Kings-Mavericks discussion thread for Feb. 21
- Thread starter VF21
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What is with the lack of recognition for Salmons? The guy was the Kings' best player. Not only was he the best penetrator, he was their best defensive player. He was often the only guy who could create on his own. Noc is an overpaid Garcia. Of course this team will miss what Salmons brought, because this team doesn't have anybody who will play defense, or create their own shot, or get to the basket.
Exactly! Garcia = role player. Every team needs a Garcia. However, we now have two Garcia type players, and both are overpaid (IMO). Salmons was an Artest "light", he was a ball hog at times, but was the ONLY person on our team that would play defense and create their own shot. Martin? Garcia? Hawes? Thompson? None of these people can create their own shot.
Considering Nocioni has spent around 30 hrs on airplanes past couple days, from Chicago to Sac to Dallas and then arrives with no practice - not bad. Played 30 mins, 10pts, 3 assists, 7 boards, 4 fouls - vocal D, hard arse D, on Dirk. Soloman showed he has a nice stroke from deep, but probably won't be resigned for next season.
thats the key.. the ball hog.... i dont mind having a couple of garcias in my team.. at least the ball will go around and the scoring load will be distributed evenly...
now when you have a salmons or a ballhog in your team being a vacuum on offense things get ugly.. id rather have garcias at least if one has an off shooting night the other two can compensate... a salmons if he is off... no matter how much he penetrates and slashes inside an off night is an off night add that to having a ball hog... team suffers
you dont always have to create your own shots if you have good chemistry with the other 4 players on the court... the more you pass the ball the more the defenders move and the more they move the more chances one of them would get a mismatch... ive seen a few situations where in hawes had a mismatch with a smaller player and salmons just slashed in you better take advantage of a situation like that
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Kevin Martin can't create his own shot? really?!? I mean there's plenty of shortcomings in Kevin's game that annoy me at times but never do I think to myself man I wish that Kevin Martin could create scoring opportunities without having them fed to him.
You're exactly right that Garcia is a role player and every team needs role players. You're even fairly right that Salmons was Artest light. The problem was that Salmons could never be a role player. If he was coming off the bench/not getting his shots, he wasn't going to perform or give you much else on the court. he pretty much has to be the centerpiece and star of a team in order to contribute. The problem is, his talent level is far closer to Garcia's then it is to Ron Artest's (and even Ron Artest fills a specific niche when he isn't the #1 guy on the court).
I think until Salmons figures out that he isn't a star and that he needs to figure out his roll, whether it be outstanding defender or bench sparkplug, he will always be a guy who doesn't quite fit with whatever team he's on.
You're exactly right that Garcia is a role player and every team needs role players. You're even fairly right that Salmons was Artest light. The problem was that Salmons could never be a role player. If he was coming off the bench/not getting his shots, he wasn't going to perform or give you much else on the court. he pretty much has to be the centerpiece and star of a team in order to contribute. The problem is, his talent level is far closer to Garcia's then it is to Ron Artest's (and even Ron Artest fills a specific niche when he isn't the #1 guy on the court).
I think until Salmons figures out that he isn't a star and that he needs to figure out his roll, whether it be outstanding defender or bench sparkplug, he will always be a guy who doesn't quite fit with whatever team he's on.
Unfortunately for people who share that viewpoint, you aren't getting the point that the positives John brought aren't so readily brought by others. Sure, he could be a black hole and turn the ball over, but so can everybody else. The flip side is that the positives he brought aren't things anybody else on the team does. Eventually, the Kings will need a player who can bring those things on offense and defense.
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We mentioned it earlier, but hearing him yell "High pick! High pick" bought him a lot of immediate respect in my book. I actually played it back at least 6-8 times to make sure my ears hadn't deceived me.
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As far as Salmons goes, he was the right player in the wrong place. And he wasn't going to fit in for the future, unless we wanted to get rid of Garcia and Donte Greene. People are praising his defense like he was DPOY or something. He was a big fish in a little pool, so to speak, when it came to defense. It's real easy to be the best at something on a team of guys who have no idea what defense is, let alone how to play it.
