Kings @ Pistons Game Thread

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piksi

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In a worst game of the 07/08 season - Kings lost to Raptors much worse than the score indicates despite winning the 1st quarter by 6 to drop to 15-22 which is 9th worst in the league, pretty much where we have been all season. Kings dropped to 4-13 on the road which might get worse considering the back to back set in Detroit and Indianapolis coming up in the next couple days. Kings are also 0-1 on the 3 game road trip and they are in the stretch of 6/7 games being on the road once again searching for order, identity, chemistry etc...
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There are good and bad deja vu situations in life. The game from last night goes in the category of horrible. It was vintage 06/07 Kings and actually only one man was missing - and a laptop with a power point presentation. Everything else was there including the half time koolaid that was taken after the 1st quarter. Lack of everything but individualism was there again.Makes You wonder - how much was Muss really to blame - well not really. I still think that he is only good enough to coach lakers but I am going to try to present this in an analogy if I may. There are good cooks and bad cooks. Neither can bake a cake out of garbage because if You put garbage in - You get the garbage out. Very simple. However, a good cook might be able to go trough that garbage and pick some things out and make something somewhat edible.
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More is less - sounds stupid but sometimes it is true and last night, it was as true as ever. At a random point in time once can only wear a pair of shoes, underwear, pair of sicks, pants, shirt, jacket, hat. If one is forced to wear 2 pair of shoes, longs and short pants, 2 hats and a robe at the same time - that person is not only badly dressed but it also looks ridiculous. Same goes for a basketball team good or bad one. You need scoring, shooting, rebounding, defense, setting screens, FT shooting and so on. You need a certain amount of everything at the same time on the floor. You need to have a certain balance to be successful. Last night we were balanced like one legged person with no arms walking a tight rope.
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Chemistry on the court is crucial. Kings have had bad experience with destroying the chemistry in 03/04 and last night similar thing happened just on a different scale. And there isn't really anyone to blame for it. It isn't an individual thing - it is a group thing. It takes time do develop the chemistry and cohesion but it can be ruined in one night. In the last couple weeks Kings looked like they were turning a corner not in terms of success this season or making a PO push but in terms of developing an identity, playing for each other and being competitive all the time. In 2 days a team that beat on of the best teams in the league and that hasn't been blown out in a while - turned to Minnesota Timberwolves.
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Role players are making the difference between a good team and a bad team assuming that stars will be stars. The Vlades and the Dougs of the world are what is crucial for a teams success. They do so much for others and it keeps a team together. The guys who do dirty work not because they have too but because they know that it is what is needed. The guys who don't have designed plays and who don't score 20 pts per game even though they could. We didn't have enough of them last night. We hardly had any and it showed in a bad, bad, way.
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Mike and Ron look like 5th wheel on a car and it isn't their fault at all. They don't fit here anymore at this stage in terms of what we need and what they need or deserve. We need hungry guys who want to prove themselves, who are hungry to play, to win. Mike and Ron aren't hungry that way. They need to play for the big prize. They need to play somewhere - where they will just be the other guy and not the guy because they were never the guys or not any good for that matter. They don't create for others, they don't work for others their agendas aren't the Kings agendas anymore. Nothing wrong with that. We just have to go separate ways doing what is best for everyone and soon.
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Mikki is on a KT level of sucking these days. He plays way too much for what he is giving us which is almost nothing other than his usual 5-6 fouls per game including 2 of them which give the opponent the 3 pt play and one is a foul on a 3pt shooter. You add the stone hands to this repertoire and I want to puke.
I would package him too if possible because we have couple big guys who need development and who actually have a capacity to improve. With Mikki - what You see is what You will get and there isn't anything extra coming in the future.
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Well Raptors were happy to play us the other night. As easy home win as they will have all year. We were decent in the first quarter and then we lost the other 3 by 14, 12 and 5 respectively and in the last quarter we made the score nicer in the garbage time. We took 27 threes and 15 free throws and that isn't the Kings of the last couple weeks. You add 19 assists and 20 turnovers and -13 rebounds to that and You won't win in the NBA against any team. We got our guys back and it went bad but that won't change since they have to play and they just don't play well together. I have never seen it before that 3 bench players all have more FGAs than any of the player from the starting lineup. that is a bad sign.
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AWARD TIME

TDM went to Delfino. 26/7/6/4 is a career game any day for a scrub. We didn't even try to contain him.

LW-VC award went to Bargnani but it wasn't even remotely important.

Ron gets the JHA award for his pathetic performance.

Mikki gets the SAR - Methuselah award and there really isn't any explanation needed.

