Kings extend qualifying offer to Jason Thompson

rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#31
#31
ESP47 said:
If we got a defensive big and there weren't many minutes for him, doesn't that mean Thompson is a better player? If you can't play well enough to get minutes then you aren't as good a defensive stopper as you think.
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No, the point is if we sign JT for say 6M or possibly more, how much $ do we have to go out and get the defensive big we don't have. If we were to get one and he becomes our 3rd big, then we're paying a newly signed JT 6M+ to be a 4th big.

Cuz 3.9M
TRob 3M?
Hayes 5.5M
JT 6M+

about 18M total and none intimidate or block shots. If we bring back JT there isn't even room for a shotblocking 3rd big. And if we did somehow bring one in and he jumped JT in the rotation, then we're paying our 4th and 5th bigs, JT/Hayes a combined 11.5M+.
 
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The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#32
#32
rainmaker said:
No, the point is if we sign JT for say 6M or possibly more, how much $ do we have to go out and get the defensive big we don't have. If we were to get one and he becomes our 3rd big, then we're paying a newly signed JT 6M+ to be a 4th big.
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Perhaps, we're sold on Hassan Whiteside. As far as Im concerned, I believe Whitey can be that Dally, Haywood, Jordan type defender very easily. After 2 years, I think it's time we throw him to the wolves for 10-15 minutes a game and see what he can do
 
Section 101

Section 101

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#34
#34
rainmaker said:
No, the point is if we sign JT for say 6M or possibly more, how much $ do we have to go out and get the defensive big we don't have. If we were to get one and he becomes our 3rd big, then we're paying a newly signed JT 6M+ to be a 4th big.

Cuz 3.9M
TRob 3M?
Hayes 5.5M
JT 6M+

about 18M total and none intimidate or block shots. If we bring back JT there isn't even room for a shotblocking 3rd big. And if we did somehow bring one in and he jumped JT in the rotation, then we're paying our 4th and 5th bigs, JT/Hayes a combined 11.5M+.
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A PF in hand is better than 2 shot blockers in the bush.
 
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The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#35
#35
rainmaker said:
Sounds like that might be our hope. But Petrie said we needed to add shotblocking this summer, so it didn't sound like he has much confidence in Hassan filling that role. I'd hope he could if it came to it.
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I don't see why he couldn't. He's exactly the same player as those guys we supposedly "need".

Given 20-25 minutes of play, I could see Whiteside being an 8-8-2 player. His defense probably wouldn't be very good, but hey, he can block a shot
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

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#36
#36
The_Jamal said:
I don't see why he couldn't. He's exactly the same player as those guys we supposedly "need".

Given 20-25 minutes of play, I could see Whiteside being an 8-8-2 player. His defense probably wouldn't be very good, but hey, he can block a shot
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If he were ready for 20-25mins per night I'd be all for it, but if that were the case then I would not pay JT 6M+. 20-25min is 3rd big status. No need for JT for the amount he'll get this summer.
 
Section 101

Section 101

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#37
#37
rainmaker said:
If he were ready for 20-25mins per night I'd be all for it, but if that were the case then I would not pay JT 6M+. 20-25min is 3rd big status. No need for JT for the amount he'll get this summer.
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Your also missing the point that JT will still be an asset. He has trade value that's more than what we can sign another FA for.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#38
#38
rainmaker said:
If he were ready for 20-25mins per night I'd be all for it, but if that were the case then I would not pay JT 6M+. 20-25min is 3rd big status. No need for JT for the amount he'll get this summer.
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Thing is that there are probably 20 or so teams willing to add JT to their roster. Sign him so that we have a third big while we continue to try and develop Hassan, then when/if Hassanity is ready, trade JT or TR.


This plan is contingent on us not signing JT to a Drew Gooden deal
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#39
#39
Section 101 said:
Your also missing the point that JT will still be an asset. He has trade value that's more than what we can sign another FA for.
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No, you're missing the point that with our owners and already paying the above mentioned the above proposed amount is a waste of money, and paying all that money without filling a serious need is a bigger waste.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#40
#40
Tetsujin said:
Thing is that there are probably 20 or so teams willing to add JT to their roster. Sign him so that we have a third big while we continue to try and develop Hassan, then when/if Hassanity is ready, trade JT or TR.


