[Game] Kings @ Lakers - Tuesday, Jan. 9 - 7:30 PT

Someone mentioned the show, "what if".
I just had to watch it.... I don't know why.
What if horry had missed that shot? Brought back all those bad memories. Wish I hadn't watched it.

I remember being at those games at Arco. I was at the TO game winner from Steve Young against the packers in the 99 wild card. I was at the stick for Alex smiths pass to Vernon David to beat the saints in the playoffs. Being at Arco for the lakers/kings in 2002 was still the greatest sporting experience I've ever had. I know that's why I'm currently so down on this franchise. I don't know if we will ever be back to where we were. Its why I don't care how many years pass, the hurt of that lakers series will never diminish for a lot of us older kings fans.

Sorry for rambling. It's not really a rivalry. For me it really is a hatred of the lakers and their fans.
 
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I really can't trash hield. Not when he has zero chance to get his stroke really going. I started out not liking buddy too much but man, I sure would like to see him get some extended consistent minutes to see what he can really do. As of now I just don't think our players can be judged fairly because they are constantly being yanked out of the game Willy Nilly.
In this case we have to blame Fox. As the point guard it’s his job to get his teammates involved and for Buddy to get no shots is a problem. Fox and ZBo just seems to be a bad combination for D’Arron and I’m not sure why.
 
Oh yeah, and then I watched THIS game...smh.

One word to sum it up for me: Brutal.

The Lakers are a talented bunch of kids, I will give them credit where credit is due. I won't deny their talent.

We, too, are a talented bunch of kids. We may not be as talented now as the Laker kids are, but we are talented. And we will be more talented in a few years. Even more talented than the Laker kids will ever be. Mark my words, Kings fans, because it WILL happen.

Maybe the Kings should practice guarding the 3 point line before our next date with the Laker kids????? Just, maybe???
 
In this case we have to blame Fox. As the point guard it’s his job to get his teammates involved and for Buddy to get no shots is a problem. Fox and ZBo just seems to be a bad combination for D’Arron and I’m not sure why.
I'm really not sure if you are being serious or not, but Fox is not playing well with Zbo because Fox thrives in an up tempo game with athlets running with him and with lots of spacing where he really can attack the rim. Zbo on the other hand is one of the slowest players in the league. When he is on the court the tempo breaks down as the goal is to dump the ball to Zbo in the post and watch him go to work.

I mean just watch this, starting at 2:30
Close game between Kentucky and Mississipi St. At the end, Kentucky decides to play four-out and have the C set really high screens for Fox. Fox is almost unguardable when he has space like this.

I said this before, Fox was #3 on my draft board but if the Kings are planning on playing a slow-paced post offense for the next 10 years, they should have just drafted Smith, Mitchell or Ntilikina.
Heck, against LA there was a scene where Fox was running a fast break just to have WCS posting up in his way, guarded by Lopez. Fox gave the ball to WCS and WCS of course missed the post shot. This is absolutely insanse. The Kings are probably the only team in the league right now that thinks a WCS post up on a bigger Lopez is more effective than creating space for their guards.
 
To those claiming the Kings want to "slow it down" how do you explain Joerger pleading with the Kings to speed it up from the sidelines all game long every game?

If ZBO is so slow why is he always there to pass to instead of sucking wind bring up the rear?
If Joerger wants the Kings to speed it up then he needs to have them run plays that move quickly. Joerger is essentially telling these guys to step on the accelerator so they can get to that red light faster. Half the time the Kings are just handing the ball off to each other 3 or 4 times in the half court. By time they're done, there's 10 seconds left on the shot clock and nothing has been accomplished.

Why does Fox bring the ball up, hand it to Bogdan, who then passes it outside the 3 point line to Koufos, who then goes and hands the ball right back to Fox? What's the point in all that? Now there's 10 seconds on the clock and they are no further into an offensive set than if Fox had just brought the ball up the court himself into the same spot. At one point last night the Lakers brought the ball up, ran a play, then had the ball deflected back by one of our players and Lonzo had to save it from going out of bounds. I looked down at the shot clock and there were still 13 seconds left on it. I was like holy s*** they are already on their second chance to score by time we are done playing grab ass outside the arc.

