Kings JT to Atl discussed but declinded

[Capt. Factorial]

The way some people on this board selectively dismiss reports that are not positive to their viewpoint is comical.

Maybe less comical than you think. There's a difference between dismissing a report because you don't like what it says, and dismissing a report because it doesn't make sense.

A few days ago, when Stein reported that JT was "being shopped" there weren't a whole lot of skeptical voices, if any at all. It's a reasonable rumor. It's one that makes sense.

But after Petrie's denial, when Stein comes back with "Sac offered JT for Teague and got shot down", well then you start hearing people talk about how it's BS. Because it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for the Kings to offer, because they would be trading a big man who has proven to be useful (though not a star) for a tweener guard who has shown basically nothing when the team is not particularly short in guards. It doesn't make sense for the Hawks to reject because they don't have a particularly deep frontcourt. It kind of looks like Stein is trying to show Petrie up. Hence the incredulity.

 

[TyrekeGordon24]

I would trade thompson for teague in a heart beat.
Thompson has been a walking foul since he came into the league and has shown no signs of improvement in that area. Can't gaurd the pick and roll, when his man puts the ball on the deck his first reaction is to put both hands on the guy fouling him.
While this trade got rejected, we should continue to look for other options

 

[Larry89]

Hmm I still think JT has potential and would be a good big off the bench, I am also worried about the Donte-JT-Tyreke relationship they are all VERY good friends and I think they live with each other?

Not sure how trading Donte would affect team chemistry, maybe im just pulling at straws here

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Anybody who would trade Jason Thompson for Jeff Teague must really, really loathe Jason Thompson. Because you can't possibly think that Jeff Teague is any good.

 

[Bricklayer]

Hmm I still think JT has potential and would be a good big off the bench, I am also worried about the Donte-JT-Tyreke relationship they are all VERY good friends and I think they live with each other?

Not sure how trading Donte would affect team chemistry, maybe im just pulling at straws here

No, you're not. I've considerd that the x-factor with Donte and Thompson for some time now. I considered them more valuable because they were part of a young core developing chemistry and trust both oncourt and off, and breaking that up can set you back even if you win talentwise. Then Westphal came out and directly attacked precisely the guys I considered core chemistry guys, and damn if that doesn't worry me at least as much as the talent on court. I almost wonder if it was intentional, and what he could have been thinking. We don't have much of it right now, chemistry that is, and one of the real x-factors last year for Westphal was the team buying in, trusting him, viewing him as a father figure/coach who had their backs. No quicker way to destroy it then to attack everybody's pals.

 

[mr. moustache]

Our JT is way more valuable than their JT. Teague + a 1st makes a million times more sense.

Assuming we're unable or unwilling to resign our expiring bigs, our "stacked" frontcourt becomes completely empty. This trade does not make sense.

 

[TheWileyVet]

if this is true, thank goodness they said no. yuck

 

[bajaden]

That's not entirely correct. Josh Smith, who in his early years was thought of as possibly a 3 is now squarely a 4. He has very little range (although he did hit a 3 recently) and is best served around the basket and on the weakside. If, as you surmise, the Hawks were to get a servicable center (JT? Really?) Horford would slide over to the 4 and Smith would come off the bench? Come in as a 3?

I just don't see it. IMO, it has less to do w/getting a center and more so that Smith and Horford are their two best frontcourt players. An axium is that you play your best players as much as possible. A player of JT's caliber won't change that.

In the scenario you describe, I would have Smith moving to the SF position, which I think should be his true position. But thats not exactly what I was getting at. The Hawks don't have any real quality depth in their front line. Thompson would be a valuable player to have. As I said, I'm not a fan of Teague. If I'm a GM and someone offers me Thompson for Teague, I'd make that trade in a heartbeat.

 

[bajaden]

I would trade thompson for teague in a heart beat.
Thompson has been a walking foul since he came into the league and has shown no signs of improvement in that area. Can't gaurd the pick and roll, when his man puts the ball on the deck his first reaction is to put both hands on the guy fouling him.
While this trade got rejected, we should continue to look for other options

According to Synergy.com, Thompson was the best isolation defender on the Kings last year. He's actually turned into one of our better rotation defenders. He's a very good rebounder and hustle guy that runs the floor extremely well. His biggest flaw is man to man post defense and finishing around the basket. He's not perfect, but I wouldn't trade him for 3 Teagues. He was one of the better players on the floor in the last game. If you can't notice when players play well and only harp on when they play badly, then you lose all credibility.

 

[Sluggah]

If we're shopping JT...shouldn't we be playing him way more? Showcasing a bit?

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

No, you're not. I've considerd that the x-factor with Donte and Thompson for some time now. I considered them more valuable because they were part of a young core developing chemistry and trust both oncourt and off, and breaking that up can set you back even if you win talentwise. Then Westphal came out and directly attacked precisely the guys I considered core chemistry guys, and damn if that doesn't worry me at least as much as the talent on court. I almost wonder if it was intentional, and what he could have been thinking. We don't have much of it right now, chemistry that is, and one of the real x-factors last year for Westphal was the team buying in, trusting him, viewing him as a father figure/coach who had their backs. No quicker way to destroy it then to attack everybody's pals.