This plan is contingent on us not signing JT to a Drew Gooden deal
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That;s probably what we'll see. If we didn't have Chuck it would make sense. But to match the 6M+, and I do think it will be more, and paying Chuck/JT a combined 12M to come off the bench and not fill the defensive needs, SF problem or PG problem is a waste of money given our current situation. With broke owners and more pertinent issues, why pay the JT/Chuck combo so much just in the hope of trading him down the road?

How many times do we need to sign guys to contracts who don't fill a need only to find out they're harder to move than we thought?
 
Section 101

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#41
#41
rainmaker said:
No, you're missing the point that with our owners and already paying the above mentioned the above proposed amount is a waste of money, and paying all that money without filling a serious need is a bigger waste.
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So you would rather have more Hayes and Outlaw signings off the Amnesty waivers? That's what we will be getting, players worse than JT. They still have to meet the min cap requirement.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#42
#42
rainmaker said:
That;s probably what we'll see. If we didn't have Chuck it would make sense. But to match the 6M+, and I do think it will be more, and paying Chuck/JT a combined 12M to come off the bench and not fill the defensive needs, SF problem or PG problem is a waste of money given our current situation. With broke owners and more pertinent issues, why pay the JT/Chuck combo so much just in the hope of trading him down the road?

How many times do we need to sign guys to contracts who don't fill a need only to find out they're harder to move than we thought?
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I think you're underestimating the Maloof's penchant for being stupid. They'll probably sign JT anyways (hey, another excuse to keep selling Goon Squad t-shirts) and leave us with a gaping hole at SF.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#43
#43
I would sign JT with the intention of trading Hayes. How possible is that? I can't say for sure. But If JT is signing for a million or so more than Chuck .. I'm taking him and figuring out a new home for Hayes as soon as possible.

Sign and trade is also possible. I'd be more open to that option now than I was before the Robinson pickup. It's tough though, because there just aren't that many SF's available that fit with our team.

Iggy would still help. 76ers took Moe Harkless with their first pick. With Hawes a free agent and Brand possibly amnestied, AND Lou Williams opting out of his deal..would the 76ers take JT and Thornton for Iggy? Are we close? I know JT is a philly guy. He could help them.
 
Section 101

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#44
#44
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
I would sign JT with the intention of trading Hayes. How possible is that? I can't say for sure. But If JT is signing for a million or so more than Chuck .. I'm taking him and figuring out a new home for Hayes as soon as possible.

Sign and trade is also possible. I'd be more open to that option now than I was before the Robinson pickup. It's tough though, because there just aren't that many SF's available that fit with our team.

Iggy would still help. 76ers took Moe Harkless with their first pick. With Hawes a free agent and Brand possibly amnestied, AND Lou Williams opting out of his deal..would the 76ers take JT and Thornton for Iggy? Are we close? I know JT is a philly guy. He could help them.
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Sign and trade has lost most of it's benefits now. The only real reason for a sign and trade is if the team wanting the player doesn't have the cap room and needs to send salary out. Players no longer can get the extra year and increase in bumps from sign and trades.

I still say people are way off on JT's value. He's getting a bigger deal than people think.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#45
#45
I'd kindof hoped Thomas Robinson had settled the Jason Thompson question. We didn't go out and get Lowry to be our steadying veteran presence, we didn't find a stud SF, we didn't add a shotblocker but we did finally end our search for an NBA quality starting PF, a search which we've been on ever since the Webber trade. Sure in an ideal world Jason Thompson would be nice to have as a third big off the bench at a mid-level deal but any money we give Thompson is money we can't use to patch holes elsewhere and PF is now arguably the most covered position on the roster. Robinson should start at PF, Cousins can play there, Hayes can play there, Whiteside can play there. If Whiteside isn't the third or fourth big off the bench at this point than just save us all the hassle and let him sign somewhere else. We don't have even one half decent SF on our roster, we have 3-4 guys who we auditioned there who couldn't cut it on one of the worst teams in the league. That should be Petrie's priority right now.

You know how many players Miami has signed to mid-level contracts? One. Oklahoma city? One. We have four already and that's before we price ourselves out of the running for every impact free agent by re-signing Jason Thompson. That's not getting it done Petrie!
 
