[Game] Kings @ Hawks 11/15/17 4:30 PM PT

[Joshoua]

Our team is straight up not good. Stop blaming the coaches. I can go through every single player...

• Hill: 3&D PG. It's exactly what he's always been. Not sure why anyone expects him to be more.

• ZBo: 36 yearold vet. Considering his age, he's playing at a high level.

• Temple: BENCH 3&D player. what do you expect from a 31yearold journey man with

• Bogdanovic: probably average SG. too many people think he has untapped potential like Fox, when in reality, he's 5 years older than him in his prime. he's not great at anyone thing. his quickness on offense is just average at SG.

• WCS: backup energy big. if he even brings the energy. what can willie do? what does he want to? nobody knows. Only thing we know he can do is rim run, shoot mid-range, and switch on defense.

• Fox: inconsistent young PG without jumpshot. he's a rookie who's been labeled a superstar, but where can he even score on the floor consistently? take off the blind homer glasses, he has not looked like a franchise player so far. he can be very good, but he's not good right now, and actually none of the rookies in this draft class have been great. It's not just him.

• Buddy: average SG. good 3pt shooter with shaky handles and average quickness. horrible defender due to lateral speed. lack of athleticism limits his ceiling.

• Jackson: role player 3&D. he's a small frail SF that's limited to 3pt shooting and floaters. he's got a high iq..but there's not much else to his game.

• Skal: learning to play basketball. got a beautiful jumper and jumphook..but that's it. he's a liability on the floor if he can't score. he rebounds worse than guards. he's weak and frail. he's got high potential, but his bball IQ is ways away from letting him get to his ceiling.

We're a team full of average players and role players. We have no offensive leader. No defensive leader. What do people expect? This team lacks talent.

It’s not about Wins it’s how we look that stupid ass offense we run like we have Embiid or Cousins

 

[eMBarkat10n]

That was...

Ugly

 

[The Effort Police]

Honestly just grabbing someone who hustles might catalyze the rest of the roster. Faried could probably be had easily. He's overpaid and will never be more than a garbage man, but I don't doubt that he'd be an infusion of energy.

KK is probably our best trade chip. Somebody out there would probably gamble on Trill growing a pair. ... of brain cells.

We need some kinda shake up, that's for sure. I don't expect wins, just pride and effort.

Demarre Carroll says hi. Oh wait, we didn't get on that because we wanted to sign Hill and Zbo instead and because we thought we had enough youth. Lol?

In all seriousness, and I might start my own trade thread on this, we can't expect to be able to move the vet contracts. Don't get me wrong; I'd move them for a pack of gum, but if we're moving them we shouldn't be concerned about the return.

I've had one trade on my mind though.

SAC trades: Willie Cauley-Stein and Bogdan Bogdanovic
NYK trades: Willy Hernangomez and their 2019 pick

See if New York bites on a swap of our young centers. Hernangomez did well down the stretch of last season, but he's been buried on Hornacek's bench. And the Knicks are doing better and seem ready to move forward in the Porzingis era. That pick may no longer be a high one. They need another starting wing for their future too.

 

[The Effort Police]

I hate Karl. I also hate that you're probably right.

This franchise does everything ass backwards.

Hey! Lets fire a coach that's great for Cuz and hire a coach that's terrible for Cuz! Then fire that coach, get another coach that would be good for Cuz, then let's trade Cuz for a low ceiling SG and mid lotto pick and rebuild with the coach that's probably no good for rebuilding!

I think we've been Vivek'd again, guys!

(I'm still holding out hope that Joerger is trying to teach, pathetic losses be dammed! But this is frustrating)

If it wasn't for the fact that he's a drama magnet and a cancer, he would be. From just the pure basketball side of things, he is. Make no mistake, Joerger still completely poops on Karl in all facets of the human and relationship side of coaching.

But in terms of system this is the exact same square peg, round hole scenario. It honestly looks even worse because DMC had the talent to elevate what was a sucky system slightly.

 

[SacTownKid]

Firing the coach isn't going to help. I would rather them make some kind of trade to light a fire under this team. Or, try to.

This is all system and rotation management right now and the poor play isn't just relegated to a limited group which as I stated before, typically points to a bigger issue than just personel. If you trade for anyone that isn't someone he's going to give real starter minutes that can carry the team it won't matter. Maybe even then it won't. He had Cuz last year with a roster full of vets and while I think they would have had a legit shot to make the playoffs in the end that team didn't do so hot either.

 

[SacTownKid]

Our team is straight up not good. Stop blaming the coaches. I can go through every single player...

• Hill: 3&D PG. It's exactly what he's always been. Not sure why anyone expects him to be more.

• ZBo: 36 yearold vet. Considering his age, he's playing at a high level.

• Temple: BENCH 3&D player. what do you expect from a 31yearold journey man with

• Bogdanovic: probably average SG. too many people think he has untapped potential like Fox, when in reality, he's 5 years older than him in his prime. he's not great at anyone thing. his quickness on offense is just average at SG.

• WCS: backup energy big. if he even brings the energy. what can willie do? what does he want to? nobody knows. Only thing we know he can do is rim run, shoot mid-range, and switch on defense.

