Kings-Nuggets discuss Watson for Bonzi Deal (merged)
- Thread starter zeke04
- Start date
I think the key is getting Nene. If the Kings can get Nene in a Watson deal they will be relatively set at the 4/5 -- assuming Nene fulfills his potential as a lane clogger. Then they could use Bibby to upgrade another position -- for example as part of a trade for Ray Allen. A Watson/Allen/Artest/Nene/Miller lineup with Martin, Garcia and SAR off the bench would be extremely good defensively and offensively, inside and outside. They'd have to be taken seriously.
Kill me now. Why would you want to deal Mike for the aging, over paid, Ray "I'll only carry a team in a contract year" Allen? I'd rather just keep Mike, he is a fan favorite(well not on this board I guess), is loyal to Sacramento, still young, clutch, a good passer(he'd have more assists if it weren't for the princeton). Where's the loyalty? This is supposed to be about Leonard/Watson, not trading Mike. That doesn't get us anywhere.
Anyways, I think Watson is the perfect type of reserve for us. He can play 2 or 3 minutes at OG, give Mike 18 minutes of rest, play defense, and generally be a 6th man. He's a decent shooter, a good passer, a very good defender, and a good teammate. Voshon can give us 10-15 minutes off the bench and hit 3s. That way Mike can play 30 minutes a game and come in for the 4th quarter rested(Watson), Kevin can get experience without being exhausted(yeah he's young, but if he ends up playing 40 minutes a game... Leonard). Our backcourt rotation would basically be set:
Mike: 30 minutes/ Earl Watson: 18 minutes
Kevin: 30 minutes/ Leonard:15 minutes/ Garcia/Watson: 2 minutes
We would be fine with that, get a decent post defender/shotblocker and some athleticism at the 4 and we would be a very good team.
Last edited:
Er, do you really want to bring up won/loss records while defending Bibby? Also, 24.8 points (11th in the league) on 44%/39% 3PG is pretty awesome. And he's 30, not 31.
Anyway, in order to avoid splintering discussion I will just say that Watson is good enough to start, which is one big reason why this deal would be good for the Kings. If the right deal came along for Bibby, whether it was for Ray Allen, Paul Pierce or, please god, Kevin Garnett, the Kings could make the deal.
Anyway, in order to avoid splintering discussion I will just say that Watson is good enough to start, which is one big reason why this deal would be good for the Kings. If the right deal came along for Bibby, whether it was for Ray Allen, Paul Pierce or, please god, Kevin Garnett, the Kings could make the deal.
I love Bibby, but agreed with 'brans, and Ray being 30 doesn't mean much.
Now this:
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_3527591
Now this:
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_3527591
This is by far the most interesting trade thread I've seen in a while. The issues at hand are so obvious but the answer is not. I tend to agree more with Brick on this issue...we need to find a way to get Nene because Bonzi is worth much much more than Watson, who I would like to see backing up Mike.
As much as I agree that Bonzi + Ron would make an absolutely destructive combo, there is no telling what might blow up if those two heads bash. And the fact that Bonzi's contract is up + Kevin Martin's uprising is the only reason why this is even being considered.
Kenny has a HUGE contract and is probably close to the peak of his tradeability, and the simple fact that he only shows up when starting means he gets my vote for the boot. If there was any way that we could drop his contract I would be all for it. Maybe a 3 team deal that would get us what we need is out there. I don't pay enough attention to other teams to propose that idea, but maybe someone on this thread can.
Key Needs:
Backup PG
Starting PF/C that is a shotblocker
Get rid of Hart
Get rid of at least one of "the three" big contracts
That means from Denver we need Watson and Nene. Period.
Both teams have to view Nene as a risk because there is no telling how he will return from this injury.
Trading Bonzi and Hart would be worth Watson and Nene, and it works with the CBA. However, I don't see Denver doing this unless if they really feel that Bonzi is that player they need, and that Nene will not be the same player as he was. But we can always cross our fingers
.
As much as I agree that Bonzi + Ron would make an absolutely destructive combo, there is no telling what might blow up if those two heads bash. And the fact that Bonzi's contract is up + Kevin Martin's uprising is the only reason why this is even being considered.
