[Game] Kings v. Jazz - Saturday, March 3 - 7 PT

#91
Gobert is a slightly above average big playing in a small ball era where he gets to take advantage of much smaller players via switches -- which makes him look better than he really is. Utah is one of the rare teams that actually plays to the strengths and advantages they have rather than trying to match their opponent. Kudos to them for that.
Gobert is quite a bit better that "slightly above average". Friday when Utah played Minny He frustrated Towns enough so Towns gets two technical fouls and was ejected. IMO Gobert is the best rim protector/goalie in the NBA. One of the top centers in the NBA. Perhaps the best defensive center.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#93
Another good game for Skal. He's getting better both on defending the 3s and his interior help defense. Fox looked pretty good, as did Bogs. Just not enough from anybody else. Buddy was a big disappointment in this game, dribbling a lot but going nowhere with the ball.
 
#94
Gobert is a slightly above average big playing in a small ball era where he gets to take advantage of much smaller players via switches -- which makes him look better than he really is. Utah is one of the rare teams that actually plays to the strengths and advantages they have rather than trying to match their opponent. Kudos to them for that.
Lol....
 
#95
Gobert is a slightly above average big playing in a small ball era where he gets to take advantage of much smaller players via switches -- which makes him look better than he really is. Utah is one of the rare teams that actually plays to the strengths and advantages they have rather than trying to match their opponent. Kudos to them for that.
I LOL'd at this comment so freaking hard that I probably LOL'd my way out of LOL'ing for the rest of my life...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#96
Neither are even close to incredible. One of them probably won’t even be with team next year. Mark my words
Did I say ARE incredible? Nope. I said I still believe they CAN be incredible. You can disagree but that doesn't make me wrong. Nor does your assertion that one of them probably won't even be with the team. Do you ever see anything you like with the Kings?
 
#97
Skal isn't really a fit anywhere on either end. If you play him as a C on defense, then he offers absolutely no rim protection, rebounding, nor size. He's a liability on the floor until he proves otherwise.

I do think he's best long-term at the C position because he just doesn't have the footspeed to guard PFs. He's got a long way until he amounts into something positive.

I know Jackson is only a rookie, but I don't know how anyone could look at him and go, "yeah, he's definitely a part of our future". Unassertive SF who struggles to impact the game. He's also an extremely inconsistent 3pt shooter. Not talking Buddy Hield inconsistent..but wide-off the mark inconsistent. His shot zone is horrific. He's only good at shooting on the left corner. Everywhere else is well below league average.
You are way off on Skal and inexplicably bias against the Haitian Sensation but I could not agree with you more on Justin Jackson.

Its embarrassing that this guy was the #15 pick and so easily defers and plays the beta role, especially on a night when Donovan rolls into town and dominates.

Jackson is not even trying to establish himself as a formidable player. He would rather just get out of the way and not make too much fuss.

At least Willie is trying to expand his game though the results are C+ at best.

Then you have Vlade and Peja sitting over there smugly acting as if they did not make an egregious mistake.

I knew Donovan was an awesome player just like I know Miles Bridges and Ayton are incredible prospects who are going to take the NBA by storm in 2018-19.

If I would have had the chance to see Donovan in workouts and interview him I would have been double convinced. His slam dunks at the All-Star Break were even more ferocious and explosive than I thought him capable.

Even with future superstar De'Aaron there was a place on the team for Donovan.

There is always room on team for another star who creates gravity AND defensive havoc.

Peja and Vlade are pathetic for passing on Donovan for Justin Jackson.

Their only redemption is the potential of Harry Giles being realized or else dual pink slips should be immediately dispensed.

JaKarr Sampson is better than Justin Jackson.

The only reason Justin plays over JaKarr is because one was a mid first round pick and one was an undrafted two way player.

Justin gets the minutes over JaKarr not based on merit but to try to justify the assessment of the front office.

Why is Justin deferring to other teammates who aren't very good ??? Where is his confidence and moxie???

Grow some facial hair and prove you belong.

Justin Jackson is skinny and timid and average athletically. Pump some iron and listen to Metallica and Tony Robbins.

This is why I like Frank Mason despite his recent struggles. He has a warrior mentality. He is no slave to a woman. His true love is the pumpkin.
His struggles will not last. Wait and see.

