[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

This team as constructed isn't going anywhere. They'll likely back their way into a play-in spot this season, but the way they are playing now I can't see them advancing. More than that, they flat out aren't fun to watch. This sort of "your turn, my turn" iso ball is not only not successful, it's ugly, even when they manage to win games.

I'd love to see them build around Monk, Keegan, Keon, and Domas, but right now they lack the assets to really do that.

Right now I'm largely checked out as a fan, which is really disappointing since the Beam Team season was maybe my favorite season ever as a Kings fan.

I agree with everything that you have said. The front office (i.e. Vivek) needs to swallow their (his) damn ego and commit to a full blown rebuild. Blow it all up and start building from the bottom up. This whole idea/approach of trying to slap on a permanent Band-Aid until that Band-Aid begins to peel off ain't doing the trick, nor is it ever gonna do the trick.

 

[funkykingston]

I agree with everything that you have said. The front office (i.e. Vivek) needs to swallow their (his) damn ego and commit to a full blown rebuild. Blow it all up and start building from the bottom up. This whole idea/approach of trying to slap on a permanent Band-Aid until that Band-Aid begins to peel off ain't doing the trick, nor is it ever gonna do the trick.

One issue is that the Kings still don't have a lot of assets to even start a rebuild. I think Sabonis could maybe net 3 FRPs or a decent player and maybe 2 FRPs. Malik probably gets you another FRP and some change. DeRozan would likely be a salary dump with maybe a very late first or more likely a SRP thrown in.

LaVine probably still has no trade value due to his age, injury history, and especially contract.

But let's say you can move Sabonis to the Nets for Cam Johnson and a couple first rounders and Malik gets you another. The Kings would have to be extremely lucky to keep their pick unless they just basically lose our the rest of the season, which isn't impossible.

Next year would be extremely rough. You let Lyles leave, hopefully re-sign LaRavia and roll out a starting five of:

Valanciunis
Murray
Johnson
LaVine
Ellis

and give big minutes to Carter and any other rookies the Kings are able to land via trades. But honestly, other than the fact that I love Sabonis and Monk (and Malik is especially fun to watch when he's rolling) how much worse would that team be to watch than what we've seen from the current roster over the last few games?

At least you'd have some renewed hope for the future.

 

[Srzly]

One issue is that the Kings still don't have a lot of assets to even start a rebuild. I think Sabonis could maybe net 3 FRPs or a decent player and maybe 2 FRPs. Malik probably gets you another FRP and some change. DeRozan would likely be a salary dump with maybe a very late first or more likely a SRP thrown in.

LaVine probably still has no trade value due to his age, injury history, and especially contract.

But let's say you can move Sabonis to the Nets for Cam Johnson and a couple first rounders and Malik gets you another. The Kings would have to be extremely lucky to keep their pick unless they just basically lose our the rest of the season, which isn't impossible.

Next year would be extremely rough. You let Lyles leave, hopefully re-sign LaRavia and roll out a starting five of:

Valanciunis
Murray
Johnson
LaVine
Ellis

and give big minutes to Carter and any other rookies the Kings are able to land via trades. But honestly, other than the fact that I love Sabonis and Monk (and Malik is especially fun to watch when he's rolling) how much worse would that team be to watch than what we've seen from the current roster over the last few games?

At least you'd have some renewed hope for the future.

Exactly what I’m thinking. The hope for the future is the big plus.

The current roster seems to be on a “win now” timeline but there isn’t any hope of really winning anything.

Plus our new style of play this season of mostly iso/hero ball is just not fun to watch.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1901646828455723010

https://twitter.com/statuses/1901050678543610215

https://twitter.com/statuses/1900960181355507973

 

[funkykingston]

I'm somewhat grateful to not have easy access to Sacramento sports radio these days, but Carmichael Dave is right here. The Sacramento Kings have been terrible for most of their existence, but they've never purposely tried a rebuild. And unless something dramatic happens soon, I think it's finally time.

