[Game] Kings @ Timberwolves - Sunday, Feb. 11 - 4 PT

[KingsFanSince85]

Yeah, I think we get that. You really don't need to repeat it with every post, honest. Especially tonight, when Fox pretty much did exactly what most of us have been wanting to see. Was his night perfect? Nope, but it was definitely a sign of his potential and talent. Care to explain what he did TONIGHT that disappointed you?

I guess I didn't know the M.O.

It must absolutely suck to root for a team whose future star is a player you don't like (for what reasons I can't fathom). I'm glad I'm not one of those fans.

FWIW, FOX is gonna be an absolute beast, as many of us believed. It's gonna be fun to watch him continue to develop.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I just realized that the HAWKS won tonight which puts the Kings in last place again. So it was a great night. The team played hard and played well against a good team on the road and still fortified their draft position.

 

[Suicide King]

What? No WCS Praise tonite?
Man, he looked really, really, bad tonite. Forget about the numbers. This dude had so many mind numbing stupid plays most of the game. If he just plays decent, Kings probably would have won the game.
Team needs a Real Big man. In the worst way. If it wasn’t for Koufas, team would get destroyed every night in the front court.

I can only speak for myself, but I missed this game sadly due to work. I am sure everyone is satisfied though with your always unbiased, even keeled expert observations on things.

 

[VF21]

Not sure if it's just me but the twitter posts come out looking weird since the board update (top line):

View attachment 7305

It's something to do with the coding for bolding. I'll bring it to Jeremy's attention.

 

[eMBarkat10n]

...sigh... Watching Z-Bo is like watching molasses go uphill in the middle of winter.

I think molasses might move slightly faster, though. Just. Slightly.

 

[VF21]

Carmichael Dave
‏Verified account @carmichaeldave
1h1 hour ago

Proud of the kids. I’m not even hiding it, I don’t care if we win 3 games the rest of the year. Everyone is going to be tanking so hard, we HAVE to get a top 4 pick. Even that’s not a guarantee, but we need all the odds we can get

 

[Kingster]

Weird thing update:

Just got a call from a neighbor down the road a bit. She was nearly hysterical. Said she saw a GIGANTIC BEAR walk past her house. Wanted to know what to do. I told her to stay inside until he was gone. I love flatlanders. (She's only lived up here about a month.)

You should tell her to feed it some steak to appease it!

 

[eMBarkat10n]

I was unable to watch the beginning of the game. I did, however, catch the final handful of minutes (about maybe 6ish minutes of actual game time). I will watch the rest of the game in the near future, as time permits. What I saw in those final minutes, however, managed to put a smile on my face. We were still in the game against a VERY good Timberwolves team. That should tell a Kings fan everything they need to know about this young, but steadily upcoming, team. We're not going to go down easy. We're going to fight every night we step on a professional basketball court. Whether that court is our own, inside of the G1C, or not our own, in another team's arena. This team, although at times super frustrating to watch, is extremely exciting to watch. I love watching the young kids play. They're slowly erasing that title of "young kids". We might have to start calling them "men" soon. Not "young men". Just "men".

I will add additional thoughts as it relates to other aspects of the game after I watch it (hopefully sooner than later).

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Carmichael Dave
‏Verified account @carmichaeldave
1h1 hour ago

Proud of the kids. I’m not even hiding it, I don’t care if we win 3 games the rest of the year. Everyone is going to be tanking so hard, we HAVE to get a top 4 pick. Even that’s not a guarantee, but we need all the odds we can get

My feeling exactly.

I'm not for purposely trying to lose. I don't think that's ever a good thing at all. But I'm ok with our kids learning the ropes and playing their tails off but coming up short while TRYING to win.

And at the end of the season, you can give some run to the likes of Jack Cooley, JaKarr Sampson, and Bruno Caboclo to see what they might have in the tank, while likely still losing and still playing to win

 

[King Baller]

The Kings played really well tonight. Bogie defended Butler well and Willie defended KAT well. Butler and KAT are All Star level players playing for a good team headed to the Playoffs. The Kings were right there at the end.

 

[sactowndog]

Yeah, I think we get that. You really don't need to repeat it with every post, honest. Especially tonight, when Fox pretty much did exactly what most of us have been wanting to see. Was his night perfect? Nope, but it was definitely a sign of his potential and talent. Care to explain what he did TONIGHT that disappointed you?

So I will directly stand up for him because his response his typically European and you choose to split out my indirect comment so here is my direct one....

Fox had a great game .... for a two guard. With 2 assists and 5 turnovers he had a horrible game for a point guard. Luckily for Fox, Bogdan took over that role for him and the team as a whole played well. This included Fox who could seemingly score at will.

He’s right unless Fox learns to really lead a team and set up other players he has no business playing the point. It’s a European thing to call it how it is and his assessment is dead on accurate. Luckily for the Kings, they aren’t Portland and have a guard that looks to set up teammates. He needs to run the offense more in the half court.