I thought the defense last night was more sturdy in the absence of Willie with Skal doing his modest best. His timing is good and his intensity was what I like to see.

Willie is not a good defender. He's a formidable lob target. and rim runner. Besides that he's late to react and slow to rotate. He's a bit of joke with his laissez faire attitude and drunk-like lateral mobility.

His ineptitude has been masked by the larger ineptitude of Z-Bud. Just because Randolph is a woeful immobile defender does make Willie competent by contrast.

This is why we need to throw a MAX OFFER at Julius Randle and why I predict we will.

I think our front office is incompetent but no so much so that they will not recognize the obvious, that is, Randle is the exact type of player we need. A portion of the money we could potentially reserve to extend Willie will be FAR better spent on a true impact player.

The Lakers are ranked #11 in the NBA in defensive efficiency!!! Wow thats great! We are ranked #29 second to last behind the Suns.

One of the main reasons are defense is SO pathetic is because we get shredded in the pick and roll with Willie and/or Z-Bud and/or Skal trying to show and create a wall to prevent penetration. This is where Skal did a BETTER job than Willie (and Z-Bud) and where Randle is better than ANY of these guys.

Randle has quick feet and can show and rotate. He's twice the defender AND scorer than Willie.

This is why when it comes to the draft the notion of taking bean poles like Jaren Jackson and Michael Porter is laughable.

When the season started I asserted the strength of the team was the backcourt. That was before knowing how good Boggy would be and how bad George Hill would be. One player offsets another and the strength of the team remains.

To resolve the deficiency there is NO room for more bad defenders in free agency or draft. With Fox (a future 20+ PPG scorer if I ever saw one) and Boggy and Skal and Buddy, I am not worried about our offense.

In fact, one thing exciting for Kings fans to look forward is Giles (best pick setter on the team per Temple) setting a high pick for Fox for him and then generating action off this.

The high pick and roll is what the Jazz do with Donovan and Gobert and what the Thunder do with Westbrook and Adams. This is what we need with Fox once we have a versatile pick setter who can punish the opponent more ways than one.

We need a BIG who can set teeth-rattling picks and roll to the rim or pop and swish. This is NOT Wiillie. This may be Giles. This is DEFINITELY Randle. This could be Skal once he bulks up.

My main point s the core of this team is 5-6 players deep if I am generous not 8 deep as I have heard elsewhere:

- Frank
- Fox
- Boggy
- Skal
- Buddy
- Giles (?)

Who is genuinely confident with Willie and Jackson as building blocks? If players are not obviously part of the solution they are more likely part of the problem. Willie is in the bottom third of starting NBA centers and Jackson has only been a tick better than Malachi. To pretend otherwise is naive.
 
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#98
You are way off on Skal and inexplicably bias against the Haitian Sensation but I could not agree with you more on Justin Jackson.

Its embarrassing that this guy was the #15 pick and so easily defers and plays the beta role, especially on a night when Donovan rolls into town and dominates.

Jackson is not even trying to establish himself as a formidable player. He would rather just get out of the way and not make too much fuss.

At least Willie is trying to expand his game though the results are C+ at best.

Then you have Vlade and Peja sitting over there smugly acting as if they did not make an egregious mistake.

I knew Donovan was an awesome player just like I know Miles Bridges and Ayton are incredible prospects who are going to take the NBA by storm in 2018.

If I would have had the chance to see Donovan in workouts and interview him I would have been double convinced. His slam dunks at the All-Star Break were even more ferocious and explosive than I thought him capable.

Even with future superstar De'Aaron there was a place on the team for Donovan.

There is always room on team for another star who creates gravity AND defensive havoc.

Peja and Vlade are pathetic for passing on Donovan for Justin Jackson.

Their only redemption is the potential of Harry Giles being realized or else dual pink slips should be immediately dispensed.

JaKarr Sampson is better than Justin Jackson.

The only reason Justin plays over JaKarr is because one was a mid first round pick and one was an undrafted two way player.

Justin gets the minutes over JaKarr not based on merit but to try to justify the assessment of the front office.

Why is Justin deferring to other teammates who aren't very good ??? Where is his confidence and moxie???

Grow some facial hair and prove you belong.

Justin Jackson is skinny and timid and average athletically. Pump some iron and listen to Metallica and Tony Robbins.

