Kings Offer Contract to George Karl

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chubbs said:
I'm starting to question why Karl would even want to be here. He has to be a tad desperate to voluntarily come here.

He must not think there will be many openings this summer. Surely he can do better than this.
Click to expand...

To George Karl Sacramento is surely better than Milwaukee since he's already been head coach in that NBA basketball purgatory. George Karl is an NBA lifer, not looking for glitz, but just one more fantastic rodeo ride. He craves the glory, coaching wins no matter where they come from, currently ranking 6th all time. Popovich sure found neat slice of heaven in small market, little sizzle, backwater San Antonio for past two decades of compiling multiple championships. Congrats tonight Coach Pop for getting NBA victory number 1000.
 
rainmaker said:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...inning-from-puzzling-kings-front-office-moves
Click to expand...

Thanks.

So, the hard part here is that as much as Bucher can't be trusted as a source, for whatever reason there seems to be some relationship between him and Cousins. I remember this piece came out a while back, and I was pretty surprised Cousins gave him the access. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-cousins-strong-willed-maturing-misunderstood

But I don't know if I buy the fact that the Kings would tell him Karl doesn't fit his style, or that they would go against Karl in any way when multiple reports suggested that we were interested in Karl from the moment Malone was fired.

So much garbage to sift through. I think we can say with some certainly that PDA was always in Karl's corner. Maybe it was Vivek or Mullin feeding Cousins lines. Who knows. Or maybe Bucher is making it all up.
 
NewArena said:
he challenged Carmelo to get double doubles often, and get his butt deeper into the paint.
Click to expand...

IIRC, he gave Melo some arbitrary rule where Melo has to take x amount of shots inside before he could pursue outside shots. They had arguments (as most close relationships have), but Melo was far better for it. Under Karl, Melo's rep went from a gifted wing who had poor shot selection (which is a lot of guys in the NBA) to a player that was regarded as being the most complete offensive player in the NBA. How much of it was Melo and how much was Karl? Don't know. But if Phil gets all this credit for leading Jordan and Pippen, I think Karl should get a lot for a player that has/had a history of being mercurial (much like Cousins).
 
Karl adjusts his style to personnel. The Carmelo Nuggets were a slower paced, good defensive team with Camby and Kenyon Martin both in their primes. After that his stupidly deep team post melo ran up and down because they had no go to scorers in the half court and Lawson, Faried and Igoudala with shooters around them. Karl will get the best out of Cousins and Gay my question is what can he get out of the rest of the roster. Guys like Sessions, JT, Landry, Casspi, Stauskas, Ray. I'm certain his offensive schemes will pay huge dividends for Ben too to emerge as that 3rd scorer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lwc
Bosnian Diehard said:
People assume Karl is an up-tempo style of coach but to me, it looks like he is more of a guy who will adjust his coaching style based on his personnel. I wouldn't be surprised to see Karl slow the pace down here.
Click to expand...

He does whatever it takes to win as many games as he can...and has the know how and versatility to be creative with different rosters and players.

We will be focused and dangerous next season... and will make the playoffs
 
jcwkings said:
Karl adjusts his style to personnel. The Carmelo Nuggets were a slower paced, good defensive team with Camby and Kenyon Martin both in their primes. After that his stupidly deep team post melo ran up and down because they had no go to scorers in the half court and Lawson, Faried and Igoudala with shooters around them. Karl will get the best out of Cousins and Gay my question is what can he get out of the rest of the roster. Guys like Sessions, JT, Landry, Casspi, Stauskas, Ray. I'm certain his offensive schemes will pay huge dividends for Ben too to emerge as that 3rd scorer.
Click to expand...

One thing that might be going under the radar with bringing in Karl, is the potential very positive effect for Rudy Gay. I have a feeling he's going to get the best out of Rudy
 
I'm sure someone has already mentioned this, but if not -- it seems to be the ultimate coincidence that the coach that ran the show during the SuperSonics last great run will now be coaching the team that came oh so close to relocating there. Life certainly has a strange sense of humor sometimes.
 
Chubbs said:
I'm starting to question why Karl would even want to be here. He has to be a tad desperate to voluntarily come here.

He must not think there will be many openings this summer. Surely he can do better than this.
Click to expand...