 

[KingsSelecao]

Man, I thought I was critical. Fox is doing great. For 19 years of age. The Kid plays with great maturity. Getting more assists and cutting down on the turnovers will come with time. Let's wait a couple more years, before making a blanket statement. Fox will end up being the best point guard to ever put on a Kings uni. Fox is really the only player on this roster with true All Star potential. That alone makes me excited.

 

[sactowndog]

The Kings played really well tonight. Bogie defended Butler well and Willie defended KAT well. Butler and KAT are All Star level players playing for a good team headed to the Playoffs. The Kings were right there at the end.

I think you left out someone whose D seems to be getting better and better and that’s Jackson. He did a good job of moving his feet and cutting of dribble penetration. He takes really good angles to cut off the drive.

I have been one who said Vlade messed up taking Jackson over OG but I’m starting to wonder if Vlade was right.

 

[sactowndog]

Man, I thought I was critical. Fox is doing great. For 19 years of age. The Kid plays with great maturity. Getting more assists and cutting down on the turnovers will come with time. Let's wait a couple more years, before making a blanket statement. Fox will end up being the best point guard to ever put on a Kings uni. Fox is really the only player on this roster with true All Star potential. That alone makes me excited.

How is saying Fox might be better playing the 2 critical? I didn’t say I wasn’t excited about his play either. Saying he could score at will is hardly an indictment.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Fox had a great game .... for a two guard. With 2 assists and 5 turnovers he had a horrible game for a point guard.

Disagree. First, did you not notice how many open shots were missed after passes from FOX? If those shots go in, he's got 7-8 assists yet played no better or worse. It's all a matter of perspective.

Secondly, FOX is a scoring point guard. He's not the Rajon Rondo type. And like many scoring point guards, the numbers are going to look more like SG numbers. Nobody says Steph Curry has awful games as a PG when he only averages 6 assists. And, with that last comment, I'm in no way saying FOX is comparable to Curry in terms of impact or ability -- just that they are both 'scoring' point guards.

 

[NewArena]

looked like a fun game! FOX is going to be a nightmare for opposing teams on a consistent basis
for years to come. holy moly

 

[pshn80]

How is saying Fox might be better playing the 2 critical? I didn’t say I wasn’t excited about his play either. Saying he could score at will is hardly an indictment.

.

At 6-3 Fox does not have a future as a SG. Let’ struggle along with nim at PG. All our guys are getting better ncluding the vets. Let’s go with our team as it is and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[sactowndog]

Disagree. First, did you not notice how many open shots were missed after passes from FOX? If those shots go in, he's got 7-8 assists yet played no better or worse. It's all a matter of perspective.

Secondly, FOX is a scoring point guard. He's not the Rajon Rondo type. And like many scoring point guards, the numbers are going to look more like SG numbers. Nobody says Steph Curry has awful games as a PG when he only averages 6 assists. And, with that last comment, I'm in no way saying FOX is comparable to Curry in terms of impact or ability -- just that they are both 'scoring' point guards.

Curry averages 6.5. Fox averages 4.3. Now yes Fox will get better but why force it when you have a running mate where that is his game. Watch the interviews. Fox talks about himself (which is what a scoring guard should do). Bogdan talks about the team.

I just don’t get when you have when guy whose clearly a dog and another is clearly a cat you make them switch roles because thats what they should be.... Let them be what most naturally suits them.

 

[sactowndog]

.

At 6-3 Fox does not have a future as a SG. Let’ struggle along with nim at PG. All our guys are getting better ncluding the vets. Let’s go with our team as it is and let the chips fall where they may.

I agree defensively but the taller guards have to guard Bogdan or he will post them up. And whose saying not going with our team as is? I’m just saying when they are both on the floor the team is better with Bogdan as the primary ball handler in the front court.

 

[Suicide King]

Curry averages 6.5. Fox averages 4.3. Now yes Fox will get better but why force it when you have a running mate where that is his game. Watch the interviews. Fox talks about himself (which is what a scoring guard should do). Bogdan talks about the team.

I just don’t get when you have when guy whose clearly a dog and another is clearly a cat you make them switch roles because thats what they should be.... Let them be what most naturally suits them.

I really like this analogy. I would only point out that "in the beginning" of this season, Fox was criticized for not being aggressive enough, not looking for his shot. Now he is being pegged to a degree as a chucker and selfish. ( By some not you specifically.)

I guarantee the truth lies in the middle. That Fox is going through the ups and downs of a tumultuous rookie season on the Kings roster. Doing exactly what is asked of him, which has entailed , most likely, a switch to being more aggressive and looking for his shot where as before he would defer ( sadly most often to Z-bo, but I digress) .

Fox has convinced me that he is in the game, but not OF the game ( Simpsons reference). He is, for the time being, doing exactly what he is asked to do. Including deferring to Z-bo early on, and now, looking for his own. I am very confident he will strike a balance, sometimes on a moment to moment basis, and do what needs done in that moment. This takes high intelligence, humility and bravado ( all in varying degrees and at different times). Fox is going to be hounded ( Disney reference ) for some time until he has established himself and we can point and say, this is what Fox is as a player in the league. Too early to say anything like that with any confidence. His rookie season has consisted of early calls for more aggression, and now recent calls for acknowledgment that he might even be better suited as a 2 in the half-court.