I would add Brockman to that list too. Not really tied with Evans-Greene-JT, but he was a fantastic chemistry guy last year.

I know the poster you quoted mentioned losing those guys in a trade would hurt chemistry, but I think thats what we are seeing now just by having them in limited minutes off the bench ( JT ) or not playing at all (Greene).

Up until this season, JT, Evans, and Greene were kind of 'our guys'. A big part of the teams identity. Now to Greene's credit, he's still been a fantastic cheerleader .. but you have to wonder if not playing him is hurting the team in more ways than just missing out on his production. It seemed like guys liked playing with him. Easily the most athletic guy on our team, and is one of the only guys on the Kings who can make plays that fire the team up. Block or Dunk, whatever, those plays that get the crowd going and get the team going too. I hate talking about Donte so much, but dammit why isnt he playing already? What does Antione Wright do that Donte cant do at an equal or higher level, while bringing size and energy? This is just a foolish decision by Westphal.

 

[Kingster]

We can do better than that. It's that simple. Sounds like we're looking for a pg though.

I'm curious. What young guards do you think are comparable to JT?

 

[Kingster]

According to Synergy.com, Thompson was the best isolation defender on the Kings last year. He's actually turned into one of our better rotation defenders. He's a very good rebounder and hustle guy that runs the floor extremely well. His biggest flaw is man to man post defense and finishing around the basket. He's not perfect, but I wouldn't trade him for 3 Teagues. He was one of the better players on the floor in the last game. If you can't notice when players play well and only harp on when they play badly, then you lose all credibility.

So give me a couple of names of young guards that are comparable to JT...

 

[Asaf]

So give me a couple of names of young guards that are comparable to JT...

massachusetteskingsfan suggested a trade with Boston, JT for Avery Bradley. I'm not a big fan of the idea of trading JT, but that's a trade I can get on board with.

 

[Kingster]

massachusetteskingsfan suggested a trade with Boston, JT for Avery Bradley. I'm not a big fan of the idea of trading JT, but that's a trade I can get on board with.

I'd take a chance on Bradley.

 

[Bricklayer]

I love how Jeff Teague, the #19 pick from 2 years ago is definitely not good enough for JT, but Avery Bradley the #19 pick from this year is a tasty muffin.

 

[King-Da-Yah]

I would trade thompson for teague in a heart beat.
Thompson has been a walking foul since he came into the league and has shown no signs of improvement in that area. Can't gaurd the pick and roll, when his man puts the ball on the deck his first reaction is to put both hands on the guy fouling him.
While this trade got rejected, we should continue to look for other options

I don't know, we should just get a stud rookie guard in the next draft, and lowball the heck out of JT when next we have to resign him. And then hope he learns to stop dribbling in the paint. In a perfect world right?

PS - When Ben Gordon buried that 3 at the end of the game Sunday and iced the win for Detroit I immediately thought of your screen name. I hate Ben Gordon!

 

[Asaf]

I love how Jeff Teague, the #19 pick from 2 years ago is definitely not good enough for JT, but Avery Bradley the #19 pick from this year is a tasty muffin.

With that line of reasoning, can I assume that you would reject a trade of JT for the #21 pick from 2006?

 

[King-Da-Yah]

I love how Jeff Teague, the #19 pick from 2 years ago is definitely not good enough for JT, but Avery Bradley the #19 pick from this year is a tasty muffin.

This. I think it is the allure of a new face, and an upside pick. Not that Teague isn't banking on upside too. I think the Bradley love stems from what we haven't seen from him in the pro's, but the potential we see in him. Whereas Teague is old news, he has been around already and he is not the second coming of D-Wade. Casual fans have not even heard of him! I like Teague myself, but I don't like getting rid of Thompson, and for a lot of the same reasons you have mentioned in this very thread Brick.

 

[rainmaker]

I'm curious. What young guards do you think are comparable to JT?

Not the easiest question to answer given I don't know JT's current value. As a starter, he's someone who has shown he can get you 12/8, and his rebounding an defense has improved over the last year. He's on a rookie contract, but hw much could he command on the free market hypothetically? JT's skillset and youth, are probably worth $4-$6M per, despite what his rookie contract says. Also, it's tougher nowadays to find a big with 2+ years experience, can play the 4 or 5 effectively, is a double double threat, can hit the 15 ft jumper, is an average passer, and still young, compared to guards which are easier to find.

JT right now could start for half the teams in the league, and would probably come off the bench for all the top 10-15 teams. So I would look at guys who are borderline starters right now, with room for improvement.

PG's to consider:
Raymond Felton
Lou Williams
Jrue Holiday
Jarret Jack
Sessions
Ty Lawson(who I'd love to steal from Den)
Dragic
Calderon

Some are better than JT, some are worse, but I think that's the level we're looking at.

