[Game] Kings v. Heat - Friday, 2/8 - 7PT/10ET

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Not much to add here to these 24 pages, except the crowd was the loudest its been over a sustained amount of time out of the games I've been to this year (~12). The defense chants down the stretch were Arco-esque level from back in the late 90s. Pretty fun to experience that again after all these years. Has me giddy and buying tickets left and right to enjoy the ride.
This makese so happy as an ARCO/90’s Kid! Thank you!!! Can’t wait to get out there this season.
 
I've come to realize that Willie might just simply be pacing himself. It might be athletically impossible to play breakneck for 30 minutes in his body. So maybe with Willie it's gonna be "what you see is what you get" and we have to learn to accept it and appreciate the six good minutes.

It's not like Vlade never took a play off back in the day...
You may be on to something there.

I do recall that WCS does have the sickle cell anemia trait and he had to pace himself while at Kentucky, because he would lose his breath every so often. He seems to have better stamina now than when he was a rookie, but he may need to pace himself, so he can catch his breath, when running at the break neck pace the Kings like to run.
 
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Jkbiker we were clamoring for him to get removed from the game because he was playing horrible basketball all the way until he started hitting shots at the end of the 3rd quarter. The shots he was taking before that were not good shots either. Contested 3s from beyond the arc, turnaround fadeaway jumpers near the charity stripe. If he wasn't shooting from distance, he was driving to the basket through heavy resistance and taking contested floaters or difficult layups. He was also making poor decisions and turning the ball over. He was not helping us in any way until he came to life at the end of the 3rd.

The stats you posted make it seem like he had a good game, but all of the positive stats came after 3 quarters. So yes, he played with energy and finished strong which helped us make a comeback, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he played like garbage for 75% of the night.

Also, I don't think I ever said he sucks. I did say I wanted him removed from the game. He's a good player, but he was playing like booty for most of the game.
 
Jkbiker we were clamoring for him to get removed from the game because he was playing horrible basketball all the way until he started hitting shots at the end of the 3rd quarter. The shots he was taking before that were not good shots either. Contested 3s from beyond the arc, turnaround fadeaway jumpers near the charity stripe. If he wasn't shooting from distance, he was driving to the basket through heavy resistance and taking contested floaters or difficult layups. He was also making poor decisions and turning the ball over. He was not helping us in any way until he came to life at the end of the 3rd.

The stats you posted make it seem like he had a good game, but all of the positive stats came after 3 quarters. So yes, he played with energy and finished strong which helped us make a comeback, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he played like garbage for 75% of the night.

Also, I don't think I ever said he sucks. I did say I wanted him removed from the game. He's a good player, but he was playing like booty for most of the game.
he had 2 turnovers, same as Bagley, Buddy and 2 less than Giles. either way, taking him out would have been the wrong move. Joerger didnt make that mistake.
 
Even if he only had 2 turnovers, his reckless play lead to some poor possessions. Couple times he dribbled the ball too much, drove to the paint and stopped when he saw no open lane, and would then look to pass the ball back outside while smothered. Took time off the shot clock leading to hurried play.

Joerger could have taken him out and given some more minutes to Burks who was playing well. 34 minutes is the most Bog has played in a while.

Obviously we're not going to agree on this which is fine. This is a discussion board after all so no biggie.
 
Is he worth the max? He's playing at near Klay Thompson level on offense, but his defense isn't Klay Thompson level by any stretch.

Whether he is or not, we absolutely must keep Buddy in Sacramento.
I like his defense. The only hole I see in Buddy's game is getting to the free throw line. I would like to see him get to the line 4-5 times per game which he has the last few games. There's no reason he cannot use his shooting ability to bait more defenders to foul him or set up his drive game. When he does this his scoring efficiency (61% TS%) will be sustained or even improved upon. I think Barnes and Buddy can learn from each other "Learn" is probably not the best word, let's say "inspired by" since they know what they need to do. Barnes does a good job getting to the line. Buddy does a great job moving without the ball. They need to compare notes and be guided by these notes to maximize their respective potential.
 
You may be on to something there.