Kenny has a HUGE contract and is probably close to the peak of his tradeability, and the simple fact that he only shows up when starting means he gets my vote for the boot. If there was any way that we could drop his contract I would be all for it. Maybe a 3 team deal that would get us what we need is out there. I don't pay enough attention to other teams to propose that idea, but maybe someone on this thread can.
Key Needs:
Backup PG
Starting PF/C that is a shotblocker
Get rid of Hart
Get rid of at least one of "the three" big contracts
That means from Denver we need Watson and Nene. Period.
Both teams have to view Nene as a risk because there is no telling how he will return from this injury.
Trading Bonzi and Hart would be worth Watson and Nene, and it works with the CBA. However, I don't see Denver doing this unless if they really feel that Bonzi is that player they need, and that Nene will not be the same player as he was. But we can always cross our fingers
.
A couple points and then a trade proposal
While it's true that sports fans tend to have a very short term memory, I'm certainly not forgetting that Bonzi was clearly the Kings best player in the early part of this season. That being said, I do have a number of questions (of varying degrees of concern) about Bonzi that might justify trading him before the deadline.
1) How well will Wells and Artest play together? I like the toughness that they bring at the wing positions and I love the attitude that they could instill in the rest of a heretofore soft team. But neither is a pure shooter. Artest isn't a bad perimeter player, but Bonzi can be pretty bad from outside.
Both often have a clear advantage taking their man inside. That's fine when you have jump shooting big men and one G/F down low, but how about two that need the ball in the post? This is actually the least of my concerns as I'm sure Adelman would find a way to incorporate both into the offense.
2) Is Bonzi willing to re-sign with the Kings? This is a major concern, as I don't want to see us lose another starting shooting guard for nothing.
3) If he DOES re-sign, will it be for a reasonable contract? This is a minor concern for me, but it would make me wonder if the Maloofs would continue to allow Petrie use of the MLE, LLE, veterans minimum etc to add players if it means heading further into luxury-tax land. Considering the team's current record, I'd doubt it. I'd certainly want more bang for my buck if I was a team owner.
4) Is Bonzi the longterm solution at SG? That's what a deal in the summer would signify. For those of you that are afraid that Martin isn't ready to be a full-time starter now, do you think he will EVER fill that role? Wells' problems with teams (Memphis more than Portland) often revolve around the way he's used in the offense/playing time. I can't see him signing a big deal this summer and then not minding if Martin eats away at his minutes or starts in front of him. On the flip side, I can't see Kevin wanting to re-sign after his rookie deal if Bonzi is still signed for a couple more years and still starting. Sooner or later, the Kings will have to move or lose one of them.
5) Are Bonzi's hamstring injuries a freak thing, or a signal that he's breaking down? I'm not too concerned that it's the latter, but it's something worth thinking about.
Depending on what Geoff thinks the answers to those questions are, he must decide what to do with Wells in the next few days.
If he decides to move him, here's a three team deal that works financially:
Orlando trades Steve Francis to the Nuggets.
Denver trades Nene and Watson to the Kings and Lenard to the Magic
Sacramento trades Bonzi and a future 1st to the Magic.
The Nuggets get the two guard that they supposedly covet (Francis is a better fit for them than Wells IMO), the Kings get a good, if somewhat overpaid backup PG and a young big man with potential and the Magic clear Francis' contract off the books while getting a future draft pick. The Magic might well demand THIS year's pick. As long as it was top 3 protected, I'd probably be OK with that too.
If the Magic like what Bonzi brings, they can always try to resign him, or else they continue their current trend of building around Howard with young players while trimming their salary cap to make a splash in free agency.
One problem for the Kings is that they ostensibly strengthen a conference rival. I'm no Francis fan, but he IS talented, and the Nuggets would acquire him for basically a backup PG since Nene and Lenard haven't played due to injury.
The other concern I'd have is that Nene is still a gamble. Most importantly, he's a free agent and no guarantee to re-sign with the Kings. Losing him would mean trading Wells and a future 1st for Watson. Better than losing Wells for nothing I suppose, but not by much. Secondly, Nene's coming off knee surgery and still has yet to break out as a real player in this league.