WTF moment of the game - Kings zone in the 2nd quarter
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Pistons are next and the problem is (in addition with everything going on) that we beat them early in the season in Sacramento and they will remember it so they might play extra harder. We don't even know the lineup or the rotation and have to play a great team. A blowout wouldn't be a surprise. We going to have to defend perimeter and that won't be easy. I would be happy if we make it competitive and they don't hold us to a pathetically small amount of points. We have to play our best and we don't even know what that is with this group of guys. I wouldn't be shocked if the 2nd half turns into a garbage time.
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Mike - as long as the numbers are good
Ron - probably still not healthy enough
Kevin - will continue to suffer until the situation is resolved
Salmons - slowly fading
Cisco - same
Brad - only guy who wans't to affected.
Moore - garbage
Udrih - ineffective
rest - really hard to evaluate right now

Coach T - not working - try something else.
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Pistons are 29-10 and 14-3 at home. They were on an 11 game winning streak before splitting the last 6 games so they will be looking to improve. They have the best starting lineup in the league. Every guy can have a big night. We won't be able to guard Wallace one on one so defensive rotation will be crucial. TDM will go to Maxiell. LW-VC will go to Prince. Other awards are coming. I don't see us having a chance tomorrow night.
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Ya know, as bad as the offense was vs the Raptors, the defense was also bad with Ron and Bibby in. Ron is one of the top individual defenders in the league, but the problem is that team defense can change the game. The team defense with Salmons and Garcia just looks better at the wings, and Beno can use his quickness to stay in front of guys. Bibby looked like he was trying to put some effort into the defensive end, but Ron just doesn't look like he makes an impact from the team defensive standpoint. I've thought this since the beginning of the year, when Theus was using his zone. It just seemed to me that the more athletic Salmons and Garcia just fit better because they could use their length and quickness to be more effective in their rotations and reaction.

If Reggie wants to use his zone with Detroit when Mike and Ron are in, the kings will probably get eaten alive.
 
Ya know, as bad as the offense was vs the Raptors, the defense was also bad with Ron and Bibby in. Ron is one of the top individual defenders in the league, but the problem is that team defense can change the game. The team defense with Salmons and Garcia just looks better at the wings, and Beno can use his quickness to stay in front of guys. Bibby looked like he was trying to put some effort into the defensive end, but Ron just doesn't look like he makes an impact from the team defensive standpoint. I've thought this since the beginning of the year, when Theus was using his zone. It just seemed to me that the more athletic Salmons and Garcia just fit better because they could use their length and quickness to be more effective in their rotations and reaction.

If Reggie wants to use his zone with Detroit when Mike and Ron are in, the kings will probably get eaten alive.

I am thinking after 5 straight games allowing teams to hit 10 or more 3pters on us (a club record) that sooner or later Reggie is going to catch the hint that teams are beating our zones now by just bombing over the top of them.
 
I am thinking after 5 straight games allowing teams to hit 10 or more 3pters on us (a club record) that sooner or later Reggie is going to catch the hint that teams are beating our zones now by just bombing over the top of them.
Well, zones are designed to limit penetration, so really the only way of beating the zone is to create gaps, or to hit outside shots. Not every team out there can out-bomb a zone. Raptors are a great shooting team, and they were able to do that, and they have to keep that in mind when they face the teams that are capable of consistently hitting those 3's.
 
Well, zones are designed to limit penetration, so really the only way of beating the zone is to create gaps, or to hit outside shots. Not every team out there can out-bomb a zone. Raptors are a great shooting team, and they were able to do that, and they have to keep that in mind when they face the teams that are capable of consistently hitting those 3's.


Note the 5 straight games.

I think the zone thing has grown to be too much of a crutch. Its a situational move -- bad shooting team that likes to work inside? Go to a zone (although it hurts our already weak rebounding). But we have gotten to the point we just use it every night, no matter who we are playing, and we are paying for it now. If we drop into a zone again tonight the Pistons will also probably bomb us into oblivion. You've got to be smart about it and pick your spots/opponents, otherwise it hurts as much as helps.
 
Note the 5 straight games.

I think the zone thing has grown to be too much of a crutch. Its a situational move -- bad shooting team that likes to work inside? Go to a zone (although it hurts our already weak rebounding). But we have gotten to the point we just use it every night, no matter who we are playing, and we are paying for it now. If we drop into a zone again tonight the Pistons will also probably bomb us into oblivion. You've got to be smart about it and pick your spots/opponents, otherwise it hurts as much as helps.
All of those 5 teams have serious 3 point threats, but I agree that the Kings going to zone too often gives the opposition better shots. With that said, the 5 games that were referenced before the raptor game, the Kings were 3-2.
 
So, what is going to be any different tonight?

We are still going to bring in Bibby and Artest, probably the same line-up and rotations.

Are we just going to cross our fingers and hope they play together? Magically?
 
So, what is going to be any different tonight?

We are still going to bring in Bibby and Artest, probably the same line-up and rotations.

Are we just going to cross our fingers and hope they play together? Magically?
They do get some time to allocate themselves to the lineup? don't they?

Don't get me wrong. I think we stink and I dont think this new lineup will work but evaluating how terrible they are based on the Toronto game as this website has generally done is a bit premature. At least give them 5 games? right?
 
