....ONLY 12 wins.
[Game] Kings @ Timberwolves 1/30/2023 5pm Pacific 8pm Eastern
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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....ONLY 12 wins.
Lyles has been heavily responsible for several wins.
Ozymandias
All-Star
I disagree. Handle what you can control first. What your doing is trying to justify being tilted. Thats not conducive to winning in a competitve team environment. In fact its easy to get tilted, its called being hyper-sensitive, doesnt mean its justified.
THE KINGS DONT HAVE A BUNCH OF HOTHEADS ON THIS TEAM... Have you had a look around?! Teams want players who fight thru adversity not ones who point blame elsewhere.. It's a matter psychological profiling...
Its not like somethings gonna change either...complaining about the refs is like trying to squeeze blood from a stone... did you see the refs statement after the lebron incident the other day. The refs have no sympathy for the serial complainers and it's simply not going to change... What do you want to happen, fire these refs and bring in the ones from college?
We should hire the ones from the Chinese Basketball Association instead? Your hands are tied. The kings neck is in a noose. The lion is caged.You ref complainers would completely change your tune in a week or 2 if they brought the college or chinese basketball association refs in to "do a better job"... You'd be begging for these refs back..
"If your not cheating your not trying" Ever heard that one? NBA players from a young age are taught how to use their bodies to obscure the refs view of the ball so they can get away with a little extra. Thats how the game is played.
All that being said I dont watch the NFL because of the refs..
BUT this isnt football where they run up and down the field just a few times n so bad calls are really amplified. The ref whiners around here need to be reminded of this, I'd bet my account here that the cross section of fans here who watches NBA and NFL games complains much more about the calls than the section of the fans here that just watched basketball..
NBA players run miles during games.. If we cant impose our will in 105 possessions per game, we're not good enough, u can never convince me otherwise, thats plenty of opportunity, the few plays who are affected by the refs, well thats just the cost of doing business.
It's called HUMAN ERROR... which is everywhere.. its like crying over spilled milk..
Jayson Tatum gets hacked ALL THE TIME n there's no calls... n then he hacks lebron at the end of that game and there's a no call.
THERE"S PEOPLE MAKING CLAIMS LIKE THE REFS ARE SCREWING US, WHEN ITS LITERALLY A WIDE OPEN SHOT BY A COMPETENT 3pt shooter, in a 3pt game 14seconds left in regulation... there's no better example of how ridiculous behavior is than that... We're literally disregarding context here to see what we're hoping to see...
I'm reminded of a great line from Darren Arnofsky's Pi (1998)
"When your mind becomes obsessed with anything you filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere." - Sol Robertson
When we start claiming the refs are taking away baskets on completely blown defensive assignments --- I cant help but think --- if thats true, why are we even talking aobut the game, lets just talk about the refs. I believe the refs are not paramount, the players are. I dont believe in some grand conspiracy either, clearly these are the results of chaos.
Do people need to be reminded that lifes not fair?
We're not being oppressed here. Too many around here are acting like it. These players make ~$500,000 a game, part of that is to help decide games that are IMPOSSIBLE to ref perfectly.
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I've been done with Metu for a while. I yell at the TV every time he flashes out to the 3 point line while one of his teammates rip a pass to him because he's wide open. There's a reason why he's wide open. Might as well just hand the other team the ball and go play defense.
Would much rather see Holmes out there, good or bad. He's the superior player and does everything better than Metu other than maybe catch an extra couple lobs per season. If Brown doesn't want to play Holmes, then go with Lyles like you said.
Ozymandias
All-Star
I'm just actually gonna start putting everyone on ignore who complains about the refs. Thats how little i think of this topic of conversation.
My ignore list will consist of people who compared Keegan Murray to Elton Brand (because he uses a dropstep), people who wanted to trade Fox for a bag of peanuts, and the refwatchers.
with all the overmoderation that goes on around here... the true ultimate overmoderration thing that'd be beautiful would be to make a forum section called
"ref talk" n then you guys moved all the refcomplaints in there hahahahha oh that would be GLORIOUS, trap these fools in their own echo chamber, they'll wake up.. Thats how I feel about the topic.. stop spamming me with this nonsense.. I wanna read about basketball here, not basketball refs, if the only way I cna do that is ignore the ref watchers, so be it.
When I saw someone say "the refs have now taken 4 baskets away from us" on literally a wide open 3 blown defensive assignment in A 3point game 14 seconds to go.. That was it for me.. I've had enough.. Call me a jerk, but at least call me a jerk who was here to talk about BASKETBALL, not the refs... The refs arent the stars of the show guys.. We have a great team here the refs are getting way too much PUBLICITY around here, your distracted.
