[Game] Kings @ Pacers, 3/23/2022 4pm Pacific, 7pm Eastern

[ockingsfan]

While I am extremely unhappy about many things this season, the main thing was keeping Luke around and I have my doubts that this decision was Monte's alone. The man hasn't gotten to choose his own coach yet. Next season when presumably this does happen will be when we truly know if he has just gotten lucky in the draft or if he has a real mind for the game.

One thing I wished Monte would had done when he fired Luke was to give Doug Christie the chance to take over as interim Head Coach. That would had the been the "big balls"/ "swing for the fences" move by Monte, but he took the safe route with Gentry.

The season was still early at that time and Doug may have given the Kings a shot in the arm and a new voice and persona for the team. The sad thing is, if and when Gentry is let go, the new coach will probably pick his own assistant coaches, so Doug may be out too.

 

[kingsboi]

Gentry is the source of all my anger.

who's it going to be once he's gone?

 

[Letsgokings13]

View attachment 10999

Two clowns

 

[EIM86]

One thing I wished Monte would had done when he fired Luke was to give Doug Christie the chance to take over as interim Head Coach. That would had the been the "big balls"/ "swing for the fences" move by Monte, but he took the safe route with Gentry.

The season was still early at that time and Doug may have given the Kings a shot in the arm and a new voice and persona for the team. The sad thing is, if and when Gentry is let go, the new coach will probably pick his own assistant coaches, so Doug may be out too.

I heard vivek wanted to but most of the employees were like NOOOOOO too early

 

[TaxMan]

Two goofs I couldn't be happier to see fail elsewhere.

Bags has been doo doo in Detroit, and of course we saw Buddy do Buddy things yesterday.

Year over year, Bags has been amazingly consistent. In fact his rookie year may have been his best statistically. He is who he is at this point... mediocre to below average contributor. It is telling that he's basically playing the exact same amount of minutes in Detroit as he was in Sac for 4 years. He'll flash a 20 and 10 game every so often, but so what. He's a 25 min per game guy and I doubt anything in excess of that going forward.

 

[The_Jamal]

Year over year, Bags has been amazingly consistent. In fact his rookie year may have been his best statistically. He is who he is at this point... mediocre to below average contributor. It is telling that he's basically playing the exact same amount of minutes in Detroit as he was in Sac for 4 years. He'll flash a 20 and 10 game every so often, but so what. He's a 25 min per game guy and I doubt anything in excess of that going forward.

Yeah I think he's basically the new age Enes Kanter "Freedom". Good enough he can be a productive offensive burst guy off the bench vs back-up bigs, but just doesn't have the defensive chops or enough offensive versatility to be a starter.

 

[Kingster]

again not dissing Mitchell or the need for a good back-up point guard at all. Just a back up point guard is not the target with a top 10 pick.

and you are technically correct that we are stagnant at 12th in the west 31 wins. But as our core ages you could argue we have relatively gotten worse

If Mitchell is going to be a backup in perpetuity, I agree - it would not be a home run with a top 10 pick. But just because you begin as backup doesn't mean you don't have starter ability. Mitchell could be a starter if Fox gets traded. Or he could be a starter somewhere else. Regarding the former scenario, if Fox comes into camp next year like he did this year and plays the first 20 games like a scrub then Mitchell is a good backup plan.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Two goofs I couldn't be happier to see fail elsewhere.

What is your definition of "failure," in this context?

 

[Livinthedream]

Bags catching strays in the Pacers thread.

 

[gunks]

What is your definition of "failure," in this context?

Failure as in dragging a team down with poor play, and I'm sure those locker rooms will get dragged down as well, as both dudes have pretty crappy personalities too.

I'm being petty, but I'm also feeling some satisfying schadenfreude"I toldja so-ism" directed towards sports media and other casuals who were all about "Free so and so" from the Kings and acting like these two would be good players once free of this (admittedly dumpster fire) franchise.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Year over year, Bags has been amazingly consistent. In fact his rookie year may have been his best statistically. He is who he is at this point... mediocre to below average contributor. It is telling that he's basically playing the exact same amount of minutes in Detroit as he was in Sac for 4 years. He'll flash a 20 and 10 game every so often, but so what. He's a 25 min per game guy and I doubt anything in excess of that going forward.

I don't make a total habit of it but I check his stats now and then and they are what they were here. He even missed a week of games with an injury after he got there. His minutes were down I think due to that, which brought his turnovers down (likely cause?) but same guy. The confusing part is Detroit brought him in and are clearly still tanking so you would think they'd play him more to see if he's worth keeping around. Are they planning to low ball him or just match whatever he gets on the market so doing this deliberately? It's a bit hard to imagine that if they wind up picking top 4 they won't draft over him.

 

[TaxMan]

Bags catching strays in the Pacers thread.

lol

 

[TaxMan]

I don't make a total habit of it but I check his stats now and then and they are what they were here. He even missed a week of games with an injury after he got there. His minutes were down I think due to that, which brought his turnovers down (likely cause?) but same guy. The confusing part is Detroit brought him in and are clearly still tanking so you would think they'd play him more to see if he's worth keeping around. Are they planning to low ball him or just match whatever he gets on the market so doing this deliberately? It's a bit hard to imagine that if they wind up picking top 4 they won't draft over him.

seriously.... I'm baffled as to why the Pistons aren't giving him 35 min a game for the rest of the year. Multiple coaches have lived the Marvin Bagley experience and they all agree he's a 25 per min guy.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

seriously.... I'm baffled as to why the Pistons aren't giving him 35 min a game for the rest of the year. Multiple coaches have lived the Marvin Bagley experience and they all agree he's a 25 per min guy.

and of course the problem is if they do re-sign him in a way that feels disrespectful (ie, matching a low ball offer or the QO) Coach Bagley is going to become a major distraction.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Failure as in dragging a team down with poor play...

