Kings-Heat

[KingsCitizen]

Kings-Heat

Kings Trades:
Salmons
Miller
Moore

Heat Trades:
Haslem
Marion

Heat will get 2 Bigs which will boost up their dwarf front court which is currently the smallest this season with Haslem (6'8") at Center.
They will get veterans that will be able to work with Wade long enough until his player options by 2010.
If Riley was able to live with Blount as C last season, I think he will welcome this.
They will get rid of Marion who is playing on his last season and removes uncertainty on their roster for the next season.

Kings will get a solid starting SF(Marion), who has expiring contract, which either way will help speed up full rebuilding. Hawes and Thompson will get the real playing time they should have along with Shelden and then Haslem will be a good scrappy PF from the bench.

 

[Emma]

I like this deal, most excellent. And we can play in either of the next two free agent classes, whichever we prefer. Marion will surely be a plus to any premier free agent if we go crazy and decide to spend big both summers.

 

[Kings Faithful]

This is an excellent trade. This way we make room for our future but without tanking this season, and on top of it we remain players for both FA markets. And the Heat get a 20 ppg player, a 7ft center who can compliment wade perfectly, and a hustle player, it also gives them the cash to resign Wade since they all expire in 2010. Ohh, this makes me giddy. Too bad we have no influence what so ever on the Kings FO...

 

[Kings Faithful]

Not to mention both of those guys average at least 8.5 rpg which is better than any player on our team....so i would welcome that aspect with great joy. Marion is having a mediocre scoring season with only 12 ppg this season. Some say its because he doesn't have Nash to assist him anymore, i think it has more to do with him being the number 2 option behind Dwayne Wade. On the Kings i would expect Marions ppg to go up to at least 16 ppg or or maby 18 ppg.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yay, another 6'7" forward!!! I vote in Kenny as the backup!

Seriously, don't mind the deal at all but I think the Heat are still pretty high on Haslem. Although playing him at C has been a miserable failure IMO.

 

[SacKings7]

This is an excellent trade. This way we make room for our future but without tanking this season, and on top of it we remain players for both FA markets. And the Heat get a 20 ppg player, a 7ft center who can compliment wade perfectly, and a hustle player, it also gives them the cash to resign Wade since they all expire in 2010. Ohh, this makes me giddy. Too bad we have no influence what so ever on the Kings FO...

I like the trade as well, but Salmons is NOT a 20ppg scorer in this league. Just because he's having a good season with us means nothing. He's a good player on a bad team.

 

[Prince_XY]

Kings-Heat

Kings Trades:
Salmons
Miller
Moore

Heat Trades:
Haslem
Marion

Heat will get 2 Bigs which will boost up their dwarf front court which is currently the smallest this season with Haslem (6'8") at Center.
They will get veterans that will be able to work with Wade long enough until his player options by 2010.
If Riley was able to live with Blount as C last season, I think he will welcome this.
They will get rid of Marion who is playing on his last season and removes uncertainty on their roster for the next season.

Kings will get a solid starting SF(Marion), who has expiring contract, which either way will help speed up full rebuilding. Hawes and Thompson will get the real playing time they should have along with Shelden and then Haslem will be a good scrappy PF from the bench.

I don't know why we are so in hurry on getting rid of Miller just to acquire two veteran players who will most definitely slow down the development of our young "bigs", especially we have a coach who has the propencity to give the veterans more minutes.

In this trade we lose the still serviceable center Miller who currently makes it possible for us to experiment on Hawes playing the power forward position. Who knows maybe Hawes can be develop into the " REAL BIG power forward " that we need afterall?

Hawes=Webber and Miller=Divac.

Webber/Divac = Hawes/Miller.

Bad idea?

Moreover, Miller takes care of the glaring need for us to have a very good back-up center for Hawes in the future if we are to become an elite team, especially if we can re-sign him on 2010 at a cheap price. If not, then use the money for free agency, or sign/trade deal to acquire whatever kind of player we need.

Did we forget the old glorius Kings team of Webber and Divac?

That team was so good because we have a ( flipflopping defensive ) center who is so good as a passer and making plays. Because of this Divac ( who actually grabbed less rebounds than the double-digit rebounder Miller ), we didn't need a pure point guard. We actually did very well with a 4-5 assists per game point guard named Bibby, because Divac was so good making plays.

Actually, IMO without Miller on the team our offensive plays look like those in High School. Our offensive play executions just look terrible without Miller!

Now, if we are sure we will have a Chris Paul, or a Deron Williams in the future, then we can get rid of Miller.

