Kings-Jazz-Clips

[Smills91]

This deal seemed to get some priase from RealGM trade board posters...so I thought I'd post it here. I think it's a fair deal value-wise and makes sense for talent, type of talent and fit for all three teams.

Kings deal: Bibby
Kings receive: Ak-47

Clips deal: Cassell/Maggette
Clips receive: Mike Bibby

Jazz deal: Ak-47
Jazz receive: Cassell/Maggette

Kings get their athletic shotblocker who when paired with Artest could make the Kings one of the best defensive, up-tempo teams in the league. Salmons would potentially start at PG who is also an excellent defensive player...if the Kings get stuck in the halfcourt, Brad Miller and AK-47 have phenomanol passing/playmaking skills and could very well act like the PG of the half-court sets allowing Artest/Martin/Salmons to be the primary scorers. I think it's a very complimentary roster...and I'd look to move Kenny and/or SAR for some backcourt helps(i.e. Duhon, Alston, Snow, etc.).

Clips get their starting PG.

Jazz get maggette to replace AK and save a lot of money in the process. Cassell could bring some strong vet leadership for a playoff push.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

This deal seemed to get some priase from RealGM trade board posters...so I thought I'd post it here. I think it's a fair deal value-wise and makes sense for talent, type of talent and fit for all three teams.

Kings deal: Bibby
Kings receive: Ak-47

Clips deal: Cassell/Maggette
Clips receive: Mike Bibby

Jazz deal: Ak-47
Jazz receive: Cassell/Maggette

Kings get their athletic shotblocker who when paired with Artest could make the Kings one of the best defensive, up-tempo teams in the league. Salmons would potentially start at PG who is also an excellent defensive player...if the Kings get stuck in the halfcourt, Brad Miller and AK-47 have phenomanol passing/playmaking skills and could very well act like the PG of the half-court sets allowing Artest/Martin/Salmons to be the primary scorers. I think it's a very complimentary roster...and I'd look to move Kenny and/or SAR for some backcourt helps(i.e. Duhon, Alston, Snow, etc.).

Clips get their starting PG.

Jazz get maggette to replace AK and save a lot of money in the process. Cassell could bring some strong vet leadership for a playoff push.

The kings aren't uptempo with artest. Have you watched any of the games that artest has been in? He's not an uptempo player. the kings will need to clear some crap contracts if the kings move bibby and take on AK's salary. AK has a long contract and will be at around 17m/yr at the end of his contract. Love AK but not his contract.

This deal isn't bad and i see how it works for all the parties. The kings will be financially strapped with a move for AK.

 

[Smills91]

The kings aren't uptempo with artest. Have you watched any of the games that artest has been in? He's not an uptempo player. the kings will need to clear some crap contracts if the kings move bibby and take on AK's salary. AK has a long contract and will be at around 17m/yr at the end of his contract. Love AK but not his contract.

This deal isn't bad and i see how it works for all the parties. The kings will be financially strapped with a move for AK.

I don't think Ron will have any problems in an up-tempo system...we're not UP TEMPO because our frontcourt's and PG aren't uptempo. Brad/SAR/Bibby
are more halfcourt players...it's okay to have 1-2 players NOT uptempo players and still be uptempo..but having 3-4 just won't work...moving Bibby for AK is a step in the right direction...While Ron may NOT be a pure uptempo player like Marion per se...he has no problem getting up and down the court and wouldn't be a liability there.

Look at the rest of the team...

Martin/Garcia/Douby/Williams subbing in AK for Bibby adds to that CORE. AK compliments Brad and his ability to rebound and outlet on D, and faciliate the Offense on the other end.

We're halfcourt because of of those players, not because of Ron.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Solid deal for all sides, although...

I'm not sure if Petrie wants to fulfill talent over position alone. Without Bibby, there's no doubt we'll need another qualified "pure" PG out there; I mean, while Salmons and Garcia are versatile enough to switch over to spot-duty PG positions, they're not fast enough to guard the smalls on defense nor are they proficient enough in their passing ability to run the offense full time. And we certainly don't want Orien Greene or Mustafa Shakur to suddenly take those PG reinsm nor do we want to pressure Quincy Douby to become a PG so quickly. Yes, Kirilenko and Miller are willing passers, and we may thrive back in a semi Princetonian offense a la Divac and Webber, but we still need that pure PG. As much as I like the tandem of Artest and Kirilenko, and because of that I am a willing acceptor of the trade, perhaps another trade would be called for as you said.