Again, it's a shame, because Domas and Malik have been two of my all-time favorite Kings. But I don't see a path to improvement around them given the Kings cap situation and lack of trade assets.

It's also hard not to be jealous of a team like the Rockets who is just overflowing with young talent to where they are going to have to make some hard decisions soon. That's an infinitely better place to be than where the Kings are now.

 

[SacTownKid]

Gosh man, the Sac media is really trying the doom and gloom for clicks thing, lol and letting fans air it out is always funny. Take this poll when LaVine was rolling and it was trade all rebuild pieces for Durant, lol. Option 1 IMO. It sure doesn't seem that an immediate full rebuild is in order at this point, however Monte or whoever is calling shots better not go farther in while they can still technically get back out. Trading youth and picks for middling or short sighted results isn't something you do this summer. See what you can add need wise, hope your young players develop, hold onto your assets as far as picks, maybe make some moves to the starting lineup, bring Christie back, and see what a summer of consistency brings. If it doesn't work by the mid point of next season or if say Domas wants out, then deal with that then. If one of the Kings top players wants out but the Kings are still a competitive team then pulling off a similar win now/win later combo move like the Fox deal could be wise if the deals coming back aren't super long. Which LaVines is not.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm somewhat grateful to not have easy access to Sacramento sports radio these days, but Carmichael Dave is right here. The Sacramento Kings have been terrible for most of their existence, but they've never purposely tried a rebuild.

With all respect to CD (and yourself), I can't understand this idea of "we never did a rebuild". Four consecutive seasons of under .333, and starting out with drafting Tyreke and Cousins. That's a rebuild. It didn't work, because we screwed it up and grabbed Jimmer and TRob the next two seasons, but just because we screwed up a rebuild doesn't mean we didn't do a rebuild. That era was absolutely a rebuild.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

I'm somewhat grateful to not have easy access to Sacramento sports radio these days, but Carmichael Dave is right here. The Sacramento Kings have been terrible for most of their existence, but they've never purposely tried a rebuild. And unless something dramatic happens soon, I think it's finally time.

Again, it's a shame, because Domas and Malik have been two of my all-time favorite Kings. But I don't see a path to improvement around them given the Kings cap situation and lack of trade assets.

It's also hard not to be jealous of a team like the Rockets who is just overflowing with young talent to where they are going to have to make some hard decisions soon. That's an infinitely better place to be than where the Kings are now.

We've definitely done a rebuild (multiple times, actually). None of our attempts have been successful, though.

 

[Section 101]

Going to 100% disagree here.

2009 #4
2010 #5
2011 #7
2012 #5
2013 #7
2014 #8
2015 #6
2016 #8
2017 #5
2018 #2

The fact they missed on all but 2 (Cuz, Fox) where the 2 fell to them doesn't mean it wasn't a 10 year rebuild period.

 

[SacTownKid]

With all respect to CD (and yourself), I can't understand this idea of "we never did a rebuild". Four consecutive seasons of under .333, and starting out with drafting Tyreke and Cousins. That's a rebuild. It didn't work, because we screwed it up and grabbed Jimmer and TRob the next two seasons, but just because we screwed up a rebuild doesn't mean we didn't do a rebuild. That era was absolutely a rebuild.

People have this idea that in order to rebuild a nuke has to be dropped on the surrounding area which almost no team actually does. Yes, there were years where the Kings "got lucky" by moving up and in one instance not to be named really blew it. The real problem is how they blew it. Taking a player that clearly doesn't have the abilities you see or the skills and then watching it fail and then watching it fail as you work away from what they can bring is the issue. They did it with Cuz and Fox at the start too. Those two players talent level is the only reason they ended up not flaming out after playing out of position early. Putting a wall high enough for only two young players to scale is pretty bad for asset management believe it or not. lol. Even TRob, play that dude legit minutes and he's at least putting up numbers. This is what happens when a player that's only numbers doesn't get the chance. If he had elite defensive tools, playmaking skills, or something then he might have survived. He was a pure production PF in a position that was dying at the time so that sucked double for him and the Kings

 

[funkykingston]

With all respect to CD (and yourself), I can't understand this idea of "we never did a rebuild". Four consecutive seasons of under .333, and starting out with drafting Tyreke and Cousins. That's a rebuild. It didn't work, because we screwed it up and grabbed Jimmer and TRob the next two seasons, but just because we screwed up a rebuild doesn't mean we didn't do a rebuild. That era was absolutely a rebuild.

