I know that under the new CBA the time alotted for a player to decide on an offer has been considerably shortened, Something like 48 or 72 hours, instead of the (I think) ten days it used to be. So I would hope whatever offers that will be made to JT will be made on the first day of freeagency, so we can get the whole thing behind us. We can't pursue anyone else until JT is out of the way because of the cap hold.
Kings extend qualifying offer to Jason Thompson
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Let me answer from a different slant. Can we at least agree that resigning JT is a priority? Or do you just want to let him walk away. So assuming that resigning JT is one, but not (ALL) of our priorities, he needs to be done first because of the cap hold he puts on the team.
His qualifying offer, which he has the option of accepting for one year and then becoming an unrestricted free agent is for 4.1 mil. But until our contract with him is settled one way or the other, there is a caphold of somewhere between 7.5 and 9 mill on our total salaries. I list two different numbers because two different sites have a disagreement. Since out total amount under the cap is around 14 mil, even the 7.5 mil would take up a substantial amount of that number.
So my point is, until we resign JT, we don't know how much money we'll have left to sign anyone else. Therefore, its a priority, but not necessarilly the only one. Lets also remember, that just because we want a shotblocker, doesn't mean we'll be able to aquire one. At least one thats proven. To forget everything else in pursuit of one, is a dangerous way to come up totally empty. Remember our 2 month pursuit of Bonzi Wells where we didn't end up with him, ( thankfully in hindsight) and by the time we found out we weren't going to get him, all the other top freeagents were signed with someone else.
Doesn't mean we don't try, but not at the expense of everything else.
His qualifying offer, which he has the option of accepting for one year and then becoming an unrestricted free agent is for 4.1 mil. But until our contract with him is settled one way or the other, there is a caphold of somewhere between 7.5 and 9 mill on our total salaries. I list two different numbers because two different sites have a disagreement. Since out total amount under the cap is around 14 mil, even the 7.5 mil would take up a substantial amount of that number.
So my point is, until we resign JT, we don't know how much money we'll have left to sign anyone else. Therefore, its a priority, but not necessarilly the only one. Lets also remember, that just because we want a shotblocker, doesn't mean we'll be able to aquire one. At least one thats proven. To forget everything else in pursuit of one, is a dangerous way to come up totally empty. Remember our 2 month pursuit of Bonzi Wells where we didn't end up with him, ( thankfully in hindsight) and by the time we found out we weren't going to get him, all the other top freeagents were signed with someone else.
Doesn't mean we don't try, but not at the expense of everything else.
JT for his first 3 seasons, was one of the dumbest basketball players I've seen in years. Top 2% of dumb.
Last year, he made HUGE strides in the BBIQ area. So much, that I wouldn;t mind him being on the team next year -
if he was making what he made last year.
But if he's going to be making much more than $4 million, the Kings simply can't afford committing that much money for a mediocre backup.
Year GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2008–09 82 56 28.1 .497 .000 .692 7.4 1.1 .6 .7 11.1
2009–10 75 58 31.4 .472 .100 .715 8.5 1.7 .6 1.0 12.5
2010–11 75 39 23.3 .507 .000 .605 6.1 1.2 .4 .6 8.8
2011–12 64 47 25.9 .535 .000 .602 6.9 1.2 .7 .7 9.1
He's just not worth sinking multiple years of decent money to, when they have a team full of mediocre players.
They need to combine the multiple mediocre players into one seasoned, clutch vet player.
Last year, he made HUGE strides in the BBIQ area. So much, that I wouldn;t mind him being on the team next year -
if he was making what he made last year.
But if he's going to be making much more than $4 million, the Kings simply can't afford committing that much money for a mediocre backup.
Year GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2008–09 82 56 28.1 .497 .000 .692 7.4 1.1 .6 .7 11.1
2009–10 75 58 31.4 .472 .100 .715 8.5 1.7 .6 1.0 12.5
2010–11 75 39 23.3 .507 .000 .605 6.1 1.2 .4 .6 8.8
2011–12 64 47 25.9 .535 .000 .602 6.9 1.2 .7 .7 9.1
He's just not worth sinking multiple years of decent money to, when they have a team full of mediocre players.
They need to combine the multiple mediocre players into one seasoned, clutch vet player.
