took Sabonis at #11) and could have kept Collison and signed Bojan. Could have but didn't. (In fairness, trading down brought "our" Bogi but who is to say that we could not have gotten his rights in another way, since Phoenix apparently couldn't or wouldn't sign him)?. I know we also got Papa in that trade (big bronx cheer) and Skal, but might we could gotten Skal anyway at #22 (instead of Malachai)? Sure, hindsight is 20-20 (hey - let's take Mitchell and Kuzma in the 2017 draft while we're at it) and Bogi is a keeper for sure, but I do wish we had done better in that trade (or just drafted better at #13 and #22). Our loss is Indiana's gain.
Geez, I got to get outside and get some work done.
More later, but only if it isn't violating rules or people's preferences.
Check the left hand side (Game Leaders) on below link - I think it is safe to say that you may never see this a box that looks like this again:
http://www.espn.com/nba/game?gameId=400975873
Because other than the home win over Celeveland (and the resurgence of VC), this was the best game of the year.
I sat with three different groups of people I had not previously met and there was nonstop interest and amazing focus on the stuff we were seeing.
And I just don't see ANY of those points made on this thread, so, I must conclude that no one on this thread actually visited an absolutely electric arena last night - am I incorrect on that?
And all the "Go Kings" and "BOGIE" comments just don't say anything at all.
I have some serious yardwork to do before it gets hot today, but seriously, is it worth the in-depth analysis, or would that be either not allowed, too frustratingly (for some) long or otherwise not desired?
Regarding "commenting as the game progresses", does any one use Dragon Naturally Speaking?
(I bought it maybe six years ago but, not being tech oriented, have never even unwrapped it).
So, just one (of potentially many) observations from the game:
Did anyone notice that for most of the first half and part of the third quarter (until "their Bogdonovich" pulled away at 15-10), every time one of the Bodonovich's scored, the other demanded the ball at the other end until HE scored?
Seriously, it was like "our" Bogi had "5" (points) while "their" Bogie had "4", so "their Bogey demanded the ball, scored, took the scoring lead, 6-5, then a play or two later, "our" Bogi takes over to score and lead 7-6, then it kept going 8-7, 9-8, 10-9 until their Bogdonovivh pulled away at 15-10.
I assume they played against each other (or together?) in Europe and I was big on us signing "their" Bogey to play WITH "our" Bogi, which easily could have happened, since no one apparently thought much of "their" Bogey during free agency - back then, did anyone on this board advocate for signing "both Bogdonovich's"? If so, link the thread, stand up and take a bow because SF is where we were/are weakest anyway.
Because in my mind, whoever is running the show now in Indiana is runaway "Executive of the Year" and although the main reason is that he made lemonade out of the lemon that was Paul George announcing he would be in LA next year (diminishing his trade value) and got TWO major talents for him (Oladipo, Sabonis), his pickups of Darren Collison AND Bojan Bogdonovic have turned out to be brilliant.
HOW brilliant?
Well, Vegas preseason odds were 28 1/2 (over/under) total wins for Kings (they will fall JUST short) and 31 1/2 for Indiana (last night was their 45th win).
The Kings connection is that in 2016 WE could have drafted Sabonis (we had #8 but traded down to #13 and OKC took Sabonis at #11) and could have kept Collison and signed Bojan. Could have but didn't. (In fairness, trading down brought "our" Bogi but who is to say that we could not have gotten his rights in another way, since Phoenix apparently couldn't or wouldn't sign him)?. I know we also got Papa in that trade (big bronx cheer) and Skal, but might we could gotten Skal anyway at #22 (instead of Malachai)? Sure, hindsight is 20-20 (hey - let's take Mitchell and Kuzma in the 2017 draft while we're at it) and Bogi is a keeper for sure, but I do wish we had done better in that trade (or just drafted better at #13 and #22). Our loss is Indiana's gain.
Geez, I got to get outside and get some work done.
More later, but only if it isn't violating rules or people's preferences.
