Brick isn't bitter. Brick is laconic.
You really didn't expect Justin Williams to come out of nowhere and become the back-up center, did you?
Kings release Amundson AND Williams!
- Thread starter BMiller52
- Start date
Brick isn't bitter. Brick is laconic.
You really didn't expect Justin Williams to come out of nowhere and become the back-up center, did you?
supamari0
Bench
There are a decent number. here in houston we have 3 of them and all 3 should get playing time. Rafer Alston was an NBDLer for a little while after getting dumped by the Bucks. Chuck Hayes was the leading rebounder in the NBDL and then we signed him last year and picked up his option this year. And finally, we just signed John Lucas III to a 3 year deal after he ripped up the NBDL and summer league. (although he's been less than impressive in preseason)
Bobby Simmons (who was most improved player a couple of years ago) was an NBDL player. As was Devin Brown, Smush Parker, Andre Barrett, etc.. Most of these guys are fringe players on the 12 man rotation (with the exception of Alston and Simmons who are regular starters) But there are plenty more than what I named.
Who the heck else is gonna do it? Woods -- lame and waived. Potapenko -- worse and kept. At least before, I had hope for next year. Corliss? Is that the best we can do? Sheesh. Maybe I'll go watch volleyball or pingpong or something for a month or two.
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gofastws99
G-League
fnordius, hey good to see you here. I know you were hoping for Williams to make good, I was hopin both of them would make it, but a few game ago I knew Amondson was done. Wasn't sure about Williams.
I think (hope) the Kings have something in the works to trade/sign someone else. You know GP has a lot of things going on and most times they work out. But then again look at Taylor. So put your mind to work and let me know if there are any sign/trade situations out there that might work.
By the way i'm a new guy here, hope i'm not out of line.
I think (hope) the Kings have something in the works to trade/sign someone else. You know GP has a lot of things going on and most times they work out. But then again look at Taylor. So put your mind to work and let me know if there are any sign/trade situations out there that might work.
By the way i'm a new guy here, hope i'm not out of line.
nbrans
All-Star
And pray tell which shotblocker the Kings should have signed in the offseason that would have been the answer to all of our woes?
Oh, but it's so much easier to point the finger at Petrie.
PS: And all this complaining about Mo Taylor... he's here for one year at the veteran's minimum, people. No one has any illusions that Mo Taylor is the answer to anything except 10 mediocre minutes at center a night. That's what he's here to do. Just fill in.
vladetomiller
Bench
Thats the problem, while right now Mo might be a better candidate than any of the younger guys, where does that take you. Kings are not a championship contender by any means to think about veteran presence and one year deals to take you over the top, they are a mediocre team who are fighting to make the playoffs.
Is it better to have a veteran who can help you to the playoffs with a first round exit or some younger guys who can help you three years down the road, or maybe even miss the playoffs for a few years and build a nucleus that can be championship contenders in 5 years.
If you are keeping yourself competitive and at the same time getting young guys who can keep you up there for a while that will be great (Spurs) or if you revamp the roster and get young guns who can make you a contender in a few years though you might miss the playoffs for a few years that is another way (Bulls), you can keep the franchise player and build young pieces around them hoping for a championship (Cleveland , Lakers )
But years of mediocrity and making the playoffs with a high payroll imo doesnt take you anywhere (knicks ), they were in the playoffs year after year and mismanaged roster with over priced free agents took them nowhere and injuries to their high priced players really sucks the life out of them.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Unless the determination was that he was too stupid to EVER learn the plays, that still doesn't explain waiving him rather than keeping him around as player #15.
That's the thing here -- this wasn't a numbers issue. And it wasn't about them being good enough to contribute to our 12 man roster in a week. We basically determined that neither of them were EVER going to be good enough to do so, and that we would be better off with nobody as man #15 rather than one of these kids in the NBDL.
