Kings sign Carl Landry

[mac]

You definitely need to stay away from the cooking analogies.

Our team was a crapfest; there's just no other way to say it. Carl Landry is a class act. He's a good teammate, a veteran presence, and he gets along very well with Malone. Him being here could very well help set the new tone in the locker room, something that shouldn't be overlooked right now.

We had two players who stood head and shoulders above the rest (not counting the rookie). Our new ownership decided to put his money on one of them. You can only have one lead dog on a sled team. Cousins is in the lead now. It might not have been what some would have chosen, but that's just the way it is. To argue that Evans didn't receive the same consideration is futile because we will never know all the data that went into management's decision, nor will we know what demands Tellem may have made that influenced that decision...

I support the guys who still wear the uniform, and remember fondly a lot of those who left. It's just life.

When I said that consideration wasn't extended to Reke I meant from fans here on this forum. And I totally agree with the cooking analogies

 

[steelevt]

Wow, did I choose the wrong day to be off kingsfans.com. This thread blew up and took forever to get through. My main gripe is the fact that a few, lets call them "pro PDA" posters, questioned the gratitude of Vivek from "anti PDA" posters. Who are you to question how much gratitude one has? Do you ghink because we question moves made by the fo we are lesser kings fans? That's complete b.s. Then Carmichael Dave puts up a tweet I assume is aimed at us to Vivek when no one even mentioned him when questioning the moves. We're all questioning the moves of Pete d'alessandro, you know the gm making these moves. Then also implies he's ready to blast us fans who don't have the same views as him. Kinda glad I'm busy working during his show on Monday. I know most if not all people complaining about these moves will settle down or take back what they said if these moves lead to a good sf or at worse a decent sf and a defensive big to pair with cousins. But until that happens we are free to critique moves in the present and not half to until the end of the season to say I told you so.

 

[Double-K]

Because Aldridge reported that the Clippers were looking to sign Landry also, but he decided on Sacramento. If we waited he may not have been available.

One could hope...

 

[NewArena]

That looks like a nice team to have. Better than what we got right now... yeah yeah yeah... gotta give it some time, I get it...

Definitely looks better

But we can't play on paper. Definitely looks like an exciting lineup though. And I'm still kinda sad that we won't get to see what Evans may or may not have been able to do under a guy like Malone

 

[Uk kings fan]

right i have just found out what happend.... Is this some kind of sick joke??

Im going back to bed. SMH

 

[jalfa]

okay, after a night's sleep, here's my theory how all this may have come down:

(in)famously, we were very quick on the draw on that Iggy offer, some say that was a pride thing and that he tried to leverage us. that narrative felt uncomfortable to me and looks really off now that he's signed for less money on a contender. I'm buying that Iggy was hesitant to commit to an offer and that the FO found that troubling, little less sure that they weren't going to wait because "they didn't want to get played".

what might've happened, at that point was that GS called and told PDA that they were looking to make room to sign Iggy, in a play for Dwight Howard and had solid reason to believe to be able to drop Biedrins and Jefferson without attaching Barnes to the package. had Dwight chosen GS, they'd have needed to get rid of Bogut and could be talked into letting go off Barnes in that deal. so we should kindly pull that offer sheet, let them do their thing and later the two teams could maybe talk Bogut/Barnes. their contingency was just keeping their thing going with Iggy and playing Barnes more as a smallball PF (hence not all that much need for Landry), our contingency would have been parlaying the caproom we gained into a shotblocker from elsewhere, say Houston who need to get rid of Asik now. at least that should've been our contingency.

what I'm scared off is that either Houston wasn't willing to straight salary drop Asik and didn't care for any of our assets, demanded that the potential trade partner or that PDA wasn't looking there in the first place, because he doesn't see the need for a good shotblocker. because now that we signed Landry, we have neither the capspace, nor the assets to acquire Asik, seeing as how, quite frankly, our roster outside of Cuz and McLemore sucks and isn't going to net any worthwhile player, especially now that every blind man and certainly every single GM in this league sees that we need to trade away some of this redundancy.

if the hypothetical original move goes through and PDA turns Reke into Vasquez, Barnes and Bogut, I'm giving him a standing ovation. what worries me though is that the guy that was supposed to be multiple moves ahead doesn't look very good with his contingencies. I'll again be yelled at to stay patient and see how this turns out and that there's still moves to be made. however, I'm looking at this roster and feel increasingly quesy about what moves could even be made. looking at the contracts and the players they're attached to, can you look me in the eye and honestly tell me that they're going to net anything?