This is really a matter of semantics I guess. To ME, a rebuild means purposely stripping your team down to the studs for draft capital and swings at low cost young players, clearing your capsheet so you can facilitate other deals to bring in more draft capital, and fielding a team of young players who are destined to lose a bunch of games.

The Kings have only ever done the third aspect of that, and not by design. Just as a side effect of being a terrible team that made terrible decisions.

One of the conditions for most successful rebuilds is that you have to start with SOME talent so that you can trade it away to jump start the process. The pre-Tyreke & Cousins Kings were just terrible. And they didn't get much for either of those two players down the road either.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

This is really a matter of semantics I guess. To ME, a rebuild means purposely stripping your team down to the studs for draft capital and swings at low cost young players, clearing your capsheet so you can facilitate other deals to bring in more draft capital, and fielding a team of young players who are destined to lose a bunch of games.

The Kings have only ever done the third aspect of that, and not by design. Just as a side effect of being a terrible team that made terrible decisions.

One of the conditions for most successful rebuilds is that you have to start with SOME talent so that you can trade it away to jump start the process. The pre-Tyreke & Cousins Kings were just terrible. And they didn't get much for either of those two players down the road either.

Agreed! And we have decent young peices to start a rebuild nuke the vets play start and play Carter, Ellis, Keegan and Jones. Being a west team we’d be bottom five by default with chance at good picks.

Or

Trade for ZION but y’all kill me every time I bring it up haha

 

[SacTownKid]

Agreed! And we have decent young peices to start a rebuild nuke the vets play start and play Carter, Ellis, Keegan and Jones. Being a west team we’d be bottom five by default with chance at good picks.

Or

Trade for ZION but y’all kill me every time I bring it up haha

This is true, but this is also why the Kings need to sit on the fence this summer and let success be the guide. They've literally just blown up the majority of their team, got all star talent in return, and didn't destroy their own future in the process. There simply isn't enough intel on this team yet and they certainly can't just be looking at pure talent at this point. This isn't 2k. Things do need to fit. If a Zion is the answer by the mid point next season then if the Kings actually do what they should be doing they'll have the ability to pull it off. That means they developed their talent, they kept a stockpile of picks, and they did end up being in the mix after all. The question heading into the offseason is whether or not Monk, Domas, and DDR are in the long term picture whether individually or as a combination by their own choice or the Kings. They are the obvious watch out for being checked out and/or fits for you needs candidates.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

This is true, but this is also why the Kings need to sit on the fence this summer and let success be the guide. They've literally just blown up the majority of their team, got all star talent in return, and didn't destroy their own future in the process. There simply isn't enough intel on this team yet and they certainly can't just be looking at pure talent at this point. This isn't 2k. Things do need to fit. If a Zion is the answer by the mid point next season then if the Kings actually do what they should be doing they'll have the ability to pull it off. That means they developed their talent, they kept a stockpile of picks, and they did end up being in the mix after all. The question heading into the offseason is whether or not Monk, Domas, and DDR are in the long term picture whether individually or as a combination by their own choice or the Kings. They are the obvious watch out for being checked out and/or fits for you needs candidates.

A move has to be made this summer we can’t go into next season with the same starting five unless we’re turning things around and make the playoffs. Even then Derozan is another year older next year and shouldn’t start and I don’t think monk is a starting PG for a team trying to make a deep playoff run.