Now, what's so good with Marion and Haslem?

Haslem is another dwarf/undersized center at 6' 8" and Marion is another aging small forward who will definitely and immediately compete for playing time with ALL our " young bigs ". Miller only competes on playing time with Hawes.

Will Haslem and Marion surely land us a Chris Paul or Deron Williams ( or even a Tony Parker or an aging Nash ) next season more than Miller can?

NO.

I'd say there's more advantage with retaining Miller, than losing Miller in exchange for the dwarf Haslem and aging Marion.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Haslem is a PF not a C. He is playing C now coz the Heat Centers are all injured.
Haslem's contract is the same as the length of Miller's contract.
But Marion is an expiring, which will give us a much earlier time to be big players in the FA market starting next season.

Marion is a SF and will just simply replace Salmons as Greene will slowly ease up in the rotation this season.

The purpose of the trade is to lessen the number of bigs that are hindering playing times for our young bigs. Certainly, subtraction of 2 Centers and an addition of a SF and PF will only result to more playing time for the young C and PF (Hawes and Thompson).

Hawes is a legit C and is just too slow to play PF. Thompson can most likely switch between C and PF. But playing him at SF is just the wrong way. Therefore moving Mikki and Brad will make sure the kid plays only C and PF which is where he should flourish.

 

[bajaden]

I would be on board with this one. Whats attractive to me is the fact that we aquire cap space a year sooner with Marion. Short term, were even a better team defensively with Marion. Haslem is an upgrade over Moore.

It leaves us a little short at the center position, but Thompson played center in college, so I think we can live with it.

Lets be clear about something for those that keep saying that they see Miller/Hawes as the next Vlade/Webber or Vlade/Miller. Unless Miller is willing to sign for the league minimum, or some very reasonable low ball offer after 2010, he has no future with the Kings. If he's not in the future, and the Kings reach the future sooner by trading him, then do it.

Vlade/Webber is the past. I'm ready to move on to Hawes/Thompson.

 

[rhythmless]

Who knows maybe Hawes can be develop into the " REAL BIG power forward " that we need afterall?

Hawes=Webber and Miller=Divac.

Webber/Divac = Hawes/Miller.

Bad idea?

Yes.

1. Divac was actually a natural center. Webber was also a natural power forward. Miller is a center, Hawes is a center. Center/Center =/= Center/Forward.

2. Divac and Webber were 5 years apart from each other. Good enough for a few years of prime bball together. In addition, aging Vlade is in another league of passing than Brad, and he had post moves becaues he never relied on athleticism. Lemme show you; 34 YO Vlade > 30 YO Brad. Brad and Hawes are 10 years apart from each other. To have such a disparity in age you would have to have a mighty good group of other players to make up for the learning/emergence of one, and the inevitable slowing down of the other. We do not have it.

3. REAL BIG PF? Since you put Webber/Divac in every post, Webber was 6'10" and 250. Thompson is listed as 6'11" and 250. Heres another equation for you... (Hawes=Webber) < (Thompson=Webber). Thompson is a natural PF (not a SF). It seems we already have a "REAL BIG PF" that you want, but you keep putting him as your SF...

4. FINALLY, Webber/Divac worked not because of Webber/Divac, but because Webber/Divac/Peja/Christie/Bibby/Jackson/Barry/Hedo/Funderberke/MATEEN. They are not exclusive of each other. Their greatness depended on the rest of the starting 5, and the bench. Also, we played a gameplan that played to their strengths, not stuffing them into spots and strategies that hail from some other past glory days. Play the players we have NOW to their STRENGTHS, and stop trying to have them fit some weird version of the past that you have.

5. Hawes = Hawes, Thompson = Thompson, Martin = Martin. This is where we are, and these players are their own. Start from here, and nowhere else.

 

[HighTopKicks]

I like the trade, but with two reservations. Can we still run the hi post offense and can Hawes learn to stay out of foul trouble?

If Hawes is out of the line up, can JT or Haslem run the High Post offense? Or would Theus have to change the entire offense? Plus we go very small in the front line. Although Miller & Moore play small for 7 footers.

I assume we retain Marion's Bird Rights, so how much should we pay to retain him and for how long? Or, is this a one year deal, and we let him walk and use his salary for a different FA in 09. It seems to me that whether we keep him or not, it will be mandatory that we still pick up another center either through the draft or trade. Although JT might be able to play center, that only leaves us Haslem and Shelden at the PF which is a downgrade over what we already have.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I like the trade as well, but Salmons is NOT a 20ppg scorer in this league. Just because he's having a good season with us means nothing. He's a good player on a bad team.