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If we end up with nothing more than Cuz, Robinson, JT, Hayes, and Whiteside, and Whiteside proves to be effective, you tell me whose minutes will probably go down? JT's or Hayes? My bet is Hayes, which would also make him tradable at that point. You can only deal with what is, not what you hope it will be. And what is right now is we don't have anything resembling a shotblocker other than Whiteside, who I still have high hopes for. We're not going to get Ibaka or Chandler. Dalembert looks like a real longshot at this point after being traded.
What I don't want is see, is us sitting there with Cuz, Robinson, and just Hayes as the first man coming off the bench. We got killed last year with just Hayes out there. So to my mind, signing JT is insurance against that. He would give us three nice bigs to rotate with either Hayes or Whiteside. Now if we can make a trade for shotblocker, then figure out the rotations after the fact. But whatever we do, lets not get caught with our pants down, and end up with neither JT or a shotblocker. Because thats a real possibliity is we screw around.
By the way, I also believe that Cousins is going to be a much better defender next season and in the future. Why? Because he wants to be, and what Cousins wants, he works hard to acheive.
What I don't want is see, is us sitting there with Cuz, Robinson, and just Hayes as the first man coming off the bench. We got killed last year with just Hayes out there. So to my mind, signing JT is insurance against that. He would give us three nice bigs to rotate with either Hayes or Whiteside. Now if we can make a trade for shotblocker, then figure out the rotations after the fact. But whatever we do, lets not get caught with our pants down, and end up with neither JT or a shotblocker. Because thats a real possibliity is we screw around.
By the way, I also believe that Cousins is going to be a much better defender next season and in the future. Why? Because he wants to be, and what Cousins wants, he works hard to acheive.
No one knows JT's game better than I do, and all I can say is your wrong. Stats don't and have never shown the true worth of a player. If you would have looked at Anthony Davis stats alone, there's no way he would appear to be the first player in the draft. Not saying they don't have their place, but they're far from showing the whole picture.
Now, for you to say JT is dumb, is confirmation of your stupidity. You don't know JT. You've never sat down and had a conversation with him. As I stated earlier, knowing how to do something, and doing it are two different things. Do you actually think that JT doesn't know how to play basketball? That he doesn't know the plays and where he's susposed to be. Now if you want to say that he used to react slower than he should, then thats a fair statement. Because I think when JT came into the league he spent too much time thinking, and not enough time reacting. And in the NBA, thats a death sentence.
In short, the league was moving faster than he was used to, and as a result, he either reacted to slowly, or he did the opposite, and ended up rushing. Either way, he seldom got the result he was looking for. Its one of the reasons that sometimes big men take longer to adjust to the league. But it has nothing to do with BBIQ. It has to do with how he used his BBIQ. Now I apologize for calling you stupid, but I figured if you felt you could call JT dumb or stupid, then I would take the same liberty with you. Personally I don't like calling people names. But I especially don't like it when people on a fourm say derogatory things about players, when the player can't defend himself. If you wouldn't say it to JT's face, (something I don't recommend), then don't say it here.
As to what JT is worth on the market, well, thats subjective, but personally I think he's worth more than you do. But I do have my limit.
Now, for you to say JT is dumb, is confirmation of your stupidity. You don't know JT. You've never sat down and had a conversation with him. As I stated earlier, knowing how to do something, and doing it are two different things. Do you actually think that JT doesn't know how to play basketball? That he doesn't know the plays and where he's susposed to be. Now if you want to say that he used to react slower than he should, then thats a fair statement. Because I think when JT came into the league he spent too much time thinking, and not enough time reacting. And in the NBA, thats a death sentence.
In short, the league was moving faster than he was used to, and as a result, he either reacted to slowly, or he did the opposite, and ended up rushing. Either way, he seldom got the result he was looking for. Its one of the reasons that sometimes big men take longer to adjust to the league. But it has nothing to do with BBIQ. It has to do with how he used his BBIQ. Now I apologize for calling you stupid, but I figured if you felt you could call JT dumb or stupid, then I would take the same liberty with you. Personally I don't like calling people names. But I especially don't like it when people on a fourm say derogatory things about players, when the player can't defend himself. If you wouldn't say it to JT's face, (something I don't recommend), then don't say it here.
As to what JT is worth on the market, well, thats subjective, but personally I think he's worth more than you do. But I do have my limit.