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rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#46
#46
Section 101 said:
So you would rather have more Hayes and Outlaw signings off the Amnesty waivers? That's what we will be getting, players worse than JT. They still have to meet the min cap requirement.
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Where'd I say any of that? I've been pretty clear who I'd rather offer contracts which fill more pertinent needs.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#47
#47
hrdboild said:
I'd kindof hoped Thomas Robinson had settled the Jason Thompson question. We didn't go out and get Lowry to be our steadying veteran presence, we didn't find a stud SF, we didn't add a shotblocker but we did finally end our search for an NBA quality starting PF, a search which we've been on ever since the Webber trade. Sure in an ideal world Jason Thompson would be nice to have as a third big off the bench at a mid-level deal but any money we give Thompson is money we can't use to patch holes elsewhere and PF is now arguably the most covered position on the roster. Robinson should start at PF, Cousins can play there, Hayes can play there, Whiteside can play there. If Whiteside isn't the third or fourth big off the bench at this point than just save us all the hassle and let him sign somewhere else. We don't have even one half decent SF on our roster, we have 3-4 guys who we auditioned there who couldn't cut it on one of the worst teams in the league. That should be Petrie's priority right now.

You know how many players Miami has signed to mid-level contracts? One. Oklahoma city? One. We have four already and that's before we price ourselves out of the running for every impact free agent by re-signing Jason Thompson. That's not getting it done Petrie!
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Exactly. Really not that complicated. You spend the money you would matching JT's offers on someone else who fills a need more important than 3rd-4th big who isn't a shotblocker. If we sign JT for 6M, then we've spend a chunk of our cap room, used our 5th pick, and still haven't touched on the shotblocker or SF needs.
 
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#49
#49
rainmaker said:
Where'd I say any of that? I've been pretty clear who I'd rather offer contracts which fill more pertinent needs.
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Offer contracts does not mean you get the players. What happens when they sign somewhere else and you are forced to fill $13 million in cap space on 3 open roster spots?
 
Section 101

Section 101

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#50
#50
hrdboild said:
You know how many players Miami has signed to mid-level contracts? One. Oklahoma city? One. We have four already and that's before we price ourselves out of the running for every impact free agent by re-signing Jason Thompson. That's not getting it done Petrie!
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Mike Miller, Shane Battier are 2. Kinda of a mute point anyways when the team is only 2 years in existance. They basically couldnt offer full mid levels because they needed to split the salary between multiple players to fill the roster.

OKC got lucky. They had the 2, 4, 3 number draft picks in consecutive drafts and that #2 was durant. Where would they be if Portland took Durant and OKC got Oden?
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#51
#51
Section 101 said:
Mike Miller, Shane Battier are 2. Kinda of a mute point anyways when the team is only 2 years in existance. They basically couldnt offer full mid levels because they needed to split the salary between multiple players to fill the roster.

OKC got lucky. They had the 2, 4, 3 number draft picks in consecutive drafts and that #2 was durant. Where would they be if Portland took Durant and OKC got Oden?
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Shane Battier makes $3 million. That's not a mid-level deal, that's a veteran's minimum deal (given his years of experience). Semantics? I don't think so. My point is that mid-level players are not stars (or they'd be getting $10 miilion per year or more) but they have a big enough contract (at least $5 million per year) that they are a significant hit on your cap space. Put four of them together and you could have a max level player on your team. Would you rather have Salmons, Garcia, Hayes, and Thornton or would you rather have an All-Star SF?

You can make all sorts of excuses for how unlucky we are but the reality is we've had just as many high draft picks as OKC. Petrie has no one to blame but himself for the contracts he gave to Udrih (which became Salmons), Garcia, Hayes, and Thornton. Thornton is at least a solid starter so I'll excuse that one but when you actually step back and realize that we couldn't afford a max player right now even if one wanted to sign with us, surely you acknowledge that we have a cap management problem.

I picked Miami and OKC obviously because they were the champion and runner-up this year. If you survey the rosters of every team in the league you'll see that most teams have one or two mid-level types of players making between 5 and 10 million per year. Then you have rookie deals, star or near star players making at least 10 million per year, and veterans making 3-4 million per year to be roleplayers. If Jason Thompson wants to re-sign here for $3 million per year great, I'm on board. But we all know that's not going to happen. Remember when Petrie made re-signing Beno Udrih and Francisco Garcia a priority? Look how far they carried us. And Thompson is both more productive than those players and a big, so he stands to make even more.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#52
#52
hrdboild said:
Shane Battier makes $3 million. That's not a mid-level deal, that's a veteran's minimum deal (given his years of experience). Semantics? I don't think so. My point is that mid-level players are not stars (or they'd be getting $10 miilion per year or more) but they have a big enough contract (at least $5 million per year) that they are a significant hit on your cap space. Put four of them together and you could have a max level player on your team. Would you rather have Salmons, Garcia, Hayes, and Thornton or would you rather have an All-Star SF? .
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MLE is a max $5 year to start. The Vet min salary is around $1.5 mil for a 10 year player.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/BeyondtheArc/archives/2011/12/08/so-long-shane-battier-signs-with-heat