Yeah true. If he was on the Heat his numbers would probably go down to 12-13 ppg. Marion is only averaging about that so they aren't losing much in the way of a "second option" scoring wise.

 

[Prince_XY]

3. REAL BIG PF? Since you put Webber/Divac in every post, Webber was 6'10" and 250. Thompson is listed as 6'11" and 250. Heres another equation for you... (Hawes=Webber) < (Thompson=Webber). Thompson is a natural PF (not a SF). It seems we already have a "REAL BIG PF" that you want, but you keep putting him as your SF...

4. FINALLY, Webber/Divac worked not because of Webber/Divac, but because Webber/Divac/Peja/Christie/Bibby/Jackson/Barry/Hedo/Funderberke/MATEEN. They are not exclusive of each other. Their greatness depended on the rest of the starting 5, and the bench. Also, we played a gameplan that played to their strengths, not stuffing them into spots and strategies that hail from some other past glory days. Play the players we have NOW to their STRENGTHS, and stop trying to have them fit some weird version of the past that you have.

For the record and I think you know where I am going with our current roster regarding the future starting line up for the Kings. We've discussed this on another thread, and I've always mentioned this future line-up as much as I have on some other threads:

#5 - Hawes ( 7' 0" )
#4 - Thompson ( 6' 11" )
#3 - Greene ( 6' 11" )
#2 - Martin ( 6' 7" )
#1 - Udrih ( 6' 3" )

I don't think I see any difference with my future plan and your contention that Hawes=Center and Thompson = Power Forward. The only smart difference is that - I am more than willing to try to give our young bigs the versatility they would need in the future if we are to be an elite team. And I think coach Theus and Petrie is smart enough to go along with my idea.

And you are not.

See how Lamar Odom can play at #3 and #4? That is what I call versatility of Lamar Odom. It is a great advantage for the Lakers if you don't know. Thompson is fast and played guard when he was young. I can't see any reason why you shouldn't even try teaching him small forward skills like how coach Theus is doing now.

Another example is Pau Gasol who can play #4 and #5. Did you see how the Lakers are now capitalizing on Pau Gasol's versatility by using him as a center last year and power forward now? Now, why can't we try this on Hawes who has shown signs he could also be a capable power forward?

Hawes is only 20 years old, Thompson is 22, and Greene is 19. Our young "bigs" are still young and developing. This is the reason why we call it " DEVELOPMENT " of the young players. It means they are not yet some sort of a finished product and it is still feasible at their age to give them the versatility they would need in the future. If these three are older, then it is easy to go along with your false belief that just because they look like a center, and power forward they are "natural center, power forward or whatever.." and that it would be foolish to give them the versatility of being able to play other positions other than their perceived natural positions/inclinations.

The old glorious Kings team and any other elite teams play a gameplan that plays their strength. That is a no brainer. It is common sense.

The question is what are the essential strengths we want to have in our future team?

Wouldn't it be nice if versatility of our players ( which you want to deny our bigs ) will be one of the essential strengths we can use in the future as an elite team?


.

 

[rhythmless]

Prince, you did nothing to explain how you believe Miller/Hawes = Vlade/Webber, and that's all i responded to. See PM for more info.

As for the trade, it looks plausible, but I think the Heat can get more for Marion. At least I think they think they can.

 

[bajaden]

I like the trade, but with two reservations. Can we still run the hi post offense and can Hawes learn to stay out of foul trouble?

If Hawes is out of the line up, can JT or Haslem run the High Post offense? Or would Theus have to change the entire offense? Plus we go very small in the front line. Although Miller & Moore play small for 7 footers.

I assume we retain Marion's Bird Rights, so how much should we pay to retain him and for how long? Or, is this a one year deal, and we let him walk and use his salary for a different FA in 09. It seems to me that whether we keep him or not, it will be mandatory that we still pick up another center either through the draft or trade. Although JT might be able to play center, that only leaves us Haslem and Shelden at the PF which is a downgrade over what we already have.

Don't forget that Marion played PF with the Suns. Out of necessity perhaps, but for at least the one year we would have him, he could fill in when needed. It would also give us a chance to define our needs in next years draft. We may be more inclined to go after a big man instead of a pt guard if we look a little thin there.

As far as Marion goes, I would think that he would just walk after this year unless he's willing to take a pay cut. I just like the idea of being able to compete in next years free agent class if we want to.

 

[bigd]

That would be an awesome trade, if the heat are against it we could always switch Haslem for Blount.