S
sactownfan
Guest
it will suck if Portland passes us for the 12th pick....
Last edited by a moderator:
S
sactownfan
Guest
Well it looks certain that we will be picking either 12th or 11th... Indy has been playing well as of late with J O'neal back and looking to boost his trade value. The 11th pick would be nice.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
11th would be very nice, hell a tie with them would be nice. Maybe we would have more luck with the ping pong ball thing this year, instead of last year which robbed us of getting Brandan Wright.
S
sactownfan
Guest
Yeah Im Seriously worried about us being behind the Pacers... They are constantly being mentioned as having the same needs as us (PG/PF). I'd be nice to get in front of these guys.
With 4 games left were 2 games back. With the Pacers on a 3 game winning streak, and fighting for a playoff spot. Plus J O'neal back they could win at least two.
We play much tougher opponents and are missing Artest, and Miller now for the season. So maybe were done winning? SOOOOOO
cross your fingers! I'd say our odds are 50/50 at getting the 11th pick.
With 4 games left were 2 games back. With the Pacers on a 3 game winning streak, and fighting for a playoff spot. Plus J O'neal back they could win at least two.
We play much tougher opponents and are missing Artest, and Miller now for the season. So maybe were done winning? SOOOOOO
cross your fingers! I'd say our odds are 50/50 at getting the 11th pick.
Last edited by a moderator:
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I think if we get ahead of Indy we have a choice of Augustin if we want it. Randolph or Arthur will probably make it to us regardless though.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
I like the trade.. with the way Garcia is playing I think we can afford to loose Salmons for a future PG.. plus Pho liked Salmons so they could bite.
I also like your second rounders Dorsey & Foster both solid bench guys..
Next year we should slowly move hawes into the starting 5 and bring Moore off the bench as the energetic big which I think will be a way better role for him. Arthur is also a solid pick at 12 he fits good at PF beside Hawes at the 5. good scenario
Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
The problem is that Arthur brings yet another offensive-oriented big man to our team. Yeah he's young, yeah he's athletic, and those are definite anomalies to what we currently have, but come on, after Kenny Thomas, after Shareef, after Corliss Williamson, and now with Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes, do we really need another offensive-oriented big? Not to mention that I really think Arthur has some real red flags concerning his consistency and motivation level; his defense is already quite of the lazy sort, and he's not the shotblocker/guy with height we need. Just doesn't fit our team.
Now for the math.
Next year, if Ron accepts his player option, we have about $10M coming off the books, all of which is going to Kevin. That leaves us with $64M in payroll, up from $63M this year. We would not be able to re-sign Beno at all, were it not for being able to offer him the exception. And our bench will be short -- too short to be legal under the CBA (9 players total, even counting SAR and KT). So we'll still need 4-5 cheap scrubs.
2009-10 will be almost identical, the only person coming off the books will be Ron, and losing him will barely cancel out the automatic raises that everyone else will be getting. Re-signing him will be impossible unless we trade away some useful players for enders this year.
Buying out Thomas would gain us, at most, a million or two, which is only enough to pay an undrafted rookie to replace him. Not a bad idea necessarily, but not going to help the team much either. One towel waver rotting on the bench is pretty much the same as another.
SAR retiring would help quite a bit more, but that isn't something we can make him do, and he has about 13,000,000 reasons to not want to do it, so I'm not expecting that to happen. Nor do I think that either SAR or Thomas have any trade value at all yet, we will have to suffer until late 2009 before that comes about.
Trading Salmons (or anyone else) for a pick isn't legal anymore, since trades have to match salaries and picks are considered to have $0 salary. I feel that buying picks is a great idea, and, off the top of my head, I'm not thinking it counts against cap. But it's not something Geoff has ever done before, even when there seemed to be compelling reasons for doing so, so I'm not holding my breath.
So that basically leaves us with:
1) Sign Beno for most or all of MLE
2) Sign some scrubs for minimum
3) Hope that Geoff will buy a pick or two, despite his history of never doing that
Unless Stern pities us enough to abruptly change the rules, I can't see our affording to do anything more than that. So my rebuilding plan is: spend the 48 hours before the draft grovelling before the altars of the gods of basketball. Hope that we dump some combination of Artest, Salmons and Moore before the trade deadline. More praying and grovelling before the 2009 draft, and the 2010 draft. Check back in late 2010 and hope things have improved.
S
sactownfan
Guest
I think Beno is bad news... he's ok as a starter but cant hold up with starters min's. He's young but the injurys..... ? man quite a history there... You just cant make a commitment to someone who HAS NEVER stayed healthy. if we can grab him for 3 yrs for less than the mle with a team option for the 3rd year that'd be awesome.