Utah has courted Maggette in the past as well, and that really makes sense; they signed him to an offer sheet back when he was a RFA and the Clips, in the beginning of the Donald Sterling philanthropy era, actually matched it. That being said, though, I'm not sure if the Clips want to trade Maggette for Bibby at this stage; now that Brand is injured, don't they need someone to ACTUALLY take the scoring load? While Bibby is not a bad scorer, by any means, Maggette is a pure scorer and can actually prove to the team that he's an All-star, perhaps. After Bibby's subpar season last year (although he should bounce back), I'm not sure if the Clips want his contract--they still have the solid services of Brevin Knight.

 

[perezident]

I dnt like it smills. It leaves us at a disadvantage at the PG spot.. Also we lose our chances at winning now if we just flat out trade bibby

 

[Smills91]

Roast Beef..I'm really high on the idea of Salmons play the bulk of the minutes at the 1. I'd possibly also like to see Kenny dealt for someone like an Arroyo/Garrity package or SAR for a Duhon/Khryapa package.

But even if we stay at just Salmons/Douby/Greene/Shakur I like that rotation honestly. douby gets minutes there. Salmons IMO is there to take out the other teams PG's...he can legitimately guard the Arenas', Parkers', Ford's with the best of them(those guys are near indefensible, he can at least slow them down as good as any.) However, Salmons gives a huge HUGE advantage on offense as he'd be 6'7" and those same PG's wouldn't be able to guard salmons in the post.

C: Williams
PF: Kirilenko
SF: Artest
SG: Martin
PG: Salmons

NO ONE would score on that line-up...so maybe I just like Salmons a lot. But I think he'd do fine with 30 minutes at the 1 each night.

 

[BritishColumbia]

It is a good deal ... however, we will not get AK ... we should forget about it

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Smills, I love tall lineups with versatility as well, so Kirilenko bodes well with me. Salmons as starter could be interesting, as a 6'7" tall PG, but the reason I show skepticism is that Salmons isn't really a good enough passer. He's an excellent passer coming from the off-guard position and can play point at spurts, but he too often disappeared at spurts and showed his mediocrity, doing little to impact the game in many others. He's got an inconsistent jumpshot, one I question whether that can make defenses pay as well. To me, I wouldn't put him as full time point but would prefer to use him for versatility purposes more (switch him between positions over the course of teh game). And I just wonder, if we do trade Bibby, whether we can actually get a qualified legitimate starting PG that has at least 1/2 of Bibby's talents.

 

[hrdboild]

I'd been trying to construct a workable AK trade, but the one you've got here is way better than anything I could come up with. The Clipps know that Cassell is pretty much done and they've been actively looking to unload Maggette for awhile. They'd probably jump at the chance to score Bibby and hope he's that last piece to put them in contention once Brand returns (maybe next year). Utah obviously would prefer to keep AK, but assuming they do trade him the minimum is a young wing player with some star potential. Maggette seems to fit the bill, and at a reasonable price too. I'm sure they'd welcome salary cap relief in the form of Cassell's contract too. And for us, I don't see Utah wanting to take on Artest. Considering his reputation, that's probably the last place he'd ever end up. Bibby's salary matches better but they're already set at PG with Deron Williams so we need that third team to take Bibby. The Clipps are a great fit. I know you didn't need me to explain your trade for you, but I thought it was particularly brilliant and maybe not everyone can see why.

Whether it's a good deal for us, is open to interpretation. If you think AK47 has fizzled out permanently, then we'd be better off keeping Bibby. I think his recent MVP performance in the Eurobasket tournament suggests otherwise. I don't think Bibby comes back when his current contract ends, so trading him away now would be a better return on our investment -- even if AK's salary escalates enormously. Certainly that would be the end of any "salary cap relief" talk in the forseeable future. You're going to have to be comfortable playing AK at the PF spot for the bulk of his minutes, but I don't think that's a problem for us. He rebounds well and obviously his interior defense is exceptional. That's what we're looking for from the PF spot anyway. Not to mention he's got better size for that position than most of the players we've been throwing out there lately.

