Kings considering retiring Peja's number?

[John Galt]

Apparently Ben McLemore tweeted that he was switching to #17 so they could retire Peja's number. Then Chris Granger said "we've considered retiring Peja's number, and he certainly deserves that honor and that's all I'll say". Later tweets confirmed that Ben would wear #16 this season.

Do you guys think #16 should be retired? The notion shocked me.

 

[KingMilz]

The whole taking numbers away from players being able to wear them is dumb, retire the man's jersey let it hang up but why not allow anyone else to where it, that's just dumb.

 

[Löwenherz]

The whole taking numbers away from players being able to wear them is dumb, retire the man's jersey let it hang up but why not allow anyone else to where it, that's just dumb.

I think you're missing what "retire a jersey" means.

 

[Spike]

I voted for "why not?", mostly because I didn't feel that "of course not" was as appropriate. Now, were I to choose between "of course" and "of course not", then I suppose I would have to think about things awhile. I mean, #21 is retired, isn't it?

 

[VF21]

I voted for "why not?", mostly because I didn't feel that "of course not" was as appropriate. Now, were I to choose between "of course" and "of course not", then I suppose I would have to think about things awhile. I mean, #21 is retired, isn't it?

Seriously? You think Peja was as important to this team as Vlade was?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Seriously? You think Peja was as important to this team as Vlade was?

I think Peja was more important to this team than a lot of people realize. I know, I know, folks don't like advanced metrics, but do you know who holds the career record for Win Shares as a Sacramento King? Peja, with 59.8, in front of Richmond (50.4), Webber (45.5), Bibby (42.9), Miller (39.5), and Vlade (39.4). Peja is fourth in franchise history (Sac/KC/Cin/Roc), well behind Robertson (154.2) but not so far off of Jack Twyman (75.0) and Bobby Wanzer (63.9).

Sure, Peja wasn't an interior defender and rebounder, and those roles are important, and they're why we've retired Vlade's number and big part of why we retired Webber's number. But he was a great scorer (scored more total points than Webber, and more efficiently, over their Kings tenures), and he spaced the floor and moved on offense beautifully, taking defensive pressure off the interior guys while he did it.

I definitely voted "why not" over "of course not", and I'd probably pick "of course" over "of course not" as well, though if there were a third middle option I'd likely take that.

 

[Spike]

Seriously? You think Peja was as important to this team as Vlade was?

I didn't say that Peja was as important, but if Vlade's number was retired, I don't see why Peja's wouldn't be. Peja brought a lot of international fans to Sacramento and was a big part of the golden era. Granted, this is all within the context of the history of the Sacramento Kings, but I think that he brought a significant amount of importance to the team as well. Capt.'s stats tend to bear it out, but I wasn't even thinking of numbers, just significance.

 

[John Galt]

In my opinion, Vlade and CWebb made up one of the most electrifying "passing big man tandems" in history. Retiring their numbers makes some sense even though they still aren't legendary in the "Stockton-Malone" kind of way, they are on the bottom edge of "retired number worthy" players and I think it was fitting for the team to retire them.

Peja is not in the ballpark at all in my opinion. Nice shooter, nice contributor, nice passer too... lots to like as a player. But retiring a Jersey is for borderline Hall of Fame type players. If Peja had broken the color barrier or something, then ok... but seriously if the Kings retire #16 I think it weakens the honor for everyone else. So we're going to retire 60% of a starting lineup that never won so much as a conference championship? Pushing it I think...

 

[Bricklayer]

No. Sorry. More noveau owner/management nonsense. They didn't own the franchise during that era, they weren't here for its history. Retiring Peja denigrates the importance of the Vlade/Webb pairing. Maybe their new "basketball statistics scientist" went back and said hey look, some dude named Peja had a higher TS% than that Vlade guy. Maybe they wanted to retire a number of their own to put up next to the Maloof retirements. Or maybe just as likely they are again misreading tea leaves and thinking they can buy some cheap local goodwill by retiring a number that the local yokels will all go nuts over.

You retire franchise players. HOF or near HOF players, and very occasionally someone who was special as the heart and soul of the franchise ala a Vlade or possibly at some point a Big Ben in Detroit. Peja was none of the above. Neither were Bibby, Reke, Theus etc. etc.

 

[VF21]

Or maybe it's another one of those Twitter much ado about nothing...

NBC Sports has picked up the nonsense, and quoted the Sacramento Bee as the source:

Rookie Ben McLemore must be a little prescient. A short while ago on Twitter, he alerted Kings fans that he was changing his jersey from No.16 to No.17 “for a good reason.” Like the fact the organization plans to retire Peja Stojakovic’s No.16 jersey in the near future? No confirmation yet – and nothing is imminent – but that’s very likely the plan.

Meantime, McLemore will stick with No.16 at least for the upcoming season.

“We have considered retiring Peja’s number,” said team president Chris Granger, “and he certainly deserves that honor. (But) at this time, that’s all I will say.”