Shane Battier announced this morning via his Twitter feed that he will be signing with the Miami Heat, joining Lebron James and Dwyane Wade in pursuit of a title. Details of the contract haven't leaked out but will be getting all or part of the Heat's mid-level exception, which maxes out at four years starting at $5 million.
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They used the rest to sign Eddie Curry.

I'm not saying signing players to mid levels is the way to go. I'm just refuting the mis information you posted and didn't bother to really check yourself.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#53
#53
Section 101 said:
MLE is a max $5 year to start. The Vet min salary is around $1.5 mil for a 10 year player.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/BeyondtheArc/archives/2011/12/08/so-long-shane-battier-signs-with-heat

They used the rest to sign Eddie Curry.

I'm not saying signing players to mid levels is the way to go. I'm just refuting the mis information you posted and didn't bother to really check yourself.
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Jesus christ man, way to completely ignore everything I said to nitpick the smallest most insignificant detail. Don't call it a mid-level contract then, call it a 5-10 million dollar "more than one or two of these guys on your roster and you're probably a bad team" contract.

Battier was eligible to make up to $5 million per year last year according to the terms of the mid-level exception. He actually made exactly $3 million last year and his contract tops out at $3.27 million in the 2013/2014 season.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#54
#54
Looks like 10 teams can have over $10 mil in cap space this year. Charlotte, Toronto, New Jersey, Houston, New Orleans, Indiana, Boston, Portland, Phoenix and Cleveland.

I could really see the Nets going after JT. They have like 3 players under contract. The Suns are another team in rebuild mode that can use a PF. Houston could go after him if they lose Camby. JT is an upgrade over Ed Davis and Amir Johnson in Toronto. The bobcats are trying to get rid of tyrus thomas. JT would be a stabilzing force after him.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#56
#56
The_Jamal said:
^ my question as well. I'm also going to get very tired of hearing we don't have a "defensive big" quite quickly. Thomas Robinson was one of the best post defenders in the country last season
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I'm hopeful he will continue to develop on the defensive end and he is a good post defender but he doesnt currently address the team interior defense problem we will continue to have with the combination of our poor perimeter defenders and cousins.
 
K

kingsfan101

Starter
#57
#57
The_Jamal said:
^ my question as well. I'm also going to get very tired of hearing we don't have a "defensive big" quite quickly. Thomas Robinson was one of the best post defenders in the country last season
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Editing the post a little, since realized that the original comments I responded to were from rainmaker.

But I was not talking about T-Rob. I was responding to the point about the dollars we spend/commit on JT preventing us from going after a defensive big we don't have.

Who is available (realistically) that we could pursue to risk losing JT? Unless we have something reasonably possible, extending a qualifying offer to JT, and signing him to a reasonable contract is a no brainer (to me at least).
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#59
#59
jcassio said:
Good job for now, but that doesn't mean I want him on the team next year. JT's a low BB IQ guy on a team that is desperately in need of IQ. He rebounds well and runs the floor well, but everything else needs improvement.
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I suggest you try watching the game without the blindfold of preconcieved opinon. He has improved dramaticly over his stay here, with his biggest improvement coming last season when he started attacking with his left hand. JT isn't a star, but he's the perfect journeman PF whose willing to do all the bluecollar work. And there's nothing wrong with his BBIQ. Remember, knowing and doing don't always come together.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#60
#60
Spike said:
How many players do we have to accuse of having a low bball IQ before we realize the problem is coming from somewhere else? JT is a solid player, and a big that we need terribly right now. Take a look at the roster. He doesn't try to play above himself, and we need someone like that at the 4. Hopefully he ends up being the 3rd big, but he is hardly a problem.
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Its a cute phrase to throw out there, but I honestly don't think some of the people even know what BBIQ is. So as not to insult anyone, I'll just leave it at that. All I'll say, is that JT knows how to play the game. Just like I knew how to hit a curve ball when I played, despite the fact that some jerk just struck me out on one.
 
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