HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
No, but a great draft pick changes everything
Kings @ Hawks Game Thread
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No, but a great draft pick changes everything
NikateeN
Bench
Yea, i was extremely pissed off and ready to turn it off untill Muss put the young guys out there, i was impressed, Douby couldnt hit a 3 but he had some nice midrange shots.
You sure? A great draft pick alone does nothing. You need a supporting cast; you need coaches who know what they're doing; you need a structure for the development of the great draft pick. We don't have any of that right now...
HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
You sure? A great draft pick alone does nothing. You need a supporting cast; you need coaches who know what they're doing; you need a structure for the development of the great draft pick. We don't have any of that right now...
Of course, but the draft pick gives you direction. A centerpiece. We lack that. This team needs to be blown up. It can all change with that draft pick.
Bibbilicious
Bench
does anyone else here have a problem with Muss's rotations, I mean I understand defense is needed but take Francisco for example, he just wasnt doing good and was kept in, we needed players to get points, get martin and bibby in, get them shots, get artest shots, nobody was passing the ball. Sometimes I really wonder what they are thinking, im sitting at home thinking that as basketball players theyve got to know what they do better to be successful, maybe muss needs to have a little talk with the team, sorry, I got off topic, so anyone have any ideas on it? Think he was just trying to find something that works?
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I wish for for more than one #1 pick in the top 10 of this year's draft, and I'm willing and able to take full responsibility for it. If we get 3 #1s I'd take even more responsibility. I'm trying to think which roster I would not trade for the Kings' roster. Charlotte? No way. Atlanta? Heck no. We saw why tonight. Orlando? No. They have a superstar big man in the making. Memphis? No. They have a legit big man and are going to get another franchise player in the draft. Boston? No. They are more advanced than we are in talent and youth and will have a higher pick. Philly? No. Iguadalla and a legit big man plus two #1s give them a head's up on us. This team is sooooooooooo far behind the rest of the league right now, it's not even funny. Forget about competing with Phoenix and Dallas. Petrie has to make MAJOR moves in the offseason just in order for this team to compete with the Atlanta's, the Charlotte's, the Magic, the Raptors, the Trailblazers, etc.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
exactly! direction is what we lack above all else.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
You sure? A great draft pick alone does nothing. You need a supporting cast; you need coaches who know what they're doing; you need a structure for the development of the great draft pick. We don't have any of that right now...
No, I too worry that a high draft pick is too easily being viewed as a panacea here, but I'm not sure there's much else to root for at this point. At least it's a step in the right direction.
Oscar
Bench
If this scenario plays out, then the Kings will leave.
You sure? A great draft pick alone does nothing. You need a supporting cast; you need coaches who know what they're doing; you need a structure for the development of the great draft pick. We don't have any of that right now...
I can guarentee that Muss is gone by the end of the year... Atleast IMO he will be anyway.
Also, we have some of the pieces to go get a supporting cast. Atleast IMO. And our young cast of undrafted players and late 1sts doesn't look too bad either. They seem pretty talented IMO.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
I think Price should be getting alot more playing time, since we don't really have control over Bibbys future, Price looked good out there today, he had alot of good defensive plays, if he can get confidence and playing time he could be a pretty dangerous point guard.
Along with Williams, he held his ground pretty well with the starters of the Hawks.
Hope to see both of them next game.
Along with Williams, he held his ground pretty well with the starters of the Hawks.
Hope to see both of them next game.
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Ron Artest isnt responsible for the demise of the Kings season, as some people in the national media never shut up about. We can best be described as a bunch of square pegs with a bad coach. Hopefully the Maloofs let Geoff do his job, or at least ATTEMPT to, over the next couple years, and build something strong here again.maybe both, but at least he's positive
fansinceday1
Starter
I really don't know why people continue to blame muss for what is happening. This team just plain SUCKS.
There was no chemistry last year and there isn't any this year. REGARDLESS of the coach.
People seem to have forgotten what this team was doing prior to artest last season. If you really think Adelman would have done any better with todays team then I would really have to question your judgement. Bibby would still be pissed off at artest and KM would still be frozen out with artest on the floor.
Muss would be smart to bow out cause this team is screwed for the next 2-3 years contract wise. Why the hell would he want to subject himself to what he has endured this season. Players who don't listen and fans who insist on blaming everything on the coach. Toss in meddling owners and you have a no win situation for muss. This team is bellow average and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. We are stuck with what we have unless we can find another sucker GM who will take 1 of the bloated contracts that we currently have.
There was no chemistry last year and there isn't any this year. REGARDLESS of the coach.
People seem to have forgotten what this team was doing prior to artest last season. If you really think Adelman would have done any better with todays team then I would really have to question your judgement. Bibby would still be pissed off at artest and KM would still be frozen out with artest on the floor.
Muss would be smart to bow out cause this team is screwed for the next 2-3 years contract wise. Why the hell would he want to subject himself to what he has endured this season. Players who don't listen and fans who insist on blaming everything on the coach. Toss in meddling owners and you have a no win situation for muss. This team is bellow average and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. We are stuck with what we have unless we can find another sucker GM who will take 1 of the bloated contracts that we currently have.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Again, we saw what happened when Rick DID have Artest. Comparing it to when he didn't makes no sense. In fact realsitically the only reason Muss is even on the same planet as Rick was last year is because of the growth of Kevin Martin. Otherwise Muss has gotten worse performances out of every major player except Corliss, who wasn't even in the rotation last year.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
As for the draft pick not turning things around -- it could. Not enough to be contending for a title next year or anything, but if you could draft a young frontcourt stud, holdover Kevin and maybe the young hustle roleplayers (Cisco, Price, Williams), and then find a way to liquidate as much of the remaining squad as possible, you could start over spiritwise. Wash away most of the confused and depressed dreck of this season and build toward the future with a new identity. But that sort of transfromation requires real committment and vision, and we've seen damn little of either in recent years from our front office. But it could work, and a drafting a young stud can absolutely turn a moribund franchise alsa LeBron, Melo, Bosh etc.