 

[jalfa]

one more thing concerning Landry. one of the reasons that he had a career year in GS was that a lot of his run came in lineups featuring historic level shooting and floor spacing with nobody clogging up the paint, giving him the space to do his ultra-efficient lowpost thing. not gonna happen with Cuz around and with the bad shooting we have on the team so far, especially from the SF spot (underrated mistake from PDA: letting the likes of Korver, Wright or Barnes slip through his fingers, but hey, Luke Babbit is still around!).

play those two together and you're forcing one of them (Landry) out of his comfort zone and you get a much worse player, doing things he doesn't like doing. that matters, btw, and goes beyond just "well, he's doing fine from there statistically, let's just have him do that." force a guy into a role he's not comfortable with, his whole game suffers, look no further than everything the Kings have been doing these last few years as evidence.

some suggest not playing him and Cuz together. dandy! how many minutes do you expect Cuz to play next season? I'd want them shooting for 35-38. so if Landry is supposed to have any real impact, he'll be forced to play with Cuz and as bad a fit as that is offensively, Jesus Christ is that ever a terrible fit defensively! good thing that we've significantly improved our perimeter defense this offseason, huh? no. wait. that didn't happen at all. *sigh*

 

[KingsFanGER]

one more thing concerning Landry. one of the reasons that he had a career year in GS was that a lot of his run came in lineups featuring historic level shooting and floor spacing with nobody clogging up the paint, giving him the space to do his ultra-efficient lowpost thing. not gonna happen with Cuz around and with the bad shooting we have on the team so far, especially from the SF spot (underrated mistake from PDA: letting the likes of Korver, Wright or Barnes slip through his fingers, but hey, Luke Babbit is still around!).

play those two together and you're forcing one of them (Landry) out of his comfort zone and you get a much worse player, doing things he doesn't like doing. that matters, btw, and goes beyond just "well, he's doing fine from there statistically, let's just have him do that." force a guy into a role he's not comfortable with, his whole game suffers, look no further than everything the Kings have been doing these last few years as evidence.

some suggest not playing him and Cuz together. dandy! how many minutes do you expect Cuz to play next season? I'd want them shooting for 35-38. so if Landry is supposed to have any real impact, he'll be forced to play with Cuz and as bad a fit as that is offensively, Jesus Christ is that ever a terrible fit defensively! good thing that we've significantly improved our perimeter defense this offseason, huh? no. wait. that didn't happen at all. *sigh*

Can you name me something, that JT is able to do offensively, that Landry can't do too?
I m with you in term of defensiv problems, that can occur, if Landry and DMC are on the floor, but offensively i dont see that much of a difference to what our Frontcourt looks now.
I think Landry can provide some fighting spirit to the team, that JT or Patterson just dont have at all. Our current frontcourt is way too soft and doesnt show signs of leadership and fighting spirit at all, if DMC is off the floor. JT and Patterson seem to be very humble and nice guys, but they dont carry the team on their shoulders in terms of competiveness. Maybe the FO thinks, that Landry can do that.

On the defensive end, one can hope, that DMC improves as a shot-blocker under the reign of M.Malone. He has the timing, but seems to sleepwalk out there sometimes. If Malone thinks, that he can turn DMC into a defensive presence (maybe Shaq can help him too) there might be a spot for Landry, without weakening the defense all too much.

 

[jalfa]

Can you name me something, that JT is able to do offensively, that Landry can't do too?
I m with you in term of defensiv problems, that can occur, if Landry and DMC are on the floor, but offensively i dont see that much of a difference to what our Frontcourt looks now.
I think Landry can provide some fighting spirit to the team, that JT or Patterson just dont have at all. Our current frontcourt is way too soft and doesnt show signs of leadership and fighting spirit at all, if DMC is off the floor. JT and Patterson seem to be very humble and nice guys, but they dont carry the team on their shoulders in terms of competiveness. Maybe the FO thinks, that Landry can do that.