That clip that biltalent posted is a perfect example of how we should be running the offense many of the times with Fox out there. Let the center come out and set a screen up high with the shooters all set out wide. Then let Fox either drive to the basket and score or drive and kick once help arrives. This kid could be really good out there but right now everything is so clogged for him because this offense is designed for ZBo and Marc Gasol.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
Can you tell me again why this is a rivalry? Two teams that have been awful for years. Kings longer, of course. The last few minutes of this game was laughable.
the fans of both teams make this out to be a rivalry but the truth of the matter is, both teams are too young to even care enough to make it a rivalry.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
Fox & Bogs were the only two who really showed up. Trill and slow-bo lost this game big time with their terrible defense and brick fest they were laying on. Hield made his open shots but on the other end he hurt the team as well. Lakers didn't look like a team that was 1-9 in their last 10 thanks to the generous Kings defense allowing a hundred open shots and free drives to the lane without so much of as one hard foul to counter. Disappointing performance.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
Not sure about that. WCS played 28 minutes and came home with 8-4? Lonzo Ball out rebounded him with 11?
There was even a game, can't remember if it was two games or three ago, where Carter had more rebounds than Trill. It's silly. He's aggressive on the offensive end no doubt, but that same effort isn't there when it comes to boxing out and going and getting rebounds out of your zone, which is what good to great rebounds do. He definitely isn't that.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
Joerger mentioned it in his post-game presser. Didn't harp on it but seemed to be looking for something, anything to mask embarrassing Kings effort.
if you want to see effort, Mason will bring it. Sampson & Cooley will bring it, but those two are there for practice bodies and shouldn't really be getting minutes unless Joerger wants to prove a point.
 
There has been a lot of talk lately about playing both Randolph & Fox at the same time so I thought I would add some stats to the discussion:

upload_2018-1-10_7-47-54.png
*PPP = points per possession

So far this year, our team wins more with Fox off the court. It also shows that our team is more competitive with both Fox & Randolph on the floor than when it is just Fox on the floor.

However, Fox's stat line and INDIVIDUAL performance improves when Fox is on the court without Randolph:
upload_2018-1-10_7-47-59.png

So although Fox doesn't seem as effective or aggressive with Randolph on the court, the TEAM is still doing better with both of them on the floor (rather than just Fox). Given our current situation which should be focused on developing our young guys (especially the player we took 5th this year), we should be putting them in positions to succeed even if it results in more losses in the short term.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

That's right, I said it!
Staff member
Eh, they’re even worse homers IMO and very monotonous. I couldn’t do it
Eh, indeed. Homerism isn't the antithesis of accuracy, and monotony isn't the antithesis of being good. Vin Scully is widely considered to be one of the greatest broadcasters ever, and he was monotonous as all hell. For that matter, Gary Gerould is the greatest broadcaster that the Sacramento Kings have had, by a million miles, and he can be fairly monotonous at times. Lantz and Sunderland are pretty good analysts, even if they are homers.

I'll never understand how some Kings Fans came by the belief that slurping the other team was synonymous with 'unbiased', or that bombast and hyperbole are synonymous with 'entertaining'.
 
There has been a lot of talk lately about playing both Randolph & Fox at the same time so I thought I would add some stats to the discussion:

View attachment 7147
*PPP = points per possession

So far this year, our team wins more with Fox off the court. It also shows that our team is more competitive with both Fox & Randolph on the floor than when it is just Fox on the floor.

However, Fox's stat line and INDIVIDUAL performance improves when Fox is on the court without Randolph:
View attachment 7148

So although Fox doesn't seem as effective or aggressive with Randolph on the court, the TEAM is still doing better with both of them on the floor (rather than just Fox). Given our current situation which should be focused on developing our young guys (especially the player we took 5th this year), we should be putting them in positions to succeed even if it results in more losses in the short term.
I think the gripe of having Fox and Randolph on the court on the same time is because Fox will go through stretches of over relying on Randolph. This was pretty evident in the 2nd half when Fox was struggling with his confidence. It almost seemed like he was exclusively looking for Randolph. Also maybe I'm just too hypersensitive to this, but it also seems like Fox will find where Randolph is on the court and then set up the offense on whatever side he is on.
 
If Joerger wants the Kings to speed it up then he needs to have them run plays that move quickly. Joerger is essentially telling these guys to step on the accelerator so they can get to that red light faster. Half the time the Kings are just handing the ball off to each other 3 or 4 times in the half court. By time they're done, there's 10 seconds left on the shot clock and nothing has been accomplished.

