[Game] Kings @ Nuggets - 4/2/16 - 6 PT, 9 ET

[KingsFanSince85]

From nba.com:

The first 14 picks in the draft belonged to teams that had missed the playoffs; the order was determined through a lottery. The lottery would determine the three teams that would obtain the first three picks on the draft. The remaining first-round picks and the second-round picks were assigned to teams in reverse order of their win-loss record in the previous season.

That's what I was referring to.

For the 1st 3 picks, correct. But his point was that there was no "benefit" to winning the last game and all it did was cost them a precious spot in the draft not to mention extra ping pong balls for a chance at top 3.

 

[ockingsfan]

I see no reason why he doesnt opt out, he makes 975k, he has been playing better than a league minimum guy. The advantage we have is that he is cementing his spot on the roster. There will be quite a bit of roster turnover and he would be coming back and not having to re-cement his place with a team.

Does anyone know the deadline for Seth to pick up his option?

I think Seth could be a valuable rotation player for the kings next year.

I always wished vlade would have made that a team option, instead of player option, considering we were apparently the only ones that offered him a guaranteed contract last summer.

Now we have to wait and see if curry picks up the option or re-signs with us.

 

[NewArena]

Actually, it is. After the top 3 spots are drawn, the rest of the lottery goes by inverse record.

The Kings ended up tying the Knicks with a 33-49 record during the 2006-2007 season. Had they not won their final game, they would have ended up with the 9th pick rather than 10. Instead, New York ended up with the 9th pick due to some tiebreaker. Chicago ended up with it due to some trade.

Regardless, if the rumors are true that Geoff Petrie was targeting Noah, the Kings would have been able to select him before Chicago -- had they not won their final game.

And having Noah all those years would have made us juuust good enough to miss out on a guy like Cousins in 2010

so ... we can all play this game too. point is, the draft is unpredictable. The next big thing can be at ANY spot

 

[mac]

And having Noah all those years would have made us juuust good enough to miss out on a guy like Cousins in 2010

so ... we can all play this game too. point is, the draft is unpredictable. The next big thing can be at ANY spot

And having Cousins in 2010 has done diddly squat for us unless your measure of success is coaches fired. You're right, we can all play this game too Seems the bottom line is there's no winning with the Kings. So does that mean we should or shouldnt win?

 

[KingMilz]

And having Cousins in 2010 has done diddly squat for us unless your measure of success is coaches fired. You're right, we can all play this game too Seems the bottom line is there's no winning with the Kings. So does that mean we should or shouldnt win?

But we would have missed all the 20/10 games and his per 36 numbers

 

[Chubbs]

But we would have missed all the 20/10 games and his per 36 numbers

your snark is consistent. Admirable.

Pointless and trolling, but admirable.

Yeah, who wants to watch an all star every night anyway? Apparently not some kings fans.

The desire by some to make this team LESS talented is part of some delusion I don't share.

As for Mac, as has been pointed out before, the day cuz arrived we were on our 4th coach since Adelman. Didn't start with cuz, and as long as the top of the organization remains ran by incompetents, there's a good chance it continues once he leaves.

 

[mac]

your snark is consistent. Admirable.

Pointless and trolling, but admirable.

Yeah, who wants to watch an all star every night anyway? Apparently not some kings fans.

The desire by some to make this team LESS talented is part of some delusion I don't share.

As for Mac, as has been pointed out before, the day cuz arrived we were on our 4th coach since Adelman. Didn't start with cuz, and as long as the top of the organization remains ran by incompetents, there's a good chance it continues once he leaves.

Well my comment was an attempt at some humor, and in retrospect I realise I brought together the unholy trinity of Kings conflict: DeMarcus Cousins' lack of winning, incompetent franchise management and whether or not to tank. I'd say I deserve a pat on the back!

 

[Chubbs]

Well my comment was an attempt at some humor, and in retrospect I realise I brought together the unholy trinity of Kings conflict: DeMarcus Cousins' lack of winning, incompetent franchise management and whether or not to tank. I'd say I deserve a pat on the back!

You did hit the unholy trinity.

Responding was reflexive more than anything.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Well my comment was an attempt at some humor, and in retrospect I realise I brought together the unholy trinity of Kings conflict: DeMarcus Cousins' lack of winning, incompetent franchise management and whether or not to tank. I'd say I deserve a pat on the back!

Well, the haters will no longer be able to say "Cousins has never won 30 games". Now it'll be "Cousins has never won 35".

It's always Cousins fault for the lack of winning, yet he's only been here for about half of the drought. Most with an agenda against the team's best player refuse to acknowledge that this dumpster fire began numerous years before #15 set foot in Sacramento. And the few that do still want to blame him for not being able to single-handedly overcome it all.

We have such a reasonable bunch around these parts.

 

[KingMilz]

Well, the haters will no longer be able to say "Cousins has never won 30 games". Now it'll be "Cousins has never won 35".

It's always Cousins fault for the lack of winning, yet he's only been here for about half of the drought. Most with an agenda against the team's best player refuse to acknowledge that this dumpster fire began numerous years before #15 set foot in Sacramento. And the few that do still want to blame him for not being able to single-handedly overcome it all.