I do recall that WCS does have the sickle cell anemia trait and he had to pace himself while at Kentucky, because he would lose his breath every so often. He seems to have better stamina now than when he was a rookie, but he may need to pace himself, so he can catch his breath, when running at the break neck pace the Kings like to run.
If he has a legitimate health issue, which he has claimed to be a non-issue, that is yet another reason (reason #29495921) not to retain him beyond this year.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
I think Willie and fox had their minds made up for a long lasting potty party for their departed friends. Once they saw everybody else on the team had moved past it and the new guys are pretty damn good they got over it. Just took 3 quarters to do so. I suspect after 6-7 games and the all star break things will flow smooth again and start picking up steam
 
If he has a legitimate health issue, which he has claimed to be a non-issue, that is yet another reason (reason #29495921) not to retain him beyond this year.
I don't think his health issues would mean we don't try to retain Willie, but it may put a cap on how high the team is willing to re-sign him for. He has already proven he can be a capable starting center in the league.

I would try to re-sign WCS to a starter level contract (ie. 14-16 million a year). If some team goes over the top with a $20+ million a year offer, we would be less likely to match, because you know he would top out at about 30 min/game player.

Ideally, if we can re-sign WCS to around a $14 million/year contract (which is reasonable), WCS would ideally slot into the 3rd big in the rotation, once Bagley and Giles fills out.
 
Maybe a max is a little bit of an overpay for Buddy but I don't think so. He's the kind of guy you will KILL yourself for if you let him get away. I would pay him however much it takes... maybe he's a good guy and doesn't want to eat all the cap so we get a break.
 
I can't say I agree. I'm not sure why a high scoring team, ladden with shooters, would want to defer to any one player. Are we talking about plays drawn up out of timeouts in short clock situations? It confuses me because the whole point of having so many capable scorers is that any one player can burn the defense, especially if they have an open look. I wouldn't be Keen on bogging down the offense so we can throw it to Barnes and let him go through his ISO moves package.

I'm not saying Barnes is the new Kobe and I have to tell you, the offense bogs down quite a bit during the game already. Bogdanovic is often times the bail out guy and a lot of the disdain headed his way lately is because of that. If you watch the Kings offense many times throughout the game, especially late in the clock, the Kings are typically in a position to where one player, possibly the last who has the ball is forced to make a play. This is an issue with not running pick and roll or easy reset plays early in the clock and instead running off ball screens that take more time to develop and then running a pick and roll with 6-8 seconds on the clock. Often times you'll see someone like Bogdan or Fox pull the ball back out passed the 3 point line and prepare to make a one on one move. At the moment I think Barnes has more abilities as a slasher than Bogdanovic and obviously more shooting ability than Fox. My point is, setting up Barnes to make a play would take a lot of pressure of those other guys who teams already know on the scouting report are the main shot creators for the Kings.
 
he had 2 turnovers, same as Bagley, Buddy and 2 less than Giles. either way, taking him out would have been the wrong move. Joerger didnt make that mistake.
Nah. He was playing like garbage and hurting the team. Taking step back 3s early in clock and driving into heavy traffic without passing is the same as a turnover. That's just an honest assessment of 3 quarters of his play. We're not questioning his personal character. As a matter of fact, we expect more and better decisions out of him because we know what he's capable of.
 
I liked that play where Barnes had the ball at the high post and looked wide eyed at Harry and nodded his head like "get your butt down in the post and take advantage of the smaller defender". Harry did just so and earned an easy trip to the line.
 
I'm just curious what everyone who got upset with this video wanted Willie to do here? There was about 1 second on the game clock when the shot went up. Sure, he could've run towards the basket to go after the rebound, but there wasn't going to be a rebound (the half was over). There were plenty of things to criticize about Willie's play in this game, but this play wasn't one of them.
Please don't add context. I am outraged gosh dammit! He even untucked his shirt before he got to the locker room. If Willie would put the same effort he did preparing to leave for the half in the rest of his game, the Kings would be a 4th seed right now!
 
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It is a little thing that has stuck in my craw but Willie doesn't acknowledge the sweet passes he gets. Bogi or Fox will drop a perfect pass into his bread basket and you would think he is doing them a favor. Is it so hard to show a little love? It is called camaraderie. Owen Benjamin has this skit where he talks about allowing a motorist into his lane in a traffic jam and he doesn't get the "wave", a show off appreciation on the road. Aghast at the lack of basic humanity Owen stalks the guy for 100 miles to let him know about it. This is comedy not reality in case anyone had any doubts. Anyway the I-appreciate-you gesture is good for your karma and collective spirit. The lack thereof reflects upon the diva complex and the sense of entitlement with Willie. I know it sounds like I am nitpicking but this is a real thing! Bagley will give a nice pass gesture to a teammate even when the pass was not instrumental. Same with HG. Do you know why in theory we will sorely miss a guy like Shump to provide that energy and chemistry instrumental to our success? It is partly because the guy on the roster you would normally look to, the 5 year vet, the "anchor of your defense", is incapable of providing that intangible ingredient. It is irony that the guy hardest hit by these trades is the guy under normal circumstances would be rallying force to mitigate their departure. In other words if WIllie was a stronger personality and more capable leader on and off the court, losing Shump would hardly register in the collective psyche.
Willie in post game interviews is always propping up his "dogs." Say what you will about Willie, but being a bad teammate is not one of his faults.