On the defensive end, one can hope, that DMC improves as a shot-blocker under the reign of M.Malone. He has the timing, but seems to sleepwalk out there sometimes. If Malone thinks, that he can turn DMC into a defensive presence (maybe Shaq can help him too) there might be a spot for Landry, without weakening the defense all too much.

Landry, bless his soul, is a nice player. not disagreeing with that. is he, however, so much better that it justifies paying him midlevel salary for the next four (four! and that from a guy stressing cap flexibility) years? does it justify damaging the trade value of our remaining pieces, which he does, seeing as how superfluous that acquisition would be if we kept all our PFs? I'm not convinced of that in the least. now add to that the fact that we've seen him work with Cuz and it didn't look good. part of that may have been coaching, but part of that is also the fact that they occupy a similar space offensively, which is one of the reasons Westphal tried to turn Landry into a jump shooter and this becomes even more questionable.

seems to me that thus far, PDA has mostly acquired pieces that looked good last season, in the context of their respective teams. it seems unlikely, however, that they'll be be able to reproduce that success in the context of this team.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Landry, bless his soul, is a nice player. not disagreeing with that. is he, however, so much better that it justifies paying him midlevel salary for the next four (four! and that from a guy stressing cap flexibility) years? does it justify damaging the trade value of our remaining pieces, which he does, seeing as how superfluous that acquisition would be if we kept all our PFs? I'm not convinced of that in the least. now add to that the fact that we've seen him work with Cuz and it didn't look good. part of that may have been coaching, but part of that is also the fact that they occupy a similar space offensively, which is one of the reasons Westphal tried to turn Landry into a jump shooter and this becomes even more questionable.

seems to me that thus far, PDA has mostly acquired pieces that looked good last season, in the context of their respective teams. it seems unlikely, however, that they'll be be able to reproduce that success in the context of this team.

I understand where you coming from. I dont know if signing Landry will make us a better team, or if PDA can trade JT/Patterson for anything valuable. There may be concerns, but after all, we have to wait and see.
I m not that concerned about the problems you mentioned on the offensive end. Landry and Cousins are not limited to the post-game and can hit mid-range jumpers at a decent level. Landry and Thompson are so similar, that it doesnt matter, who is playing next to Cousins, if Landry accepts a role-player-mentality.
I would prefer a defensive minded, shot-blocking, rebounding PF next to DMC too, but there seems to be noone available after all. If you ask me, i would even prefer Hickson over Landry, just for his rebounding.
But i think Landry is still an upgrade over Thompson or Patterson, just for his physicality and spirit. And this team really needs some hard-nosed, fighting guys to turn it around. The current players are so used to losing, that they dont even put up a fight anymore.

 

[jalfa]

I understand where you coming from. I dont know if signing Landry will make us a better team, or if PDA can trade JT/Patterson for anything valuable. There may be concerns, but after all, we have to wait and see.
I m not that concerned about the problems you mentioned on the offensive end. Landry and Cousins are not limited to the post-game and can hit mid-range jumpers at a decent level. Landry and Thompson are so similar, that it doesnt matter, who is playing next to Cousins, if Landry accepts a role-player-mentality.
I would prefer a defensive minded, shot-blocking, rebounding PF next to DMC too, but there seems to be noone available after all. If you ask me, i would even prefer Hickson over Landry, just for his rebounding.
But i think Landry is still an upgrade over Thompson or Patterson, just for his physicality and spirit. And this team really needs some hard-nosed, fighting guys to turn it around. The current players are so used to losing, that they dont even put up a fight anymore.

one last thing and then I swear I'll be done with this: yes, both Cuz and Landry can hit midrange shots. however, it isn't and really shouldn't be anything they should be encouraged to do. much of the offensive efficiency issues Cuz has had so far stem from the fact that he likes to take midrange jumpers on way too high a rate and he should be severely discouraged from keeping that as a central part of his game. as far as Landry, I come back to my earlier point, as capable as he is at making midrange shots (and, historically, it isn't as capable as last season might indicate), it's not something he's comfortable doing and also not something that maximises his talents.