On the Orlando forum they said he wanted to be on the West coast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lwc
jcwkings said:
Karl adjusts his style to personnel. The Carmelo Nuggets were a slower paced, good defensive team with Camby and Kenyon Martin both in their primes. After that his stupidly deep team post melo ran up and down because they had no go to scorers in the half court and Lawson, Faried and Igoudala with shooters around them. Karl will get the best out of Cousins and Gay my question is what can he get out of the rest of the roster. Guys like Sessions, JT, Landry, Casspi, Stauskas, Ray. I'm certain his offensive schemes will pay huge dividends for Ben too to emerge as that 3rd scorer.
Click to expand...

Well,I don't know how much slower he actually ran things at any point in Denver. He was the rodent's wet dream.

Pace during DEN years:

2012-13 DEN 2nd of 30
2011-12 DEN 2nd of 30
2010-11 DEN 2nd of 30
2009-10 DEN 5th of 30
2008-09 DEN 6th of 30
2007-08 DEN 1st of 30
2006-07 DEN 2nd of 30
2005-06 DEN 2nd of 30
2004-05 DEN 4th of 30 (took over midseason)

Now what I think would be jsut cool is for the rodent to get his comeuppance, to not realize that Denver Karl was not always George Karl. In Milwaulkee his pace ranged form 10th to 22nd. Solidly middle of the road. In Seattle, he had 2 seasons ranked 3rd, and then 5 seasons ranked in the 14th to 19th range.

If we get Denver George, that is NOT a good or reasonable fit for a big center. It wastes them, tires them out. But there have been other Georges. I would be amused to see reasonable pace George show up and leave whiskered little noses twitching in dismay throughout the Sleep Train rat warrens.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
One thing that might be going under the radar with bringing in Karl, is the potential very positive effect for Rudy Gay. I have a feeling he's going to get the best out of Rudy
Click to expand...

Perhaps, you can draw a line from Rudy to Melo, but Rudy's penchant for the midrange jumper as a core element may not work. In fact really, if George Karl's normal post and three system is brought in, both Collison and Rudy's core midrange pullups will be a question.
 
jcwkings said:
Karl adjusts his style to personnel.
Click to expand...
You're right and I think PDA might be displeased at some point. Excuse my posting of Karl articles but I'm sifting through some material on him right now and this applies to the conversation.

He’s pigeonholed now as someone whose offensive philosophy amounts to “outrun an opponent until they can’t breathe,” but that’s not really accurate. Karl had very little history as a proprietor of a fast-paced offense until arriving in Denver, where he correctly concluded a speed game would work best with young, athletic rosters playing in mile-high air. We remember Karl’s Seattle teams as helter-skelter transition machines, but in only two of Karl’s seven seasons there did the Sonics rank above the league average in possessions per game — i.e., pace. Those Seattle teams pioneered an aggressive style of trapping, chaotic defense that was ahead of its time, with zone-ish principles and heavy switching that made it difficult for offenses accustomed to dictating the terms of engagement. The Sonics ran opportunistically off turnovers their defense created, but with the exception of those two fast-paced seasons, they were not a Denver-style “run at all costs” bunch.

And Karl’s Milwaukee teams were mostly slowpokes, and yet still managed to rank in the top 10 in points per possession in each of his five seasons there.

Point is: Karl, on offense, is adaptable. Just because the Nuggets ran like all hell does not mean Karl would be a bad bit for snails like the Nets and Grizzlies. And while Karl’s Denver offenses looked almost simplistic, they gradually gained the excited admiration of the NBA’s more analytics-oriented front-office folks. Karl understood that his offense generated the most efficient shots available — shots at the rim, and 3-pointers — and on an even deeper level, he was early in understanding that NBA defenses were evolving in ways that made scoring in the half-court a more difficult job. He was also ahead of the curve in getting that post-up plays, while appealing in a traditional way, are a very low-efficiency strategy without really good post-up players to run them.

I'm not at all convinced we'll see something like we saw in Den under him, not with Cuz here. He's a smart guy, a creative guy and I don't see him taking the rock out of Cuz's hands. That's foolish. You're not going to get an efficient offense and maximize Cuz by having him jacking up jumpers non-stop like we've seen under Corbin. And to maximize spacing, which Karl is very good at would require getting Cuz in the post and spacing off him. What I expect is Cuz to be the focus of our offense much as Webber was under Rick, with better spacing and movement off Cuz than we've seen.

I fully expect some roster movement this summer and the acquisition of some 3&D guys to space off Cuz. The corner 3 will be important. I'd also hope, and he's valued them before, that he'd want a defensive presence next to Cuz, something like a Kenyon Martin or even going back to Irvin Johnson. Actually, Karl has almost always had a pretty good defensive big and a number of times multiple, guys who'll do the dirty work. My guess is Oct 1st, Ben is still here and DC isn't. DC doesn't strike me as his type of starting PG. With Karl I could see us going hard after Dragic.
 
