whozit
Starter
Concur.
Kings Offer Contract to George Karl
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captain bill
All-Star
It's been out for a while - he quoted his own article from a while back saying that Mullin / Vivek wanted MM gone, and that PDA was just "carrying water" for the franchise.
But we also saw the Bee article saying PDA and Mullin went to Vegas to convince Vivek to fire Malone.
It sounds to me like Mullin led the charge, and PDA probably complied either to save his own skin, or because, even if he was okay with MM, he liked the chance to bring in Karl.
I'm not sure we'll ever know, but I'm glad we're moving on Karl. Fresh start now is the best we can do. Hopefully George can be the adult in the room- and with his pedigree, it's gonna be awfully hard for the team to fire him, too.
We need stability more than anything else. I like the idea of waiting for Thibs, but Vivek would have the excuse to can him if the Bulls do it first.
I dont see Karl here for more than 5 years based on age and health, but that's a key 5 years to clearing out the water from this sinking ship and setting the organization in a better direction.
kupman
Starter
1) signed DMC to long-term deal.
2)traded average players for Rudy Gay.
3) Signed Rudy Gay to long-term, more reasonable deal.
4) Fired an average coach for a well above average, former coach of the year (if this does indeed happen)
and yes
5) We are getting a new, downtown arena.
Complain and insult the FO all you want - I am pretty impressed with #1 - #5.
Now we just need back-court players and then finally a winning team.
2)traded average players for Rudy Gay.
3) Signed Rudy Gay to long-term, more reasonable deal.
4) Fired an average coach for a well above average, former coach of the year (if this does indeed happen)
and yes
5) We are getting a new, downtown arena.
Complain and insult the FO all you want - I am pretty impressed with #1 - #5.
Now we just need back-court players and then finally a winning team.
origkds
What- Me Worry?
Disregarding all of the drama, consternation, and "mismanagement" I'm a lot happier with the direction of this team than I was two years ago. We now have Cousins and Gay signed to long term contracts and George Karl as our head coach. Not to mention the minor fact that the Kings are still in Sacramento and a new arena is being built. The ride has been a little bit bumpy but stepping back and looking at the overall picture, I'd say things have improved tremendiously with our new owner.
You beat me to it Kupman.
You beat me to it Kupman.
You can't take stands when they are convenient. That's why they are stands. Imagine if it came out that D'Alessandro opposed Malone's firing and either resigned or was fired along with Malone. Given the team's struggles under Corbin I'd say he'd have a better reputation in NBA circles under that scenario than he does now.
All that said, who knows how strenuously he objected? It could be that he was just taking the same approach most of us wished for - that you at least wait until the offseason to make the change. If so, he should have been able to convince Vivek of that. I doubt we'll ever know the full story. But in my mind regardless of who pushed to fire Malone, both D'Alessandro and Ranadive take the blame for what happened since.
whozit
Starter
I was going to give my office "political" spin but I see Captain Bill beat me to it. Mine was very similar to his. I'd say two great minds, but mine is missing.
This is ridiculous. I don't care who fired Malone and who is just a mouthpiece. I don't care who the new coach of the team is anymore. I don't even care who's left on the team when the smoke clears. I just want all of these jokers to go away and take the ridiculous sideshow with them. At the end of the day I'll root for whatever players are in a Kings uniform next year and the year after that, just like I always have. I just want to get back to watching basketball and discussing basketball again not this endless parade of social media primping and behind the scenes skull and daggery. If I wanted to watch a soap opera I would watch a soap opera. At this point I think I'm just going to start my TDOS early.
Maybe some of these so-called adults that have hijacked our team will surprise me and grow up a little in the next 5 months. I know your smartphones, twitter accounts, facebook pages, et al might say otherwise but it is in fact NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!
Maybe some of these so-called adults that have hijacked our team will surprise me and grow up a little in the next 5 months. I know your smartphones, twitter accounts, facebook pages, et al might say otherwise but it is in fact NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!
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Read it again. I meant it to be FO OR owners.
Sorry, I'm sick today. I can't be bothered to get my conjunctions right.
1) Love this move. Absolutely.
2) Questioned at the time and the jury is still out for me.
3) Like it but I don't know if you can build a contender with Rudy Gay as your 2nd best player
4) This is a more than a little stretch of the truth. Malone wasn't fire for Karl. He was fired with no plan in place which left the team rudderless and evaporated all the early enthusiasm for the team until Karl essentially became a life preserver.
5) Despite the sarcasm that has swirled around this on the board lately, this really is the most important thing. The Kings are here to stay and with a new arena. I just hope they actually have a contending team sometime in the next 30 years.