 

[KingsFanGER]

one last thing and then I swear I'll be done with this: yes, both Cuz and Landry can hit midrange shots. however, it isn't and really shouldn't be anything they should be encouraged to do. much of the offensive efficiency issues Cuz has had so far stem from the fact that he likes to take midrange jumpers on way too high a rate and he should be severely discouraged from keeping that as a central part of his game. as far as Landry, I come back to my earlier point, as capable as he is at making midrange shots (and, historically, it isn't as capable as last season might indicate), it's not something he's comfortable doing and also not something that maximises his talents.

Once again i can definately agree with you. But the more you think about possible weaknesses, the more depressing the whole situation looks. I would be happy, even if we sign Greg Oden to fill the gaping whole of a rim protector. Hell if this guy can manage to get on the court for 50 games the Kings D would most likely be much better. I m trying to keep my hope up, so i concentrate on the positive things, that Landry might add to the franchise.

 

[KingMilz]

Once the season starts no one is going to complain about how Landry is playing or his effort level, the dude regardless if he starts or comes of the bench is going to be our best PF and bring some nasty the team is lacking. Carl is a skilled beast who will mix it up with anyone.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Once the season starts no one is going to complain about how Landry is playing or his effort level, the dude regardless if he starts or comes of the bench is going to be our best PF and bring some nasty the team is lacking. Carl is a skilled beast who will mix it up with anyone.

Hilarious how opinions change once a player signs for us. "Beast." Good one.

I don't have anything against Carl himself. He's a decent player off the bench and probably a good guy. But the signing if completely ridiculous. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[KingMilz]

Hilarious how opinions change once a player signs for us. "Beast." Good one.

I don't have anything against Carl himself. He's a decent player off the bench and probably a good guy. But the signing if completely ridiculous. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I have always said Landry is a "beast" always liked his game, I use the term beast since he's undersized and goes hard not cause well he's amazing. The signing is only ridiculous if we don't make another trade. People always refer to Kennath Faried as a beast as well even thought he's not for the same reason's I outlined before.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I have always said Landry is a "beast" always liked his game, I use the term beast since he's undersized and goes hard not cause well he's amazing. The signing is only ridiculous if we don't make another trade. People always refer to Kennath Faried as a beast as well even thought he's not for the same reason's I outlined before.

The only similarity between the two is they're undersized. Faried, however, is a beast. Or at least it's not an outrageous claim to say that he is. He's a far, far, far better rebounder and defender. I don't know what reasons you're referring to, but Faried is a far superior player to Carl Landry.

 

[mac]

I have always said Landry is a "beast" always liked his game, I use the term beast since he's undersized and goes hard not cause well he's amazing. The signing is only ridiculous if we don't make another trade. People always refer to Kennath Faried as a beast as well even thought he's not for the same reason's I outlined before.

It is fairly safe to say at this point that your idea of good players differs very much from mine. I won't fault you for that. But I simply disagree with about every player evaluation you've made on this site in the last 4 months. Everyone you think is over rated I think is valuable, and everyone you think is valuable I think is meh. Goes to show that we all see different things when watching games.

 

[KingMilz]

The only similarity between the two is they're undersized. Faried, however, is a beast. Or at least it's not an outrageous claim to say that he is. He's a far, far, far better rebounder and defender. I don't know what reasons you're referring to, but Faried is a far superior player to Carl Landry.