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I like the idea of bringing JT back in theory, depending on how expensive it's going to be. I'm concerned though when I hear Geoff say that is his priority because frontcourt depth is no longer a need for us whereas "none of our SFs are any good" is a pretty big problem. If Smart plays Tyreke at SF again next season, he's not re-signing with us. Worst defensive team in the league is a pretty big problem. And JT coming back also means Whiteside continues to be buried on the depth chart and he's the one guy on our roster who could make a significant impact on our interior defense if he ever becomes part of the rotation.
If we amnesty Salmons and buyout Garcia's contract so that we actually have the cap space to acquire a SF than I can see bringing Thompson back to bolster our frontcourt depth and establish some continuity. But we both know that's not how this team operates. Jason is going to get overpaid just like all of our own free agents do since Petrie has been the GM, and the Maloofs are going to say "you know what, we're at the minimum salary already -- we're good". I don't want to be right about this, it's just that I've been punched in the gut so many times in so many off-seasons that I can't realistically see it going any other way.
If we amnesty Salmons and buyout Garcia's contract so that we actually have the cap space to acquire a SF than I can see bringing Thompson back to bolster our frontcourt depth and establish some continuity. But we both know that's not how this team operates. Jason is going to get overpaid just like all of our own free agents do since Petrie has been the GM, and the Maloofs are going to say "you know what, we're at the minimum salary already -- we're good". I don't want to be right about this, it's just that I've been punched in the gut so many times in so many off-seasons that I can't realistically see it going any other way.
Having JT,TRob, and Hayes on our team at the same time makes no sense. You want complimentary pieces, not duplicates. If we go into the season with those three guys trying to share minutes, we will lose more games than we did last year. As much as I like JT, now that we have TRob I just do not see what JT's role would be on the team. Letting JT walk now would be addition by subtraction. As of last night, the direction of our team has changed and our needs have changed. Unfortunately I think the FO will sign him because he will come at a reasonable price and no one else will come here but we need to fill the roster spot. Whiteside will be buried if we sign JT. I would much rather see Whiteside get some playing time after the glimpses we saw last year than be saddled with yet another redundant piece.
I do think he is a priority for the right price. Thing is I think JT has considerable value around the league and I agree with what you've said on his improvement. But, I also think it depends on the situation and different players have more or less value depending on those situations. If we didn't draft TRob and say drafted a SF instead, then JT is probably worth 7M to us as we're incredibly short on a frontline rotation. However with TRob, and given their somewhat similarities in style of play, his value to use becomes less than he might to another team. I jsut don't think we're in a position to risk overpaying another bench player.
Now, stacked up against Chuck, Salmons, Cisco, I'd much rather overpay JT a little compared to them. But given we also have all those guys on the bench, and possibly MT as well, we're paying our bench a crap load while not not solving two glaring problems imo, in a defensive SF or 3rd big rim protector. I like JT a lot, but don't want signing him to negate our ability to fill other needs. If JT were to get an offer for 6M and we match, and I think he'll get a little above that, than were paying JT/Chuck/Salmons/Outlaw ~22M and our glaring problems haven't been touched.
I'm just extremely wary of of the trend of overpaying bench players and handicapping our flexibility to solve other problems. How high to do you personally go with JT? I'd go about 5M, but doubt that would get him as I think he'll get better offers and think he's worth more than that. But given our current situation I don't think he's worth more to us. BTW, I do like the TRob pick, just think whoever is behind him ideally should bring something not as similar to his skillset as JT would. Maybe Asik. Call around and see what we could possibly get in a trade. It's not an easy situation and we're mostly brainstorming here and the smaller window to accept offer sheets compicates things.
Would you rather pay JT 7M or possibly a bit more, and not have room to go after a SF, or would you rather offer AK/GW/Ilyasova 10M, and try to find a cheaper 3rd big than what JT would be? You're right we could end up without JT and be stuck with Chuck/Hassan, or we could go after and resign JT, and be stuck with Salmons/Cisco/Reke at SF. Could go either way and they both effect each other. But I agree with Arcitect that I'd rather stay away from duplicative players, and would rather steer towards variety.
