Kevin_Martin_23
G-League
Now what are you implying? We didn't have Kevin martin in the game that we beat LA.
Kings-Mavericks discussion thread for Feb. 21
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chasen4r1
Starter
He's a rookie that has potential. That is why he was drafted late. Nobody is expecting him to come in and win any awards. The Kings are rebuilding and we are looking for a youth movement. Donte is hopefully a part of the movement so we wouldn't mind seeing him on the court every once and a while.
Kevin_Martin_23
G-League
Nocioni had a bad shotting night. Oh well, so did martin.
Showtime
Starter
What is with the lack of recognition for Salmons? The guy was the Kings' best player. Not only was he the best penetrator, he was their best defensive player. He was often the only guy who could create on his own. Noc is an overpaid Garcia. Of course this team will miss what Salmons brought, because this team doesn't have anybody who will play defense, or create their own shot, or get to the basket.
Kevin_Martin_23
G-League
As someone said on here. his negatives outweighed his positives.
theclash4u5
Starter
Exactly! Garcia = role player. Every team needs a Garcia. However, we now have two Garcia type players, and both are overpaid (IMO). Salmons was an Artest "light", he was a ball hog at times, but was the ONLY person on our team that would play defense and create their own shot. Martin? Garcia? Hawes? Thompson? None of these people can create their own shot.
Nighthawk1
Starter
Sounds great when you forget how selfishly he would play most the time. No one denies Salmons as a single player wasn't a good player I don't think, but as a team player in a team orientated game he left a lot to be desired
PurpleHaze
All-Star
Considering Nocioni has spent around 30 hrs on airplanes past couple days, from Chicago to Sac to Dallas and then arrives with no practice - not bad. Played 30 mins, 10pts, 3 assists, 7 boards, 4 fouls - vocal D, hard arse D, on Dirk. Soloman showed he has a nice stroke from deep, but probably won't be resigned for next season.
Nighthawk1
Starter
Artest light? You're giving him way too much credit at that point.. Artest was unguardable where salmons was. Artest was a shutdown defender, Salmons was a good one yea but not shutdown level of Artest.
JT is a rookie, Hawes is 20? 21? Donte is just now 21? Why don't you give these kids some time
Aenadin
Starter
thats the key.. the ball hog.... i dont mind having a couple of garcias in my team.. at least the ball will go around and the scoring load will be distributed evenly...
now when you have a salmons or a ballhog in your team being a vacuum on offense things get ugly.. id rather have garcias at least if one has an off shooting night the other two can compensate... a salmons if he is off... no matter how much he penetrates and slashes inside an off night is an off night add that to having a ball hog... team suffers
you dont always have to create your own shots if you have good chemistry with the other 4 players on the court... the more you pass the ball the more the defenders move and the more they move the more chances one of them would get a mismatch... ive seen a few situations where in hawes had a mismatch with a smaller player and salmons just slashed in you better take advantage of a situation like that
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theclash4u5
Starter
I'm all for playing the youth, don't get me wrong, but I just don't see any of them as the type of player that creates their own shot. Donte, maybe, but Hawes? Not so sure. JT/Hawes will be good, but they won't be the go to guy in a clutch situation.
Not that Salmons was that player either, though.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Oh common.
This team won 38 games last year.
This team with Salmons was on track for some 18.
Salmons being "Artest-Lite" = a 20 game drop?!
You've got to be kidding me.
Artest is a superior player to Salmons.
=LarryLegend=
Starter
I have always loved Nocioni's game. he is a great hustle player, and will start over Cisco soon.
Kevin Martin can't create his own shot? really?!? I mean there's plenty of shortcomings in Kevin's game that annoy me at times but never do I think to myself man I wish that Kevin Martin could create scoring opportunities without having them fed to him.
You're exactly right that Garcia is a role player and every team needs role players. You're even fairly right that Salmons was Artest light. The problem was that Salmons could never be a role player. If he was coming off the bench/not getting his shots, he wasn't going to perform or give you much else on the court. he pretty much has to be the centerpiece and star of a team in order to contribute. The problem is, his talent level is far closer to Garcia's then it is to Ron Artest's (and even Ron Artest fills a specific niche when he isn't the #1 guy on the court).
I think until Salmons figures out that he isn't a star and that he needs to figure out his roll, whether it be outstanding defender or bench sparkplug, he will always be a guy who doesn't quite fit with whatever team he's on.