He wears his wedding ring on the floor. He is whipped by a female. Not a good sign.

I am all in favor of love and commitment but when you need to be warrior on the basketball not a love-stricken puppy dog.

Take off the wedding band and put on an arm band and take no prisoners.

This is why I like Frank Mason despite his recent struggles. He has a warrior mentality. He is no slave to a woman. His true love is the pumpkin.
His struggles will not last. Wait and see.

I thought the defense last night was more sturdy in the absence of Willie with Skal doing his modest best. His timing is good and his intensity was what I like to see.

Willie is not a good defender. He's a formidable lob target. and rim runner. Besides that he's late to react and slow to rotate. He's a bit of joke with his laissez faire attitude and drunk-like lateral mobility. His ineptitude has been masked by the larger ineptitude of Z-Bud. Just because Randolph is a woeful immobile defender does make Willie a competent by contrast.

This is why we need to throw a MAX OFFER at Julius Randle and why I predict we will.

I think our front office is incompetent but no so much so that they will not recognize the obvious, that is, Randle is the exact type of player we need. A portion of the money we could potentially reserve to extend Willie will be FAR better spent on a true impact player.

The Lakers are ranked #11 in the NBA in defensive efficiency!!! Wow thats great! We are ranked #29 second to last behind the Suns.

One of the main reasons are defensive is SO pathetic is because we get shredded in the pick and roll with Willie and/or Z-Bud and/or Skal trying to show and create a wall to prevent penetration. This is where Skal did a BETTER job than Willie (and Z-Bud and where Randle is better than ANY of these guys. Randle has quick feet and can show and rotate. He's twice the defender AND scorer than Willie.

This is why when it comes to the draft the notion of taking bean poles like Jared Jackson and Michael Porter is laughable.

When the season started I asserted the strength of the team was the backcourt. That was before knowing how good Boggy would be and how bad George Hill would be. One player offsets another and the strength of the team remain.

To resolve the deficiency there is NO room for more bad defenders in free agency or draft. With Fox (a future 20+ PPG scorer if I ever saw one) and Boggy and Skal and Buddy, I am not worried about our offense. In fact, one thing exciting for Kings fans to look forward is Giles (best pick setter on the team per Temple) setting a high pick for Fox for him and then generating action off this.

The high pick and roll is what the Jazz do with Donovan and Gobert and what the Thunder do with Westbrook and Adams. This is what we need with Fox once we have a versatile pick setter who can punish the opponent more ways than one.

We need a BIG who can set teeth-rattling picks and roll to the rim or pop and swish. This is NOT Wiillie. This may be Giles. This is DEFINITELY Randle. This could be Skal once he bulks up.

My main point s the core of this team is 5-6 players deep if I am generous not 8 deep as I have heard elsewhere:

- Frank
- Fox
- Boggy
- Skal
- Buddy
- Giles (?)

Who is genuinely confident with Willie and Jackson as building blocks? If players are not obviously part of the solution they are more likely part of the problem. Willie is in the bottom third of starting NBA centers and Jackson has only been a tick better than Malachi. To pretend otherwise is naive.
While I don’t agree with you on everything, I appreciate your analysis. You make some very good points.
 
It was 1 game where the best PF he went up against was Michael Beasley...

I'll need more than a 1 game sample size. 6rebs in 34mins is also a red flag and does nothing to dismiss the lack of rebounding.
I agree the Knicks are terrible but the last two games our defense has been more sturdy from in absence of Willie and substitution of Skal.

He's no world beater (yet) but he's more active on challenging shots and he's in better position defensively.

Holding the opponent to 99 and 98 PPG the last two is an improvement over the 107 PPG we have allowed and that is partial credit to Skal.

If you look at where Skal was for the first half of the season, a complete non-entity, at least now there is something to build upon.

Importantly he is gaining confidence and the coach is gaining confidence in him.

As far as his rebounding that is a function of strength. He needs to add 15-20 pounds of muscle. His timing and hands are good.
 
You are way off on Skal and inexplicably bias against the Haitian Sensation but I could not agree with you more on Justin Jackson.

Its embarrassing that this guy was the #15 pick and so easily defers and plays the beta role, especially on a night when Donovan rolls into town and dominates.