The only real problem for us then is replacing Bibby at PG -- and that's not easy to do. That wouldn't happen this year, so you're looking at the upcoming draft as your best shot. Fortunately, there's a handful of great lead guard prospects expected to enter next year's draft. Rose and Mayo at the top, and also Darren Collison and Ty Lawson lower in the first round. I think Salmons/Douby/Shakur/Greene all would be decent one-year fill-ins for the position in a year we don't expect to contend anyway. Douby, Shakur, and Greene for sure would benefit greatly from the extra experience. Losing Bibby is a huge loss for this team, but I think you have to recognize at this point that Bibby's time in Sacramento is limited as it is.

I don't think this happens, but if we do somehow get AK on the Kings, this is by far the most likely scenario I've heard.

 

[HaraWish]

Well, how about this?

Kings

Incoming : AK
Outgoinh : Artest, KT

Clippers

Incoming : Artest, KT
Outgoing : Sam Cassell, Maggette

Jazz

Incoming : Sam Cassell, Maggette
Outgoing : AK

Yes, it's slightly modified version. Instead of Bibby, Artest and KT are available. This scenario works under salary.

I modified original scenario because IMO the modified version is more attractive to Clippers. Clippers lose Brand this season, so they badly need a PF, maybe even KT. And Artest. They wanted Artest before.

And getting bibby without Brand will not helpful. Especially when Brand will come back after one year, Bibby will be able to be FA. (Right?)

For Kings, I also prefer my modified version. We keep Bibby, who is declining but still solid PG offensively. And we trade two previous starters to one player, which means young players can have more playing time. For example, when AK plays 3, Reef and JUSTIN back up. When AK plays 4, GARCIA and salmons backup.

Those are pros, and we also have cons - the huge contract of AK. Because of that and some injury, I'm not a huge fan of AK being a king. But if it happens, I prefer keep Bibby, and give them Artest and KT (or Reef).

 

[VF21]

KT is not attractive as a PF to any other team for the same reason he's not attractive to us. He's undersized and he simply cannot battle with the other PFs, especially in the western conference.

 

[HaraWish]

Yeah, I know.

But Clippers badly need a PF, and KT at least contribute some rebounds.

.....

OK. Forget it. I was so stupid to try to sell KT.

 

[perezident]

Yeah, I know.

But Clippers badly need a PF, and KT at least contribute some rebounds.

.....

OK. Forget it. I was so stupid to try to sell KT.

modified version is not all that bad imo..i like it. But i just have that pipe dream of wanting AK and Artest on the same team. Artest would really bring out AK's game. Because Artest is a motivator, he likes ppl who work hard!

 

[Smills91]

Smills, I love tall lineups with versatility as well, so Kirilenko bodes well with me. Salmons as starter could be interesting, as a 6'7" tall PG, but the reason I show skepticism is that Salmons isn't really a good enough passer. He's an excellent passer coming from the off-guard position and can play point at spurts, but he too often disappeared at spurts and showed his mediocrity, doing little to impact the game in many others. He's got an inconsistent jumpshot, one I question whether that can make defenses pay as well. To me, I wouldn't put him as full time point but would prefer to use him for versatility purposes more (switch him between positions over the course of teh game). And I just wonder, if we do trade Bibby, whether we can actually get a qualified legitimate starting PG that has at least 1/2 of Bibby's talents.

No but IMO Ron/AK/Brad are all PHENOMENAL passers overall, and some of the best at their respective positions. Salmons would just need to play D...bring the ball up and be an opportunistic scorer.

Brad/AK/Ron can facilitate a LOT of the offense and Kevin would be the primary scorer in that line-up.