Check the left hand side (Game Leaders) on below link - I think it is safe to say that you may never see this a box that looks like this again:
http://www.espn.com/nba/game?gameId=400975873
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King Baller
All-Star
Pretty sure the GM in Indy is Kevin Pritchard. He has done a nice job with the Pacers---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Pritchard
And I must say Vlade and crew are doing alright in Sactown. Did not see the game, came here to read the posts. I have it on the DVR and hope to watch it tonight.....Go Kings!.........Bogie!......Buddy!........Skal!........Fox!........Justin!..........Kosta!..........Garrett!.......Willie!
Too many people lose site of the fact that these kids come from playing 40 minute games, twice a week with a regional travel schedule, for half the duration of the NBA schedule. And then they say "oh he'll never be a star" as if most star PGs took over the league their rookie season.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Oladipo is a good example of a guy who didn't exactly set the world on fire after being drafted. It took him a few years. Now he's a very good two-way guard.
Oladipo was the 2nd pick in the draft in 2013. On June 23, 2016, he was traded by Orlando along with Ersan İlyasova and the draft rights to Domantas Sabonis, to the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for Serge Ibaka. (Orlando has got to be kicking themselves in all the wrong places for doing that trade). On July 6, 2017, he was traded by OKC, along with Domantas Sabonis, to the Indiana Pacers in exchange for Paul George. Now at age 25 he's a top tier NBA guard. It's a valuable lesson for patience with young players and also it's the kind of successful trade that Divac needs to do in the future - getting a guy who has talent but with so-so performance in his prior teams, only to have him flower on the Kings.
Oladipo was the 2nd pick in the draft in 2013. On June 23, 2016, he was traded by Orlando along with Ersan İlyasova and the draft rights to Domantas Sabonis, to the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for Serge Ibaka. (Orlando has got to be kicking themselves in all the wrong places for doing that trade). On July 6, 2017, he was traded by OKC, along with Domantas Sabonis, to the Indiana Pacers in exchange for Paul George. Now at age 25 he's a top tier NBA guard. It's a valuable lesson for patience with young players and also it's the kind of successful trade that Divac needs to do in the future - getting a guy who has talent but with so-so performance in his prior teams, only to have him flower on the Kings.
I doubt we move Fox but I am a believer in Young he will be a stud and since Bogdan is a big SG with decent defense they’re fit.
I do think he’d move Fox to go up for Doncic
Also if we did grab Young I think a team like Cleveland would trade there pick for Fox and some pieces. They’re probably favor Fox to a guy like Mikal Bridges or Wendell Carter at 8
Go into next year with Young-Bogdan-Bridges that’s new era basketball with elite shooting
The game thread (as I have tried to explain previously) was created so fans NOT IN ATTENDANCE could share a bit of the game time experience. We're sitting at home watching the game and reacting via KF the way we would in G1C. We've been doing it for years. There is post-game discussion, but because of all the other stuff going on we have a lot of members who aren't participating as much as they normally would.
We actually separated the game-time discussion from a post-game analysis but as time went by it seemed rather unnecessary since some threads barely made it past a couple of pages. We do try, often with a bit of overlap, to stick to the thread format so people who want to talk about the topic in the OP don't have to wade through a bunch of stuff that is a different discussion. Hope this helps to clarify.
Go Kings!
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MOD NOTE: I've moved a few posts into new threads (Justin Jackson and Buddy Hield) so the discussions have a good chance of being seen on their own and not buried in a game thread. 
edwardyoung111
G-League
The game thread (as I have tried to explain previously) was created so fans NOT IN ATTENDANCE could share a bit of the game time experience. We're sitting at home watching the game and reacting via KF the way we would in G1C. We've been doing it for years. There is post-game discussion, but because of all the other stuff going on we have a lot of members who aren't participating as much as they normally would.
We actually separated the game-time discussion from a post-game analysis but as time went by it seemed rather unnecessary since some threads barely made it past a couple of pages. We do try, often with a bit of overlap, to stick to the thread format so people who want to talk about the topic in the OP don't have to wade through a bunch of stuff that is a different discussion. Hope this helps to clarify.
------------------------------------------
I am trying to understand the above but it is difficult.
Initially, you seem to be saying that someone who is or was not at the game should not be commenting (at least, during the game).
So, if I WERE to use Dragon Naturally Speaking (because I'm not going to LOOK at my device while I am at the game), the fact that I was commenting FROM the arena while IN attendance would not be welcomed.
That seems short sighted.