And I'm not cutting on John Salmons. I liked him. He had a singular mindset, however, that didn't include looking for open teammates, recognizing a collapsing defense and getting rid of the ball, etc. And we're all well aware that he just didn't perform well unless he started. What would we have done if we ended up with a legitimate starting small forward? Put Salmons on the bench and watch him sour and fade?
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As far as Salmons goes, he was the right player in the wrong place. And he wasn't going to fit in for the future, unless we wanted to get rid of Garcia and Donte Greene. People are praising his defense like he was DPOY or something. He was a big fish in a little pool, so to speak, when it came to defense. It's real easy to be the best at something on a team of guys who have no idea what defense is, let alone how to play it.
And I'm not cutting on John Salmons. I liked him. He had a singular mindset, however, that didn't include looking for open teammates, recognizing a collapsing defense and getting rid of the ball, etc. And we're all well aware that he just didn't perform well unless he started. What would we have done if we ended up with a legitimate starting small forward? Put Salmons on the bench and watch him sour and fade?
But they don't.
Not to his level at least.
If Garcia, Martin, Thompson, Hawes or anyone else don't get their shots they don't go into shutdown mode.
Salmons attitude was deplorable.
That attitude of his is a downfall. That single negative (in addition to everything else) killed whatever positives he brought.
I don't care about his production, because after the crap he pulled last year he was enemy number one in my eyes.
Not to his level at least.
If Garcia, Martin, Thompson, Hawes or anyone else don't get their shots they don't go into shutdown mode.
Salmons attitude was deplorable.
That attitude of his is a downfall. That single negative (in addition to everything else) killed whatever positives he brought.
I don't care about his production, because after the crap he pulled last year he was enemy number one in my eyes.
And what's going to happen if we find that legitimate starting small forward with Garcia and Nocioni on the team? Both are decent 6th men off the bench, but definately not starter material...unfortunately, both of them are being paid starter type money, even though they play the same position (although, Nocioni plays more SF/PF while Garcia does SG/SF).
Garcia tends to jack up quick shots, often times being long 3's. He also has a tendency to force his penetration, and ends up charging. I wouldn't want him taking the same number of attempts John got unless he was on fire.
Thompson isn't ready for that many touches, and Martin already has his touches. When has Martin ever NOT gone into shutdown mode? He always looks to score.
I just don't get where the viewpoint came from that the team is better off without Salmons. When did he turn into Artest in that department?
Thompson isn't ready for that many touches, and Martin already has his touches. When has Martin ever NOT gone into shutdown mode? He always looks to score.
I just don't get where the viewpoint came from that the team is better off without Salmons. When did he turn into Artest in that department?
I'll admit it isn't good.
And I'll say that was a bad argument on my point as this is just a terrible team.
What you can say though, is this team has always had a better flow when Salmons was out of the game.
Yes he put up his stats, but at what cost?
People knew when he got the ball he would either hoist it up or drive into triple coverage.
When he got yanked he pouted.
When he didn't start he pouted.
When he didn't get his shots, he pouted.
It was just painfully annoying having to go through his stuff night in and night out.
Now we have a hard nosed, team oriented player who has a winning attitude.
I'll welcome him with open arms, and laugh away as The Fish does the exact same thing in Chicago that he has done his whole career.
And I'll say that was a bad argument on my point as this is just a terrible team.
What you can say though, is this team has always had a better flow when Salmons was out of the game.
Yes he put up his stats, but at what cost?
People knew when he got the ball he would either hoist it up or drive into triple coverage.
When he got yanked he pouted.
When he didn't start he pouted.
When he didn't get his shots, he pouted.
It was just painfully annoying having to go through his stuff night in and night out.
Now we have a hard nosed, team oriented player who has a winning attitude.
I'll welcome him with open arms, and laugh away as The Fish does the exact same thing in Chicago that he has done his whole career.
I agree with you... I think he has the skills to do anything offensively he just goes back to what he's most comfortable with and chucks 3's sometimes even though he is a pretty good shooter... I just think he needs to get some more play time and get more comfortable with the flow/speed of the game in the NBA
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