I find it interesting that the Bee jumped to the conclusion a number change would be a precursor to retiring the jersey...

They go on to say "no confirmation" and "nothing is imminent" but continue with "very likely the plan."

Reason #7424 why I hate the stupid Bee. As far as Granger's comment is concerned, I view it more as a diplomatic response to an inane question.

 

[VF21]

Track the quote all the way back to the Bee, and it turns out this particular blog entry is from Ailene Voisin. AHA! She's obviously wanting to be able to watch Peja's ripping muscles one more time...

 

[John Galt]

The whole taking numbers away from players being able to wear them is dumb, retire the man's jersey let it hang up but why not allow anyone else to where it, that's just dumb.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"

Anigo Montoya

 

[Kingsfan23]

Peja was actually one of my two favorite Kings along with DC however I think the retiring of jerseys is for franchise players over a length of time

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Peja was actually one of my two favorite Kings along with DC however I think the retiring of jerseys is for franchise players over a length of time

I find myself, mostly, compelled by this argument.

Someone pointed out on a different message board that the Kings/Royals franchise has eleven retired numbers, counting the "Sixth Man." That's more than every other team in the entire NBA, except for the Celtics. For a franchise that has only won one championship in its history, that's alarming.

EDIT - Portland also, inexplicably, has eleven number retired (with #30, inexplicably, retired twice), so maybe it's a small-town thing. Still, though...

 

[VF21]

Another hint perhaps? NBA India just posted a photo of Peja. The text:

Want to try and beat an NBA player?

Participate in the adidas 3-Point National Contest TODAY at M J College, Hyderabad – 2 pm onward.

YOU stand a chance to go up against NBA Legend, Peja Stojakovic, one of the best shooters in recent NBA history, in Mumbai!

There appears to be a LOT of excitement in India for this event.

If Peja can help our new ownership blaze the trail into India, I'm all for it. And, if they truly want to raise his jersey into the rafters, I'm not going to throw a tizzy fit. It's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. And, as I did at the ceremonies for Vlade and Webb, I'll stand and cheer and remember one more time how great that time was. At least now I can hope that someday somehow those times will come again and we'll have another chance at the big show.

And before anybody gets too wrapped up, I'm not gonna argue or debate about this. It's not that big a deal to me. If they do it, no big. If they don't, no big.

 

[VF21]

I find myself, mostly, compelled by this argument.

Someone pointed out on a different message board that the Kings/Royals franchise has eleven retired numbers, counting the "Sixth Man." That's more than every other team in the entire NBA, except for the Celtics. For a franchise that has only won one championship in its history, that's alarming.

EDIT - Portland also, inexplicably, has eleven number retired (with #30, inexplicably, retired twice), so maybe it's a small-town thing. Still, though...

Unless I'm counting wrong, the Kings franchise has 10 retired numbers. wiki

 

[Padrino]

I find myself, mostly, compelled by this argument.

Someone pointed out on a different message board that the Kings/Royals franchise has eleven retired numbers, counting the "Sixth Man." That's more than every other team in the entire NBA, except for the Celtics. For a franchise that has only won one championship in its history, that's alarming.

EDIT - Portland also, inexplicably, has eleven number retired (with #30, inexplicably, retired twice), so maybe it's a small-town thing. Still, though...

i tend to believe that you reserve special honors for those who deserve the honor. it's a slippery slope when you start retiring the jerseys of players just because they were talented. it's like hearing everyone debate about whether or not tracy mcgrady deserves the hall. he was a seven-time all-star and two-time scoring champion who never made it to the finals and, in fact, barely sniffed the playoffs throughout much of his injury-plagued career. it's a no-brainer in my mind to keep a guy like that, as talented as he was, out of the hall...

what's the hall even for if you're just going to admit every multiple all-star who plays in the league? that's why "all-star" and "hall of hamer" are different distinctions when we compare talented players. you can make a hall of fame argument for a guy like allen iverson, because he was a major figure of his era in the way he helped tie professional basketball to hip hop culture. he had such a big impact on the nba and its fans that david stern eventually felt it necessary to institute a league-wide dress code in response. though he never won a championship, and though he was never considered a good teammate, the waves that allen iverson made on the game are still felt to this day in an nba that's getting more and more combo guard-driven...

the sixers will retire iverson's jersey. as they should. and he's got a good shot at the hall. but a guy like peja stojakovic, while talented, did not make those kinds of waves for the kings, the kind of waves that deserve such recognition. the golden era of sacramento kings basketball began on the backs of chris webber and vlade divac. those two were the catalysts for a great team, and it does honor to that team to elevate its two cornerstone pieces. webber was the insanely-gifted superstar. divac was the leader and ambassador. peja stojakovic, jason williams, mike bibby, doug christie, bobby jackson, etc. were all secondary talents. peja was certainly the best of that next tier, but, in my opinion, he falls just outside of jersey retirement status...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Unless I'm counting wrong, the Kings franchise has 10 retired numbers. wiki

May have been counting Stojakovic, as if it were a done deal. Even so, ten is a lot.

