Kings Need a Big Man

[ppine]

After watching an elite team like Oklahoma City, it is obvious that the Kings large people are all "horizontal players" as opposed to "verical players" like Perkins and especially Ibaka. We all love Cousins, but he is somewhat neutralized by players that are above the rim all the time. Reynolds announced last night that Cousins had the most shots blocked of any player in the NBA this year. That is a telling statistic. Cousins, Thompson, and especially Hayes do not jump well for their size. Hayes had a good game last night, but watching him try to tap the ball to himself all the time is demoralizing. Cousins was doing the same thing. Hayes was left alone at the top of the key many times and did not even consider shooting from there. Those are some glaring weaknesses in the Kings' otherwise competent big men.

I would like to see a vertical player at the 4 to complement Cousins. Maybe Whiteside can help out off the bench. Against some teams the Kings are fine, but against the really good teams they get overwhelmed physically. Even Cousins did last night. I know these are unpopular observations, but they were obvious last night. What is your take on the physicality of the Kings against the good teams?

 

[bajaden]

After watching an elite team like Oklahoma City, it is obvious that the Kings large people are all "horizontal players" as opposed to "verical players" like Perkins and especially Ibaka. We all love Cousins, but he is somewhat neutralized by players that are above the rim all the time. Reynolds announced last night that Cousins had the most shots blocked of any player in the NBA this year. That is a telling statistic. Cousins, Thompson, and especially Hayes do not jump well for their size. Hayes had a good game last night, but watching him try to tap the ball to himself all the time is demoralizing. Cousins was doing the same thing. Hayes was left alone at the top of the key many times and did not even consider shooting from there. Those are some glaring weaknesses in the Kings' otherwise competent big men.

I would like to see a vertical player at the 4 to complement Cousins. Maybe Whiteside can help out off the bench. Against some teams the Kings are fine, but against the really good teams they get overwhelmed physically. Even Cousins did last night. I know these are unpopular observations, but they were obvious last night. What is your take on the physicality of the Kings against the good teams?

I don't want to be too harsh, but last time I checked, any player that was standing up, is vertical. OK! Yes, some players do have better leaping ability than others, but one size doesn't fit all per team. Ibaka is a great athlete with great leaping ability, and excellent shotblocking timing. Thats a given. But Perkins is just as ground bound as Cousins is. The difference is, Perkins knows how to play man to man defense in the post. And having Ibaka next to him makes him that much better. Do we need someone like that? Of course we do! There's no one on this fourm that doesn't know that!

JT, is quite capable of playing above the rim. There's nothing wrong with his athleticism. So you just can't lump JT's athletic ability with Cousins. And, JT is a pretty good defender. He's just not on the same planet with Ibaka. None of this is a revelation. As you can see, I don't like generalizations.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

hassan blockside. only if our smallball coach would throw him in the fire and give him some play with these meaningless games left in the season. we'd be ok

 

[Bricklayer]

hassan blockside. only if our smallball coach would throw him in the fire and give him some play with these meaningless games left in the season. we'd be ok

Hassan is out through the end of the year with the ankle injury he suffered a couple of games ago.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Hassan is out through the end of the year with the ankle injury he suffered a couple of games ago.

damn.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

The kings have plenty of size. Sheesh. Cousins, Thompson, and Whiteside are all 6'10" or over. Both Boogie and Hassan have standing reaches somewhere around 9'6". Size is not the issue. Experience and style of play are the problem.

All through out high school and 1-year in college, Cousins rarely, if ever, faced players like Ibaka, Camby, or Howard. It's taking him time to adjust, but he will. His problem is patience around the basket, something Jason Thompson knows about all too well. Thompson has finally showed signs of breaking through that problem, with the tutoring of Clifford Ray, but it's taken him 3+ seasons to do so. Hopefully Cuz won't take as long. Once he learns to remain patient and let those guys get off their feet then use his wide body to over power them, he'll have little trouble with them. It just takes time, experience and good coaching.

All that said, I do agree that a more athletic big would be ideal to pair with DeMarcus. If they could luck out and land an Anthony Davis type, that would be perfect. Or if Whiteside can continue to develop, he could be the answer in another 2-3 seasons.

Regardless, the Kings do not have a size problem in the front court (except when they play small ball, of course). They have an experience and style of play problem. Both can be fixed.