And maybe that's a correct assessment. Who knows. But let's be clear on what releasing minimum wage rookie kids means when you have an open roster spot -- its not about the other players you have now, not about the kids not being able to contribute now. Its a determination that they will never be able to do so and you have no use for them-- or at least not in the forseeable future. Pot, Corliss, Hart and Mo all go poof after this year. Its not as if there will never be any roster spots open.
nbrans
All-Star
The thing is, we still don't know if this is a team on the rise (2nd half of last season) or a team on the decline (1st half of last season). Given how great Kevin Martin looks in the preseason, a full season of Artest, Bibby quicker, my money is on a team on the rise. It's obviously not all there yet, and it's a team that's a move away from contention. But with a lot of guys in the 28-31 year old range, this is a team built to compete in the short term.
I just don't see the point of waiting three years for an undrafted free agent to maybe possibly pan out. You wait three years for an highly drafted high schooler with loads of potential. You don't wait for guys who were not even that great on the college level. Sure, those guys may get it together, but it's pointless to waste a roster spot on these types of players. Guys like Williams and Amundson are seriously a dime a dozen (Jabari Smith and Jamal Sampson in recent Kings history, let alone the dozens of others bouncing around the DLeague). I don't see why people are more upset about Williams and Amundson than they were about those guys.
I was right with all of you being excited about Williams and Amundson based on what I read. But then I saw them play -- they're nowhere near ready to contribute. I would be shocked if Williams or Amundson is better in three years than the mediocrity that is Mo Taylor now. In an ideal world, yeah, keep Williams and send him to the DLeauge -- had Bibby not been injured that may very well have happened. But I'm really not sweating it. They had every opportunity to make the spot, and they didn't. Let's move on to crazy trades for Kevin Garnett.
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nbrans
All-Star
I agree with all of this, and the one other scenario is that Petrie figures there will probably be a trade in the next year that might involve taking on more players than leave, and there's no sense in paying a 15th player or sticking him in the DLeauge whne he'd just be cut in that scenario.
Roman
Bench
You're assuming that these young guys were going to flourish and become productive if given time. That's not necessarily the case.
I'd rather have a worthless vet at 1 year than a bunch of worthless kids for 3-4.
AleksandarN
Starter
Hey the big nasty is tough. How dare you put him in that list of Charmin's finest.
AleksandarN
Starter
gunks
Hall of Famer
He's a F/C not a PG. I've read that apperently he has no basketball IQ, but seriously...They could have given him garbage minutes this season just to learn how to stay outta the way/do help defense. Plays didnt need to be run through him, he isnt Brad or Vlade, he could have just been that guy who stays near the basket and does dirty work.
I wasnt expecting him to be the backup center right away...But honestly, once he figured it out he would be a better bet then the guys we have on the team now.
And its not so much the fact that Williams was cut that annoys me, but the fact that for the past couple of seasons Petrie seems to avoid rebounding/shotblocking bigs in general like they had some kinda plague.
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nbrans
All-Star
Don't worry, some of it is devoted to bashing Petrie for not signing a shotblocker even though a good one hasn't been available in the last two offseasons.
AleksandarN
Starter
Darko or Tyson Chandler were both avaible since last season.
nbrans
All-Star
I hope Petrie made an offer for Darko, but other than Bonzi, who we needed last year and thought would be back, we didn't have an expiring contract. And we didn't have PJ Brown to offer Chicago. Ben Wallace was also available, but we couldn't afford him. Doesn't mean it was Petrie's fault.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You know, I ignored this the first time, but at the point that you are just spouting complete nonsense and trying to pass it off as fact, it goes too far.