I'm with the refs... totally.. I used to ref too.. these people complaining about the refs probably dont have thick enough skin to deal with even high school games/crowds. Them saying the lebron no call will cause them "many sleepless nights" is HILARIOUS to me.
My ignore list will consist of people who compared Keegan Murray to Elton Brand (because he uses a dropstep), people who wanted to trade Fox for a bag of peanuts, and the refwatchers.
with all the overmoderation that goes on around here... the true ultimate overmoderration thing that'd be beautiful would be to make a forum section called
"ref talk" n then you guys moved all the refcomplaints in there hahahahha oh that would be GLORIOUS, trap these fools in their own echo chamber, they'll wake up.. Thats how I feel about the topic.. stop spamming me with this nonsense.. I wanna read about basketball here, not basketball refs, if the only way I cna do that is ignore the ref watchers, so be it.
When I saw someone say "the refs have now taken 4 baskets away from us" on literally a wide open 3 blown defensive assignment in A 3point game 14 seconds to go.. That was it for me.. I've had enough.. Call me a jerk, but at least call me a jerk who was here to talk about BASKETBALL, not the refs... The refs arent the stars of the show guys.. We have a great team here the refs are getting way too much PUBLICITY around here, your distracted.
I'm with the refs... totally.. I used to ref too.. these people complaining about the refs probably dont have thick enough skin to deal with even high school games/crowds. Them saying the lebron no call will cause them "many sleepless nights" is HILARIOUS to me.
sactowndog
All-Star
Haha well those of us who missed that point now didn’t ;-). Not sure why this wasn’t a pm.. haha
Yeah, I think the only thing with Holmes is we've been trying to keep him healthy to ship him somewhere before the deadline. If he's still here after and we didn't go get another back-up C, absolutely would rather have him over Metu.
Some of us knew.
Go to the Where Do We Finish thread.
Go to page 5. See the second post (#125) that was posted on October 18th.
I stated we would finish 4th, so yeah . . .I must be crazy OR some of us knew.
I think it's possible they're doing that as well but I don't think it's worth potentially costing the team a game or two over the course of a season. Especially with the amount of close games they're involved in. Would make sense if Holmes was going to bring back a big haul but at this point is value is extremely low so I don't see the need to go all in on protecting him.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Me too.
And Bagley was heavily responsible for several losses.
The loss of thousands of fans, perhaps the most important losses of all.
Taking a peak at the standings today, and holy moly was that a big win.
We currently have a 2 game lead over 4th place LAC.
After that though? Only 2 games separate the 5th seed Warriors and the 12th seed Blazers. The Lakers are starting to fall back a bit as they're 1.5 game behind the Blazers/Thunder, but still only 3.5 back on the 5th seed Warriors lol.
I really think it's going to come down to who best avoids an 0-4 type stretch at the end of the season. Basically just need to keep playing around .500 ball and we have a good shot to remain a 3-6 seed.
We currently have a 2 game lead over 4th place LAC.
After that though? Only 2 games separate the 5th seed Warriors and the 12th seed Blazers. The Lakers are starting to fall back a bit as they're 1.5 game behind the Blazers/Thunder, but still only 3.5 back on the 5th seed Warriors lol.
I really think it's going to come down to who best avoids an 0-4 type stretch at the end of the season. Basically just need to keep playing around .500 ball and we have a good shot to remain a 3-6 seed.
Padrino
All-Star
Interestingly, the Kings are 2 games ahead of the Clippers in the standings while playing 4 fewer games than the Clippers. Unless my math is incorrect, the Kings have played the fewest games of any Western Conference team. The Kings are going to have a more packed second-half-of-the-season schedule than a lot of their peers in the conference, so I'm curious to see if they can, indeed, play at least .500 ball the rest of the way.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Interesting point. Given that the Kings have looked fairly tired over this last stretch of games it would seem to be challenging for them to play that upcoming packed schedule. It's up to them to toughen it out or not.
I haven't looked in a week but my recollections is that most of our games in hand are in the L column of those behind us, so theoretically we don't have to play crazy, just stay healthy and consistent.
Can't really deny that good health part has been the undoing for a lot of the teams everyone said would be ahead of us.
Health is probably the biggest reason we're ahead of that blob of teams currently 5-13. Domas missed like 2 games, Fox I think 2 games and we haven't had a key rotation player miss any sort of significant time due to injury. We could probably absorb a Huerter injury the easiest, but man. Either of Keegan or Barnes and obviously Fox/Domas would be a pretty big blow to how we currently operate the rotation.
kingsfan101
Starter
Perhaps he was Monte's target all along! We just assumed Donte was the target, and he was the filler, while it was the other way round
Explains why he just let Donte walk.