9x1x6 said:
Stop using social media and paying attention to ESPN bs. It'll be just like 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

If only that were actually true. You know as well as I do that this crap is inescapable. I certainly try, though I'm afraid Thomas Wolfe was right. That place exists now only as time and memory, soon to be forgotten.

“You can't go back home to your family, back home to your childhood, back home to romantic love, back home to a young man's dreams of glory and of fame, back home to exile, to escape to Europe and some foreign land, back home to lyricism, to singing just for singing's sake, back home to aestheticism, to one's youthful idea of 'the artist' and the all-sufficiency of 'art' and 'beauty' and 'love,' back home to the ivory tower, back home to places in the country, to the cottage in Bermude, away from all the strife and conflict of the world, back home to the father you have lost and have been looking for, back home to someone who can help you, save you, ease the burden for you, back home to the old forms and systems of things which once seemed everlasting but which are changing all the time--back home to the escapes of Time and Memory.”
 
rainmaker said:
You're right and I think PDA might be displeased at some point. Excuse my posting of Karl articles but I'm sifting through some material on him right now and this applies to the conversation.

He’s pigeonholed now as someone whose offensive philosophy amounts to “outrun an opponent until they can’t breathe,” but that’s not really accurate. Karl had very little history as a proprietor of a fast-paced offense until arriving in Denver, where he correctly concluded a speed game would work best with young, athletic rosters playing in mile-high air. We remember Karl’s Seattle teams as helter-skelter transition machines, but in only two of Karl’s seven seasons there did the Sonics rank above the league average in possessions per game — i.e., pace. Those Seattle teams pioneered an aggressive style of trapping, chaotic defense that was ahead of its time, with zone-ish principles and heavy switching that made it difficult for offenses accustomed to dictating the terms of engagement. The Sonics ran opportunistically off turnovers their defense created, but with the exception of those two fast-paced seasons, they were not a Denver-style “run at all costs” bunch.

And Karl’s Milwaukee teams were mostly slowpokes, and yet still managed to rank in the top 10 in points per possession in each of his five seasons there.

Point is: Karl, on offense, is adaptable. Just because the Nuggets ran like all hell does not mean Karl would be a bad bit for snails like the Nets and Grizzlies. And while Karl’s Denver offenses looked almost simplistic, they gradually gained the excited admiration of the NBA’s more analytics-oriented front-office folks. Karl understood that his offense generated the most efficient shots available — shots at the rim, and 3-pointers — and on an even deeper level, he was early in understanding that NBA defenses were evolving in ways that made scoring in the half-court a more difficult job. He was also ahead of the curve in getting that post-up plays, while appealing in a traditional way, are a very low-efficiency strategy without really good post-up players to run them.

I'm not at all convinced we'll see something like we saw in Den under him, not with Cuz here. He's a smart guy, a creative guy and I don't see him taking the rock out of Cuz's hands. That's foolish. You're not going to get an efficient offense and maximize Cuz by having him jacking up jumpers non-stop like we've seen under Corbin. And to maximize spacing, which Karl is very good at would require getting Cuz in the post and spacing off him. What I expect is Cuz to be the focus of our offense much as Webber was under Rick, with better spacing and movement off Cuz than we've seen.

I fully expect some roster movement this summer and the acquisition of some 3&D guys to space off Cuz. The corner 3 will be important. I'd also hope, and he's valued them before, that he'd want a defensive presence next to Cuz, something like a Kenyon Martin or even going back to Irvin Johnson. Actually, Karl has almost always had a pretty good defensive big and a number of times multiple, guys who'll do the dirty work. My guess is Oct 1st, Ben is still here and DC isn't. DC doesn't strike me as his type of starting PG. With Karl I could see us going hard after Dragic.
Click to expand...

Certainly, one big point in the Karl adjusts his strategy to his team situation argument can be the simply fact that playing fastpaced transition ball while at a high altitude can simply exhaust a visiting team. That all said, I'm not so sure that Karl's freeflowing offensive system is perfect for a Kings team that has a tendency to implode whenever it's given the reigns on offense.
 
Demarcus Cousins will be UNLEASHED to his full potential under George Karl. That, is scary.
# TheRealBeastmode #CantStopGodsPlan #BoogieMonster
 
Bricklayer said:
Perhaps, you can draw a line from Rudy to Melo, but Rudy's penchant for the midrange jumper as a core element may not work. In fact really, if George Karl's normal post and three system is brought in, both Collison and Rudy's core midrange pullups will be a question.
Click to expand...