Working form the base that:
a) Petrie is not God
b) Petrie screws up
I conclude:
c) in the past two years, and merely working from memory, these "not good" shotblockers have switched teams: Theo Ratliff, Tyson Chandler, Ben Wallace, Stromile Swift (twice), Darko Milicic, Kelvin Cato, Michael Olowakandi, Jamaal Magliore (twice -- borderline case, good defender too), Raef LaFrentz, DeSegana Diop, Jackie Butler, Francisco Elson (both borderline cases), Jerome James, Rasho Nesterovic, Greg Ostertag, Kurt Thomas (borderline), Mark Blount (borderline), Chris Mihm, Zo Mourning, Brian Skinner. In addition, these have been free agents: Joel Pryzbilla, Samuel Dalembert, Dan Gadzuric, Eddie Griffin, Zydruynas Ilgauskas, Erick Dampier, Adonal Foyle?, Nene (borderline), etc.
And I'm sure I'm forgetting more than a few. Now we can do our normal dance where you somehow simultaenously claim that Geoff is a paragon of perfection, and yet cannot possibly be blamed for not getting any of the above shotblockers (all fo whoim are of course undesirable anyway) while all of his vastly inferior competition somehow backed into it, but that list composes I would say at least a third of the significant shotblockers in this league. And as I mentioned, its not even complete. Nor did I include the pure rebounders (Reggie Evans etc.) or shotblocking smalls (Marsahll, Wallace etc.).
Its all about dedicatrion and priorities. Geoff could have grabbed one or more of those names with all the tealnet he has had at his disposal as trading pawns, but in his soft, perimeter oriented mind the shotblockers were not worth the cost in more "skilled" players. So others scooped them up. If he put a premium on such players, they would be here. He does not, so they aren't.
nbrans
All-Star
Seriously Bricklayer, I'm not in the mood to get into an idiotic back and forth. I never said Petrie was perefct, but here you are expecting more than perfection and the impossible out of Petrie. Go bait someone else.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Hardly.
I actually think Geoff is a quality GM.
Which is why of course that it is completley inexplicable that in a DOZEN years as GM of this franchise exactly ONE significant shotblocker has lasted more than 1 year for us. ONE. And that was Scot Pollard, who was good for a few years but hardly a specialist. Actually, take that back -- two. of course #2 was Chris Webber who I am quite sure impressed Geoff far more with his offensive skills than that silly shotblcoking stuff. That was jsut a lucky bonus.
It has long since begun approaching Nellieesque small ball fascination standards. Coaches have come and gun. Players, even owners. The one constant is Geoff. And a GM who has dug up and brought in talent after talent at the small positions has found or recognized diddly and squat when it comes to shotblcokers and bangers inside. And that simply cannot be accident over that period of time.
Actually can full circle to the KG fantasy ast some point -- one fo the few defensive monsters inside wiht the overall offensive and ball skills to get Geoff's nose twitching.
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coolhandluke
Starter
QFT.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Exactly.
And Brick, maybe you know the answer to this question: Who was the last shotblocker Petrie signed through free agency? Was it Ostertag? Cause thats kinda depressing...
nbrans
All-Star
In the recent history of the Kings, Pollard, Clark, Ostertag and Skinner (all shotblockers) have all been on the roster at one time or another. The last year and a half without a shotblocker have been the exception, not the rule.
Meanwhile, we know that Petrie went after Przybilla and Wilcox in the offseason, and those are just the ones we know about. But it hasn't worked yet. Any idiot can see that the Kings need shotblocking and an interior presence, it's another matter to figure out how to successfully solve that problem.
gunks
Hall of Famer
The question was who was signed through free agency and recently (past couple seasons or so).
Pollard, and Keon were about 4 seasons ago. Skinner was a trade. So am I right about it being Ostertag then?
vladetomiller
Bench
Pollard was on the team on design. Clark we let him walk away, maybe in hindsight a good move knowing where he is now, Skinner was part of a trade deal and we didnt care to keep him around.
Otag is the only player that was signed and he was not signed for his shot blocking ability, he was signed as the best backup center available in that price range.
If so, it would seem that Musselman and Petrie weren't in agreement on the subject, since Muss said (15 Oct.): "Whether it's with us or someone else, (Justin Williams is) going to be in the NBA."