Gary
All-Star
I know Artest said he was going to stay.... But yesterday on Grant Napear show he said it's up to his agent. SO.......... If Artest does not re-sign we are in position to re-sign Beno.. I wouldn't mind it being a 5 year deal with 4th-5th team option. 35mil for the 5 years... If we did it that way he might want more money up front with salary decreasing over the last 2 years. Maybe 7.75/7.25/7.0/6.75/6.25??? I can see him starting for a couple years, and drafting a PG in the next two years taking over his spot.. Beno is a decent PG and I wouldn't mind him staying.
S
sactownfan
Guest
I know Artest said he was going to stay.... But yesterday on Grant Napear show he said it's up to his agent. SO.......... If Artest does not re-sign we are in position to re-sign Beno.. I wouldn't mind it being a 5 year deal with 4th-5th team option. 35mil for the 5 years... If we did it that way he might want more money up front with salary decreasing over the last 2 years. Maybe 7.75/7.25/7.0/6.75/6.25??? I can see him starting for a couple years, and drafting a PG in the next two years taking over his spot.. Beno is a decent PG and I wouldn't mind him staying.
Re-sign Beno for 5yrs? at over 6 million a year? Sorry this guys hasn't earned anything in my eyes. Hes played well sure... but this guys always getting hurt, and sorry but no matter how good you are you cant help your team if your sitting out... we need to let this guy walk...
Remember Larry Hughes? had one awesome career year... which just happened to be a contract year... he got paid and has sucked ever since... If im petrie im not paying anyone just because of one good contract year where he was injured when he got here then injured again...
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Some random thoughts. It must be interesting to be Artest's agent. I wonder if he's as confused as we are sometimes. You have to believe that the agent would advise Artest to opt out if he really believes that he has some buyers. Afterall, most agents are paid a percentage of the players contract. So the more Artest makes, the more the agent makes.
Not sure why a lot of people on this board don't think that Beno is a good starting pt guard. I can understand concern about injuries, but not about his play. He's only 25 yrs old and still has room to improve. I remember when Nash was 25 and I personally was pretty critical of his play. He was out of control a lot and certainly wasn't near as good a shooter. Now he has an MVP award, and is an annual allstar. You have to be patient sometimes.
I subscribe to several scouting and draft publications. One in particular uses a lot of info garnered from NBA scouts. The majority are as concerned as some of us are about Arthur disappearing during games. His lack of consistency from game to game. None of them deny his talent. Quite a few of the scouts do think he will be a better NBA player than he was a college player. He played on a guard oriented team and the guards dominated the ball most of the time. Food for thought..
Not sure why a lot of people on this board don't think that Beno is a good starting pt guard. I can understand concern about injuries, but not about his play. He's only 25 yrs old and still has room to improve. I remember when Nash was 25 and I personally was pretty critical of his play. He was out of control a lot and certainly wasn't near as good a shooter. Now he has an MVP award, and is an annual allstar. You have to be patient sometimes.
I subscribe to several scouting and draft publications. One in particular uses a lot of info garnered from NBA scouts. The majority are as concerned as some of us are about Arthur disappearing during games. His lack of consistency from game to game. None of them deny his talent. Quite a few of the scouts do think he will be a better NBA player than he was a college player. He played on a guard oriented team and the guards dominated the ball most of the time. Food for thought..
S
sactownfan
Guest
no doubt Beno has been a great player for us this year.... but he's got a long record of being injury prone... to the point where teammates and coaches question his toughness....
My other argument is that i'd feel alot better giving him millions. had he already proven that he could play this way plus not miss a bunch of games in a non contract year.
My other argument is that i'd feel alot better giving him millions. had he already proven that he could play this way plus not miss a bunch of games in a non contract year.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I know Artest said he was going to stay.... But yesterday on Grant Napear show he said it's up to his agent. SO.......... If Artest does not re-sign we are in position to re-sign Beno.. I wouldn't mind it being a 5 year deal with 4th-5th team option. 35mil for the 5 years... If we did it that way he might want more money up front with salary decreasing over the last 2 years. Maybe 7.75/7.25/7.0/6.75/6.25??? I can see him starting for a couple years, and drafting a PG in the next two years taking over his spot.. Beno is a decent PG and I wouldn't mind him staying.
Artest says a lot of things, he also said it's up to message board posters so go figure. We won't know for sure until Artest makes his decision official, that will be after the draft most likely, but it will be before Beno's decision. My point is with Beno though that we can't afford to have his contract going into the years when we'll finally get cap space, we can't keep tacking on these mle sized deals and expect to ever have cap space. Artest's deal doesn't hinder any cap space plans at all so I don't see how his option impacts Beno's contract. He's nice to have, but he's not worth spoiling our cap space, not by a long shot.