 

[Krunker]

To be fair, Ibaka blocks everyone, not just Cousins. I think Cousins will get better at adjusting his game when going up against the elite shot blockers.

We're pretty weak on shot blockers ourselves, Cousins is our best blocker at 1.18 per game and then it drops to 0.88 with Whiteside and 0.74 with Garcia! As far as talent to get outside of the draft, Seraphin has made a nice run here at the end of the season and has also shown the ability to score. I don't know what the Wiz would want to give him up. A few other guys that have shown a few flashes with blocking are Udoh and Stiemsma but they are weak offensively and rebounding (although I'm not too concerned about the offensive side, we need more players that don't demand the ball).

 

[bajaden]

The kings have plenty of size. Sheesh. Cousins, Thompson, and Whiteside are all 6'10" or over. Both Boogie and Hassan have standing reaches somewhere around 9'6". Size is not the issue. Experience and style of play are the problem.

All through out high school and 1-year in college, Cousins rarely, if ever, faced players like Ibaka, Camby, or Howard. It's taking him time to adjust, but he will. His problem is patience around the basket, something Jason Thompson knows about all too well. Thompson has finally showed signs of breaking through that problem, with the tutoring of Clifford Ray, but it's taken him 3+ seasons to do so. Hopefully Cuz won't take as long. Once he learns to remain patient and let those guys get off their feet then use his wide body to over power them, he'll have little trouble with them. It just takes time, experience and good coaching.

All that said, I do agree that a more athletic big would be ideal to pair with DeMarcus. If they could luck out and land an Anthony Davis type, that would be perfect. Or if Whiteside can continue to develop, he could be the answer in another 2-3 seasons.

Regardless, the Kings do not have a size problem in the front court (except when they play small ball, of course). They have an experience and style of play problem. Both can be fixed.

I'm going to disagree a little. I think you have to take Whiteside out of the equation until he proves he's an everyday player. And if you do take him out of the equation, your left with two bigs over 6'7" of the players that play regularly. I don't expect Outlaw to be one of those next season. We have no depth with size at either the Center or PF position. Hayes is only 6'6". I don't expect Greene to return next season, and we don't even have a guarantee that JT will be back. He's a restricted freeagent, but what if some idiot out there offers him 8 or 9 million a year to start. Do we match that offer? Plus, we need a decision on JT fairly quickly, since his cap hold is around 9 mil.

One way or the other, we need more talented depth in the TALL dept. Right now, 7 out of the 13 players on the roster are 6'7" or under. Of the 6 that are over 6'7", 2 aren't ready for regular minutes in the rotation, and 2 probably won't be on the team next season.

 

[theclash4u5]

I heard there was this one big man available last offseason. I forget his name, but he used to play for us before...something like...Sammy D? Gee, he would have been nice to have this season...

 

[bajaden]

To be fair, Ibaka blocks everyone, not just Cousins. I think Cousins will get better at adjusting his game when going up against the elite shot blockers.

We're pretty weak on shot blockers ourselves, Cousins is our best blocker at 1.18 per game and then it drops to 0.88 with Whiteside and 0.74 with Garcia! As far as talent to get outside of the draft, Seraphin has made a nice run here at the end of the season and has also shown the ability to score. I don't know what the Wiz would want to give him up. A few other guys that have shown a few flashes with blocking are Udoh and Stiemsma but they are weak offensively and rebounding (although I'm not too concerned about the offensive side, we need more players that don't demand the ball).

This is the best thing that can happen to Cousins. It makes a player learn and adjust. It just takes time and experience. At some point it'll start to become a push between the two of them. Ibaka will still get his blocks here and there on Cuz, but Cuz will figure out how to get Ibaka in foul trouble. I like Udoh. I liked him at Baylor, and while he's a pretty good shotblocker, he's more of a weakside shotblocker. Not that it wouldn't help. He's also a better offensive player than Stiemsma, who I think is one notch above a thug.

Don't know why the Wiz would give up Seraphin. I don't think they're in a position to give up any young talent they have. Once Whiteside figures out how to play, he might be the piece to the puzzle. He has more shotblocking talent than Seraphin.

 

[bajaden]

I heard there was this one big man available last offseason. I forget his name, but he used to play for us before...something like...Sammy D? Gee, he would have been nice to have this season...