Now, stacked up against Chuck, Salmons, Cisco, I'd much rather overpay JT a little compared to them. But given we also have all those guys on the bench, and possibly MT as well, we're paying our bench a crap load while not not solving two glaring problems imo, in a defensive SF or 3rd big rim protector. I like JT a lot, but don't want signing him to negate our ability to fill other needs. If JT were to get an offer for 6M and we match, and I think he'll get a little above that, than were paying JT/Chuck/Salmons/Outlaw ~22M and our glaring problems haven't been touched.
I'm just extremely wary of of the trend of overpaying bench players and handicapping our flexibility to solve other problems. How high to do you personally go with JT? I'd go about 5M, but doubt that would get him as I think he'll get better offers and think he's worth more than that. But given our current situation I don't think he's worth more to us. BTW, I do like the TRob pick, just think whoever is behind him ideally should bring something not as similar to his skillset as JT would. Maybe Asik. Call around and see what we could possibly get in a trade. It's not an easy situation and we're mostly brainstorming here and the smaller window to accept offer sheets compicates things.
Would you rather pay JT 7M or possibly a bit more, and not have room to go after a SF, or would you rather offer AK/GW/Ilyasova 10M, and try to find a cheaper 3rd big than what JT would be? You're right we could end up without JT and be stuck with Chuck/Hassan, or we could go after and resign JT, and be stuck with Salmons/Cisco/Reke at SF. Could go either way and they both effect each other. But I agree with Arcitect that I'd rather stay away from duplicative players, and would rather steer towards variety.
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Our current front line is Cousins, JT, Hayes, Robinson and Whitehead. Greene is history. We need to resign JT more than ever. With those four in the fold defensive rebounding will be least of Kings problems. Hopefully, Whitehead can continue to show improvement which he did in baby steps last season. I don't think Hassan will be buried on the bench going forward as he develops - but at this point he's still a project unlike four front court players in front of him. We need all FIVE of them for 2012-13. Still, if JT goes I don't think it's disasterous but getting rid of a fat contact - Salmons, Hayes, or Outlaw would be better.
I think we sign JT and use Hayes and MT as a package to try to get a SF in trade. I can't imagine any FA signing with the Kings. Our reputation is dying by the moment compounded by selling the 2nd round pick yesterday. I think we need JT as injuries and foul problems are part of the game. I don't want us to be stuck with Hayes as the only backup. I have no faith in Whiteside or Whitehead or whatever his name is. 
I think we sign JT and use Hayes and MT as a package to try to get a SF in trade. I can't imagine any FA signing with the Kings. Our reputation is dying by the moment compounded by selling the 2nd round pick yesterday. I think we need JT as injuries and foul problems are part of the game. I don't want us to be stuck with Hayes as the only backup. I have no faith in Whiteside or Whitehead or whatever his name is.
I re-sign Thompson with the quickness.
This team needs at least a little continuity. JT is one of the few faces that have been with this franchise over the past few years. He's also a hard worker who always comes into camp in shape. He's a team player, a good guy, and probably a good influence on this very young team. He is a very good rebounder and runs the floor well, which is consistent with Smart's vision of the team.
JT does not bring a shot blocking presence and I can understand bringing up that issue, but all things considered small forward remains a much greater priority as there's zero quality at that position.
I also feel that, if the organization hasn't given up on Whiteside, there's plenty of room in the rotation for him to play 10 minutes and change the game, at least momentarily, with his shotblocking. The depth chart would look something like this next year:
Robinson (28 minutes)/Thompson (25 minutes)
Cousins (33 minutes)/Whiteside (10 minutes)
Hayes is the odd man out, which is fine by me. The problem is finding any takers but, if you do, the Kings payroll for front court players is far more palatable.
The back court and big men are relative strengths at this point on the depth chart and, IMHO, all energy should go into landing a quality starting small forward who can reliably shoot the ball and play defense.
This is how I see the depth chart if the Kings could only jettison Salmons, Outlaw, and Hayes while keeping Garcia only so that his contract can expire.
Thomas/Fredette
Evans/Thornton/Garcia
(Free Agent or Trade)/Williams/Honeycutt
Robinson/Thompson
Cousins/Whiteside
This team needs at least a little continuity. JT is one of the few faces that have been with this franchise over the past few years. He's also a hard worker who always comes into camp in shape. He's a team player, a good guy, and probably a good influence on this very young team. He is a very good rebounder and runs the floor well, which is consistent with Smart's vision of the team.