Why does Fox bring the ball up, hand it to Bogdan, who then passes it outside the 3 point line to Koufos, who then goes and hands the ball right back to Fox? What's the point in all that? Now there's 10 seconds on the clock and they are no further into an offensive set than if Fox had just brought the ball up the court himself into the same spot. At one point last night the Lakers brought the ball up, ran a play, then had the ball deflected back by one of our players and Lonzo had to save it from going out of bounds. I looked down at the shot clock and there were still 13 seconds left on it. I was like holy s*** they are already on their second chance to score by time we are done playing grab ass outside the arc.

That clip that biltalent posted is a perfect example of how we should be running the offense many of the times with Fox out there. Let the center come out and set a screen up high with the shooters all set out wide. Then let Fox either drive to the basket and score or drive and kick once help arrives. This kid could be really good out there but right now everything is so clogged for him because this offense is designed for ZBo and Marc Gasol.
One of Fox's biggest problems is that he struggles to run an offense in the half-court. When you watch how Lonzo and Fox operate, it's night and day. Lonzo doesn't directly get all the assists, but he knows how to set up the offense. On the other hand, Fox seems to be mostly just a down-hill attacker in the 1/2 court. Yesterday, he did a great job taking his 3pters though. Although you say we waste 10s to get the ball back to Fox in the same place, I think it's because we use those 10s to move everyone around. However, it's pretty well-known that Fox isn't a good 1/2 court playmaker. Maybe the Kings are trying to force him to become a better one? That's the only logical explanation I see.

Even with all I said above, my biggest problem is that we see the Lakers constantly push out in transition. We hardly see the Kings push in transition which is Fox's biggest strength. What's up with that? When the Kings make a basket, the Lakers are already at the 1/2 court line within 5s. We saw all of this in the 1st quarter. I don't understand why the Kings don't the same. I really don't. We're a young, fast, and athletic team that doesn't know how to push up the floor? Yeah..I don't believe that.
 
To those claiming the Kings want to "slow it down" how do you explain Joerger pleading with the Kings to speed it up from the sidelines all game long every game?

If ZBO is so slow why is he always there to pass to instead of sucking wind bring up the rear?
Joerger has been pleading for a faster pace ever since he became the Grizzlies head coach for the 2013-14 season.

Check this: Every single team that Joerger has coached has seen them bottom 6 in the league in pace. BOTTOM 6! Now, in Memphis, it was put on the personnel as to why their pace was slow.. and that he tried speeding it up but the players revolted and wanted to go back to grit-n-grind. So, either Joerger again has personnel that can't play to the pace he wants (Then why sign and continue to play Zbo?), or he isn't that adept at implementing a pacier system. At this point, I'm leaning toward the latter.

Something is crazy-making with Joerger always purporting that he wants a faster pace, but then what we see on the court flies directly in the face of that. He is married to that grit-n-grind!
 
Sure seems like, other than Randolph, this team would be more successful pushing the pace and spreading the floor. Fox is fast and surrounded by decent shooters like Hield BB and George Hill. WCS and Labessiere both seem to do better with room to operate, coming off screens, and cutting to the basket. And why don’t the kings shoot more threes? We are ranked third in percentage right now.

I 100 percent believe we are better team without Randolph. It might be ugly at first as they adjust to fill his scoring load, but would help the team in the long run.
 
Willie and Bogdan spent almost zero time together and that affects Willie’s play.
They are just wasting time not putting Fox, Buddy, Bogdan, Skal, and Willie out there for as much time as possible. Fox, Buddy, and Bogdan looks like a perfect fit and Willie can play off ALL OF THEM. Skal should as well if they use him as a floor spreader. Skal's 3 point shooting potential is what makes him special offensively and the balance with that lineup is right there being buried.
 
I'm really not sure if you are being serious or not, but Fox is not playing well with Zbo because Fox thrives in an up tempo game with athlets running with him and with lots of spacing where he really can attack the rim. Zbo on the other hand is one of the slowest players in the league. When he is on the court the tempo breaks down as the goal is to dump the ball to Zbo in the post and watch him go to work.

I mean just watch this, starting at 2:30
Close game between Kentucky and Mississipi St. At the end, Kentucky decides to play four-out and have the C set really high screens for Fox. Fox is almost unguardable when he has space like this.

I said this before, Fox was #3 on my draft board but if the Kings are planning on playing a slow-paced post offense for the next 10 years, they should have just drafted Smith, Mitchell or Ntilikina.
Heck, against LA there was a scene where Fox was running a fast break just to have WCS posting up in his way, guarded by Lopez. Fox gave the ball to WCS and WCS of course missed the post shot. This is absolutely insanse. The Kings are probably the only team in the league right now that thinks a WCS post up on a bigger Lopez is more effective than creating space for their guards.