Showtime
Starter
Unfortunately for people who share that viewpoint, you aren't getting the point that the positives John brought aren't so readily brought by others. Sure, he could be a black hole and turn the ball over, but so can everybody else. The flip side is that the positives he brought aren't things anybody else on the team does. Eventually, the Kings will need a player who can bring those things on offense and defense.
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We mentioned it earlier, but hearing him yell "High pick! High pick" bought him a lot of immediate respect in my book. I actually played it back at least 6-8 times to make sure my ears hadn't deceived me.
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As far as Salmons goes, he was the right player in the wrong place. And he wasn't going to fit in for the future, unless we wanted to get rid of Garcia and Donte Greene. People are praising his defense like he was DPOY or something. He was a big fish in a little pool, so to speak, when it came to defense. It's real easy to be the best at something on a team of guys who have no idea what defense is, let alone how to play it.
And I'm not cutting on John Salmons. I liked him. He had a singular mindset, however, that didn't include looking for open teammates, recognizing a collapsing defense and getting rid of the ball, etc. And we're all well aware that he just didn't perform well unless he started. What would we have done if we ended up with a legitimate starting small forward? Put Salmons on the bench and watch him sour and fade?
Showtime
Starter
Doesn't that make it that much more impressive when he limited his opposition? When you are all alone on defense, and can still stop top scorers, that's impressive.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
But they don't.
Not to his level at least.
If Garcia, Martin, Thompson, Hawes or anyone else don't get their shots they don't go into shutdown mode.
Salmons attitude was deplorable.
That attitude of his is a downfall. That single negative (in addition to everything else) killed whatever positives he brought.
I don't care about his production, because after the crap he pulled last year he was enemy number one in my eyes.
Nighthawk1
Starter
Much can be said about not deciding to trade of Nocioni when we reportedly had the chance... Our only hope is he might play well this season honestly and we can dangle him as trade bait potentially in the off season
theclash4u5
Starter
And what's going to happen if we find that legitimate starting small forward with Garcia and Nocioni on the team? Both are decent 6th men off the bench, but definately not starter material...unfortunately, both of them are being paid starter type money, even though they play the same position (although, Nocioni plays more SF/PF while Garcia does SG/SF).
Showtime
Starter
Garcia tends to jack up quick shots, often times being long 3's. He also has a tendency to force his penetration, and ends up charging. I wouldn't want him taking the same number of attempts John got unless he was on fire.
Thompson isn't ready for that many touches, and Martin already has his touches. When has Martin ever NOT gone into shutdown mode? He always looks to score.
I just don't get where the viewpoint came from that the team is better off without Salmons. When did he turn into Artest in that department?
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Addition by subtraction.
The guy was such a "me me me me!" player that it hurt everyone around him.
Look at the record of us as a team with Salmons as a "Number One" or "Best Player"
It wasn't working, and something NEEDED to be done.
Getting rid of him was the right thing to do.
theclash4u5
Starter
What's our record with Martin as a "Number One" or "Best Player"?
Nighthawk1
Starter
We all know Martin isn't a great #1 option... It's who will develop into that role... JT / Donte / <Griffin if picked> can develop into what we need hopefully.
vikinginferno
Starter
You don't always need a clear cut #1 option. Look at the Pistons a few years back. They didn't have a clear cut first man, they just had 5 very good players.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
I'll admit it isn't good.
And I'll say that was a bad argument on my point as this is just a terrible team.
What you can say though, is this team has always had a better flow when Salmons was out of the game.
Yes he put up his stats, but at what cost?
People knew when he got the ball he would either hoist it up or drive into triple coverage.
When he got yanked he pouted.
When he didn't start he pouted.
When he didn't get his shots, he pouted.
It was just painfully annoying having to go through his stuff night in and night out.
Now we have a hard nosed, team oriented player who has a winning attitude.
I'll welcome him with open arms, and laugh away as The Fish does the exact same thing in Chicago that he has done his whole career.
vikinginferno
Starter
This game Donte was still very trigger happy from the 3 point line, but it was good to see him dribble and drive a bit. One time he had a good drive, but wasn't sure if he should dunk or try a layup and he missed, but I am totally fine with that as this is a development period.
Nighthawk1
Starter
I agree with you... I think he has the skills to do anything offensively he just goes back to what he's most comfortable with and chucks 3's sometimes even though he is a pretty good shooter... I just think he needs to get some more play time and get more comfortable with the flow/speed of the game in the NBA
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