 

[funkykingston]

Here's an interesting thought. What if Cooper Flagg decides to actually return to Duke for his sophomore season? The Kings will very likely finally convey their first round pick to the Hawks at number 14 or so, putting them into a solid position to go into a full scale rebuild and tank season for an absolutely loaded 2026 draft class.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Here's an interesting thought. What if Cooper Flagg decides to actually return to Duke for his sophomore season? The Kings will very likely finally convey their first round pick to the Hawks at number 14 or so, putting them into a solid position to go into a full scale rebuild and tank season for an absolutely loaded 2026 draft class.

Right now I would say that we have a better chance of getting Flagg by hitting the lottery from the #14 spot this year than we would of getting him with the guaranteed #1 overall pick next year.

 

[funkykingston]

Right now I would say that we have a better chance of getting Flagg by hitting the lottery from the #14 spot this year than we would of getting him with the guaranteed #1 overall pick next year.

There is zero reason for Cooper to return to Duke. It'd be a gamble against getting injured, having a regression, showing holes in his game etc.

And yet when the Dukies were chanting "one more year!" Flagg game them the "run it back gesture". I certainly wouldn't do it, but I think the odds of him actually returning are higher than many people believe.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

There is zero reason for Cooper to return to Duke. It'd be a gamble against getting injured, having a regression, showing holes in his game etc.

And yet when the Dukies were chanting "one more year!" Flagg game them the "run it back gesture". I certainly wouldn't do it, but I think the odds of him actually returning are higher than many people believe.

Just going by memory, I'm not sure there has ever been a consensus #1 to return to school since underclassmen were common in the draft. Maybe Duncan after his junior year would have gone #1? Blake Griffin returned for his sophomore season, but he wasn't going #1, probably top 10 though. Harrison Barnes was thought to be a #1 overall coming out of high school but after his freshman year he was maybe top 10. Marcus Smart was top-10 in that crappy Bennett/McLemore draft.

Off the top of my head I can't think of another obvious top-10 guy in the last couple of decades who returned to school. And definitely not the consensus #1 overall. Kid can work the crowd however he wants, I don't see it happening.

 

[funkykingston]

Just going by memory, I'm not sure there has ever been a consensus #1 to return to school since underclassmen were common in the draft. Maybe Duncan after his junior year would have gone #1? Blake Griffin returned for his sophomore season, but he wasn't going #1, probably top 10 though. Harrison Barnes was thought to be a #1 overall coming out of high school but after his freshman year he was maybe top 10. Marcus Smart was top-10 in that crappy Bennett/McLemore draft.

Off the top of my head I can't think of another obvious top-10 guy in the last couple of decades who returned to school. And definitely not the consensus #1 overall. Kid can work the crowd however he wants, I don't see it happening.

I don't either. I'd actually be shocked if it happened. Lots of kids get sentimental around tournament time and then make a business decision when the draft nears. Cooper is a different dude, but it's still very, very unlikely.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

The way I count it, we've had multiple rebuilds in the Vivek era. I don't get how we have the perception that we're rebuild averse. I think maybe he held on to Cousins for a year or two too long (maybe in hindsight it would have been ideal to trade him in 2014 when the team changed hands, and expectations were rock bottom)

The Cousins trade of 2016 was the beginning of a rebuild, which lasted until the 2018 "Buddy System" Kings. (The tension between the Joerger and the front office being that the FO wanted another year of tanking, and Joerger didn't want the losses on his record, especially without a contract extension.) The team attempted to build on that year's success, but the talent didn't pan out. One more season, and that team culminated, which led to Vlade being fired and the next rebuild begins.

Monte starts in '21 with the freedom to rebuild the team, and in 2 years later in '23, the Beam team happens.

Two rebuilds in 10 years seems like a reasonable pace to me. Seems like we're due now

 

[The_Jamal]

There is zero reason for Cooper to return to Duke. It'd be a gamble against getting injured, having a regression, showing holes in his game etc.

And yet when the Dukies were chanting "one more year!" Flagg game them the "run it back gesture". I certainly wouldn't do it, but I think the odds of him actually returning are higher than many people believe.