Still, depending on the answers to the questions I posed above, I wouldn't discount such a deal before the deadline.
While it's true that sports fans tend to have a very short term memory, I'm certainly not forgetting that Bonzi was clearly the Kings best player in the early part of this season. That being said, I do have a number of questions (of varying degrees of concern) about Bonzi that might justify trading him before the deadline.
1) How well will Wells and Artest play together? I like the toughness that they bring at the wing positions and I love the attitude that they could instill in the rest of a heretofore soft team. But neither is a pure shooter. Artest isn't a bad perimeter player, but Bonzi can be pretty bad from outside.
Both often have a clear advantage taking their man inside. That's fine when you have jump shooting big men and one G/F down low, but how about two that need the ball in the post? This is actually the least of my concerns as I'm sure Adelman would find a way to incorporate both into the offense.
2) Is Bonzi willing to re-sign with the Kings? This is a major concern, as I don't want to see us lose another starting shooting guard for nothing.
3) If he DOES re-sign, will it be for a reasonable contract? This is a minor concern for me, but it would make me wonder if the Maloofs would continue to allow Petrie use of the MLE, LLE, veterans minimum etc to add players if it means heading further into luxury-tax land. Considering the team's current record, I'd doubt it. I'd certainly want more bang for my buck if I was a team owner.
4) Is Bonzi the longterm solution at SG? That's what a deal in the summer would signify. For those of you that are afraid that Martin isn't ready to be a full-time starter now, do you think he will EVER fill that role? Wells' problems with teams (Memphis more than Portland) often revolve around the way he's used in the offense/playing time. I can't see him signing a big deal this summer and then not minding if Martin eats away at his minutes or starts in front of him. On the flip side, I can't see Kevin wanting to re-sign after his rookie deal if Bonzi is still signed for a couple more years and still starting. Sooner or later, the Kings will have to move or lose one of them.
5) Are Bonzi's hamstring injuries a freak thing, or a signal that he's breaking down? I'm not too concerned that it's the latter, but it's something worth thinking about.
Depending on what Geoff thinks the answers to those questions are, he must decide what to do with Wells in the next few days.
If he decides to move him, here's a three team deal that works financially:
Orlando trades Steve Francis to the Nuggets.
Denver trades Nene and Watson to the Kings and Lenard to the Magic
Sacramento trades Bonzi and a future 1st to the Magic.
The Nuggets get the two guard that they supposedly covet (Francis is a better fit for them than Wells IMO), the Kings get a good, if somewhat overpaid backup PG and a young big man with potential and the Magic clear Francis' contract off the books while getting a future draft pick. The Magic might well demand THIS year's pick. As long as it was top 3 protected, I'd probably be OK with that too.
If the Magic like what Bonzi brings, they can always try to resign him, or else they continue their current trend of building around Howard with young players while trimming their salary cap to make a splash in free agency.
One problem for the Kings is that they ostensibly strengthen a conference rival. I'm no Francis fan, but he IS talented, and the Nuggets would acquire him for basically a backup PG since Nene and Lenard haven't played due to injury.
The other concern I'd have is that Nene is still a gamble. Most importantly, he's a free agent and no guarantee to re-sign with the Kings. Losing him would mean trading Wells and a future 1st for Watson. Better than losing Wells for nothing I suppose, but not by much. Secondly, Nene's coming off knee surgery and still has yet to break out as a real player in this league.
Still, depending on the answers to the questions I posed above, I wouldn't discount such a deal before the deadline.
Last edited:
Lenard hasn't played because Karl doesn't like him. Haven't heard he's injured.
I also haven't forgot how incredible Bonzi was before the injury, along with that one Denver game. But I ultimately think he's gone in the summer or by a trade. I'd still love to have him back for the season though, and see he and Artest as a wing combo (Bonzi doesn't have a bad mid-range jump shot).
I also haven't forgot how incredible Bonzi was before the injury, along with that one Denver game. But I ultimately think he's gone in the summer or by a trade. I'd still love to have him back for the season though, and see he and Artest as a wing combo (Bonzi doesn't have a bad mid-range jump shot).
I was too lazy to check why Voshon hasn't played in more than 12 games this season. He's almost always hurt, so I made the assumption. Of course, at this point in his career it doesn't really matter. He holds value as an ending contract, but after this season I'd be surprised to see him still in the league.