Couldn't agree more. I will give Willie credit, he's far better in the post and as a face up big than I anticipated him ever being. With that said, if your go to guys are Garrett Temple on the wing and Willie Cauley Stein inside you will find yourself at the bottom of the league in perpetual fashion. Valuable players no doubt, but the talent divide will get you every time. Willie as a function of the offense in a finishing role playing off of the Kings guards is just so obvious it hurts. He is now a legit spot shooter too. He's even able to take players off the dribble or shoot off the dribble or pass from the high post to cutters. With the Kings guards drawing and kicking to him he could be a monster, and when he becomes that it will put the other team in a compromising position defensively because the counter punch when they adjust is a completely open lane for Buddy to back cut, Fox to drive, and Bogdan to run two man game, drive, or stop in pop inside.
 
They are just wasting time not putting Fox, Buddy, Bogdan, Skal, and Willie out there for as much time as possible. Fox, Buddy, and Bogdan looks like a perfect fit and Willie can play off ALL OF THEM. Skal should as well if they use him as a floor spreader. Skal's 3 point shooting potential is what makes him special offensively and the balance with that lineup is right there being buried.
Is WCS a tweener, or can he play with beef not next to him? Isn’t that the complaint with the thin towers?

But I agree with the sentiment
 
Joerger has been pleading for a faster pace ever since he became the Grizzlies head coach for the 2013-14 season.

Check this: Every single team that Joerger has coached has seen them bottom 6 in the league in pace. BOTTOM 6! Now, in Memphis, it was put on the personnel as to why their pace was slow.. and that he tried speeding it up but the players revolted and wanted to go back to grit-n-grind. So, either Joerger again has personnel that can't play to the pace he wants (Then why sign and continue to play Zbo?), or he isn't that adept at implementing a pacier system. At this point, I'm leaning toward the latter.

Something is crazy-making with Joerger always purporting that he wants a faster pace, but then what we see on the court flies directly in the face of that. He is married to that grit-n-grind!
I think he's not getting that running the initial high post or low post offense is killing most of his clock because pace doesn't just mean getting open court finishes. Even the best teams only get hand full of those attempts a game. I counted multiple times that the Kings ran the ball up and instead of starting the half court set in a guard initiated spread pick and roll they ran high post big to guard hand off cuts that led to nowhere and which led to them running a last option pick and roll set with the clock running down. It's funny, it's almost the precise opposite of the flawed order Karl and Malone would run with. With Cuz this offense would be great, yet when he was here they started every set in pick and roll (not Cuz's strength because he's a better creator not a quick finisher like Willie) and had to resort to a last option post play or high post play with clock running down. Having pace means attacking the opposing team early in the clock because when you do that and need to go into another option should it not work you have some clock to play with. Also the one man cuts they have Buddy running are ridiculous and it's not his doing. They often run no screens for him and he's literally a decoy. Offenses should be geared around getting your best offensive options the best looks possible. Period.
 
Is WCS a tweener, or can he play with beef not next to him? Isn’t that the complaint with the thin towers?

But I agree with the sentiment

He's not the strongest guy, but it still goes back to the fact that there aren't that many bigs out there that are going to squash him into infinity. He's been holding his own pretty well from what I've seen and he's packed on some muscle this year. They are thin, but the mismatch goes both ways because they have to be guarded. Skal and Willie up high with the shooting/driving ability they have could give it back to the opposition just as much or more on most nights. I would like to see Skal at center more. He hasn't played there much but he's very unique as a rim protector with his length and again, in that Channing Frye role as a spreader he would create an ocean of space. I think George Karl's 5 out set would be best for them in combination with pick and roll play. Kosta is the Kings best pick and roll big by far and both Willie and Skal probably won't ever be the screener he is and thus the pick and roll player he is, but they both look like terrific possibilities as spread bigs while also good options in pick and roll.
 
Oh yeah, and then I watched THIS game...smh.

One word to sum it up for me: Brutal.

The Lakers are a talented bunch of kids, I will give them credit where credit is due. I won't deny their talent.

We, too, are a talented bunch of kids. We may not be as talented now as the Laker kids are, but we are talented. And we will be more talented in a few years. Even more talented than the Laker kids will ever be. Mark my words, Kings fans, because it WILL happen.

Maybe the Kings should practice guarding the 3 point line before our next date with the Laker kids????? Just, maybe???
For the most part, I agree with your post, but I wanted to point out that Brook Lopez did much of the 3 point damage in the 3rd quarter and he is no kid.