So one big thing with this "newest" generation is they're all making a ridiculous amount of NIL money. Quick google search shows he's worth 4.8 mil in NIL this year.

Now that's not #1 overall pick money, but it equalizes one of the biggest equations for these surefire one-done prospects. They're not risking nearly as much of their future as they would have in the past. And instead of shouldering the responsibility of fixing the Wizards or the Hornets at 18 years old, he'd get to go back to school, have fun, be the man on campus, maybe make some College hoops history if Duke makes noise this year and go make another 5-7 mil in NIL money. Seems like a pretty sweet life for a teenager.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Here's an interesting thought. What if Cooper Flagg decides to actually return to Duke for his sophomore season? The Kings will very likely finally convey their first round pick to the Hawks at number 14 or so, putting them into a solid position to go into a full scale rebuild and tank season for an absolutely loaded 2026 draft class.

He ain’t going back that’s losing a year of FA twice for no reason

 

[notoriousBEN3]

I don’t like the idea of a full rebuild, if not only for completely selfish reasons.

After watching the Kings be a bottom dweller for so many years, it’s admittedly more fun to watch them be at least somewhat competitive, even if they aren’t structured to contend. I for one would like to watch a semi-decent team for at least a little while longer.

I also have major concerns that our front office can be trusted with a full rebuild. As we saw from all of the years of being terrible, one or two draft whiffs and you’re a perpetual lottery team. Do we have faith that our front office is solid enough to start from scratch and make the correct decisions?

We also have a super talented roster right now, there’s just some fit issues. I think as we’ve seen over the last handful of games, when the Kings have a good defensive night, they can be quite good.

Perhaps a trade of Monk and/or Derozan for some better fitting pieces could make a legit difference. I love both guys and they’re both amazing talents, but the redundancy on offense and lack of defense is clearly a problem. Plus they both take away shots from Zach, who I believe should be much more of a focal point on offense.

We shall see what happens this off season, but I still have my fingers crossed for the current core.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Ill take this year's so called purgatory kings any day over the last 20 years I've had to live through. I dont know if the people on the is board are young kids or are in early stages of dementia but the fact kings basketball is still interesting 17 games left in the season is a testament to how far we have come. Anyone who want wants to go back to a rebuild with the Sacramento KANGz isn't thinking clearly.

Im going to sit back and enjoy this season and all it's drama glory. We may not win a championship, but dammit I'm not getting laughed at at the local grocery store for wearing a kings jersey

 

[funkykingston]

He ain’t going back that’s losing a year of FA twice for no reason

Probably not, but Flagg is still the second youngest prospect in this year's draft (Noa Essenge has him beat by 3 days) so he could go back to school and still be 19 for next year's draft. Don't forget that Flagg reclassified or he'd still be a HS senior this year.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Ill take this year's so called purgatory kings any day over the last 20 years I've had to live through. I dont know if the people on the is board are young kids or are in early stages of dementia but the fact kings basketball is still interesting 17 games left in the season is a testament to how far we have come. Anyone who want wants to go back to a rebuild with the Sacramento KANGz isn't thinking clearly.

Im going to sit back and enjoy this season and all it's drama glory. We may not win a championship, but dammit I'm not getting laughed at at the local grocery store for wearing a kings jersey

Here here!

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I don’t like the idea of a full rebuild, if not only for completely selfish reasons.
...

We also have a super talented roster right now, there’s just some fit issues. I think as we’ve seen over the last handful of games, when the Kings have a good defensive night, they can be quite good.

Perhaps a trade of Monk and/or Derozan for some better fitting pieces could make a legit difference. I love both guys and they’re both amazing talents, but the redundancy on offense and lack of defense is clearly a problem. Plus they both take away shots from Zach, who I believe should be much more of a focal point on offense.

We shall see what happens this off season, but I still have my fingers crossed for the current core.

Bolded.