We have such a reasonable bunch around these parts.

Well technically he has not won 30 games cause he missed 3 of the wins

 

[NewArena]

And having Cousins in 2010 has done diddly squat for us unless your measure of success is coaches fired. You're right, we can all play this game too Seems the bottom line is there's no winning with the Kings. So does that mean we should or shouldnt win?

Always always go for the WIN. the question is ludicrous IMO

 

[FaStRmAn]

Can SOMEONE A N Y O N E tell me why we are still wining games?

BTW how many more do we have to win to lose the draft pick?

Pretty sure that is Karl's goal.

 

[bajaden]

Well, the haters will no longer be able to say "Cousins has never won 30 games". Now it'll be "Cousins has never won 35".

It's always Cousins fault for the lack of winning, yet he's only been here for about half of the drought. Most with an agenda against the team's best player refuse to acknowledge that this dumpster fire began numerous years before #15 set foot in Sacramento. And the few that do still want to blame him for not being able to single-handedly overcome it all.

We have such a reasonable bunch around these parts.

You know, I don't think its that people hate DeMarcus. I just think they're tired of the drama. You, me, and most of the people on this forum are way more emotionally invested in the Kings than the average Joe Blow on the street that goes to 5 or 6 games a year and watches them on TV when he or she has nothing better to do. To the average person, Cousins is a polarizing figure that has become an annoyance. They don't want to hear about him anymore. They could care less about the stats he puts up.

I don't envy Vlade this summer. He has to make some hard decisions. I can easily argue for keeping Cousins and trying once again to build a team around him. I find it harder to argue for trading him because I have no idea what we can get for him. Would I trade him for Karl Anthony Towns? Yes I would, because I think he can be as good if not a better player than Cousins down the road. But the T Wolves would never make that trade. My point is, there are players that I might trade Cousins for. But not many!

I'm sure that some would argue that it would be addition by subtraction. I don't buy that one. Like him or not, Cousins is an all star and the best center in the NBA if not the world. I fail to see how subtracting him from your team makes the team better. Is it possible that trading him for two or three lesser, but quality players would make us a better team? Maybe, but that's a huge risk to take, and if it doesn't work, he's gone. Of course there's the possibility that we retool around Cuz again, and were right back here next year with the same story. Not likely, but certainly possible. What then? We would have far less leverage in a trade then than we do now. As I said, I don't envy Vlade.

 

[CuzistanKing]

Well technically he has not won 30 games cause he missed 3 of the wins

Heh, I knew someone was going to bring it up. Does it mean then that the losses without Big Cuz do not count against him? By that logic, DMC led his team to .444 percentage this year, good for 36-37 wins!

 

[bajaden]

Can SOMEONE A N Y O N E tell me why we are still wining games?

BTW how many more do we have to win to lose the draft pick?

Pretty sure that is Karl's goal.

Hard to answer that question because we have no idea what the other teams above us are going to do. We could win all the remaining games, and still not lose the pick. Not a risk I would like to take. Worse case scenario would be we end up in the 10 spot, and then have a team behind us move up into the top three, thereby moving us into the 11th spot. Sitting at 10 would make the lottery far more exciting for a variety of reasons. Rather be at 7.

 

[KingMilz]

Heh, I knew someone was going to bring it up. Does it mean then that the losses without Big Cuz do not count against him? By that logic, DMC led his team to .444 percentage this year, good for 36-37 wins!

Which is still good enough to miss the playoffs and lose the pick!!!

 

[CuzistanKing]

Which is still good enough to miss the playoffs and lose the pick!!!

Them goalposts, they be moving!

Seriously though, there's only one correct way to wave the W-L stick around - and that is to compare winning percentage of the team with vs. without DeMarcus. But you know that, you just don't like the only possible conclusion that comparison yields.

 

[KingMilz]

Them goalposts, they be moving!

Seriously though, there's only one correct way to wave the W-L stick around - and that is to compare winning percentage of the team with vs. without DeMarcus. But you know that, you just don't like the only possible conclusion that comparison yields.

It clearly shows we are better with Cousins but it also shows we are stuck in the worst spot possible where we can't make the playoffs and can't get a high top 3 pick. We are somehow a treadmill team while consistently sucking.

 

[CuzistanKing]

It clearly shows we are better with Cousins but it also shows we are stuck in the worst spot possible where we can't make the playoffs and can't get a high top 3 pick. We are somehow a treadmill team while consistently sucking.

Almost there... You've correctly identified the symptom, but not the root cause. We are a treadmill team because the foundation of the team is so rotten (without DMC it's a 17-win team) that no amount of single super-star talent can elevate it higher than 30-35 wins. You can argue what exactly has contributed to the rotten foundation this year (my list starts and mostly ends with the coach), but to claim that Cuz has played any major role in this team being bad this season is pretty disingenuous, in my opinion. You can't jump very high while your feet are stuck in quick sand.

