[Game] Kings @ Hawks 11/15/17 4:30 PM PT

[SacTownKid]

I'm so glad the post-game guys are ripping them apart.

I think it's breaking poor Doug's heart to be so harsh on this team, but they absolutely deserve it. J

I was going to avoid Joergers comments but I couldn't help myself. He's putting his you know whats on the line with his players with his comments about playing 10-11 guys. Number 1, I've said it many times before, it rarely works anyway and even when it does it has a very limited lifespan, that said, he said that he's playing that many guys looking for anyone to stand out on either end. Coach, these players aren't dumb. Look at Buddy's numbers the last few games, yet his minutes are still stuck in platoon and tonight he came in after Malachi who is the one guy not in the rotation. You say Skal can't guard stretch 4's but your actions suggest that ZBo can. They are living in the chaos, I doubt they are immune to it's effects and are blind to what it looks like. It's time to commit to something. The play is so bad that if he doesn't try and fine tune a rotation, even if it's mostly the vets, this ship will be sunk deeper than the titanic.

 

[gunks]

Yeah, no one talk to me about the vet rest Wizards game ever again.

Deal.

 

[SacTownKid]

I'm not sure this team can make it to 15 wins this season.....I was badly wrong with that prediction. Thought they'd at least score more, but they're toothless. Ah well....

Rookies or not, this isn't a team that should be scoring in the 70's or 80's many nights. We've already been there, discussed that as to why that is, and I think there are enough games to draw the conclusions already.

 

[fansinceday1]

I wonder what this kind of ineptitude will do to this young teams psyche. I know they are young and they are suppose to lose but
they are getting worked over in the worst way.

I've been watching this team for a long long time. This is bad. Real bad. I can't imagine what an entire season of this kind of sh** will do to these young kids.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I'm not sure this team can make it to 15 wins this season.....I was badly wrong with that prediction. Thought they'd at least score more, but they're toothless. Ah well....

15?

I had 17 & Slab 15

Wasn't anyone else under 20 before the season started.

 

[kingdivac]

15?

I had 17 & Slab 15

Wasn't anyone else under 20 before the season started.

My original prediction was much higher with a +/- .....but they're not even going to make it to the lower "-" portion of that. Nice estimate if you had the em in the teens

 

[Starting Five]

Are we at the point of calling Joerger’s extension premature?

I think he’s a solid coach, but not a rebuilding one and the teams effort, even with its lack of talent, is not acceptable

It's not the coaches fault, that we suck at both ends of the floor. It's on the players, no passion or fight or fire with this Kings team.

 

[alonshin]

The Hawks are looking at us as a "W" too....it works both ways! Either way, it's probably going to be a very competitive game.

Very competitive, yeah. :-/

 

[fansinceday1]

It's not the coaches fault, that we suck at both ends of the floor. It's on the players, no passion or fight or fire with this Kings team.

This team is confused man. They are not ready. Lost. They are young and therefore need that competent teacher to show them the way to team play and I'm not seeing it. At all.
That's on the coaching staff.
I was ready for bad, but not this.

That being said we can't fire joeger this year OR next year. We are paying the price of the last couple years of complete ineptitude by our FO. If we blow out joeger we might as well just fold the franchise because no one worth their salt would ever come here again.

 

[Iced Espresso]

After our two upcoming loses to Portland, we have the Nuggets followed by the Lakers at home.

We stink sure, but if there is no fire for Denver & LA then I'll start pondering if the coach has lost the team then.

 

[Starting Five]

Firing the coach isn't going to help. I would rather them make some kind of trade to light a fire under this team. Or, try to.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Firing the coach isn't going to help. I would rather them make some kind of trade to light a fire under this team. Or, try to.

I don't know the right call here, but I'm not convinced he has lost the locker room just yet.

 

[BeerNerd916]

Imo, you can't blame this on the coach. These fools, Willie leading the pack, are just playing like they have no huevos. I'm not even talking pride. I'm talking effort.

 

[gunks]

Firing the coach isn't going to help. I would rather them make some kind of trade to light a fire under this team. Or, try to.

Honestly just grabbing someone who hustles might catalyze the rest of the roster. Faried could probably be had easily. He's overpaid and will never be more than a garbage man, but I don't doubt that he'd be an infusion of energy.

KK is probably our best trade chip. Somebody out there would probably gamble on Trill growing a pair. ... of brain cells.

We need some kinda shake up, that's for sure. I don't expect wins, just pride and effort.

 

[kingjatt]

Why not simplify things and run a PnR based offense with lots of running and a ton of 3s at least it would be better to watch. Joergers rotations are so bad its making me miss the Kieth Smart days. Since Adleman we havent even been able to get a guy in here who can rotate the right guys in and out.