Never heard of him!

 

[Glenn]

Yes, and we dropped one because he sucked. How's he doing now and whose decison was that? Point being, I don't think our coaching staff knows what to do with big guys unless they are so darn good they can't be ignored and will perform even without plays run for them. The name Cousins comes to mind. Also JT as let's be real, he's just mopping up the table scraps.

Now, this resigning of Smart just keeps coming back to haunt us over and over. I don't know what he is making but I will leap with joy for many reasons if they eat his salary and hire a real coach.

 

[SacTownKid]

The kings have plenty of size. Sheesh. Cousins, Thompson, and Whiteside are all 6'10" or over. Both Boogie and Hassan have standing reaches somewhere around 9'6". Size is not the issue. Experience and style of play are the problem.

All through out high school and 1-year in college, Cousins rarely, if ever, faced players like Ibaka, Camby, or Howard. It's taking him time to adjust, but he will. His problem is patience around the basket, something Jason Thompson knows about all too well. Thompson has finally showed signs of breaking through that problem, with the tutoring of Clifford Ray, but it's taken him 3+ seasons to do so. Hopefully Cuz won't take as long. Once he learns to remain patient and let those guys get off their feet then use his wide body to over power them, he'll have little trouble with them. It just takes time, experience and good coaching.

All that said, I do agree that a more athletic big would be ideal to pair with DeMarcus. If they could luck out and land an Anthony Davis type, that would be perfect. Or if Whiteside can continue to develop, he could be the answer in another 2-3 seasons.

Regardless, the Kings do not have a size problem in the front court (except when they play small ball, of course). They have an experience and style of play problem. Both can be fixed.

Totally agree.

Both Evans and Cousins are below the rim finishers and Ibaka has them timed very well, you add in that they can get frustrated looking for foul calls then continuously throw up junk at the rim and you have your 8 block game in hand. That can only go away with experience, patience is going to be the difference with Cousins for sure. That will determine if he stays a star or elevates to the level of superstar efficiency.

If there is a size problem, it's on the wing. You once had the looks of one of the biggest wing combos in the league and now you have without question the smallest when all three of Thomas, Thornton, and Reke are playing together.

 

[SacTownKid]

This is the best thing that can happen to Cousins. It makes a player learn and adjust. It just takes time and experience. At some point it'll start to become a push between the two of them. Ibaka will still get his blocks here and there on Cuz, but Cuz will figure out how to get Ibaka in foul trouble. I like Udoh. I liked him at Baylor, and while he's a pretty good shotblocker, he's more of a weakside shotblocker. Not that it wouldn't help. He's also a better offensive player than Stiemsma, who I think is one notch above a thug.

Don't know why the Wiz would give up Seraphin. I don't think they're in a position to give up any young talent they have. Once Whiteside figures out how to play, he might be the piece to the puzzle. He has more shotblocking talent than Seraphin.

Yeah, hopefully coach Ray can help Cousins with that. He gets tunnel vision sometimes and doesn't realize that while Perkins is pinning him down Ibaka is sneaking over to help. With the passing and court vision we've seen from Cousins he should be able to make teams pay for doing that because it's going to leave someone open under the bakset or on the perimter.

Ibaka is a weakside shotblocker and if anyone thinks this team needs a shotblocker those needs will only be filled by one. The guy I like, that may be available thanks to Udoh is Larry Sanders. He'd be a great fit next to Cousins. He would accept the role of role player and he is a decent mid range spot shooter to boot. Like Dalembert except he can hang with PF's athletically and has a better grasp of spacing.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Thomas Robinson is a legitimate possibility...

 

[Glenn]

Thomas Robinson is a legitimate possibility...

Assuming we can't have Davis, Robinson would be a nice addition to the team and is my pick even if it was a choice between MKG and Robinson. There is a significant height difference that makes Robinson stand out over MKG. Robinson may be a bit unpolished but there is no questioning his desire. I particularly like his motor and we need some guys like that. And unless I have said it before, even though our biggest hole seems to be at SF, we are one or two injuries of a big away from being in terrible shape.