TBH, I think this was all his agent's doing. He went public accusing the Kings of underplaying Donte to lower his QO. I mean, honest to god that is the dumbest play in the world, especially when it appeared we were serious about DDV. Still, we didn't let him walk until after we had picked up Monk and Huerter, so DDV actually came up huge for us as a backup card we chose not to play.
It's certainly a reasonable take.
On the other hand I've just accepted it since 2002 that it is what it is but god damn man, the stats bear out that we are the biggest loser in these L2M reports over the last few seasons (Utah is next).
I'm glad that we have a team that can play through this adversity, and tbh I am a lot more concerned with the way Domas is called for entire sections of games that neuters his defense or takes him out entirely, than these last two minute things. I also think Fox's longevity in this league will eventually hinge on him getting a better whistle as the team wins and grows.
But most of all, I'm frustrated by things like what went on with the Lakers. One of the most privileged teams in the league going absolutely nuts because it finally happens to them.
I like Ozy a lot and he's a pretty reasoned analyst on most of basketball, but damn is he wrong here. The Kings aren't the Bucks/Celtics/DEN where we can just run over teams by 8-10 every game. We've far exceeded all expectations this season and we likely end up around 45-47 wins. Good, but not contender status. So we're going to play in a ton of close games, especially as we learn to win as a franchise and not give up dumb mistakes that lets teams back in. And likewise, we've been the most screwed team in the NBA by the refs this season.
It doesn't excuse McDaniels being that wide open. Horrible defensive rotation by the Kings. But that also doesn't mean we just excuse the refs to miss that call and let the game go into OT. And to your point, it's pathetic how differently guys like Ja/LeBron/Zion/Luka get called over Fox and Sabonis. LeBron would have had a heart-attack by now he get reffed the same way Sabonis does with all the contact he absorbs at the rim.
I'm not asking for perfect reffing. I'm asking for us not to be freaking 13-23 in terms of getting "favorable" calls at the end of games. We aren't a good enough team to be overcoming those mistakes in clutch situations over and over and over again.
Yup, absolutely horrible, inexcusable defense on that play. They deserve to be called out for it, travel or no.
Seeing LeBron and Luka in particular act like petulant little children when they don't get a call is too much. I'd love to see the alternate universe in which we did draft Luka just to compare what his whistles would be like and to find out how Vlade, Joerger and co. fared before he ultimately forced his way to a bigger team.
coolhandluke
Starter
That's impressive. Do you have the lotto numbers by any chance? Just asking.
I had them at the #6 seed as my optimistic prediction. What I could never ever predict was the return of beautiful basketball on court. The offense is outrageous and the defense is improved.
I thought 6 was a distinct possibility from the night Sabonis first played in our jersey. I was overwhelmed and sad at myself for not appreciating him or the prospect of him on the team until I saw with my own two eyes.
I will not be disappointed if that's where we ultimately finish but I am relishing the opportunity to have a series with HCA. And also hopeful that I'll be able to make it down for a game with my son when that happens.
coolhandluke
Starter
This should be bolded. Seriously, it is sickening to watch how Sabonis and Fox get mauled on the court with no repercussions. Vivek should protect his multi-billion dollar assets and send a weekly compilation of dangerous plays done to his players to the NBA.
The whole point of sports is to have a level playing field and see who comes out on top on that particular day. In my opinion, it is against the integrity of sports to not call out obvious reffing "mistakes". Obviously, we expect the players to be mature and not let bad calls affect them. As for the fans, who are outside the court, the egregious mistakes of refs are fair game.
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kingsfan101
Starter
Didn't recall all the details, but my comments were more in jest.
I really was hopeful for DDV. Just like Monte I was more than happy to move on for the players we brought in though.
kingsfan101
Starter
So was I. I was unhappy that we let him walk.
Honestly speaking, I was a Bagley hopeful too for a long time. Kept thinking that while we obviously made the wrong pick, he could still turn out to be a good player. While Bagley deserved lot of blame, I did think that the FO/coaching staff could have put him in a better position to succeed, and fans should treat him for what he is, rather than the player we could/should have picked. He's proving me wrong in Detroit though.
Anyway, I inadvertently might have shifted the discussion to a different direction, which was not my aim. Just wanted to highlight that I'm happy with the way things turned out.
L2M report says it wasn't a travel - left foot was his pivot and he didn't move it.
There's screen grabs showing him move it though.
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