 

[Kingsfan23]

It's not the coaches fault, that we suck at both ends of the floor. It's on the players, no passion or fight or fire with this Kings team.

We might have differing expectations for the role of the coach. 50% of coaching is effort and how hard players fight for you. Not just X and Os

 

[alonshin]

Honestly just grabbing someone who hustles might catalyze the rest of the roster. Faried could probably be had easily. He's overpaid and will never be more than a garbage man, but I don't doubt that he'd be an infusion of energy.

KK is probably our best trade chip. Somebody out there would probably gamble on Trill growing a pair. ... of brain cells.

We need some kinda shake up, that's for sure. I don't expect wins, just pride and effort.

"someone who hustles"- maybe Omri Casspi? He even actually loved the city.

 

[Joshoua]

I want Boogie back

 

[Joshoua]

Firing the coach isn't going to help. I would rather them make some kind of trade to light a fire under this team. Or, try to.

If we got Blatt I’m all over that

 

[206Fan]

This team is confused man. They are not ready. Lost. They are young and therefore need that competent teacher to show them the way to team play and I'm not seeing it. At all.
That's on the coaching staff.
I was ready for bad, but not this.

That being said we can't fire joeger this year OR next year. We are paying the price of the last couple years of complete ineptitude by our FO. If we blow out joeger we might as well just fold the franchise because no one worth their salt would ever come here again.

look, I don't like Joerger's coaching plan as much as everyone else does, but it's not the coaches fault that our young guys aren't good. I've said this before.. just because our players are young, it doesn't mean they're good. Jimmer wasn't good. T-Rob wasn't good. Ben wasn't good. Nik wasn't good.

What makes anyone think our young guys are destined to be anything more than NBA role players? The expectations on these guys were set way too high, all because they're "young". You can have a lot of garbage young players.

 

[Gliesian]

I wonder what this kind of ineptitude will do to this young teams psyche. I know they are young and they are suppose to lose but
they are getting worked over in the worst way.

I've been watching this team for a long long time. This is bad. Real bad. I can't imagine what an entire season of this kind of sh** will do to these young kids.

Ive often wondered if our drafts were really all busts or if it was our culture that molded them.

 

[ESP47]

It's Joerger's fault that they lost by 40 instead of 20. The off shooting night doesn't account for a 40 point hole. Bad coaching + bad shooting = -40 points.

 

[ESP47]

i don't understand why Skal and Willie can't get these types of looks at the rim that Collins just got.

Because that would require running the pick and roll, which Joerger rarely lets them do.

Then they would actually have to be able to run a pick and roll, which they rarely ever do when they get the rare chance to run a pick and roll.

How many easy buckets did they get outside of the last 5min of regulation this game? I can't think of a single half court set where they got a guy an easy layup at the rim.

The rare instances that the pick and roll are ran are embarrassing. Why are they constantly going to the opposite side of the screen, making it useless? Why are the big men not coming out far enough to set a correct screen? Why are the guards not running close to the big men when they set the screen, so the screen actually....screens?

It's the most fundamental play in all of basketball and not only do they rarely run it, but when they do, they can't even use it correctly. I don't remember Fox or Mason having that problem in college. Bogie has been doing it at a high level in Europe for years. Hill has been doing it at an average level for a decade. So why can't these guys run it correctly?

It's like every cog in the system fails at nearly every point. I don't care how young these guys are, they are capable of running a handful of PnR plays successfully every game. The Hawks PnR'd us to death this game with a solid PG and a bunch of scrubs.

 

[206Fan]

Our team is straight up not good. Stop blaming the coaches. I can go through every single player...

• Hill: 3&D PG. It's exactly what he's always been. Not sure why anyone expects him to be more.

• ZBo: 36 yearold vet. Considering his age, he's playing at a high level.

• Temple: BENCH 3&D player. what do you expect from a 31yearold journey man with

• Bogdanovic: probably average SG. too many people think he has untapped potential like Fox, when in reality, he's 5 years older than him in his prime. he's not great at anyone thing. his quickness on offense is just average at SG.

• WCS: backup energy big. if he even brings the energy. what can willie do? what does he want to? nobody knows. Only thing we know he can do is rim run, shoot mid-range, and switch on defense.

• Fox: inconsistent young PG without jumpshot. he's a rookie who's been labeled a superstar, but where can he even score on the floor consistently? take off the blind homer glasses, he has not looked like a franchise player so far. he can be very good, but he's not good right now, and actually none of the rookies in this draft class have been great. It's not just him.

• Buddy: average SG. good 3pt shooter with shaky handles and average quickness. horrible defender due to lateral speed. lack of athleticism limits his ceiling.

• Jackson: role player 3&D. he's a small frail SF that's limited to 3pt shooting and floaters. he's got a high iq..but there's not much else to his game.