Okay, so before they traded for Bagley, the Pistons' win percentage was .232, and since trading for Bagley, their winning percentage is .412, while Bagley is averaging double-digit points, on a career high field goal percentage, the second-highest WS/48 of his career, and is currently tied with his second-highest PER of his career. Now, I'm not prepared to put an 18% win percentage improvement all on Bagley, as there are obviously other factors involved, but I do feel like it merits the follow-up question of: how, exactly, is he dragging the team down?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't make a total habit of it but I check his stats now and then and they are what they were here. He even missed a week of games with an injury after he got there. His minutes were down I think due to that, which brought his turnovers down (likely cause?) but same guy. The confusing part is Detroit brought him in and are clearly still tanking so you would think they'd play him more to see if he's worth keeping around. Are they planning to low ball him or just match whatever he gets on the market so doing this deliberately? It's a bit hard to imagine that if they wind up picking top 4 they won't draft over him.

Are we sure that they're "clearly" still tanking? Between Cunningham and Bey, they may think that they've already got the guys they want to build around.

 

[gunks]

Okay, so before they traded for Bagley, the Pistons' win percentage was .232, and since trading for Bagley, their winning percentage is .412, while Bagley is averaging double-digit points, on a career high field goal percentage, the second-highest WS/48 of his career, and is currently tied with his second-highest PER of his career. Now, I'm not prepared to put an 18% win percentage improvement all on Bagley, as there are obviously other factors involved, but I do feel like it merits the follow-up question of: how, exactly, is he dragging the team down?

If we were to have this debate like non-internet people, using facts and logic, you'd clearly have me bested!

But this is the internet, my good sir. Just let me have my confirmation bias when I check the odd box score and see he had a negative +\- in limited minutes!

So I guess to circle back, their "failure" as defined by me, is nebulous, doesn't need to reflect reality as long as it somehow makes me feel better about the current state of our franchise via some bizarre logic that could be probably be explained via therapy or maybe even a youtube lecture series on psychology, but I don't want to mess up my perfectly cultivated algorithm (cats videos, very specific ASMR, and Elden Ring build guides).

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Are we sure that they're "clearly" still tanking? Between Cunningham and Bey, they may think that they've already got the guys they want to build around.

They lost to Portland the other night and sit third in the tank standings. They may not be chucking freethrows off the rim in 1-pt games but I believe they are pretty clearly this season?

eta: I only saw your other posts about a bump in win % after this - it looks like they got a few wins against fellow tankees and two OT wins against playoff teams (at least one of which happened while Marvin was out). Not entirely sure how they fared compared to Houston, Orlando and OKC the other full season tank jobs since the break but they are all within a game and a half of each other and at least 5 behind Indy so unless they go on a huge tear and the other tankers (some of whom play each other as well as Sac and Portland) don't they are still just as likely to finish bottom 2 as they are bottom 4, which they appear to be locked into.

 

[Livinthedream]

Okay, so before they traded for Bagley, the Pistons' win percentage was .232, and since trading for Bagley, their winning percentage is .412, while Bagley is averaging double-digit points, on a career high field goal percentage, the second-highest WS/48 of his career, and is currently tied with his second-highest PER of his career. Now, I'm not prepared to put an 18% win percentage improvement all on Bagley, as there are obviously other factors involved, but I do feel like it merits the follow-up question of: how, exactly, is he dragging the team down?

Bagley is also averaging the most minutes of his career with Detroit. Part of the discussion in Detroit is that Bagley has unlocked Cade with his pick and roll and lob catching ability. Trading for Bagley is literally the only change they made at the deadline. So the correlation to the improved play is strong.

 

[coolhandluke]

I thought it was Cade that has unlocked Bagley. It works both ways, I guess. Cade is one of those guys that elevates the games of others and he is the first person that has fed Bagley properly in the post and it's no surprise they're building chemistry. Good for Bagley and the Pistons. Good for us that we got Trey Lyles and DDV for Bagley.

 

[Livinthedream]

I thought it was Cade that has unlocked Bagley. It works both ways, I guess. Cade is one of those guys that elevates the games of others and he is the first person that has fed Bagley properly in the post and it's no surprise they're building chemistry. Good for Bagley and the Pistons. Good for us that we got Trey Lyles and DDV for Bagley.

Depends on perspective. Guess the point of it all is that Bagley isn't dragging the Pistons down.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Depends on perspective. Guess the point of it all is that Bagley isn't dragging the Pistons down.

Basically. I wasn't even trying to imply that Bagley had suddenly become a good player. All I was saying that he isn't dead weight, and that, whatever it is they want him to do in Detroit, he doesn't appear to be failing at it.

 

[steelevt]

Depends on perspective. Guess the point of it all is that Bagley isn't dragging the Pistons down.

I never really thought bagley the player brought us down. Just never lived up to that #2 pick and passing on Luka. For me it was the injuries and team bagley. Sometimes it takes being humbled and a new environment for someone to thrive ala Hassan Whiteside. Seems like he’s accepting his bench role and less pressure to be a franchise player and just having fun playing the game. I’m hoping this trade and the haliburton trade being a win win for all teams and players involved.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Basically. I wasn't even trying to imply that Bagley had suddenly become a good player. All I was saying that he isn't dead weight, and that, whatever it is they want him to do in Detroit, he doesn't appear to be failing at it.

He's showing what we saw when he was healthy (and happiest) his rookie season which is great on one end of the floor, the question of sustainability is legitimate. Plenty of blame to go around on all sides if he suddenly becomes a 32+ mpg and 72+ games per year player.