Good point. This year, before things went entirely boobies up, Rudy and Collison both showed an improved ability to shoot the three, which could mean good things in Karl's system. Rudy, like Carmelo, is also a capable post player, something that could help him under Karl.

Pretty sure Ben McLemore is the prototypically perfect player for Karl's system, which his (occassional) ability to shoot and be a force in transition (on both sides of the floor). I wouldn't be surprised if Ben suddenly exploded under Furious George.

The one guy who I can actually see really benefiting from the George Karl system is Omri Casspi. His driving ability and overall hustle will fit in perfectly with the whole "attack the rim at all costs" approach.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lwc
rainmaker said:
You're right and I think PDA might be displeased at some point. Excuse my posting of Karl articles but I'm sifting through some material on him right now and this applies to the conversation.

He’s pigeonholed now as someone whose offensive philosophy amounts to “outrun an opponent until they can’t breathe,” but that’s not really accurate. Karl had very little history as a proprietor of a fast-paced offense until arriving in Denver, where he correctly concluded a speed game would work best with young, athletic rosters playing in mile-high air. We remember Karl’s Seattle teams as helter-skelter transition machines, but in only two of Karl’s seven seasons there did the Sonics rank above the league average in possessions per game — i.e., pace. Those Seattle teams pioneered an aggressive style of trapping, chaotic defense that was ahead of its time, with zone-ish principles and heavy switching that made it difficult for offenses accustomed to dictating the terms of engagement. The Sonics ran opportunistically off turnovers their defense created, but with the exception of those two fast-paced seasons, they were not a Denver-style “run at all costs” bunch.

And Karl’s Milwaukee teams were mostly slowpokes, and yet still managed to rank in the top 10 in points per possession in each of his five seasons there.

Point is: Karl, on offense, is adaptable. Just because the Nuggets ran like all hell does not mean Karl would be a bad bit for snails like the Nets and Grizzlies. And while Karl’s Denver offenses looked almost simplistic, they gradually gained the excited admiration of the NBA’s more analytics-oriented front-office folks. Karl understood that his offense generated the most efficient shots available — shots at the rim, and 3-pointers — and on an even deeper level, he was early in understanding that NBA defenses were evolving in ways that made scoring in the half-court a more difficult job. He was also ahead of the curve in getting that post-up plays, while appealing in a traditional way, are a very low-efficiency strategy without really good post-up players to run them.

I'm not at all convinced we'll see something like we saw in Den under him, not with Cuz here. He's a smart guy, a creative guy and I don't see him taking the rock out of Cuz's hands. That's foolish. You're not going to get an efficient offense and maximize Cuz by having him jacking up jumpers non-stop like we've seen under Corbin. And to maximize spacing, which Karl is very good at would require getting Cuz in the post and spacing off him. What I expect is Cuz to be the focus of our offense much as Webber was under Rick, with better spacing and movement off Cuz than we've seen.

I fully expect some roster movement this summer and the acquisition of some 3&D guys to space off Cuz. The corner 3 will be important. I'd also hope, and he's valued them before, that he'd want a defensive presence next to Cuz, something like a Kenyon Martin or even going back to Irvin Johnson. Actually, Karl has almost always had a pretty good defensive big and a number of times multiple, guys who'll do the dirty work. My guess is Oct 1st, Ben is still here and DC isn't. DC doesn't strike me as his type of starting PG. With Karl I could see us going hard after Dragic.
Click to expand...

You don't win 1100 games at a 60% clip if you're not able to adapt to the personal that you're given on the floor. I don't see him struggling at all at using Cuz properly and def. agree that he'll be actively involved in revamping this roster around him.

As for Karl not winning the big one or in the playoffs, it's not exactly his fault he never got the opportunity to coach a 10-15 all-time great, with Payton-Kemp probably being the best duo he coached. Getting past Hakeem's Rockets, Stockton/Malone Jazz and then the Spurs, and Lakers in the 00's was a tall order for anyone with the rosters he was given. And as history has shown us, it's really damn hard to win a title without at least 1 top 20 guy with most championship rosters having multiple top 40-50 guys on them.

There's no doubt in my mind that if Karl got to coach Duncan for 15 years, that he'd have a couple titles. Maybe not 4, but he's certainly a championship caliber coach.
 