• Fox: inconsistent young PG without jumpshot. he's a rookie who's been labeled a superstar, but where can he even score on the floor consistently? take off the blind homer glasses, he has not looked like a franchise player so far. he can be very good, but he's not good right now, and actually none of the rookies in this draft class have been great. It's not just him.

• Buddy: average SG. good 3pt shooter with shaky handles and average quickness. horrible defender due to lateral speed. lack of athleticism limits his ceiling.

• Jackson: role player 3&D. he's a small frail SF that's limited to 3pt shooting and floaters. he's got a high iq..but there's not much else to his game.

• Skal: learning to play basketball. got a beautiful jumper and jumphook..but that's it. he's a liability on the floor if he can't score. he rebounds worse than guards. he's weak and frail. he's got high potential, but his bball IQ is ways away from letting him get to his ceiling.

We're a team full of average players and role players. We have no offensive leader. No defensive leader. What do people expect? This team lacks talent.

So you think this is a team that should struggle to score 70 points some nights and doesn't have a single player that should be getting a bulk of the offense at least? I disagree. And there hasn't been nearly enough play time for any one of these young players to draw the conclusions to any firm degree. Playing them more and giving them heightened roles might do the trick.

Look at Buddy's last couple of games before this one and then extrapolate his productivity into starters minutes. It's better than average. Can he sustain that per minute productivity when given those minutes? Worth a shot to find out IMO.

 

[SacTownKid]

Because that would require running the pick and roll, which Joerger rarely lets them do.

Then they would actually have to be able to run a pick and roll, which they rarely ever do when they get the rare chance to run a pick and roll.

How many easy buckets did they get outside of the last 5min of regulation this game? I can't think of a single half court set where they got a guy an easy layup at the rim.

The rare instances that the pick and roll are ran are embarrassing. Why are they constantly going to the opposite side of the screen, making it useless? Why are the big men not coming out far enough to set a correct screen? Why are the guards not running close to the big men when they set the screen, so the screen actually....screens?

It's the most fundamental play in all of basketball and not only do they rarely run it, but when they do, they can't even use it correctly. I don't remember Fox or Mason having that problem in college. Bogie has been doing it at a high level in Europe for years. Hill has been doing it at an average level for a decade. So why can't these guys run it correctly?

It's like every cog in the system fails at nearly every point. I don't care how young these guys are, they are capable of running a handful of PnR plays successfully every game. The Hawks PnR'd us to death this game with a solid PG and a bunch of scrubs.

If you go back to the games where the Kings did score effectively he started running a lot more pick and roll and two man game. Shots came from 2 passes consistently. Then right back to college ball.

Also, when players are given inconsistent minutes you can expect inconsistent play. You rotate defensive role players or rebounders like that, not scorers. They hate it. Hubie Brown did it until he was no longer a coach because of it. It's a college style system that doesn't work with the NBA mindset.

 

[kingjatt]

The thing that worries me most is that Justin Jackson, Willie, Buddy, Bogdonavic are all pretty old in terms of prospects and its starting to look like they may not be NBA starter type material. We have ALOT invested in these guys but as mentioned before they have some limitations that look to be uncorrectable. (Quickness, Handle, etc)

Papa,Fox and Skal are still young butI do not see any specific sets being run for them to get shots or easy looks. Its all a read and react system where none of these guys know how to read or react at an nba level.

Harry Giles better be a stud because I was screaming for Donavan Mitchell who is putting up efficient 20 Pt games with ease.

The cold reality is that no matter what Grant tells us there really might not be any NBA starter caliber players on this roster yet. Yeah its gonna be a while but hey we would have had to wait out the Warriors anyway right? Might as well keep throwing darts in the draft until something gives.

 

[Vladizzle]

Just watched that ESPN special thing with De'Aaron and the whole crew was basically telling him he should be starting to help mold those flashes of excellence into full game greatness.

Then, best part, they asked him what he would do if Zbo was open in the post calling for the ball and you had a shooter coming off a screen who's been on fire all game. Fox said 'have to always listen to coach first' and they corrected him and said NO, always find the hot hand as the point guard.

 

[dude12]

Keyboard coaches are always the best coaches ever.....lol.

 

[Kingsfan23]

The thing that worries me most is that Justin Jackson, Willie, Buddy, Bogdonavic are all pretty old in terms of prospects and its starting to look like they may not be NBA starter type material. We have ALOT invested in these guys but as mentioned before they have some limitations that look to be uncorrectable. (Quickness, Handle, etc)

Papa,Fox and Skal are still young butI do not see any specific sets being run for them to get shots or easy looks. Its all a read and react system where none of these guys know how to read or react at an nba level.

Harry Giles better be a stud because I was screaming for Donavan Mitchell who is putting up efficient 20 Pt games with ease.

The cold reality is that no matter what Grant tells us there really might not be any NBA starter caliber players on this roster yet. Yeah its gonna be a while but hey we would have had to wait out the Warriors anyway right? Might as well keep throwing darts in the draft until something gives.

Hard to fault the Mitchell thing. Hield/Bogdanovic looked to have SG covered

 

[Vladizzle]

Keyboard coaches are always the best coaches ever.....lol.

I would take a cardboard cutout over Joerger at this point. As long as I don't have to see that high post, Zbo iso offense anymore.