Jackson is not even trying to establish himself as a formidable player. He would rather just get out of the way and not make too much fuss.

At least Willie is trying to expand his game though the results are C+ at best.

Then you have Vlade and Peja sitting over there smugly acting as if they did not make an egregious mistake.

I knew Donovan was an awesome player just like I know Miles Bridges and Ayton are incredible prospects who are going to take the NBA by storm in 2018-19.

If I would have had the chance to see Donovan in workouts and interview him I would have been double convinced. His slam dunks at the All-Star Break were even more ferocious and explosive than I thought him capable.

Even with future superstar De'Aaron there was a place on the team for Donovan.

There is always room on team for another star who creates gravity AND defensive havoc.

Peja and Vlade are pathetic for passing on Donovan for Justin Jackson.

Their only redemption is the potential of Harry Giles being realized or else dual pink slips should be immediately dispensed.

JaKarr Sampson is better than Justin Jackson.

The only reason Justin plays over JaKarr is because one was a mid first round pick and one was an undrafted two way player.

Justin gets the minutes over JaKarr not based on merit but to try to justify the assessment of the front office.

Why is Justin deferring to other teammates who aren't very good ??? Where is his confidence and moxie???

Grow some facial hair and prove you belong.

Justin Jackson is skinny and timid and average athletically. Pump some iron and listen to Metallica and Tony Robbins.

This is why I like Frank Mason despite his recent struggles. He has a warrior mentality. He is no slave to a woman. His true love is the pumpkin.
His struggles will not last. Wait and see.

I thought the defense last night was more sturdy in the absence of Willie with Skal doing his modest best. His timing is good and his intensity was what I like to see.

Willie is not a good defender. He's a formidable lob target. and rim runner. Besides that he's late to react and slow to rotate. He's a bit of joke with his laissez faire attitude and drunk-like lateral mobility.

His ineptitude has been masked by the larger ineptitude of Z-Bud. Just because Randolph is a woeful immobile defender does make Willie competent by contrast.

This is why we need to throw a MAX OFFER at Julius Randle and why I predict we will.

I think our front office is incompetent but no so much so that they will not recognize the obvious, that is, Randle is the exact type of player we need. A portion of the money we could potentially reserve to extend Willie will be FAR better spent on a true impact player.

The Lakers are ranked #11 in the NBA in defensive efficiency!!! Wow thats great! We are ranked #29 second to last behind the Suns.

One of the main reasons are defense is SO pathetic is because we get shredded in the pick and roll with Willie and/or Z-Bud and/or Skal trying to show and create a wall to prevent penetration. This is where Skal did a BETTER job than Willie (and Z-Bud) and where Randle is better than ANY of these guys.

Randle has quick feet and can show and rotate. He's twice the defender AND scorer than Willie.

This is why when it comes to the draft the notion of taking bean poles like Jaren Jackson and Michael Porter is laughable.

When the season started I asserted the strength of the team was the backcourt. That was before knowing how good Boggy would be and how bad George Hill would be. One player offsets another and the strength of the team remains.

To resolve the deficiency there is NO room for more bad defenders in free agency or draft. With Fox (a future 20+ PPG scorer if I ever saw one) and Boggy and Skal and Buddy, I am not worried about our offense.

In fact, one thing exciting for Kings fans to look forward is Giles (best pick setter on the team per Temple) setting a high pick for Fox for him and then generating action off this.

The high pick and roll is what the Jazz do with Donovan and Gobert and what the Thunder do with Westbrook and Adams. This is what we need with Fox once we have a versatile pick setter who can punish the opponent more ways than one.

We need a BIG who can set teeth-rattling picks and roll to the rim or pop and swish. This is NOT Wiillie. This may be Giles. This is DEFINITELY Randle. This could be Skal once he bulks up.

My main point s the core of this team is 5-6 players deep if I am generous not 8 deep as I have heard elsewhere:

- Frank
- Fox
- Boggy
- Skal
- Buddy
- Giles (?)

Who is genuinely confident with Willie and Jackson as building blocks? If players are not obviously part of the solution they are more likely part of the problem. Willie is in the bottom third of starting NBA centers and Jackson has only been a tick better than Malachi. To pretend otherwise is naive.
I'm not against the idea of Randle, but I'm worried about the logjam he'd create. More specifically, I think Skal and Giles would get the short end of the stick. If Randle comes here at the expense of Weed-bo, Koufos, and to a lesser extent WCS then fine. But I think we can tell that's not going to happen.
 