As does moving posts I made which use videos OF the game (from the referee's report).
Plus, it makes it more difficult for me, since if I want to review, I can't go to a game WHERE they occurred (which will be in a logical place in the stack - i.e., Game 76 will logically be found somewhere between Game 75 and Game 77), but have to locate a thread on a player which may be anywhere in the stack (from abandoned/concluded in April to still being current in September).
Since I TOOK the time to document the game, why not leave my contributions in BOTH places?
Because I intended to conclude with two examples (based on my game attendance) as to why I am coming to conclude that while Joerger may be a good coach in SOME ways (comparing/contrasting the lack of arguments between players to, for example, Yogi Ferrell's blow up at a teammate in the previous game), the way he was outcoached in the Indiana game in a very specific way makes me doubt his preparatory talents - and I would place that here, but I guess you would move it (instead of leaving it in both places).
Perhaps less people are participating because you are making it more difficult than it has to be. Or maybe you are just trying to send a message. Message taken, I guess, but I will still add a point about this game, but without making reference to the source of the problem (Joerger), so that it is not moved or otherwise disappeared.
Background:
Teams scout other teams and make game plans.
For example, on our first possession in the (home) Charlotte game, it was apparent that they were going to play Buddy to force him to dribble. The very first time he touched the ball, the defender was right in his grill, denying him any chance to get off a step back jumper (not that he really jumps -he has more of a Magic Johnson set/push shot, which is easier to defend if you play him tight, conceding that you are giving him an easy opportunity to drive by the defender).
In the Indiana game, I saw somthing that I almost never see in a Kings game - that the Pacers were sending three players to crash the boards for offensive rebounds on every offensive possession, certain tht Joerger would NOT respond by exhorting his team to PUSH the ball upcourt for easy break baskets.
And it totally succeeded. Not that they got a ton of offensive rebounds (8), but on many occassions, their rebounders tipped the ball into the air where one or the other team finally corralled it, but too late for a break the other way.
Oddly, since Indiana was also never going to push the ball, the Kings ALSO begn crashing the boards on offensive shots.
They NEVER do that.
In fact, it is often the case where, when a King shoots, EVERYONE (on the Kings) immediately heads back to set up a defensive alignment.
But in this game, since neither team was going to push, both teams crashed.
I can only say that if you went back and looked at plays in the Dallas game, they would look substantially different than those in the Indiana game in terms of offensive rebounders crashing the boards.
Yes, Joerger reacted, by having his players emulate Indiana, but he never found away to have his team push the ball and make them pay - so they continued to crash. At the game, as I and other seatmates continued to observe and discuss this phenomena, Indiana seemed to get the better of this.
I guess we will never be a running team, which is odd, because that is why Malone was discarded.
This was a game where Joerger almost never left the bench (as he sometimes does).
And, other than time-outs, Joerger never appeared to "call plays". Which is how he often does it - they are freelancing.
Compared to Rick Carlisle in game 75, it was night and day. Literally every time (in the second half of the Dallas game, when I sat three rows behind the Dallas bench), Carlisle was on his feet after every made basket and the point guard always brought the ball up next to him and received a series of numbers (plays, sets or both) from the coach - it was a very tactically planned example of game coaching.
So, what I learned from the Indiana game is that Joerger appears to want his team to freelance rather than run set plays and even if you give the Kings break opportunities (by crashing the boards), they will not take them. I expect other teams to observe this also and penalize the Kings for their predictability under Joerger.
BTW, Oladipo coasted until crunch time, then took over. It was as though he knew that no one could guard him, but waned to save it for later, so they would not have a chance to adjust/react. Up until the end, it was Sabonis they were running the offense through and even in the fourth, he was still calling for the ball - except at that time, it went to Oladipo. So, Sabonis stood alone, hand outstretched, but stopped getting the ball, but was still so much more effective than Turner that McMillan HAD to leave him in - that guy is a keeper.
We actually separated the game-time discussion from a post-game analysis but as time went by it seemed rather unnecessary since some threads barely made it past a couple of pages. We do try, often with a bit of overlap, to stick to the thread format so people who want to talk about the topic in the OP don't have to wade through a bunch of stuff that is a different discussion. Hope this helps to clarify.
------------------------------------------
I am trying to understand the above but it is difficult.
