Kings @ Magic Game Thread

[GoGoGadget]

When did we get this bad? I know it has been for a while now. I am just trying to pinpoint when it all REALLY fell apart.

Realistically?

May 8, 2003.

 

[BMiller52]

It's the worst defensive frontcourt in the league. Brad Miller and Shareef are hardly terrible offensive players and plenty of teams would love to have them.

The kings need a shot blocker in the worst way, but there are other ways to get one aside from the lottery.

The franchise has to decide what kind of a team it wants to put together. That's the most important thing, by far. Defense, passing, shooting, size, pick one. There has to be a core theme to build on. Once you have that, stockpiling talent isn't as important, because you can pick up lesser players that fit your system.

The Kings look (at least to me) like a team that isn't sure how it wants to dominate a game. Bibby and Martin want to shoot, Ron and corliss want to bruise, Miller and Shareef want to play finesse...

It just seems like Sacramento has some good players, but their skills don't complement each other.

If you were management what direction would you pick?

 

[Kstat]

If you were management what direction would you pick?

I grew up watching a totally different style of ball than most of the people here, so I'd probably give a different answer.

I believe in defense. Whether it be through creating turnovers, being physical on the interior, or controlling the tempo, I think that it's easiest to dominate a game when the other team's will to compete is broken, and more often than not that happens where you make it a chore for them to compete.

Yes, there are plenty of ways to win games, but that's the one I'd pick. There's no better feeling to be than when you completely shut another team's water off and you're literally in complete control of who is going to take what shot on the other team.

If I were to take that direction on the Kings, though, there would have to be some real cleaning house, since only 2 or 3 of their players are suited for that style of play, and some well liked guys would be booted out of town.

Assuming that they don't want to completely gut the team, I think the best idea would be to win with ball movement, very similar to what the Pistons do currently. That said, Ron Artest would probably need to be moved, because he's best off in isolation situations, and the two styles have a tough time co-existing.

Miller and Bibby are both suited for it, and Kevin Martin I believe can be with hard work.

Shareef or Corliss would have to go too. Both would be best suited for the 6th man role on that type of team.

Oh yeah, and I'd fire Musselman, because he isn't that kind of coach at all.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

It probably is, but I think the championship difference is a big difference. A lot of the despair we have as Kings fans stems from several years of watching a team we loved getting oh, so close, to a championship, just to fall short. Then watching that beloved team torn to pieces, and having been on a downhill slide ever sense, it is just demoralizing.

Watching a team that once flourished suffer is never fun. I'm a big 49er fan and have suffered through their hard times after living through their glory days. But, honestly, the fact that the 49ers did win those SuperBowls makes a huge difference. Goal accomplished, time to rebuild. It's honestly a very different feeling than falling just short, and feeling like you may have lost the opportunity of a lifetime.

I do agree with you as a Kings and 49ers fan. But to be fair there is a huge difference between the two teams. The 49ers were great and then changed leadership and have been in a decade long decline before this recent resurgance with Nolan. This included the a number of bad drafts and the inability to sign good players. While the Kings were great (though did not win a championship) but are now going through a normal, but still short (so far) rebuilding cycle.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Not telling you how you should feel. Just saying that not making the playoffs can often cause more damage than a 13th or 14th draft pick can help.

I'm more than familiar with being miserable and routinely getting bounced out of the first round, and being miserable and going 20-62 and your season being over mid-april. It's because I'm familiar with both that I have such a strong opinion about the latter.

A winning environment is more important to keep than a slightly more talented player on draft day. Just my opinion. I've seen it turn into disaster so many times and the only thing that people remember is that San Antonio did it and got Tim Duncan.

I almost agree, but not quite. Yes, fans put too much stock in blowing their teams apart for the #1 pick which is hard even for the worst team and can also yield a bust. Too many cited esamples of teams who rised from the basement include teams who were terrible for a decade. However, limping into the playoffs is not a sign of future success either.

There are plenty of examples of teams that just missed the playoffs that vastly improved with smart drafts and key trades/signing. Just look at our Kings team in '99 or the Suns with Stoudemire and Nash in back to back years.