SG's to consider:
Arron Afflalo(forum favorite)
Sonny Weems
Anthony Morrow
Correy Brewer
Korver
Ronnie Brewer
Redick
Sefolosha

Again, not all are the same level as JT, but in the neigborhood, and that's the type of talent I would expect in return without inluding cash, picks, or other players.

This would also assume the team we would look to trade with is in need of a big. Need always adds value.

 

[rhythmless]

With that line of reasoning, can I assume that you would reject a trade of JT for the #21 pick from 2006?

Zing!

 

[mr. moustache]

Drew Gooden(who we waived right?) signed a 32million dollar contract at 6.4m per year. JT is "worth" more. He may disgust you, but young bigs that are even servicable are worth a lot of money. I hope the new CBA halves player salaries, but JT will still be disproportionately valuable compared with a similarly talented wing.

 

[hrdboild]

With that line of reasoning, can I assume that you would reject a trade of JT for the #21 pick from 2006?

Without looking it up, was that Rajon Rondo?

 

[Asaf]

Without looking it up, was that Rajon Rondo?

You advance to the bonus round.

 

[bajaden]

To start with, its always hard to compare a guard to a power forward or a center. Its like trying to compare a good apple to a good orange. Not easy to do. But if I'm looking to deal Thompson for a Guard, then I'd like one with some sort of track record, because with Thompson you do know some of what your getting. He's going to bring energy and he's going to rebound. He's also a much better defender than he's given credit for. He doesn't have the greatest touch around the basket, and maybe he never will have. But he has a nice 15 foot jumper and he's a pretty good garbage player.

Teague has no track record worth mentioning. He's accomplished very little since being drafted. I don't know how much of that is his fault or whether its just lack of opportunity. But one thing is for sure. At the moment he's just not a very good outside shooter. As for what player that plays the guard position I would trade Thompson for, I don't know. To be honest I hadn't even thought about it. And I don't think Petrie has either. I do know I wouldn't trade for Teague.

Off the top of my head Xavior Henry springs to mind. But in truth, he hasn't proven anything either. Let me think about it for a while...

 

[Asaf]

By the way, I am not supporting a JT for Bradley trade because I think Bradley has equal or more value than JT. I am willing to get on board with it if JT wants to move because he can't get enough minutes in our logjam of bigs, and if the Kings feel the same way (that they won't be able to give him the minutes he deserves). I think JT deserves PT and the chance to develop, and while Teague does not look like someone that would be valuable to us, Bradley at least has the potential to be very valuable for us, especially due to our desperate need for a good perimeter defender.

 

[bajaden]

This. I think it is the allure of a new face, and an upside pick. Not that Teague isn't banking on upside too. I think the Bradley love stems from what we haven't seen from him in the pro's, but the potential we see in him. Whereas Teague is old news, he has been around already and he is not the second coming of D-Wade. Casual fans have not even heard of him! I like Teague myself, but I don't like getting rid of Thompson, and for a lot of the same reasons you have mentioned in this very thread Brick.

So far my opinion on both players has nothing to do with where they were picked in the draft. It has to do with my opinion of them in college. I didn't care much for Teague coming out of college. I can't say that I was raving about Bradley, but I like his upside better. He has the potential to be a terrific defender in the NBA. He's only 6'3" but he has very long arms. To go along with that, he's an outstanding athlete with terrific hops and end to end court speed. I have never seen him as a PG, but he handles the ball well enough and passes the ball well enough to be a very good combo guard. He's also a very good shooter from long distance.

Having said all that, he hasn't proven anything in the NBA yet either. But if I were going to gamble between them, then I would gamble on Bradley, who has a little of that IT factor in him. Something I've never seen in Teague..

 

[est.1999]

With that line of reasoning, can I assume that you would reject a trade of JT for the #21 pick from 2006?

I think he's trying to say that people have this image of players who have potential and they wanna stock pile them up so he's saying why is Bradley so wanted yet Teague isn't.

 

[Bricklayer]

With that line of reasoning, can I assume that you would reject a trade of JT for the #21 pick from 2006?

The #21 pick from 2006 has proved something.

And that's what this gets down to. Jason is a third big sort of guy in this league. Westphal being an idiot aside, he could be the #3 big for a lot of teams. He could be a starting PF for a handful. SO what's his value, expcially ina world where a solid high rotation big is > than a solid high rotation little? His value is a rotation guard at least. A third guard prefereably. Maybe even a low level starting guard who doesn't fit with his team.

Nobody would have traded JT for the #19 pick in last year's draft. And with good reason. #19 picks bomb out 50% fo the time. Become bit or roleplayers another 30% fo the tiem. Major players maybe 1 in 5. Maybe Bradley is that 1 in 5. Then again maybe so is Teague, who the Hawks were thinking of trying to move in as the starter ahead of Bibby until he got hurt in camp. More likely they are both nothing. JT is 6'11" 250lbs, youngish and has career averages of 12pts 8rebs. That's not nothing.

 

[Asaf]

The #21 pick from 2006 has proved something.

So did Teague apparently. I don't know him that well, but gathering from the reactions here he has proved that he is worthless for the Kings. Bradley at least has potential to be valuable.