Initially, you seem to be saying that someone who is or was not at the game should not be commenting (at least, during the game).
So, if I WERE to use Dragon Naturally Speaking (because I'm not going to LOOK at my device while I am at the game), the fact that I was commenting FROM the arena while IN attendance would not be welcomed.
That seems short sighted.
As does moving posts I made which use videos OF the game (from the referee's report).
Plus, it makes it more difficult for me, since if I want to review, I can't go to a game WHERE they occurred (which will be in a logical place in the stack - i.e., Game 76 will logically be found somewhere between Game 75 and Game 77), but have to locate a thread on a player which may be anywhere in the stack (from abandoned/concluded in April to still being current in September).
Since I TOOK the time to document the game, why not leave my contributions in BOTH places?
Because I intended to conclude with two examples (based on my game attendance) as to why I am coming to conclude that while Joerger may be a good coach in SOME ways (comparing/contrasting the lack of arguments between players to, for example, Yogi Ferrell's blow up at a teammate in the previous game), the way he was outcoached in the Indiana game in a very specific way makes me doubt his preparatory talents - and I would place that here, but I guess you would move it (instead of leaving it in both places).
Perhaps less people are participating because you are making it more difficult than it has to be. Or maybe you are just trying to send a message. Message taken, I guess, but I will still add a point about this game, but without making reference to the source of the problem (Joerger), so that it is not moved or otherwise disappeared.
Background:
Teams scout other teams and make game plans.
For example, on our first possession in the (home) Charlotte game, it was apparent that they were going to play Buddy to force him to dribble. The very first time he touched the ball, the defender was right in his grill, denying him any chance to get off a step back jumper (not that he really jumps -he has more of a Magic Johnson set/push shot, which is easier to defend if you play him tight, conceding that you are giving him an easy opportunity to drive by the defender).
In the Indiana game, I saw somthing that I almost never see in a Kings game - that the Pacers were sending three players to crash the boards for offensive rebounds on every offensive possession, certain tht Joerger would NOT respond by exhorting his team to PUSH the ball upcourt for easy break baskets.
And it totally succeeded. Not that they got a ton of offensive rebounds (8), but on many occassions, their rebounders tipped the ball into the air where one or the other team finally corralled it, but too late for a break the other way.
Oddly, since Indiana was also never going to push the ball, the Kings ALSO begn crashing the boards on offensive shots.
They NEVER do that.
In fact, it is often the case where, when a King shoots, EVERYONE (on the Kings) immediately heads back to set up a defensive alignment.
But in this game, since neither team was going to push, both teams crashed.
I can only say that if you went back and looked at plays in the Dallas game, they would look substantially different than those in the Indiana game in terms of offensive rebounders crashing the boards.
Yes, Joerger reacted, by having his players emulate Indiana, but he never found away to have his team push the ball and make them pay - so they continued to crash. At the game, as I and other seatmates continued to observe and discuss this phenomena, Indiana seemed to get the better of this.
I guess we will never be a running team, which is odd, because that is why Malone was discarded.
This was a game where Joerger almost never left the bench (as he sometimes does).
And, other than time-outs, Joerger never appeared to "call plays". Which is how he often does it - they are freelancing.
Compared to Rick Carlisle in game 75, it was night and day. Literally every time (in the second half of the Dallas game, when I sat three rows behind the Dallas bench), Carlisle was on his feet after every made basket and the point guard always brought the ball up next to him and received a series of numbers (plays, sets or both) from the coach - it was a very tactically planned example of game coaching.
So, what I learned from the Indiana game is that Joerger appears to want his team to freelance rather than run set plays and even if you give the Kings break opportunities (by crashing the boards), they will not take them. I expect other teams to observe this also and penalize the Kings for their predictability under Joerger.
BTW, Oladipo coasted until crunch time, then took over. It was as though he knew that no one could guard him, but waned to save it for later, so they would not have a chance to adjust/react. Up until the end, it was Sabonis they were running the offense through and even in the fourth, he was still calling for the ball - except at that time, it went to Oladipo. So, Sabonis stood alone, hand outstretched, but stopped getting the ball, but was still so much more effective than Turner that McMillan HAD to leave him in - that guy is a keeper.
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