There are only four teams in the NBA with nine or more retired numbers (The lakers have several numbers from their Minnesota days hanging that are not, officially, retired. At least one of them actually has been re-used), and three of those teams (Kings/Royals, Trailblazers, Jazz) have two championships between them. So, it definitely seems to be a "small-town" thing.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

May have been counting Stojakovic, as if it were a done deal. Even so, ten is a lot.

There are only four teams in the NBA with nine or more retired numbers (The lakers have several numbers from their Minnesota days hanging that are not, officially, retired. At least one of them actually has been re-used), and three of those teams (Kings/Royals, Trailblazers, Jazz) have two championships between them. So, it definitely seems to be a "small-town" thing.

Well, I did this quick and dirty, but a linear regression on number of retired jerseys vs. millions of population gives a slope of +1.5, meaning that for every million people in an NBA city, the team will have about 1.5 more retired numbers. The data is real noisy, of course, but it looks more like a "large-town" thing than a "small-town" one.

 

[Livinthedream]

I loved that era of Kings basketball, but I'm not even convinced Webber's jersey should be retired. Instead of honoring theses players, it feels more like devaluing the franchise. Feels like we are basically saying we will never reach the level of Western Conference finals again, so let's just retire ALL the players numbers from that period. This is as good as it gets.

Save the jersey retirement for hall of famers.

I think it would be more appropriate to create a "Sacramento Kings hall of fame" and honor the Pejas of the franchise there. Save the jersey retirement for all time greats.

 

[ParniValjak]

Personally, I don't think Peja is quite there but then again he was an integral part of that team and a major cog despite what some people think.

If they retire the number, I will be happy for Peja and have a lot of patriotic pride but if they don't I won't lose much sleep either!

 

[Fresno King]

I think there should be a "Kings Ring of Honor" instead of having a bunch of jersey numbers retired. That way, guys like Peja, Bibby, Miller, Theus & Jackson can be immortalized forever in franchise history with their names up in the rafters. And, other players can wear the jerseys of our best players and use that as motivation to be just as good as they were. For example, I think McLemore would look good with #2 (Richmond).

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Save the jersey retirement for hall of famers.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I am compelled to think that jersey retirements should be reserved for:

• Hall of Fame players who played at least half of the prime of their career with that team.
• Best player(s) on a championship team.
• Players who defined an era for that franchise.
• Players whose reach/impact extended beyond the basketball court.

I would also consider, though not as a "hard and fast" rule, players who died while playing for the team, if they were particularly beloved (e.g., Malik Sealy, Drazen Petrovic).

One of the criticisms I read on the aforementioned "other forum" which I will take exception to is the suggestion that we disassociate ourselves from our history at our previous locations. It fails to take into account the unique history of the Kings/Royals franchise: we're the only original NBA franchise, and one of only four franchises in NBA history that has relocated more than twice. It's not particularly reasonable to ask us to disregard half of our franchise's history, especially when, unlike teams like the "Thunder," we have never tried to pretend like we sprung up out of the ether when we arrived in a new city. We've always embraced our past... Hell, if it weren't for the conflict with Major League Baseball, we'd probably still be the Royals.

If I were in control of the retired numbers for the franchise, I would do it thusly:

• (2) Mitch Richmond: Most important player of the pre-Adelman Sacramento era. Sacramento era leading scorer.
• (4) Chris Webber: Most important player of the post-Richmond Sacramento era. Sacramento era leader in rebounds and triple-doubles. Only player ranked Top 5 Sacramento era in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks.
• (11) Bob Davies: Hall of Fame. NBA Champion. Rochester era assist leader.
• (12) Maurice Stokes: Hall of Fame. Rookie of the Year. Critically injured playing for the Royals. Reach/impact extended beyond the court.
• (14) Oscar Robertson: Hall of Fame. Greatest player in the history of the franchise. Franchise leader in scoring and assists.
• (21) Vlade Divac: Only borderline case, in my opinion. "Heart" of the Adelman era. Reach/impact extended far beyond the court.
• (27) Jack Twyman: Hall of Fame. Top 5, Cincinnati era in points, rebounds and assists. Last Hall of Fame player to play his entire career with the Kings/Royals franchise. Reach/impact extended beyond the court.
• (44) Sam Lacey: Most important player of the Kansas City era. Franchise leader in games played, rebounds, steals and blocks. Kansas City era assist leader.

Additionally, I feel like some sort of recognition should be made for Arnie Risen. He's in the Hall of Fame, he is the Rochester era leading rebounder, and if the Finals MVP trophy existed in 1951, he would have gotten it (averaged 21.7/14.3/2.7 in the Finals, as a center). The only problem is, he wore the same number for the Royals as the Big O.

If #16 should be retired for anybody, it's Jerry Lucas.