• Skal: learning to play basketball. got a beautiful jumper and jumphook..but that's it. he's a liability on the floor if he can't score. he rebounds worse than guards. he's weak and frail. he's got high potential, but his bball IQ is ways away from letting him get to his ceiling.

We're a team full of average players and role players. We have no offensive leader. No defensive leader. What do people expect? This team lacks talent.

 

[206Fan]

Because that would require running the pick and roll, which Joerger rarely lets them do.

Then they would actually have to be able to run a pick and roll, which they rarely ever do when they get the rare chance to run a pick and roll.

How many easy buckets did they get outside of the last 5min of regulation this game? I can't think of a single half court set where they got a guy an easy layup at the rim.

The rare instances that the pick and roll are ran are embarrassing. Why are they constantly going to the opposite side of the screen, making it useless? Why are the big men not coming out far enough to set a correct screen? Why are the guards not running close to the big men when they set the screen, so the screen actually....screens?

It's the most fundamental play in all of basketball and not only do they rarely run it, but when they do, they can't even use it correctly. I don't remember Fox or Mason having that problem in college. Bogie has been doing it at a high level in Europe for years. Hill has been doing it at an average level for a decade. So why can't these guys run it correctly?

It's like every cog in the system fails at nearly every point. I don't care how young these guys are, they are capable of running a handful of PnR plays successfully every game. The Hawks PnR'd us to death this game with a solid PG and a bunch of scrubs.

.........george karl would be perfect for this young team.

 

[fansinceday1]

Our team is straight up not good. Stop blaming the coaches. I can go through every single player...

• Hill: 3&D PG. It's exactly what he's always been. Not sure why anyone expects him to be more.

• ZBo: 36 yearold vet. Considering his age, he's playing at a high level.

• Temple: BENCH 3&D player. what do you expect from a 31yearold journey man with

• Bogdanovic: probably average SG. too many people think he has untapped potential like Fox, when in reality, he's 5 years older than him in his prime. he's not great at anyone thing. his quickness on offense is just average at SG.

• WCS: backup energy big. if he even brings the energy. what can willie do? what does he want to? nobody knows. Only thing we know he can do is rim run, shoot mid-range, and switch on defense.

• Fox: inconsistent young PG without jumpshot. he's a rookie who's been labeled a superstar, but where can he even score on the floor consistently? take off the blind homer glasses, he has not looked like a franchise player so far. he can be very good, but he's not good right now, and actually none of the rookies in this draft class have been great. It's not just him.

• Buddy: average SG. good 3pt shooter with shaky handles and average quickness. horrible defender due to lateral speed. lack of athleticism limits his ceiling.

• Jackson: role player 3&D. he's a small frail SF that's limited to 3pt shooting and floaters. he's got a high iq..but there's not much else to his game.

• Skal: learning to play basketball. got a beautiful jumper and jumphook..but that's it. he's a liability on the floor if he can't score. he rebounds worse than guards. he's weak and frail. he's got high potential, but his bball IQ is ways away from letting him get to his ceiling.

We're a team full of average players and role players. We have no offensive leader. No defensive leader. What do people expect? This team lacks talent.

I'll be blunt. My opinion.......your completely wrong. You'd rather discount our entire team than admit that this franchise has a bad bad habit of pairing the wrong coach with that current team. I present the last decade as proof your wrong about this current team.

This season has visions of the Cleveland Browns dancing in my head.

 

[gunks]

.........george karl would be perfect for this young team.

I hate Karl. I also hate that you're probably right.

This franchise does everything ass backwards.

Hey! Lets fire a coach that's great for Cuz and hire a coach that's terrible for Cuz! Then fire that coach, get another coach that would be good for Cuz, then let's trade Cuz for a low ceiling SG and mid lotto pick and rebuild with the coach that's probably no good for rebuilding!

I think we've been Vivek'd again, guys!

(I'm still holding out hope that Joerger is trying to teach, pathetic losses be dammed! But this is frustrating)

 

[ESP47]

Our team is straight up not good. Stop blaming the coaches. I can go through every single player...

• Hill: 3&D PG. It's exactly what he's always been. Not sure why anyone expects him to be more.

• ZBo: 36 yearold vet. Considering his age, he's playing at a high level.

• Temple: BENCH 3&D player. what do you expect from a 31yearold journey man with

• Bogdanovic: probably average SG. too many people think he has untapped potential like Fox, when in reality, he's 5 years older than him in his prime. he's not great at anyone thing. his quickness on offense is just average at SG.

• WCS: backup energy big. if he even brings the energy. what can willie do? what does he want to? nobody knows. Only thing we know he can do is rim run, shoot mid-range, and switch on defense.