 

[Bricklayer]

Thomas Robinson is not a defender/shotblocker. And without that...we just simply have to get one of those. Its not about getting another frontcourt talent, let alone one who wants to shoot. We are in desperate need fo a very PARTICULAR type of frontcourt talent. JJ Hickson is an offensive minded frontcourt talent. But he was an awful fit here. DeMarcus Cousins wil be doing the frontcourt scoing in these parts for the next dozen years unless we lose him. What we need is an incredible rolepayer. Davis. Drummond if he gets his head screwed on right. A shotblocker/rebounder for whom shots are an afterthought -- something he deos within the offense rather than expecting plays drawn up for him.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Thomas Robinson is not a defender/shotblocker. And without that...we just simply have to get one of those. Its not about getting another frontcourt talent, let alone one who wants to shoot. We are in desperate need fo a very PARTICULAR type of frontcourt talent. JJ Hickson is an offensive minded frontcourt talent. But he was an awful fit here. DeMarcus Cousins wil be doing the frontcourt scoing in these parts for the next dozen years unless we lose him. What we need is an incredible rolepayer. Davis. Drummond if he gets his head screwed on right. A shotblocker/rebounder for whom shots are an afterthought -- something he deos within the offense rather than expecting plays drawn up for him.

I'm certainly not saying Robinson is the perfect fit, but you don't pass on him if you have him as the best player available just because he's not exactly what you need. That never works out for teams, and I think you know by now that I'm desperately craving a defensive big man to put next to Cousins. If you are in the top 3, you pretty much have to take MKG or Robinson after Davis.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm certainly not saying Robinson is the perfect fit, but you don't pass on him if you have him as the best player available just because he's not exactly what you need. That never works out for teams, and I think you know by now that I'm desperately craving a defensive big man to put next to Cousins. If you are in the top 3, you pretty much have to take MKG or Robinson after Davis.

Maybe. Or you can explore trading the pick for a guy you need. Unless he's an impact guy playing the right position for us, the last thing this team needs is to get any younger.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Sure, but I am always iffy about trading very high picks because you may just be trading away a star. You need to be sure that the player you're getting back is worth the potential loss. In theory it's fine. But usually there is one big winner and one big loser. And I think the loser is usually the one trading away the young guy. We don't need to get younger, but you can fix that by signing the right vets or through trades. Unfortunately our owners are inept and broke...

 

[KingsCitizen]

Javale McGee

Too much attention has been focused on his dumbness but the kid is probably one of the best leaping big man in the league.

IMO, he can work together with Cuz as a starter on this team. He'll be a restricted free agent this offseason, and I think he's a good option if we can't get a big man in this draft.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Javale McGee

Too much attention has been focused on his dumbness but the kid is probably one of the best leaping big man in the league.

IMO, he can work together with Cuz as a starter on this team. He'll be a restricted free agent this offseason, and I think he's a good option if we can't get a big man in this draft.

how do you want to acquire mcgee? you do realize they gave up nene for him... they're gonna expect something valuable in return for him. i wouldn't give up the pick for him.

on another note.. he'd be a great addition to the goon squad

http://lastangryfan.com/2011/11/loc...e-and-nick-young-take-the-cinnamon-challenge/

 

[bajaden]

I'm not going to say that Robinson is going to be the next coming of Bill Russell, but I think your selling him short if you only look at him as an offensive player. He's a terrific athlete, and a team player to go along with a great work ethic. If you needed him to play defense, then thats what he'd do. He's a little behind the curve because he had to play behind the Morris twins for two years, which really held down his minutes. But there's no reason he can't become a terrific defensive player. His lateral quickness is outstanding, as is his leaping ability.

 

[Tetsujin]

I'm certainly not saying Robinson is the perfect fit, but you don't pass on him if you have him as the best player available just because he's not exactly what you need. That never works out for teams, and I think you know by now that I'm desperately craving a defensive big man to put next to Cousins. If you are in the top 3, you pretty much have to take MKG or Robinson after Davis.

Not necessarily. Drummond is a possibility out of sheer potential. (Albeit, so was Hasheem Thabeet)

 

[ppine]

Thanks for the response. I think several points are well taken. Ibaka can change anyone's game inside. Cousins does have little experience against quality big men that play above the rim. He tends to get frustrated a lot against a team like OK. Experience will help, like it has helped Thompson play better. This season we have witnessed Cousins' dominating presence inside against some teams, so it was startling to me to see him stuggle against Ibaka and Perkins. Hayes played a good game and contributed, but his lack of size and jumping ability were never so apparent. We can all agree about the difficulties at the 3, but against some teams we also need help at the 4.