However, momentum does play a big role. Free agents like to sign with teams that have hope for future success. Supporting you though, even a great draft pick can only do so much with mediocre players surrounding them, especially in this current era where younger players (maybe not HS with the new rules, but certainly college freshman) are entering the draft and being selected high.

So I agree the Kings shouldn't sell Bibby and Artest for 30 cents on the dollar for a 10% better chance at a top 2 pick, but assuming that making the playoffs and moving back 3 picks is a good thing is also wrong. We are best off appearing competitive and hopeful for the future, while still having the best draft pick possible. As I have outlined in past posts, I think we are going in the right direction by not trading any of your young players/picks, while not sacraficing any cap room and keeping our tradeable players who we can make a future good move with.

As VF mentioned though, change/transition is hard and it is perfectly normal for fans to have an emotional reaction to it. The same way that it is always hard to break up with a signicant other, although we all know it is a part of life and part of finding an eventual partner.

 

[BMiller52]

I grew up watching a totally different style of ball than most of the people here, so I'd probably give a different answer.

I believe in defense. Whether it be through creating turnovers, being physical on the interior, or controlling the tempo, I think that it's easiest to dominate a game when the other team's will to compete is broken, and more often than not that happens where you make it a chore for them to compete.

Yes, there are plenty of ways to win games, but that's the one I'd pick. There's no better feeling to be than when you completely shut another team's water off and you're literally in complete control of who is going to take what shot on the other team.

If I were to take that direction on the Kings, though, there would have to be some real cleaning house, since only 2 or 3 of their players are suited for that style of play, and some well liked guys would be booted out of town.

Assuming that they don't want to completely gut the team, I think the best idea would be to win with ball movement, very similar to what the Pistons do currently. That said, Ron Artest would probably need to be moved, because he's best off in isolation situations, and the two styles have a tough time co-existing.

Miller and Bibby are both suited for it, and Kevin Martin I believe can be with hard work.

Shareef or Corliss would have to go too. Both would be best suited for the 6th man role on that type of team.

Oh yeah, and I'd fire Musselman, because he isn't that kind of coach at all.

I don't think it's possible to be a good defensive team with both Miller/Bibby on the team. And I agree that Ron should be moved.

Hopefully the Kings can get a good athletic PF in the draft(most likely at #10 or #11) like Darrel Arthur. Either that or a shotblocking center like Roy Hibbert. Still need to get a few more defensive/athletic players though.

 

[Kings113]

They didn't play pretty basketball, but last time I checked you didn't need to look pretty to play good basketball.

They played outstanding defense in the 2nd half and defensively rebounded extremely well. Last time I checked those were two facets of good basketball.

They were clearly dead tired playing a 4th game in 5 nights and they won a game nobody would have blamed them for mailing in. Give them some freakin credit at least, for one night.

I still can't figure out how the Kings didn't play good basketball tonight. Not everything is tied to shooting percentages and fancy dunks.

You'd expect a team playing 4 games in 5 nights to have tired legs, tough. They still played solid defense and rebounded really well.

Maybe, maybe not. Allan left because we had sea monkeys running things upstairs. There was no way we were going to be more than a 1st round exit with them running the show. Even the years we sunk into the lottery after that, we never were able to get any real help.

And yeah, while we got grant hill, it didn't turn into any great fortune for us. We went 28-54 his first year while Joe Dumars was babysitting him, and we never got out of the first round with him once he matured.

The best thing we got out of Grant hill was the rights to ben wallace.

The problem with drafting a superstar at #3 is the fact your team was actually the bad enough to get the #3 pick to begin with. So now you have a young kid being asked to carry a terrible team with little to no floor leadership.

Superstars don't win championships. Teams win championships. And nobody that can be called a missing piece wants to play for a basement lottery team, so it's very hard to improve.

Indeed x4. Good posts.

 

[slugking50]

Realistically?

May 8, 2003.

So sad but true.....

Heres the game recap:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2003050806

 

[BMiller52]

So sad but true.....