Bad Boy Bo
Bench
First thing I said to Loopy at the game was "I hope Ronnie Price will get some minutes out there." I guess I got my wish, at a cost.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You guys should write to the Kings and demand reimbursement for the tickets you bought.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I totally agree, but we're in a distinct minority. Some say that it would be different with a coach with stature, that he could control Artest, reconcile the differences among teamates, and have them play better ball. Even assuming that to be so, does anyone think the Maloofs are willing to pay the $ to get a coach with "stature"? Who would it be? Larry Brown? He has stature, but how much would you have to pay him? $10 mill a year? And then with Brown you would have to anticipate him only being around for a short period of time. I found it interesting that Coz said on 1140 AM this morning that he thought Muss would be back next year. If they do fire him, they have to bring in someone who can teach young guys how to play (I'm hoping/assuming/wishing desperately for Petrie to blow up the team and start with youth).
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Two reasons: (1) we need to play the vets to trade them; (2) job security.
I have no problem with that assessment whatsoever. I just don't agree with those few who seem to think all we need is the draft pick to right this ship. No way. This ship needs to go into dry dock for MAJOR refitting. I agree entirely that a good frontcourt player could be the beginning but it certainly wouldn't be fair for people to put all the pressure on him to do it himself...
Kingster
Hall of Famer
That assumes that Artest is this unchanging compound rather than a volatile changing one. I wouldn't make that assumption. Artest today is not Artest tomorrow.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I agree Artest wants to win. But he thinks that to win, he's the man to do it, in his own way, not the coache's. If Artest is still here next year, there will be problems again, no matter who the coach is. I really don't understand how anybody on this board can think that any coach can control Artest. Where has that happened for any length of time? What evidence is there for Artest being stable FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME? Three months with Adelman? After Artest is deliriously happy to have his NBA life back? Sure he's going to behave then. You are totally denying everything that is known about Artest -- his INCESSANT INSTABILITY -- while complaining that Muss can't coach him. Adelman couldn't control Jason Williams; that's why they unloaded the guy. And you think that Adelman could control Artest?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The genius of Adelman was that he didn't seek to "control" anyone. Adn that makes all the difference with certain personalities. Often the most dificult ones liek ron. he gave him the ball, said Ron we trust you and need you to lead the team. And Ron swelled up when presented that like a proud child being given his first real responsibility by dad.
That was the genius that we no longer have. Rick never made it about Rick. never was looking for the credit or the limelight, and reached guys with massive egos craving the spotlight by offering them precisely what they were looking for. He absolutely "reached" Ron last year, and would have had a HELL of a lot better chance of reaching him than our current coach, who made themistake from the very beginnign of not forming an alliance with his best player. Of trying to tell him how it was going to be instead of making him feel included. Of trying to force "his" system down their throats rather than adapting to the personnel. All ego driven maneuvers of a smart young coach far too concerned with being a smart young coach.
Okay, I have to know how this straw man came into existence...
I keep reading remarks from people that are anti-tank that pro-tank people are saying that all we need to do is draft Oden, and everything will be alright when, to the best of my recollection, not a single pro-tank person has ever said anything of the sort. Who are these people, and why haven't I seen their posts?
Why do anti-tank people insist on arguing against that point when there really aren't any pro-tank people arguing for it in the first place? It's like anti-tank people have fabricated this argument just so that they could poke holes in it...
Who invented this straw man? Enquiring minds want to know.
It's my perception. If I'm wrong, I sincerely apologize if it's caused you angst.
I am not a pro-tank or anti-tank person, BTW. I'm a Kings fan. My brain may say that we need to get really bad before we can get better but my heart wants to root NOW for the guys on the court. I don't like the paradox but I - and the rest of the Kingdom - don't really have a say.
There are positives and negatives to going after the best possible draft pick. Some of the negatives include deteriorating fan support, horrendous and horrifying team chemistry in the interim and finger pointing when the goal has not been made clear, which is what Bricklayer pointed out above.
I think some people around here - and I'm NOT singling anyone out - are convinced that all we need is Greg Oden and our problems will be over. In reading a lot of the threads I've gathered that impression.
I'm not going to argue about a "straw man," Slim, because it's way too confrontational for me. I'm just trying to deal with the day-to-day heartbreak of seeing the team I've loved for over 20 years being torn apart like a rabbit with a pack of wild dogs.
I am not a pro-tank or anti-tank person, BTW. I'm a Kings fan. My brain may say that we need to get really bad before we can get better but my heart wants to root NOW for the guys on the court. I don't like the paradox but I - and the rest of the Kingdom - don't really have a say.
There are positives and negatives to going after the best possible draft pick. Some of the negatives include deteriorating fan support, horrendous and horrifying team chemistry in the interim and finger pointing when the goal has not been made clear, which is what Bricklayer pointed out above.
I think some people around here - and I'm NOT singling anyone out - are convinced that all we need is Greg Oden and our problems will be over. In reading a lot of the threads I've gathered that impression.
I'm not going to argue about a "straw man," Slim, because it's way too confrontational for me. I'm just trying to deal with the day-to-day heartbreak of seeing the team I've loved for over 20 years being torn apart like a rabbit with a pack of wild dogs.
Yeah, but what management has been doing for the last three years is accomplishing the exact same thing... without even the benefit of having something in the future to look forward to.
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