• Fox: inconsistent young PG without jumpshot. he's a rookie who's been labeled a superstar, but where can he even score on the floor consistently? take off the blind homer glasses, he has not looked like a franchise player so far. he can be very good, but he's not good right now, and actually none of the rookies in this draft class have been great. It's not just him.

• Buddy: average SG. good 3pt shooter with shaky handles and average quickness. horrible defender due to lateral speed. lack of athleticism limits his ceiling.

• Jackson: role player 3&D. he's a small frail SF that's limited to 3pt shooting and floaters. he's got a high iq..but there's not much else to his game.

• Skal: learning to play basketball. got a beautiful jumper and jumphook..but that's it. he's a liability on the floor if he can't score. he rebounds worse than guards. he's weak and frail. he's got high potential, but his bball IQ is ways away from letting him get to his ceiling.

We're a team full of average players and role players. We have no offensive leader. No defensive leader. What do people expect? This team lacks talent.

While I agree with most of your assessments about our players there, it still doesn't account for the Kings to be losing by 30 nearly every game. Losing by 10-15 on a semi regular basis....ok I won't act surprised. But going down 0-10 nearly every game and finishing down 20-40 points in most of the losses? That's unacceptable. Like you said, Karl would be a better fit for this team and if he was the coach right now I could guarantee you that we wouldn't be losing by this much every game. We would probably have about the same wins and losses but there would be some competitive games in there. There would be some guys actually scoring 20 points here and there and showing signs of life.

This team has been in a free fall after the 5th game or so when the scouting reports probably started to get developed. The book is out on Fox. Pack the paint, play the passing lanes and just let him take long 2 point shots. There are a lot of other players out there that can't shoot, that can still score the ball and get to the rim/line because they have a coach that puts a system in place to mask their weaknesses and play to their strengths. Joerger is playing him like he's Mike Conley and he's just not. Fox is talented enough to get into the paint but he's not just going to beat every guy off the dribble and then finish around 3 guys in the paint because he's fast. He needs plays ran that get him that first step or get him in a mismatch to be able to create. As of right now it's like he's just running around on the outside of a brick wall and has no where to go because there's nothing about these offensive sets that creates good looks for anyone on a regular basis.

 

[Vladizzle]

The Atlanta Hawks just set their franchise record for win margin, with their worst Hawks team to date.

They were 2-12 coming into tonight.

Let that sink in Dave. You should be embarrassed and stop running your overly complex crap just to get an ugly post up iso at the end of the clock and then getting mad at a guard heavy team for not gelling with it.

Can we agree Fox, Bogdan, Hield are probably our best potential offensive weapons? Temple, Hill are career reliable players on that end? JJ and Mason have talent on that end?

Yet we solely focus on big men play with a team of below average big men who can't lead for crap.

Please end our suffering and just bring in somebody that can run a simple offense catered to guards and at least has some developmental background.

Oh and a guy who doesn't say 'Skal struggles guarding the stretch 4s' and then goes on to play Zach Randolph heavy minutes at the 4..

 

[Vladizzle]

Our team is straight up not good. Stop blaming the coaches. I can go through every single player...

• Hill: 3&D PG. It's exactly what he's always been. Not sure why anyone expects him to be more.

• ZBo: 36 yearold vet. Considering his age, he's playing at a high level.

• Temple: BENCH 3&D player. what do you expect from a 31yearold journey man with

• Bogdanovic: probably average SG. too many people think he has untapped potential like Fox, when in reality, he's 5 years older than him in his prime. he's not great at anyone thing. his quickness on offense is just average at SG.

• WCS: backup energy big. if he even brings the energy. what can willie do? what does he want to? nobody knows. Only thing we know he can do is rim run, shoot mid-range, and switch on defense.

• Fox: inconsistent young PG without jumpshot. he's a rookie who's been labeled a superstar, but where can he even score on the floor consistently? take off the blind homer glasses, he has not looked like a franchise player so far. he can be very good, but he's not good right now, and actually none of the rookies in this draft class have been great. It's not just him.

• Buddy: average SG. good 3pt shooter with shaky handles and average quickness. horrible defender due to lateral speed. lack of athleticism limits his ceiling.

• Jackson: role player 3&D. he's a small frail SF that's limited to 3pt shooting and floaters. he's got a high iq..but there's not much else to his game.

• Skal: learning to play basketball. got a beautiful jumper and jumphook..but that's it. he's a liability on the floor if he can't score. he rebounds worse than guards. he's weak and frail. he's got high potential, but his bball IQ is ways away from letting him get to his ceiling.

We're a team full of average players and role players. We have no offensive leader. No defensive leader. What do people expect? This team lacks talent.

Care to break down the 2-12 Atlanta Hawks players for us?

These aren't a bunch of late 2nd round picks. To think all high picks, including lottery picks, aren't able to score a basketball in the NBA to save their lives has to fall somewhat on the coaching staff.