One and Done
Bench
sactownfan, I share your sentiments towards Udrih.
As a die-hard, I'd hate to see another long contract go out to a player who constantly gets injured and/or can't consistently contribute.
Sure, Beno has had a good run...but nothing fantastic. His fearlessness to slash through defenders & create plays is a great attribute. But I'm also afraid Kings fans like him because he does things Mike didn't do.
But the thing is...this guy isn't great...still has more of a shoot-first mentality, lacks defensive prowess, and doesn't create enough. And the injuries, there is a reason that San Antonio let him go, you know...
At most, sign this guy to a contract similar to Mikki...maybe for a little less.
On a side note: imagine if Bonzi had accepted that 6-year/36-mill?
As a die-hard, I'd hate to see another long contract go out to a player who constantly gets injured and/or can't consistently contribute.
Sure, Beno has had a good run...but nothing fantastic. His fearlessness to slash through defenders & create plays is a great attribute. But I'm also afraid Kings fans like him because he does things Mike didn't do.
But the thing is...this guy isn't great...still has more of a shoot-first mentality, lacks defensive prowess, and doesn't create enough. And the injuries, there is a reason that San Antonio let him go, you know...
At most, sign this guy to a contract similar to Mikki...maybe for a little less.
On a side note: imagine if Bonzi had accepted that 6-year/36-mill?
Kingster
Hall of Famer
The only players I care about are Martin, Garcia and Hawes. Everybody else they can trade. Beno, I like, but not for $6 mill. Petrie won't trade up or down in the draft. Never has, never will. Unless I see it, I won't believe it.
The only way Petrie saves his rep as a GM is by getting value for Artest, Miller, and/or Salmons to get some young up and coming studs. Otherwise, his rep will continue to slowly sink and this team will continue with it's neverending story of mediocrity.
The only way Petrie saves his rep as a GM is by getting value for Artest, Miller, and/or Salmons to get some young up and coming studs. Otherwise, his rep will continue to slowly sink and this team will continue with it's neverending story of mediocrity.
Gary
All-Star
Three of the years as guaranteed.. That's not a big offer. Basically little over MLE for 3 years, and if things don't work out we cut him for the last two. I just don't think we are drafting a PG in this draft so we need Beno..
This team isn't going anywhere w/o a PG. The type of offense the Kings run isn't really a stat filler for the PG. Look at Bibby in Atlanta. Assists are up by about 1.5 per game. If Bibby were there the full year I think it would be more.
I am not a HUGE fan of Beno's, but I am a HUGE fan of having a PG.. It was just horrible watching a guy like Greene, or Douby trying to run the point at the beginning of the year.. I don't want to go through that again.. Plus the only way to get better is to keep the guys together right? Might as well try him out for three years... Give him a 5 year deal with the last two at a team option, and draft a PG next season. AJ Price, Ricky Rubio, Eric Maynor are all available next year...
Last edited:
I understand why people are skittish, though. If you look at the many times since about '99 that we've committed >$10M to any player, it has ended up being regrettable in some way an awful lot of the time.
We really do need a PG, I agree. Two, even. But let's not doing anything rash, like we did before.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think that Beno is a better player than people are giving him credit for, however, I do understand the concern about his injury record. I would make him a reasonable offer at around 4 to 5 mil a year for 3 yrs with any option thats ours for another year. Or offer him a contract for 2 yrs at 6 mil a year with an option for a third year thats ours. I like the second idea better. We get to try him out for a couple of years and decide if he's what we want at the pt. If not cut him loose. If we like him, we now also have his Bird rights along with the third year.
If we get lucky and win the lottery, cancel all of the above...
Hmmm...
I tried to come up with some sort of objective market value for Beno, but failed.
Points-wise, he is #18 among NBA PGs, at 12.6 PPG. This puts him in the company of guys like Alston, N. Robinson, TJ Ford, Tinsley, Hinrich and Fisher. Not exactly elite, but at least they are mostly starters.
His assists are not so good, #30 among NBA PGs, which is more like Brevin Knight, Jason Williams, Marko Jaric, Anthony Johnson, Ridnour or Duhon.
By the time one gets to assist/TO ratio, he's pretty well into the dregs at #72. His competition is Andre Owens, Aaron Brooks and JJ Barea -- bench players at the margin of the NBA. The players with similar assists/game listed above blow away his 1.9 A/TO ratio, at 2.4 (Jaric) to 4.6 (Knight).
So he's a $8M scorer, a $4M floor general, and an $800K fumbler.
I don't think I can average those out into anything which would be universally acclaimed as fair and reasonable.
I tried to come up with some sort of objective market value for Beno, but failed.