Also just rewatched the 4th and Willie was slapping low fives after he was fed by Bogie and throughout their 17-2 beatdown of the Heat.
 
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Did you see the instant replay where Fox was driving to the hoop and was clearly hammer at arm and cause to ball to go out of bound? That was BS refereeing. They call it turnover lol. Stupid ref. I have no doubt referees are making guessing calls on these type of plays because human eyes cannot, i repeat CANNOT see it fast it enough where they can discern if arm or hand are being hit or not. It's just too fast for human eyes to see when players are stripping the ball. So, they had to make a decision based on the physic of the ball, where the ball bounce off of for example...and then they guess. If you're a superstar, they tend to call in favor of them whether they're correct or not, which again bogus. Superstar treatment is bogus.
 
Was hosting a party last night and had the game on until the guests started arriving. Didn't seem like I'd be missing much, then I go out for a late night snack and see we won. Which is crazy. Once these guys get a few games and practices under their belts I think we'll see a lot more consistency.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I want him gone and I want him gone now. I'm absolutely done with this clown and I'm also done hiding my feelings from any Willie apologists still hanging around here. This dude does not belong on our team and personally I don't think he'll be in the league in a few years. Better men will overtake him and there are plenty. This is absolutely pathetic, but I'm not surprised. Totally classless. Goodbye. And yes, I'll tolerate him for now and if he wants to help us make a run, fine. But I'm totally done with this low IQ clown. Ship him out... except probably nobody wants him. This joker claims he wants a big contract. Suck it Willie. Just go suck it. Retire. Now. you could have gone after that board/put back/anything. I want him GONE GONE GONE. I'M 100% DONE.

I will be harassing, insulting, making fun of, ridiculing, humiliating, and explaining why Willie Cauley-Stein belongs nowhere near our team going forward. I'm not making any more excuses for him or explaining away all of his super negative, demoralizing comments. And any Willie supporters I will be fully arguing against from here on out. I've seen, and heard, enough. This is NOT a person you go to battle with.

He's living in the clouds if he thinks he can get near 20M next year. If he can, by all means, enjoy. We sure as hell won't be be paying that. He's literally the 7th on the depth chart (Fox, Bagley, Buddy, Barnes, Bogi, Giles... THEN Willie) lol. 20M my ass. That's MY MONEY you fool. GTFO. Good RIDDANCE.

I don't care about any "stats" I don't care about anything other than what my eyes tell me. Good. BYE.
Mr. Hammer, I like you, but I'm tired of your crap on this subject. Do I think Willie is god's gift to basketball? No, but I also don't think he's nearly as bad as you make him out to be. He did block three shots in the last 6 minutes of the game, and he did pull down two critical tough rebounds in the last 3 minutes of the game. I'm not sure we win the game without that. No he's not perfect, but right now, at this moment in time, we have no legit sized player to replace him, and yeah, I'm saying Giles isn't ready for that and neither is Bagley. So until we do have someone to replace him, I'm fine with him.

In the meantime, why don't you just enjoy the idea that we're where we are right now, ahead of schedule and for the most part, fun to watch. Try that instead of looking for any dam thing you can find to criticize Willie over. And no, I'm not apologizing for him. He doesn't need apologizing for. He is what he is, and at years end, if he expects to get paid for more than what he is, then goodbye Willie. As to that video, the shot clock expired almost immediately after the ball hit the rim. There was no way on god's earth that anyone was going to rebound the ball and put it back in.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I think so but I don't know where or if Bjelica fits in. I think Barnes is going to take his minutes. Barnes stays in front of his man on the perimeter. Bjelica not so much. Barnes is more switchable and probably rebounds as well. Barnes is also a methodical somewhat mechanical player. So you need more dynamic players on the floor with him. That's Boggy not Bjelica. So this team has a lot to sort out and not a lot of time to do it.
Bjelica does not fit in. I doubt he's in the long term plans, and I would bet his minutes get reduced considerably from here on out.
 