Here's the worst part about the Karl hire. The FO/ownership waited until there was zero hope of making the playoffs, but plenty of time to cost the team it's lottery pick in what should be a very strong draft. It's a classic mediocrity death spiral - good enough to not get a high pick, not good enough to make the playoffs. I would have been fine with this team scrapping it's way to .500 under Malone and barely missing the playoffs, costing the Kings their draft pick. But now? We just had an all out, unintentional tank (the Kings were WORSE than the 76ers who are trying to tank under Corbin's tenure) and now we'll likely win just enough games to lose the pick by bringing in a coach that it seems many players are against. I'm glad there's a new arena on the way, because the team itself is still a complete mess with no real pathway to getting much better in the near term.
And there are times not to make stands.
If I were in PDA's shoes, making probably on the order of a million dollars a year and my boss told me to fire someone (someone with a guaranteed contract no less) that I didn't think ought to be fired and I figured that the two options were: 1) Fire the guy, or 2) Take a stand, lose my job, and see the guy get fired anyway...I'm taking option #1. I'm just going to be honest and come right out and say it. I'm taking option #1.
100% agreed on this. I like that we are presumably getting Karl. But this offseason it's going to be difficult to improve. Hopefully we'll get really lucky in the lottery or see a brilliant move or two.
I think it's more than that though. Beyond not thinking the guy ought to be fired, the issue is whether you want your name tied to what you think are terrible moves. I don't think D'Alessandro had any real tie to Malone, but if he thought this was as bad a move as the fans thought it was then he should understand it's going to get pinned to his record. Let's say next Vivek loses patience with PDA and he gets axed at the end of the season. Do you think teams will be putting him on their short list for a new GM? I don't. But the guy who assembled a roster that started out as one of the league's biggest surprises who got the axe for not going along with a terrible move? That guy I'd want to talk to. It goes both ways.
Different strokes for different folks, but my grandfather always said that your word and your reputation were two of the most important things to keep intact.
Chubbs
Starter
If they're smart, part of Karl's job would be to groom his successor.
Hopefully that's already been discussed. Karl can't be here forever, and his health will remain a ? So I would hope a succession plan is in place ASAP. Of course, that would have to wait till the offseason for Karl to hire assistants. But he better be hiring with finding an eventual head coach in mind. And not in the way the FO tried to sneak in Gentry to replace Malone, but a guy Karl mentors.
But we don't know what Karl is thinking as far as his time commitment. That would also require everyone on the same page, and that's a bit far fetched. Karl may be thinking he's going to ride Boogie to the coaching wins record. And then put it out of reach. I'm not sure of the exact number he needs.
But that's a way to have stability when hiring an older coach.
63 though isn't that old. He could have a decade left. But there's no guarantees.
Hubie Brown won coach of the year at age 70.
I'm completely torn. Above all else I want Boogie to feel like things are back on the right track. But I also realize there just flat out isn't enough talent on this roster to be a true contender. Cauley-Stein would be a nice boost for this Kings team next season. Porzingas or Turner could be valuable contributors in a few years. And with some real ping pong ball luck guys like Towns, or Okafor or Mudiay or Russell could be stars. Or maybe you take the 9th pick and trade down, picking up a veteran and still adding a backup PG, a wing shooter or stretch 4.
There's a lot of value to be had in keeping that pick and losing next year's. Especially now that a winning season is likely out of reach. Best of both worlds would be a few more losses as the team adapts and then a strong finish to the season that leaves the Kings in the 8th or 9th slot giving Cuz & co hope for the future while getting one more bite at the lottery apple.
I see both sides. I think I would have tried to make the distinction that while it was my job to fire them, it wasn't my decision.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
It looks like with the hiring of Karl there is finally an adult in the room. Now Vivek needs to proclaim that he and everyone else is deferring to Karl and his basketball acumen. Vivek needs to make it clear that he is going to learn from Karl, not the other way around.
I'm really sick of ownership and the management of this team. It's been a pathetic death spiral of awful decision making. I sure hope Vivek can have some internal reflection on the incredibly bad moves he's made with this team so that he can prevent such incompetence from occurring in the future.
I'm really sick of ownership and the management of this team. It's been a pathetic death spiral of awful decision making. I sure hope Vivek can have some internal reflection on the incredibly bad moves he's made with this team so that he can prevent such incompetence from occurring in the future.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Sorry, I'm sick today. I can't be bothered to get my conjunctions right.
Maybe your suffering from conjunctivitis. I'll start digging a hole....
Glenn
Hall of Famer
It's up to Vivek, for sure. Will he turn over his big shiny toy to people who know how to drive them?
9x1x6
Bench
Stop using social media and paying attention to ESPN bs. It'll be just like 10 years ago.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
heard that on the radio. what a schmuck. once a generation dominant center and he'd choose karl who is only good for how many years before he'll need to retire? red needs to be the one who gets the boot. can't stand his shifty mouthpiece ass.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
As was linked in another thread, if what Bucher said is true, we could have quite an issue brewing between Cuz and this FO/owner.