Points-wise, he is #18 among NBA PGs, at 12.6 PPG. This puts him in the company of guys like Alston, N. Robinson, TJ Ford, Tinsley, Hinrich and Fisher. Not exactly elite, but at least they are mostly starters.
His assists are not so good, #30 among NBA PGs, which is more like Brevin Knight, Jason Williams, Marko Jaric, Anthony Johnson, Ridnour or Duhon.
By the time one gets to assist/TO ratio, he's pretty well into the dregs at #72. His competition is Andre Owens, Aaron Brooks and JJ Barea -- bench players at the margin of the NBA. The players with similar assists/game listed above blow away his 1.9 A/TO ratio, at 2.4 (Jaric) to 4.6 (Knight).
So he's a $8M scorer, a $4M floor general, and an $800K fumbler.
I don't think I can average those out into anything which would be universally acclaimed as fair and reasonable.
Last edited:
Gary
All-Star
The assists per game could be up, but the type of offense we run does not allow for high assists per game. Bibby is up 1.6apg and his TOs haven't gone up... Anthony Johnson on the other hand just plain flat out sucks in this type of offense. Look at his assist numbers from Atlanta to Sac... Beno fits our system just fine imo. This is his first year starting.. I would rather see what Beno can do with some growth, then to replace our PG yet again, and start over.
I guess that's one way of looking at it. I've viewed it more from the opposite angle, that our offense went to crap because nobody was willing to make assists anymore. In 2003-4, we were doing 26.2 assists a game, 1st in the NBA. In 2004-5, 24.5, still 1st in the NBA. In 2005-6, the year Ron arrived, it began to dive, to 22.3 assists/game, 5th in the NBA. In the first Ron + Salmons year, 2006-7, it dropped like a rock, to 20.3, 22nd place. This year, just to show that we could hog the ball even more fervently, we dropped to 19.1 assists a game, 28th in the NBA.
I don't think it's a style, I think it's a disease.
Last edited:
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think you struck on it when you mentioned Ron's arrival. As it has become more his team, the desease, as you call it, has spread. Salmons doesn't help either, as his game is based on one on one play and dribble penetration. How many times have you seen Salmons receive a perfect pass to him on the perimiter, only to have him put it on the floor and drive into traffic for a harder shot. Its hard to get assists playing with people like that. I think Petrie and the powers that be need to decide what kind of team they want and get rid of anyone that doesn't fit that plan. Easier said than done, but as they say, one man's garbage is another man's treasure..
Beno
The stats on Beno are somewhat misleading. Remember, we signed him during the season and he was coming off a hand injury so no training camp and this was a brand new system. The offense unquestionably runs better with him in there. More flow less one on one by guys who can't pass (and we have too many of them). The glaring lack of a floor leader is obvious and painful watching guys with no court vision trying to get the offense going. The injuries are a concern, but remember this is only his 3-4th yr in the league and he sat for two behind a very good one in Parker as he was developing. I think he's worth MLE money and we look at a PG in the next few years. Also, his season stats are lower with the games he didn't start as Bibby was back from his injury. All in all Beno did a good job and he's better than anything we can sign out there now, and a rookie PG would be fodder to throw in there (except MAYBE Rose). Look at Conley, he was great last year but struggled this year, Acie law (most thought he was the most NBA ready PG as a senior) and he did poorly though he may not be a true PG. PG and centers have the steepest learning curves. On that same note, that's why Spencer has been so impressive, doing things NO ONE thought he could do (block shots and reb).
The stats on Beno are somewhat misleading. Remember, we signed him during the season and he was coming off a hand injury so no training camp and this was a brand new system. The offense unquestionably runs better with him in there. More flow less one on one by guys who can't pass (and we have too many of them). The glaring lack of a floor leader is obvious and painful watching guys with no court vision trying to get the offense going. The injuries are a concern, but remember this is only his 3-4th yr in the league and he sat for two behind a very good one in Parker as he was developing. I think he's worth MLE money and we look at a PG in the next few years. Also, his season stats are lower with the games he didn't start as Bibby was back from his injury. All in all Beno did a good job and he's better than anything we can sign out there now, and a rookie PG would be fodder to throw in there (except MAYBE Rose). Look at Conley, he was great last year but struggled this year, Acie law (most thought he was the most NBA ready PG as a senior) and he did poorly though he may not be a true PG. PG and centers have the steepest learning curves. On that same note, that's why Spencer has been so impressive, doing things NO ONE thought he could do (block shots and reb).
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Please, no. Trade him now. The longer you hold onto nitro, the more likely you'll get blown to smithereens.
Similar threads
- Yahoo! Sports - NBA - Sacramento Kings News
- Kings News Links