As many have said, give Cuz a .400 team and he'll get you deep in the playoffs. Apparently, for most Kings fans (don't mean you specifically) it's an unreasonable proposition.

 

[jcwkings]

Can SOMEONE A N Y O N E tell me why we are still wining games?

BTW how many more do we have to win to lose the draft pick?

Pretty sure that is Karl's goal.

Because GO KINGS!! and because we suck at drafting anyways so signing mediocre free agents>taking a stab in the draft. For instance last summer signing Marco Bellinelli> drafting WCS(with guys like Booker, Mudiay, Winslow all on the board as well) according to some on here. Guys we are not good enough to be giving away lottery picks, sure we suck at drafting but every year is another stab at it. Maybe this is the year we pick a guy like Kawhi, Booker, Jimmy Butler. Just because we aren't picking a top 2 player doesn't mean you picks can't become stars. I will be more than happy to concede the pick when we become a playoff team. Giving away you're pick and not making the playoffs is at the pits of mediocrity.

 

[gunks]

Can SOMEONE A N Y O N E tell me why we are still wining games?

BTW how many more do we have to win to lose the draft pick?

Pretty sure that is Karl's goal.

Haha, for real. I don't know how anyone can continue to defend that spiteful old he-hag.

 

[KingMilz]

Almost there... You've correctly identified the symptom, but not the root cause. We are a treadmill team because the foundation of the team is so rotten (without DMC it's a 17-win team) that no amount of single super-star talent can elevate it higher than 30-35 wins. You can argue what exactly has contributed to the rotten foundation this year (my list starts and mostly ends with the coach), but to claim that Cuz has played any major role in this team being bad this season is pretty disingenuous, in my opinion. You can't jump very high while your feet are stuck in quick sand.

As many have said, give Cuz a .400 team and he'll get you deep in the playoffs. Apparently, for most Kings fans (don't mean you specifically) it's an unreasonable proposition.

I agree with for the most part but the last line (bolded) that has to be proven first for me to believe it, many of those same people for years had said if we were in the East (West is way weaker now) we would make the playoffs and now it looks like it will take 39-42 games to get into the playoffs (East took 38-40) and we with the best roster we have had (yes Karl is a moron) won't sniff 38wins.

 

[KingMilz]

Because GO KINGS!! and because we suck at drafting anyways so signing mediocre free agents>taking a stab in the draft. For instance last summer signing Marco Bellinelli> drafting WCS(with guys like Booker, Mudiay, Winslow all on the board as well) according to some on here. Guys we are not good enough to be giving away lottery picks, sure we suck at drafting but every year is another stab at it. Maybe this is the year we pick a guy like Kawhi, Booker, Jimmy Butler. Just because we aren't picking a top 2 player doesn't mean you picks can't become stars. I will be more than happy to concede the pick when we become a playoff team. Giving away you're pick and not making the playoffs is at the pits of mediocrity.

Brooklyn Nets West basically

 

[King Baller]

It clearly shows we are better with Cousins but it also shows we are stuck in the worst spot possible where we can't make the playoffs and can't get a high top 3 pick. We are somehow a treadmill team while consistently sucking.

What does a high top 3 pick get you?

 

[King Baller]

I went back and looked at the last few years #3 pick. I did not see a player that can touch Cousins in value.

 

[KingMilz]

What does a high top 3 pick get you?

A potential good player I guess it got the Timberwolves Big KAT this year.

 

[King Baller]

A potential good player I guess it got the Timberwolves Big KAT this year.

You mean you want the first pick or perhaps the second in some years.

 

[KingMilz]

You mean you want the first pick or perhaps the second in some years.

O did you mean the 3rd pick? Cause you said top 3 pick so I said Big KAT as an example cause he was a top 3 pick. Well if you suck you always want the #1/#2 pick unless it's a draft like the Anthony Bennett one where your better off picking in the teens early 10's.

 

[CuzistanKing]

I agree with for the most part but the last line (bolded) that has to be proven first for me to believe it, many of those same people for years had said if we were in the East (West is way weaker now) we would make the playoffs and now it looks like it will take 39-42 games to get into the playoffs (East took 38-40) and we with the best roster we have had (yes Karl is a moron) won't sniff 38wins.

Well, we won't know for sure until this franchise pulls its head out of its ass (or Cuz decides he's had enough of idiots wasting his prime years), but all signs as well as basic math point to one thing - DMC can get you 15-20 wins by himself, even with all the turmoil. So all we really need to do is field a slightly below-average team around him with a non-decrepit coach. Vlade did the former but we're still stuck with the latter. Until this last hurdle is cleared, it's too early to throw in the towel on the core we do have. Get a coach that gives a damn, get our defense to a league average and we're in playoffs. Then use the hype and improved reputation to lure even one other All-Star and we're a contender. I really do believe it could be as simple as that.

 

[IfAt1st]

I could pretty easily make an argument that Cousins win record with the Kings is absolutely irrelevant.

The basis for my argument would be this:
I could make a strong case that a good portion of the Kings team, coaches, and/or front office did not want to win in ANY of the six years he's been here.