What Bucher said was after the firing of Malone, Cuz said if we're going to make a change I want a veteran coach, and the two names which came up were Mark Jackson and Karl. Cuz was then told they would not hire a veteran coach and that Karl specifically was not a good fit for Cuz's style and if waiting until the summer there'd be a healthier pool of candidates. Then of course Cuz found out that we are looking to hire Karl, the exact guy he was told was not a good fit. Cuz is now wondering who he works for.
It's Bucher, who knows if it's true or not but it seems very believable to me when combined with the rumors that Fegan is most concerned not about Karl but rather mixed messages and quickly changing plans of this organization. I'll add, what is also ridiculous when considering this is Malone was fired due to his style, PDA wanted something more up-tempo, more running, said it a number of times and Karl obviously fits that style. Yet right after firing Malone for not playing that style and telling us how important more pace would be, Cuz was told Karl doesn't fit his style, which is the same as saying up-tempo basketball doesn't fit Cuz's style....even though his coach was just canned for not pushing that style. So basically:
1) Fire Malone for not employing an up-tempo system
2) Tell fan base how important pace is and we want to get up and down the court more
3) Tell Cuz the best available option to employ that style doesn't fit his game
4) Go on KHTK and double down, we need more pace, while Cuz is wondering why he's been told the best coach to employ that style doesn't fit his game
5) Tell Cuz we'll wait until the summer to hire next coach while telling fans Corbin is our guy and we're 100% behind him
6) Do a complete 180 and hire Karl, the guy who Cuz was told doesn't fit his style
7) Blame our incompetence on Cuz and Fegan through leaks to the media
8) Get Napear to say over the radio waves if Cuz has a problem with Karl, that's what trades are for
Sounds about right.
I can't believe what I'm hearing. This is truly insane. I hope others see the severe incompetence and contradictions in what apparently might have transpired.
What Bucher said was after the firing of Malone, Cuz said if we're going to make a change I want a veteran coach, and the two names which came up were Mark Jackson and Karl. Cuz was then told they would not hire a veteran coach and that Karl specifically was not a good fit for Cuz's style and if waiting until the summer there'd be a healthier pool of candidates. Then of course Cuz found out that we are looking to hire Karl, the exact guy he was told was not a good fit. Cuz is now wondering who he works for.
It's Bucher, who knows if it's true or not but it seems very believable to me when combined with the rumors that Fegan is most concerned not about Karl but rather mixed messages and quickly changing plans of this organization. I'll add, what is also ridiculous when considering this is Malone was fired due to his style, PDA wanted something more up-tempo, more running, said it a number of times and Karl obviously fits that style. Yet right after firing Malone for not playing that style and telling us how important more pace would be, Cuz was told Karl doesn't fit his style, which is the same as saying up-tempo basketball doesn't fit Cuz's style....even though his coach was just canned for not pushing that style. So basically:
1) Fire Malone for not employing an up-tempo system
2) Tell fan base how important pace is and we want to get up and down the court more
3) Tell Cuz the best available option to employ that style doesn't fit his game
4) Go on KHTK and double down, we need more pace, while Cuz is wondering why he's been told the best coach to employ that style doesn't fit his game
5) Tell Cuz we'll wait until the summer to hire next coach while telling fans Corbin is our guy and we're 100% behind him
6) Do a complete 180 and hire Karl, the guy who Cuz was told doesn't fit his style
7) Blame our incompetence on Cuz and Fegan through leaks to the media
8) Get Napear to say over the radio waves if Cuz has a problem with Karl, that's what trades are for
Sounds about right.
I can't believe what I'm hearing. This is truly insane. I hope others see the severe incompetence and contradictions in what apparently might have transpired.
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ParniValjak
All-Star
One possible positive for the whole Karl and style of play is that in Seattle his teams were defensively minded teams and he used Payton in a way that was utilizing his skills in the best way possible (i.e. posting him up a lot).
He might look at Cuz in a similar way and say, I am posting this guy up because he is an unguardable beast down there.
He might look at Cuz in a similar way and say, I am posting this guy up because he is an unguardable beast down there.
In the end, defense still needs to be a focus. Karl's success might come from retaining defense and getting more out of the other pieces of the squad that have been doing nothing rather than any relationship tips for Cousins.
Just to remind folks and any Kings people reading, 7 out of the top 10 teams in PACE are currently out of the playoffs. And defense? 9 out of the top 10 teams in defensive rating are currently in the playoffs.
Just to remind folks and any Kings people reading, 7 out of the top 10 teams in PACE are currently out of the playoffs. And defense? 9 out of the top 10 teams in defensive rating are currently in the playoffs.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Wow. What in the world is going on with this organization?
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