I'm not against the idea of Randle, but I'm worried about the logjam he'd create. More specifically, I think Skal and Giles would get the short end of the stick. If Randle comes here at the expense of Weed-bo, Koufos, and to a lesser extent WCS then fine. But I think we can tell that's not going to happen.
Randle isn’t coming to here 100% sure on that we have a better chance signing Paul George. He now has to be in the lakers future plans so they can match unless Randle gets an absurd contract. If he goes anywhere it will be Dallas where he is from and they have cap space and a hole at PF.
 
I LOL'd at this comment so freaking hard that I probably LOL'd my way out of LOL'ing for the rest of my life...
Sorry that you don’t know what you’re looking at. 15 years ago, Gobert would have been considered a journeyman center. Today, he’s considered good because of the dearth of true post playing bigs in the league and teams largely playing small lineups.

I LOL that you are unable to see that. It is what it is.
 
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Gobert is quite a bit better that "slightly above average". Friday when Utah played Minny He frustrated Towns enough so Towns gets two technical fouls and was ejected. IMO Gobert is the best rim protector/goalie in the NBA. One of the top centers in the NBA. Perhaps the best defensive center.
Slightly above average on the whole. Offense counts too. When he’s not switched onto much smaller players, he’s not much of an offensive threat. Defensively, he’s certainly good at what he does. But again, if you think he holds his own against Shaq, Duncan, Vlade, or any of the bigs from the last era when bigs mattered, you’re fooling yourself.

In today’s game, he’s a slightly better than average player on the whole. Utah’s hasn’t and won’t accomplish much with him as a centerpiece in today’s game. He’s just not skilled or dominate enough hence why I say slightly better than average. Good, but not close to great. Too many fans love to overstate.
 
Slightly above average on the whole. Offense counts too. When he’s not switched onto much smaller players, he’s not much of an offensive threat. Defensively, he’s certainly good at what he does. But again, if you think he holds his own against Shaq, Duncan, Vlade, or any of the bigs from the last era when bigs mattered, you’re fooling yourself.

In today’s game, he’s a slightly better than average player on the whole. Utah’s hasn’t and won’t accomplish much with him as a centerpiece in today’s game. He’s just not skilled or dominate enough hence why I say slightly better than average. Good, but not close to great. Too many fans love to overstate.
Clint Capela, Tristan Thompson, Zaza Pachulia, Aaron Baynes, and Jonas Valanciunas are all starting centers on the top teams in the league. You don't need an offensive force at the position to win these days.

Gobert's rim protection is as A+ as it gets. I don't think you realized how badly he owned the Kings the other night just by being in the paint. Most of the time the players chose not to even get near him. When they did, they got blocked or their shot changed so badly that almost none of them went in. You could count on about 3 fingers the amount of times the Kings scored when challenging Gobert the other night. If you can do that and score 13-14pts a game on 60% shooting, you aren't just slightly above average.
 
Sorry that you don’t know what you’re looking at. 15 years ago, Gobert would have been considered a journeyman center. Today, he’s considered good because of the dearth of true post playing bigs in the league and teams largely playing small lineups.

I LOL that you are unable to see that. It is what it is.
LOL
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
I agree the Knicks are terrible but the last two games our defense has been more sturdy from in absence of Willie and substitution of Skal.

He's no world beater (yet) but he's more active on challenging shots and he's in better position defensively.

Holding the opponent to 99 and 98 PPG the last two is an improvement over the 107 PPG we have allowed and that is partial credit to Skal.

If you look at where Skal was for the first half of the season, a complete non-entity, at least now there is something to build upon.

Importantly he is gaining confidence and the coach is gaining confidence in him.

As far as his rebounding that is a function of strength. He needs to add 15-20 pounds of muscle. His timing and hands are good.
We haven't exactly been playing the Warriors out there. The Jazz are a nice young team but their main offensive strategy is to get Don the ball and hope something good happens and the Knicks are, well, the Knicks and have absolutely no offensive pieces beyond a massively overpaid THJ without Zinger on the floor.