JT does not bring a shot blocking presence and I can understand bringing up that issue, but all things considered small forward remains a much greater priority as there's zero quality at that position.
I also feel that, if the organization hasn't given up on Whiteside, there's plenty of room in the rotation for him to play 10 minutes and change the game, at least momentarily, with his shotblocking. The depth chart would look something like this next year:
Robinson (28 minutes)/Thompson (25 minutes)
Cousins (33 minutes)/Whiteside (10 minutes)
Hayes is the odd man out, which is fine by me. The problem is finding any takers but, if you do, the Kings payroll for front court players is far more palatable.
The back court and big men are relative strengths at this point on the depth chart and, IMHO, all energy should go into landing a quality starting small forward who can reliably shoot the ball and play defense.
This is how I see the depth chart if the Kings could only jettison Salmons, Outlaw, and Hayes while keeping Garcia only so that his contract can expire.
Thomas/Fredette
Evans/Thornton/Garcia
(Free Agent or Trade)/Williams/Honeycutt
Robinson/Thompson
Cousins/Whiteside
Bajaden's signature says it all about this argument. I too know JT from his first moments in the league at summer league. Not many bigs can run the court at JT can. Robinson is another. JT played the 5 in college after playing the 1 in high school and as a freshman then he grew. JT is the most consistent player on the team, night after night. We have only 3 bigs now: Cuz, JT and a raw rookie Robinson. Hayes is listed as a 5 but at 6-6 is at major disadvantage. Whiteside is the hope for the future but he has to learn how to play BBall first then learn how to play in the NBA. Then maybe we have 4 bigs. But for now JT is critical to the Kings as he can play both the 4 and 5.
Thanks for the suggestion. I suggest you try watching with more objectivity. ;-)
Note that I never said JT was a bad player; I just think that some of you overrate him, especially as a defender. If he's to be our 3rd big, I can live with it. And I hope he continues to improve. In fact, I'm sure he will continue to improve. But I would prefer to have someone in that position be a better defender and have better shotblocking skills, and - yes - have better BBIQ. We've got far too many players who continue to make the same mistakes, over and over. And the idea that this is because we're a young team is an excuse that's getting old.
Note that I never said JT was a bad player; I just think that some of you overrate him, especially as a defender. If he's to be our 3rd big, I can live with it. And I hope he continues to improve. In fact, I'm sure he will continue to improve. But I would prefer to have someone in that position be a better defender and have better shotblocking skills, and - yes - have better BBIQ. We've got far too many players who continue to make the same mistakes, over and over. And the idea that this is because we're a young team is an excuse that's getting old.
So you people low balling on JT. Rumor is the Rockets are offering Omer Asik $8 mil per year.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...free-agency-chicago--20120701,0,6281776.story
johnhollinger John Hollinger
RT @KCJHoop: Hearing Rockets prepared to offer Omer Asik in the $8 million range annually.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...free-agency-chicago--20120701,0,6281776.story
johnhollinger John Hollinger
RT @KCJHoop: Hearing Rockets prepared to offer Omer Asik in the $8 million range annually.
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Don't play dumb.
Asik was the 8th best shotblocker in the entire league last year per minute (3.36 per 48). He blocked shots at a better rate than Marcus Camby, Roy Hibbert, Andrew Bynum or Dwight Howard. Jason averaged 1.27 per 48. Minor difference.
As an aside, if we weren't broke, and if we had not just drafted a PF in the draft, an offer like that made to Asik could be just the thing to shake the Noah apple free in Chicago. The 4 huge contracts (Rose, Boozer, Nah and Deng) are crushing them, and if they want to retain Asik and Gibson as well they are either going to have to lose one of the big contracts or pay like $50mil in lux tax. Literally.
Asik was the 8th best shotblocker in the entire league last year per minute (3.36 per 48). He blocked shots at a better rate than Marcus Camby, Roy Hibbert, Andrew Bynum or Dwight Howard. Jason averaged 1.27 per 48. Minor difference.
As an aside, if we weren't broke, and if we had not just drafted a PF in the draft, an offer like that made to Asik could be just the thing to shake the Noah apple free in Chicago. The 4 huge contracts (Rose, Boozer, Nah and Deng) are crushing them, and if they want to retain Asik and Gibson as well they are either going to have to lose one of the big contracts or pay like $50mil in lux tax. Literally.
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