Heres the game recap:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2003050806

This really IS the most depressing game thread ever.

 

[Vlade4GM]

you can't run a franchise hoping you'll never have to blow a team up and rebuild from basically scratch. jerry west did it to perfection after the magic kareem squad died off. there comes a time where every franchise has to start over and sacrifice instant gratification and wanting to get exact value in return for your veterans. that's the point where you have to value picks and cap space a little more than anything else. also, let's be honest about bibby and artest.

bibby has a bit of an unstable contract which might worry some teams and lower his trade value not to mention his somewhat shaky season. artest well has his character issues again and i'm sure his value is shot to you know what, i really don't want to keep this guy around. get what you can for him (if you can) and then just start over without his distraction. i think that starting the process sooner is more important than getting ideal value from bibby and artest. no big free agent or trade is going to just fall into our laps, i can't even begin to say how naive it is to expect that. we have to rebuild through the draft, make our team desirable as a young developing team and save enough cap space to make that big free agent signing that ties it all together. that's how most contending teams started.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I don't think it's possible to be a good defensive team with both Miller/Bibby on the team. And I agree that Ron should be moved.

Hopefully the Kings can get a good athletic PF in the draft(most likely at #10 or #11) like Darrel Arthur. Either that or a shotblocking center like Roy Hibbert. Still need to get a few more defensive/athletic players though.

well with this day and age with all the rules changing to benefit the offense, it's just that much harder to build a defensive team. stern is ruining basketball.

 

[Vlade4GM]

So sad but true.....

Heres the game recap:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2003050806

"I just twisted it,'' said Webber

 

[Kingster]

Terrible win...

...worse draft position, lousy game. I guess Petrie is standing up and cheering after that one...The way things are going, the Kings will win against Atlanta, which will, "keep their playoff hopes alive." It's a thrill-a-dill. Nothing personal against Salmons - he's a high character guy who works hard - but the guy's game just bores me to tears.

 

[fnordius]

...worse draft position, lousy game. I guess Petrie is standing up and cheering after that one...

Hard to see why he'd be doing that, unless he's not really in control anymore, and is hoping that enough bloody noses will teach the Maloofs to stick to running casinos and let him run the team. In which case, I wish him all possible luck.

 

[SLAB]

...worse draft position, lousy game. I guess Petrie is standing up and cheering after that one...The way things are going, the Kings will win against Atlanta, which will, "keep their playoff hopes alive." It's a thrill-a-dill. Nothing personal against Salmons - he's a high character guy who works hard - but the guy's game just bores me to tears.

Word.

Every rotational player other than Martin, Artest, and Cisco are boring as all heck.

I wish we had a fun team again.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Hard to see why he'd be doing that, unless he's not really in control anymore, and is hoping that enough bloody noses will teach the Maloofs to stick to running casinos and let him run the team. In which case, I wish him all possible luck.

Well then he should take control, threaten to quit if he doesn't get full autonomy.

 

[Gargamel]

Superstars don't win championships. Teams win championships.

Not as often as superstars beat teams. Last year was a pretty good example of that.

When you've got a superstar and a good team around him, that's the holy grail.

 

[VF21]

Well then he should take control, threaten to quit if he doesn't get full autonomy.

Pretty big leap off assumption cliff right there...

We don't know what's gone on between the Maloofs and Petrie. People always act as though they're at opposition most of the time, but I don't recall anything concrete to substantiate that feeling.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Pretty big leap off assumption cliff right there...

We don't know what's gone on between the Maloofs and Petrie. People always act as though they're at opposition most of the time, but I don't recall anything concrete to substantiate that feeling.

Think it's just because the thought of Petrie's hands being tied is, somewhat, more comforting than the idea of him being in full agreement with some of the idiocy we've seen on display.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Pretty big leap off assumption cliff right there...

We don't know what's gone on between the Maloofs and Petrie. People always act as though they're at opposition most of the time, but I don't recall anything concrete to substantiate that feeling.

I'm just saying IF that's the case then he should threaten to quit. Basketball decisions should be made by the GM's, the more dissenting opinions you have at the top the less things get done.