If Whiteside is opting out of his contract next year (which I don't think he will), Kings should pursue him instead of signing low IQ player like Willie. As I said before, the ONLY reason Willie get to start is because Kings ain't got player with length that can rebound beside Bagley. When Bagley bulk up and be stronger, i would favor him over Willie any day.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
If Whiteside is opting out of his contract next year (which I don't think he will), Kings should pursue him instead of signing low IQ player like Willie. As I said before, the ONLY reason Willie get to start is because Kings ain't got player with length that can rebound beside Bagley. When Bagley bulk up and be stronger, i would favor him over Willie any day.
If you think Willie is low IQ, what in the world are you doing trying to sign actually diagnosed with a learning disability and cut from the Kings the first time around because he was low IQ Whiteside?
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
The Kings player who was most efficient offensively in last night's game was Alec Burks. Four of five from the field, add a free throw for a total of 9 points, 4 rebounds and one assist. Not bad for just getting off the plane and getting 15 minutes of play against one of the better defensive teams in the league. Burks is going to help this team get to the playoffs.
 
I think Whiteside salary is quite a bit of money like 24m this year and 27 next year. He might look like a all star last night but we need something better for the money and his contract is a great reminder to not over pay.
 
Nah. He was playing like garbage and hurting the team. Taking step back 3s early in clock and driving into heavy traffic without passing is the same as a turnover. That's just an honest assessment of 3 quarters of his play. We're not questioning his personal character. As a matter of fact, we expect more and better decisions out of him because we know what he's capable of.
Bogdan took his 3s with 20 seconds, 1.3 seconds, 20 seconds, 1 second, 14 seconds, and 1 second left on the clock.

Here is a description of Bogdan's 3s.

1st quarter
02:30 - Fox in transition passes to Bogdan in the corner with 20 seconds left on the shot clock. Wide open corner 3. Missed.

00:01.3 - End of quarter end of shot clock 1.3 seconds left when he takes the step back 3. Missed.

2nd quarter.

10:06. Gets the ball in transition early in the shot clock. Defender flying at him, pumps fakes as defender goes by, takes one dribble, steps back for an open 3. Missed with 20 seconds left on the shot clock.

1:48. Gets the ball with 10 seconds on the clock. Waves off Bagley's pick attempt. Isoed. Takes a long step back 3 with 1 second left on the shot clock. Misses.

1:03. 14 seconds on the shotclock. Open 3 after pump fake. Made.

3rd: 05.08. Gets the ball with 3 seconds on the shot clock. pump fakes and side steps to get open. shoots with 1 second left on the shot clock. Made.
 
Mr. Hammer, I like you, but I'm tired of your crap on this subject. Do I think Willie is god's gift to basketball? No, but I also don't think he's nearly as bad as you make him out to be. He did block three shots in the last 6 minutes of the game, and he did pull down two critical tough rebounds in the last 3 minutes of the game. I'm not sure we win the game without that. No he's not perfect, but right now, at this moment in time, we have no legit sized player to replace him, and yeah, I'm saying Giles isn't ready for that and neither is Bagley. So until we do have someone to replace him, I'm fine with him.

In the meantime, why don't you just enjoy the idea that we're where we are right now, ahead of schedule and for the most part, fun to watch. Try that instead of looking for any dam thing you can find to criticize Willie over. And no, I'm not apologizing for him. He doesn't need apologizing for. He is what he is, and at years end, if he expects to get paid for more than what he is, then goodbye Willie. As to that video, the shot clock expired almost immediately after the ball hit the rim. There was no way on god's earth that anyone was going to rebound the ball and put it back in.
I'll simply rebut with this: I cannot possibly conceive of any player from the Golden Era giving up on a play like that and if they had I'd have been livid. It's 100% unacceptable behavior. I'm willing to grant Willie the benefit of the doubt that he's verbally clumsy. When a player gives up on a play like that I want him gone.

By the way, I'm very much enjoying the idea that we are ahead of schedule and fun to watch. I'm just done with Willie. I'm tolerating him until Giles is ready and that will be by the start of next season. I'd be shocked if Willie still with the team then.
 
I can understand WCS being emotional. I'm not even on the team, ie I did not "form a brotherhood" with Shumpert and I still feel bad about that trade. Hopefully that will pass. As it stands right now WCS is our best center. Bagley and Giles will flash, but they are still learning. We just need him to get over this trade and regain that feeling...
 
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