I'm not sure why we need to try to find a player in the past who Karl coached, who is like anyone on our current roster? You're not going to find another point guard who is just like Gary Payton....and neither another post player like Cousins. So what?

Rick Adelman had never coached a power forward with Chris Webber's skillset....until they happened to be on the same team and their talents came together. In other words, a good experienced coach should have no problem getting the most out of a talented player, if they're both fully focused on doing whatever it takes to win
 
Tetsujin said:
Certainly, one big point in the Karl adjusts his strategy to his team situation argument can be the simply fact that playing fastpaced transition ball while at a high altitude can simply exhaust a visiting team. That all said, I'm not so sure that Karl's freeflowing offensive system is perfect for a Kings team that has a tendency to implode whenever it's given the reigns on offense.
Click to expand...

He won the western conference in Seattle and was a contender every season there... and they didn't use a "free flowing" or "run n gun" system, with that particular roster
 
Bricklayer said:
Well,I don't know how much slower he actually ran things at any point in Denver. He was the rodent's wet dream.

Pace during DEN years:

2012-13 DEN 2nd of 30
2011-12 DEN 2nd of 30
2010-11 DEN 2nd of 30
2009-10 DEN 5th of 30
2008-09 DEN 6th of 30
2007-08 DEN 1st of 30
2006-07 DEN 2nd of 30
2005-06 DEN 2nd of 30
2004-05 DEN 4th of 30 (took over midseason)

Now what I think would be jsut cool is for the rodent to get his comeuppance, to not realize that Denver Karl was not always George Karl. In Milwaulkee his pace ranged form 10th to 22nd. Solidly middle of the road. In Seattle, he had 2 seasons ranked 3rd, and then 5 seasons ranked in the 14th to 19th range.

If we get Denver George, that is NOT a good or reasonable fit for a big center. It wastes them, tires them out. But there have been other Georges. I would be amused to see reasonable pace George show up and leave whiskered little noses twitching in dismay throughout the Sleep Train rat warrens.
Click to expand...

The flaw is also we are talking about Denver the mile high city. They have mostly been a running team due to the perceived or real advantage that teams can't keep up in their air.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
I'm not sure why we need to try to find a player in the past who Karl coached, who is like anyone on our current roster? You're not going to find another point guard who is just like Gary Payton....and neither another post player like Cousins. So what?

Rick Adelman had never coached a power forward with Chris Webber's skillset....until they happened to be on the same team and their talents came together. In other words, a good experienced coach should have no problem getting the most out of a talented player, if they're both fully focused on doing whatever it takes to win
Click to expand...

And people wondered what Phil was going to do with Shaq in the triangle.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
He won the western conference in Seattle and was a contender every season there... and they didn't use a "free flowing" or "run n gun" system, with that particular roster
Click to expand...

It was rather free-flowing except he had an insanely talent group of offensive players, perhaps the best defensive point guard in NBA history (with another fantastic defender backing him up),　Shawn Kemp wasn't grossly overweight yet, an all of his players were either (a) experienced and smart, (b) all-stars, or (c) young guys relegated to glorified ballboys. I mean, when your starting line-up is Shawn Kemp/ Ervin Johnson (who barely played because Sam Perkins was the sixth man)/ Detlef Schrempf/ Hersey Hawkins/ Gary Payton in his prime, you'd be hardpressed to find a system that couldn't work.
 
Tetsujin said:
The Glove is still the Glove (i.e. a crazy person)

Click to expand...

he had some really good things to say outside of this "gloves off" segment.

he said he played with a fiery attitude and really like Boogie's demeanor because it reminds him of himself.
he also said he guarantees Boogie will play well for George Karl.
and said he formed a father/son bond with Karl
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

captain bill
Amick: Kings in the “Danger Zone” with Fox Free Agency
Replies
17
Views
1K
SacTownKid
SacTownKid
Caccia
Welcome Skal Labissière
Replies
20
Views
2K
Caccia
Caccia
S
[Trade] New Blockbuster Three-Team Trade Proposal Sends Domantas Sabonis to Portland, Hawks Add 3&D Wing
Replies
2
Views
152
Capt. Factorial
Capt. Factorial
S
[Trade] Kings Overhaul Roster in Bold Trade Proposal with Magic
Replies
9
Views
344
kingsboi
kingsboi
Mr. S£im Citrus
  • Locked
  • Poll Poll
[Game] 76/82: Kings @ Wizards 02 APR 2025, 4pm PT/7pm ET
7 8 9
Replies
243
Views
8K
Joshyjosh31
J
Back
Top