 

[Smills91]

I'd been trying to construct a workable AK trade, but the one you've got here is way better than anything I could come up with. The Clipps know that Cassell is pretty much done and they've been actively looking to unload Maggette for awhile. They'd probably jump at the chance to score Bibby and hope he's that last piece to put them in contention once Brand returns (maybe next year). Utah obviously would prefer to keep AK, but assuming they do trade him the minimum is a young wing player with some star potential. Maggette seems to fit the bill, and at a reasonable price too. I'm sure they'd welcome salary cap relief in the form of Cassell's contract too. And for us, I don't see Utah wanting to take on Artest. Considering his reputation, that's probably the last place he'd ever end up. Bibby's salary matches better but they're already set at PG with Deron Williams so we need that third team to take Bibby. The Clipps are a great fit. I know you didn't need me to explain your trade for you, but I thought it was particularly brilliant and maybe not everyone can see why.

Whether it's a good deal for us, is open to interpretation. If you think AK47 has fizzled out permanently, then we'd be better off keeping Bibby. I think his recent MVP performance in the Eurobasket tournament suggests otherwise. I don't think Bibby comes back when his current contract ends, so trading him away now would be a better return on our investment -- even if AK's salary escalates enormously. Certainly that would be the end of any "salary cap relief" talk in the forseeable future. You're going to have to be comfortable playing AK at the PF spot for the bulk of his minutes, but I don't think that's a problem for us. He rebounds well and obviously his interior defense is exceptional. That's what we're looking for from the PF spot anyway. Not to mention he's got better size for that position than most of the players we've been throwing out there lately.

The only real problem for us then is replacing Bibby at PG -- and that's not easy to do. That wouldn't happen this year, so you're looking at the upcoming draft as your best shot. Fortunately, there's a handful of great lead guard prospects expected to enter next year's draft. Rose and Mayo at the top, and also Darren Collison and Ty Lawson lower in the first round. I think Salmons/Douby/Shakur/Greene all would be decent one-year fill-ins for the position in a year we don't expect to contend anyway. Douby, Shakur, and Greene for sure would benefit greatly from the extra experience. Losing Bibby is a huge loss for this team, but I think you have to recognize at this point that Bibby's time in Sacramento is limited as it is.

I don't think this happens, but if we do somehow get AK on the Kings, this is by far the most likely scenario I've heard.

Pretty much sums it up. I'm okay taking on AK's salary and not worrying about cap relief. With the number of good PG's in the draft, we nab one and then maybe look to deal either Kenny or SAR for some additional backcourt depth. SAR for Duhon is a favorite of mine. Or I'd settle for Kenny to Orlando for Arroyo/Garrity(if they were to ever realize they need depth at PF. Maybe even KT to Houston for Rafer/filler.

With just two deals, we've completely changed the landscape of our roster and Identity altogether. Suddenly Brad becomes a valuable part of the roster again with his playmaking ability. Hawes would be mentored to take over that role. When the contracts of Brad/SAR/Kenny become expirings...we could potentially have the contracts necessary to add a disgruntled star in 09 by adding in some a young pup on a rookie deal and/or picks.

Artest/Kirilenko/Martin is a mighty fine core.

Hawes/Garcia/Salmons/Brad/Douby are a nice supporting cast as well.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Well, how about this?

Kings

Incoming : AK
Outgoinh : Artest, KT

Clippers

Incoming : Artest, KT
Outgoing : Sam Cassell, Maggette

Jazz

Incoming : Sam Cassell, Maggette
Outgoing : AK

Yes, it's slightly modified version. Instead of Bibby, Artest and KT are available. This scenario works under salary.

I modified original scenario because IMO the modified version is more attractive to Clippers. Clippers lose Brand this season, so they badly need a PF, maybe even KT. And Artest. They wanted Artest before.

And getting bibby without Brand will not helpful. Especially when Brand will come back after one year, Bibby will be able to be FA. (Right?)

For Kings, I also prefer my modified version. We keep Bibby, who is declining but still solid PG offensively. And we trade two previous starters to one player, which means young players can have more playing time. For example, when AK plays 3, Reef and JUSTIN back up. When AK plays 4, GARCIA and salmons backup.