What's magical about 5 games? It sounds just like last year when people were saying to give Musselman 40 games...

It wasn't hard to recognize a total lack of chemistry on the court in Toronto. It doesn't take 5 games to know that Bibby, Martin, Artest, Moore and Miller AREN'T going to bring the energy and excitement to the court that Udrih, Salmons, Garcia, Moore/Martin, Miller/Hawes bring to the court.

We aren't going to the playoffs. We aren't going to magically get back to the golden days of yore.

I personally would much rather watch a team of Udrih, Garcia, Salmons, Martin, etc. play with heart and hustle, energy and excitement and lose than watch Bibby, Martin, Artest, Moore and Miller eke out a few wins but without the energy and excitement we've been experiencing lately.

If even I, often called the biggest Pollyana and Kings homer on the planet, can see the problem I don't think waiting 5 games to talk about it will change anything.

The emperor has no clothes. Waiting for them to magically appear isn't going to change a thing.
 
What's magical about 5 games?
1 game on the road against a good team is not a very good sample.

Also, what made you think Bibby did not play with energy and excitement. He did alright. It was everyone not named Kevin and Mike that stunk. Also Theus got absolutely worked in Toronto.
 
1 game on the road against a good team is not a very good sample.

Also, what made you think Bibby did not play with energy and excitement. He did alright. It was everyone not named Kevin and Mike that stunk. Also Theus got absolutely worked in Toronto.

I didn't say nor did I mean to imply that Bibby didn't play with energy and excitement. I was referring to the five-player combination of Bibby, Martin, Artest, Moore and Miller. That is NOT the starting lineup that gets me excited about watching a game...

Sorry for the confusion.
 
Also Theus got absolutely worked in Toronto.

And that's the first thing he said in the post game interview, too...when he said we were 'totally outworked', I think he probably was referring to himself in that statement, as well as his players. It will be interesting to see what the demeanor of the team will be tonight as the game wears on to the 3rd/4th qtrs., if we get down early, will they just fold up their tents and give up, or will they actually fight as a TEAM to get back into it.
 
I didn't say nor did I mean to imply that Bibby didn't play with energy and excitement. I was referring to the five-player combination of Bibby, Martin, Artest, Moore and Miller. That is NOT the starting lineup that gets me excited about watching a game...

Sorry for the confusion.
It's hard for me to get excited about any combination at the moment. (that Dallas game was sure fun though) My only point is that I think we are not giving this team enough of a chance, 1 game on the road in Toronto is not enough. Do I agree with your assessment? Probably. I just think it is a bit early to say that the team (excitement and energy wise) we saw on Wednesday is the team we will see until someone is traded.
 
And that's the first thing he said in the post game interview, too...when he said we were 'totally outworked', I think he probably was referring to himself in that statement, as well as his players. It will be interesting to see what the demeanor of the team will be tonight as the game wears on to the 3rd/4th qtrs., if we get down early, will they just fold up their tents and give up, or will they actually fight as a TEAM to get back into it.
I'm slowly buying into Theus, that is why I would like to see what he can do with this full crew for more then a game. I appreciate his willingness to admit mistake and his apparent leadership initiative to take the team in his direction.
 
It's hard for me to get excited about any combination at the moment. (that Dallas game was sure fun though) My only point is that I think we are not giving this team enough of a chance, 1 game on the road in Toronto is not enough. Do I agree with your assessment? Probably. I just think it is a bit early to say that the team (excitement and energy wise) we saw on Wednesday is the team we will see until someone is traded.

I would love to be wrong. I just can't help but think of "If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck..."

On the other hand, I am totally impressed with Reggie Theus. He's already brought this team further back in less than half a season than I thought he'd be able to do all year. It's just a question of whether or not it can continue and I'm not talking about W-L. I'm talking about attitude, demeanor, etc.
 
I would love to be wrong. I just can't help but think of "If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck..."

Unfortunately in recent years our front office has decided that the completion to that statement is "its probably a prince who can be transformed by a magic kiss."
 
BREAKING NEWS:

Wanna get in on some edgy game-time chat? Check out mIRC, server irc.bludgeon.org, channel #kingsfans! Little less restricted than the board, hosted by Mr. S£im, it's a great place to augment the game discussion thread and PBP. We're nothing if not full service here at Kingsfans.com!!!

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i think Musselman should from here on in only be referred to He Who Must Not Be Named. i read his name in a thread and my train of thought immediately gets derailed.
 
BREAKING NEWS:

Wanna get in on some edgy game-time chat? Check out mIRC, server irc.bludgeon.org, channel #kingsfans! Little less restricted than the board, hosted by Mr. S£im, it's a great place to augment the game discussion thread and PBP. We're nothing if not full service here at Kingsfans.com!!!

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i prefer posting every 30 seconds :p
 
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