Bonzi doesn't have a horrible jumper, but it IS incredibly inconsistent because of his motion and the abnormal amount of arc he puts on it. He also seems to fall in love with the idea of shooting jumpers at times, even when they aren't falling.
I'm afraid that Bonzi will walk this summer too. He's taken notice of the improvement in Martin's play and understands that this next contract is likely his last. He'll be chasing the dollars (not that I blame him) and the Kings may not be willing to offer top dollar with a younger and cheaper alternative already on the roster.
I hope Petrie has a good handle on Bonzi's future intentions. Posters have talked about the possibility of a sign-and-trade but I just don't see that happening. S&T's usually occur because the new team is willing to sign a player to a max contract (Grant Hill, Joe Johnson etc). That won't be the case for Wells. He'll either be re-signed by the Kings or signed by another team outright.
I'm a little hesitant about either right now, but especially the latter.
Bonzi doesn't have a horrible jumper, but it IS incredibly inconsistent because of his motion and the abnormal amount of arc he puts on it. He also seems to fall in love with the idea of shooting jumpers at times, even when they aren't falling.
I'm afraid that Bonzi will walk this summer too. He's taken notice of the improvement in Martin's play and understands that this next contract is likely his last. He'll be chasing the dollars (not that I blame him) and the Kings may not be willing to offer top dollar with a younger and cheaper alternative already on the roster.
I hope Petrie has a good handle on Bonzi's future intentions. Posters have talked about the possibility of a sign-and-trade but I just don't see that happening. S&T's usually occur because the new team is willing to sign a player to a max contract (Grant Hill, Joe Johnson etc). That won't be the case for Wells. He'll either be re-signed by the Kings or signed by another team outright.
I'm a little hesitant about either right now, but especially the latter.
There seems to be a lot of hype surrounding Nene and I'm not sure if it's warranted. He's a big body, but too unproven. He has potential, but I don't know if he's shown enough potential that he could be an excellent rebounder, shotblocker, or defender. Plus he's contract will be up soon enough.
While Bonzi is better than Earl Watson straight up, we're looking at a situation where Bonzi will walk and we won't get anything.
While Bonzi is better than Earl Watson straight up, we're looking at a situation where Bonzi will walk and we won't get anything.
P
How so?
*He's been our best defender throughout the season. (Artest is our best now, but before him, our PF)
*He's the only player on the roster that has scored over 20PPG for the majority of his career (if anything he's being underutilized)
*He's typically an 8-9 RPG guy, but hurt his back at the beginning of the season. (Since sitting out, he's "mystically" been grabbing more rebounds)
*He's been our most consistant and effective player, and played through injuries that should have sidelined him for months.
*He's also averaging a good Assist to Turnover ratio - in fact, was near the top in the league on assist per passing to.
I fail to see how a PF who is a good defender, a decent rebounder (when healthy) and our best (most effective) scorer is the liability!
I may be Reef-centric ... but come on!
The only knock ANYONE can really say about Reef so far is that he wasn't grabbing rebounds. But, the caveat is HE WAS PLAYING WITH A HURT BACK!! Still, with a hurt back, he kept his man off the boards, which is about all you can ask.
*He's been our best defender throughout the season. (Artest is our best now, but before him, our PF)
*He's the only player on the roster that has scored over 20PPG for the majority of his career (if anything he's being underutilized)
*He's typically an 8-9 RPG guy, but hurt his back at the beginning of the season. (Since sitting out, he's "mystically" been grabbing more rebounds)
*He's been our most consistant and effective player, and played through injuries that should have sidelined him for months.
*He's also averaging a good Assist to Turnover ratio - in fact, was near the top in the league on assist per passing to.
I fail to see how a PF who is a good defender, a decent rebounder (when healthy) and our best (most effective) scorer is the liability!
I may be Reef-centric ... but come on!
The only knock ANYONE can really say about Reef so far is that he wasn't grabbing rebounds. But, the caveat is HE WAS PLAYING WITH A HURT BACK!! Still, with a hurt back, he kept his man off the boards, which is about all you can ask.