LMAO what? Faried is a pathetic defender who Landry crapped all over and bullied in the paint in the playoffs, Faried is NOT a far superior player to Landry, put Landry on that squad instead of Kennath in last year playoffs and the Nuggets are a better team than they were with Kennath. One can score from anywhere and finish in traffic while the other can only get easy garbage buckets/spoon feeds which don't translate into playoff success as most the Big Men who rely on scraps found out in the playoffs. Landry clowned no defense Faried

 

[Dime Dropper]

LMAO what? Faried is a pathetic defender who Landry crapped all over and bullied in the paint in the playoffs, Faried is NOT a far superior player to Landry, put Landry on that squad instead of Kennath in last year playoffs and the Nuggets are a better team than they were with Kennath. One can score from anywhere and finish in traffic while the other can only get easy garbage buckets/spoon feeds which don't translate into playoff success as most the Big Men who rely on scraps found out in the playoffs. Landry clowned no defense Faried

He is a superior player by quite some distance. You're going by one PO series, typical knee-jerk reaction. Landry is more skilled offensively, that's for sure, but he's not even close to being better. Faried sh*ts on him in the rebounding department, and I value that much more than a solid offensive game which we really don't need next to Cuz. You take your pretty offensive undersized PF, and I'll take the one that does the dirty work and plays bigger than his size.

 

[KingMilz]

He is a superior player by quite some distance. You're going by one PO series, typical knee-jerk reaction. Landry is more skilled offensively, that's for sure, but he's not even close to being better. Faried sh*ts on him in the rebounding department, and I value that much more than a solid offensive game which we really don't need next to Cuz. You take your pretty offensive undersized PF, and I'll take the one that does the dirty work and plays bigger than his size.

I think your still a tad upset about the departure of Evans, if Faried plays bigger than his size why does he get murdered in the post religiously? Faried will probably be one day a better player than Landry but right now he's not. He had no impact in the playoffs while Landry did that's what matters to me.

 

[andjel]

The story fits. The thing is we are so used to having a short sighted front office that apparently you cant even comprehend the possibility that they are capable of developing backup plans. Calderon was plan 1, and had he signed Vazquez would have been shipped off for something else. He declined our offer and we were left with a 6'6" PG who was third in the league in assists last year, and 2nd in assist rate. Its nice to have a front office capable of preparing for multiple possibilities.

And I'm sorry what is wrong with spending 6.5 mil on someone who you could count on as a big time bench player? Am I missing something?

That is not what you said:
"Neither guy wanted to come here, not that big of a surprise, their both older and want to win now. So they went with their backup plan and acquired Vazquez, a 6'6" pass first PG who's gotten better every year of his career."
Vasquez was acquired before Calderon rejected us.
Yes Vasquez was plan B, or C, who knows.

Regarding Landry, last year he could not find in the whole league better deal than 2 years for total of 8 mil (4 mil per year).
Quite similar stats that year as this year.
Kings gave him 4/26mil deal.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Right now this board is very negative over all. I can understand that, but it is important to try to look at some positive things, or you will lose all faith in the franchise.
DMC and Landry can finish in the post, finish through contact, hit mid-range-shots and execute on pick and rolls with Vasquez. This might give us some nice flexibility, especially if you value this passing-ability of DMC as much as I do. If i look at Memphis and how they established their big-man-game I can see some possible similarities. Gasol and Z-Bo are on a completely superior level of production right now, but they relie on the same flexibility mentioned above. Both can score in the post and shoot it from mid-range and both are very physical beings.
Eventually DMC and Landry may establish some similar relationship.
It is true, that our frontcourt lacks defense right now, but if we assume, that DMC, as young and talented as he is, can improve his offensive abilities, the same can happen for his defensive impact. Why should it be written in stone, that DMC is not able to develop into a defensive anchor? Why shouldnt we improve our team-defense overall?

 

[andjel]

Nice try. How about going with all his tweets? He clearly states they were trying to work a trade and sign Calderon. They agreed to the sign and trade for Vasquez when Calderon turned down the deal.

Thanks for digging into tweeter.
Posts 2 and 6 contradict themselves about the reason, and Voisin posted about trade as a done deal half a day earlier, but this gives reasonable doubt to what happened.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I think your still a tad upset about the departure of Evans, if Faried plays bigger than his size why does he get murdered in the post religiously? Faried will probably be one day a better player than Landry but right now he's not. He had no impact in the playoffs while Landry did that's what matters to me.

I'm more than a tad upset about the Evans thing. I'm furious. And this idiotic signing has sent me into overdrive, I really am one more pee-poor move away from calling for PDA's head, and I'm generally not someone that does that, especially not so early in his tenure.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Landry/Faried.