Those are pros, and we also have cons - the huge contract of AK. Because of that and some injury, I'm not a huge fan of AK being a king. But if it happens, I prefer keep Bibby, and give them Artest and KT (or Reef).

not a bad trade proposal. if the clips think artest is that missing piece i think they might do it.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Pretty much sums it up. I'm okay taking on AK's salary and not worrying about cap relief. With the number of good PG's in the draft, we nab one and then maybe look to deal either Kenny or SAR for some additional backcourt depth. SAR for Duhon is a favorite of mine. Or I'd settle for Kenny to Orlando for Arroyo/Garrity(if they were to ever realize they need depth at PF. Maybe even KT to Houston for Rafer/filler.

With just two deals, we've completely changed the landscape of our roster and Identity altogether. Suddenly Brad becomes a valuable part of the roster again with his playmaking ability. Hawes would be mentored to take over that role. When the contracts of Brad/SAR/Kenny become expirings...we could potentially have the contracts necessary to add a disgruntled star in 09 by adding in some a young pup on a rookie deal and/or picks.

Artest/Kirilenko/Martin is a mighty fine core.

Hawes/Garcia/Salmons/Brad/Douby are a nice supporting cast as well.

i cringe thinking artest in the kings future. the guy is a loose lugnut on a vehicle. when he goes off, he takes the team w/ him. say nay to artest in 07/08 =)

 

[thedofd]

Quick PG...

"I'm not sure if Petrie wants to fulfill talent over position alone. Without Bibby, there's no doubt we'll need another qualified "pure" PG out there; I mean, while Salmons and Garcia are versatile enough to switch over to spot-duty PG positions, they're not fast enough to guard the smalls on defense nor are they proficient enough in their passing ability to run the offense full time. And we certainly don't want Orien Greene or Mustafa Shakur to suddenly take those PG reinsm nor do we want to pressure Quincy Douby to become a PG so quickly."


The reason we are so poor defensivley is because we have a PG(Bibby) who can't stop other PGs from getting into the lane and a C or PF who can't block shots once their in the lane. In this trade we gain something we haven't had for some time, a starter who blocks shots consistently. This in turn would make up for the fact we have a bigger, yet slower starter @ PG. Be it Salmons or Garcia or whomever, AK47 is there to protect our paint now. This acquisition lets us start a big PG. How many floaters and lay-ups in the lane does Tony Parker put up against AK?
Also, in our second unit we have Moore who has also shown to block some shots. So IMO we can afford to start a slower PG in Bibby's stead. Besides are Salmons/ Garcia even slower than Bibby?

As far as passing goes, get Yoda(Pete Carrill) back and run the offense through Miller, AK, and Artest.

 

[Smills91]

"I'm not sure if Petrie wants to fulfill talent over position alone. Without Bibby, there's no doubt we'll need another qualified "pure" PG out there; I mean, while Salmons and Garcia are versatile enough to switch over to spot-duty PG positions, they're not fast enough to guard the smalls on defense nor are they proficient enough in their passing ability to run the offense full time. And we certainly don't want Orien Greene or Mustafa Shakur to suddenly take those PG reinsm nor do we want to pressure Quincy Douby to become a PG so quickly."


The reason we are so poor defensivley is because we have a PG(Bibby) who can't stop other PGs from getting into the lane and a C or PF who can't block shots once their in the lane. In this trade we gain something we haven't had for some time, a starter who blocks shots consistently. This in turn would make up for the fact we have a bigger, yet slower starter @ PG. Be it Salmons or Garcia or whomever, AK47 is there to protect our paint now. This acquisition lets us start a big PG. How many floaters and lay-ups in the lane does Tony Parker put up against AK?
Also, in our second unit we have Moore who has also shown to block some shots. So IMO we can afford to start a slower PG in Bibby's stead. Besides are Salmons/ Garcia even slower than Bibby?

As far as passing goes, get Yoda(Pete Carrill) back and run the offense through Miller, AK, and Artest.

I think Salmons guards the little, quick PG's with the best of them. He can handle a Gilbert Arenas as good as anybody, as well as the TJ Ford's or Parker's as well. But then by playing Salmons at the 1 on Offense we suddenly have a HUGE MISMATCH that may force the other team to adjust...Salmons would MURDER Ford or Parker in the paint.