Rebuilds are rough on us fans and our draft picks become sacred to us, or a point of contention. Or both. I can not get behind any viewpoints that Fox is not at the very least, exciting as hell when you watch him play.

I swear this is almost always on my mind with regards to Fox:

 

[jcassio]

Want to see Bruno and Jackson get all the SF mins from here on out

What about Mr. Sampson? Where’s the love for Mr. Sampson?

 

[jcassio]

WCS needs to do better against KAT

WCS is owned by KAT. Let’s hope Willie gets over it before next season.

 

[jcassio]

...sigh... Watching Z-Bo is like watching molasses go uphill in the middle of winter.

Can Joerger not see that Z-bo is about as slow as you can get and still be in motion? And about as bad as you can get defensively without being named Rondo? Or wait, he does get his defensive rebounds, doesn’t he? I guess that just makes him a really bad defender.

 

[jcassio]

Weird thing update:

Just got a call from a neighbor down the road a bit. She was nearly hysterical. Said she saw a GIGANTIC BEAR walk past her house. Wanted to know what to do. I told her to stay inside until he was gone. I love flatlanders. (She's only lived up here about a month.)

When I lived in the mountains, we called the people who lived in the hills flatlanders. Good times.

 

[jcassio]

Don't worry... When Shumpert gets the go ahead after the ASB. Another Shooting Guard. Where is this guy going to get minutes? I knoe he's known for his D, But if he's going to eat minutes from Hield and Bogdan?

Send him to Reno until he agrees to a buyout that we like.
If we were back in the Cousins days, I’d welcome him aboard.

 

[jcassio]

How is saying Fox might be better playing the 2 critical? I didn’t say I wasn’t excited about his play either. Saying he could score at will is hardly an indictment.

You essentially said that Fox is a “horrible” PG.

 

[JCTNKINGFAN]

What? No WCS Praise tonite?
Man, he looked really, really, bad tonite. Forget about the numbers. This dude had so many mind numbing stupid plays most of the game. If he just plays decent, Kings probably would have won the game.
Team needs a Real Big man. In the worst way. If it wasn’t for Koufas, team would get destroyed every night in the front court.

Dude, your OHD is on display again, not a good look.

 

[ESP47]

One common pattern you see in the Kings' offense is that on pick and rolls the opposing team drops off Zach's man into the paint to "wall off" Fox from penetrating into the paint. Fox then goes around the Zach's screen, who in turn finds himself at the three point line; Fox then stops his dribble and throws an overhead pass to Zach, who usually shoots it (In the last game you could see that Joerger had a talk with Zach about not shooting it as much even when he is open at the 3 point line). Opposing teams obviously see the pattern and don't mind Fox throwing the ball to Zach at the 3 point line as opposed to Fox penetrating to the basket. Also, teams are now very aware of this pattern and are ready for it, making it that much harder for Fox to get Zach the ball and easier to anticipate Zach is going to get the ball and shoot the three.

To me, there has to be more variety in the offense, one way or the other. One way would be for Fox to just blow by the Zach screen and instead of stopping when he saw Zach's man dropping off into the paint, he should blow by him; a little hesitation, mini-crossover, or something to freeze the big guy would be in order, then just go in for the layup or a drop-off pass. I think eventually Fox is going to do exactly that; he might as well start now, even though the outcome might not be great initially because it's not his comfort zone. The other way would be to not "go to the trough" repeatedly with this Zach/Fox pick and roll. The ball just hasn't been moving from side to side lately. Even Bogs is guilty of over-dribbling lately, keeping the ball on one side of the floor. The ball needs to be moved from side to side for everybody to have more space to operate and making the offense much less predictable.

Spot on. This is something I've been noticing all year long. It's a pointless offensive set that does zero to get our star prospect any development. They actually went to it a bit less this game than they have been doing and sure enough, Fox explodes in the first quarter.

On a side note, JaKarr was really fun to watch tonight. He really sticks out on a team with limited athleticism. Loved his block on Gibson and his help defense in the paint.

 

[ppine]

A very intersting game to watch. It felt to me like we were looking into the future a little. The Kings guards are playing like they know what they are doing. Jackson has improved a lot and belongs out there. On a night like this against the Twolves and Townes, the weaknesses of the Kings' big men are on full display. We had no answer for KAT. Willie is not that good a defender against the best in the league. He threw the ball away 3 times in one quarter. He plays out of control on offense way too much. The closest thing to an answer for KAT was Kufous. I know some people will disagree loudly.

Going forward, there is some hope for Giles to contribute if he can stay healthy. If I am the Kings' FO I am looking for a big man that can play defense and rebound, with some offensive potential. That is what we thought we were getting in Willie. He has improved plenty, but is not there yet.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Curry averages 6.5. Fox averages 4.3.

Curry also averages 33 mpg to Fox’s 27 mpg. You gotta consider that too.

There are plenty of PG’s in the league that are like FOX in that they are score first players. Nothing wrong with it. It certainly can work.