You don't chuck away a roster as talented as this one after a four game losing streak. Everyone saying so has tik tok brain.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

I don’t like the idea of a full rebuild, if not only for completely selfish reasons.

After watching the Kings be a bottom dweller for so many years, it’s admittedly more fun to watch them be at least somewhat competitive, even if they aren’t structured to contend. I for one would like to watch a semi-decent team for at least a little while longer.

I also have major concerns that our front office can be trusted with a full rebuild. As we saw from all of the years of being terrible, one or two draft whiffs and you’re a perpetual lottery team. Do we have faith that our front office is solid enough to start from scratch and make the correct decisions?

We also have a super talented roster right now, there’s just some fit issues. I think as we’ve seen over the last handful of games, when the Kings have a good defensive night, they can be quite good.

Perhaps a trade of Monk and/or Derozan for some better fitting pieces could make a legit difference. I love both guys and they’re both amazing talents, but the redundancy on offense and lack of defense is clearly a problem. Plus they both take away shots from Zach, who I believe should be much more of a focal point on offense.

We shall see what happens this off season, but I still have my fingers crossed for the current core.

Ill take this year's so called purgatory kings any day over the last 20 years I've had to live through. I dont know if the people on the is board are young kids or are in early stages of dementia but the fact kings basketball is still interesting 17 games left in the season is a testament to how far we have come. Anyone who want wants to go back to a rebuild with the Sacramento KANGz isn't thinking clearly.

Im going to sit back and enjoy this season and all it's drama glory. We may not win a championship, but dammit I'm not getting laughed at at the local grocery store for wearing a kings jersey

Here here!

Bolded.

You don't chuck away a roster as talented as this one after a four game losing streak. Everyone saying so has tik tok brain.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I get all of your individual and collective points, but...
I fear that if we don't commit to a full blown rebuild now, or within the next handful of years, we risk being no better than a play-in team, just based on the way the current roster has been constructed. In order for us to take that next step and be a franchise that's better than a play-in team, I think a full blown rebuild will be needed, so we can stockpile on young talent that we can then build with, and build around. Not committing to a full blown rebuild will see us risk losing out on the Tim Duncans of any and all future draft classes. And I'd much rather we take our chances with a generational draft pick (whenever the next one comes along) than with a middle of the pack roster that's no better than a play-in tournament/1st round exit.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I get all of your individual and collective points, but...
I fear that if we don't commit to a full blown rebuild now, or within the next handful of years, we risk being no better than a play-in team, just based on the way the current roster has been constructed. In order for us to take that next step and be a franchise that's better than a play-in team, I think a full blown rebuild will be needed, so we can stockpile on young talent that we can then build with, and build around. Not committing to a full blown rebuild will see us risk losing out on the Tim Duncans of any and all future draft classes. And I'd much rather we take our chances with a generational draft pick (whenever the next one comes along) than with a middle of the pack roster that's no better than a play-in tournament/1st round exit.

You act like getting a generational draft pick is just a decision we can make. You are severely discounting the luck that goes into getting one. Not at all something you can control for. You seem to be advocating for tanking for several years until we get a generational talent. We could just as easily tank for several years and not get one.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

You act like getting a generational draft pick is just a decision we can make. You are severely discounting the luck that goes into getting one. Not at all something you can control for. You seem to be advocating for tanking for several years until we get a generational talent. We could just as easily tank for several years and not get one.

I see your point, and what I actually meant was...That I'd much rather we take our chances at landing the #1 pick in order to get a generational draft pick should one be available than continuously being a middle of the pack roster with the upside of nothing more than a play-in team/1st round exit.
And, no, I am not advocating tanking until a generational pick enters the league. If we are able to stockpile on some high draft picks that yield us a deep playoff run, and we don't end up positioning ourselves to draft that generational draft pick, then that's fine. But positioning ourselves to draft high and rebuild the roster from the ground up is a helluva lot better, in my honest opinion, than trying to navigate a roster that's most likely going to be a play-in team at best, or a 1st round exit against either the #7 seed or the #8 seed.