I watched JaVale McGee for a couple of years at Nevada. He has talent, but his mental approach to the game makes him his own worst enemy. He also takes a lot of plays off. Maybe Clifford Ray is the type of coach that could really help him take advantage of his quickness, wingspan, and leaping ability.

 

[bajaden]

Not necessarily. Drummond is a possibility out of sheer potential. (Albeit, so was Hasheem Thabeet)

Here's the main question with Drummond. Are the Kings, at this stage of their rebuild (using the term loosely) in a postion to take a chance on a huge question mark like Drummond? No one denys his talent or his upside. If we end up with a top three pick, we can't afford to miss. We need to choose a player with ability, upside, work ethic, and confidence.

 

[Bricklayer]

Here's the main question with Drummond. Are the Kings, at this stage of their rebuild (using the term loosely) in a postion to take a chance on a huge question mark like Drummond? No one denys his talent or his upside. If we end up with a top three pick, we can't afford to miss. We need to choose a player with ability, upside, work ethic, and confidence.

I actually would disagree to this point: I don't think we need to hit. I don't we needed to hit last year. I think we are idiots. But I think that Cousins/Evans/Thornton, right there, alone is the core of a very godo team. Given a real coach. Given a real organization. Adn all that was needed to make that work were good roleplayers. Nto Jimmer. Not Salmons. Not any of the muddled bullcrap tryign too hard and showing no confidence in what you had. Just get us some shooters and defenders and a real coach and we were good to go.

Now coming ito this year we have added another good young player in IT. Fine. So now we REALLY don't need any special hit. The guys who would make a competent organization win are already here. We don't need a savior. We just need to one way or the other find ourselves the right roleplayers (AND A COACH). Could be a kid in the draft. A free agent. Somebody in trade. Does not matter. The talent is here. The Bobcats...now they can't afford to bust. They have no talent. Everything has to count. Us? This is a cherry on top for us. We have specific needs now, not a general talent need.

 

[theclash4u5]

I actually would disagree to this point: I don't think we need to hit. I don't we needed to hit last year. I think we are idiots. But I think that Cousins/Evans/Thornton, right there, alone is the core of a very godo team. Given a real coach. Given a real organization. Adn all that was needed to make that work were good roleplayers. Nto Jimmer. Not Salmons. Not any of the muddled bullcrap tryign too hard and showing no confidence in what you had. Just get us some shooters and defenders and a real coach and we were good to go.

Now coming ito this year we have added another good young player in IT. Fine. So now we REALLY don't need any special hit. The guys who would make a competent organization win are already here. We don't need a savior. We just need to one way or the other find ourselves the right roleplayers (AND A COACH). Could be a kid in the draft. A free agent. Somebody in trade. Does not matter. The talent is here. The Bobcats...now they can't afford to bust. They have no talent. Everything has to count. Us? This is a cherry on top for us. We have specific needs now, not a general talent need.

So basically, we need our own Kawhi Leonard, who we should have drafted in the first place over the hype machine?

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I'm not going to say that Robinson is going to be the next coming of Bill Russell, but I think your selling him short if you only look at him as an offensive player. He's a terrific athlete, and a team player to go along with a great work ethic. If you needed him to play defense, then thats what he'd do. He's a little behind the curve because he had to play behind the Morris twins for two years, which really held down his minutes. But there's no reason he can't become a terrific defensive player. His lateral quickness is outstanding, as is his leaping ability.

Robinson really impressed me with his play against my Tarheels in the elite 8. He's a strong, all-around player. I'm not sure he'd be a great fit next to Cousins, though. If he could play the 3, I'd love to have him. However, I'm not sure he could defend NBA 3's. If he can, he'd likely be a nightmare matchup on the offensive end with his strength, power and relentlessness. As a 4, though, his size/strength is somewhat negated and he'd have to rely on his quickness. And while he's a good defender, he's not the long, athletic shot blocker that seems to be a natural fit with Cuz.

 

[Kingster]

Yes, the Kings need a better defensive pf than Thompson.

As an aside, Thompson shoots too much. I don't want Thompson posting up unless he has a guard on him; otherwise he's taking shots away from others that should take the shots. The roles on this team are not clearly defined enough.