 

[BonziFan]

He is a superior player by quite some distance. You're going by one PO series, typical knee-jerk reaction. Landry is more skilled offensively, that's for sure, but he's not even close to being better. Faried sh*ts on him in the rebounding department, and I value that much more than a solid offensive game which we really don't need next to Cuz. You take your pretty offensive undersized PF, and I'll take the one that does the dirty work and plays bigger than his size.

Talk about typical knee-jerk reaction. Read most of this thread.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Talk about typical knee-jerk reaction. Read most of this thread.

Fitting reaction to a pointless, silly move. What did you expect? Most people aren't willing to blindly follow whatever PDA does regardless of whether we believe the move to be the right one. If you want to do it that's fine. I'll voice my displeasure as I see fit.

 

[BonziFan]

Fitting reaction to a pointless, silly move. What did you expect? Most people aren't willing to blindly follow whatever PDA does regardless of whether we believe the move to be the right one. If you want to do it that's fine. I'll voice my displeasure as I see fit.

It's not that I disagree with you that this signing doesn't make any sense. I do, but that also tells me that there is some planning going on because Pete sees the roster too. He knows what we know. If nothing materializes before the season starts I'm right with you. But I will at least give it a chance to see a final product for this year. That being said the final product this year will probably not be to our liking. It will be awhile. There will probably be more moves that will be unpopular, but I believe we will start seeing a method to the madness eventually. I could very well be wrong, but I hope not.

 

[Bricklayer]

Once the season starts no one is going to complain about how Landry is playing or his effort level, the dude regardless if he starts or comes of the bench is going to be our best PF and bring some nasty the team is lacking. Carl is a skilled beast who will mix it up with anyone.

Oh come on. We HAD Carl here. We went through this whole cycle just three years. Landry is going to do this, Landry is going to do that. Then you watched him play and it was readily apparent no he won't. And nasty? Haha. This isn't some rookie or even some unknown vet to us. This is a guy we know. He'll score well with a nice post game and a good midrange jumper, but he's a ball stopper, which frustrates. He'll settle and brick up multiple of those long midrange jumpers that make you mutter. We'll get frustrated by his boardwork, he'll get overwhelmed on defense, and when its he and Cousins the rim will be wide open.

When he was at his most dynamic/impressive years ago in Houston, he was actually splitting his time at SF, and overwhelming the powder puffs at that position with his postwork. Been a long time though and he's just...stiff if you will. Not a skilled enough dribbler or passer to make that a natural fit unless you have a very structured offense to focus on it.

 

[mac]

Right now this board is very negative over all. I can understand that, but it is important to try to look at some positive things, or you will lose all faith in the franchise.
DMC and Landry can finish in the post, finish through contact, hit mid-range-shots and execute on pick and rolls with Vasquez. This might give us some nice flexibility, especially if you value this passing-ability of DMC as much as I do. If i look at Memphis and how they established their big-man-game I can see some possible similarities. Gasol and Z-Bo are on a completely superior level of production right now, but they relie on the same flexibility mentioned above. Both can score in the post and shoot it from mid-range and both are very physical beings.
Eventually DMC and Landry may establish some similar relationship.
It is true, that our frontcourt lacks defense right now, but if we assume, that DMC, as young and talented as he is, can improve his offensive abilities, the same can happen for his defensive impact. Why should it be written in stone, that DMC is not able to develop into a defensive anchor? Why shouldnt we improve our team-defense overall?

I have yet to see a player that wasn't a good defender in his first few years in the league end up as a defensive anchor. They can improve to not being a liability, sure, but a defensive anchor is another thing altogether. Gasol was DPOY. I bet you that Cousins will never ever even make NBA 1st team defense, very likely not even 2nd team. That just isn't his calling.

 

[chief bromden]

This signing is a head-scratcher. Hopefully it makes more sense in the future once some trades happen. I like Carl, but 6.5 is pretty steep. If we find a way to ship Hayes out then I'd be ecstatic, although it appears that Patterson might be the most likely one shipped out with his contract situation.